What do you mean by that?Not sure, but it is Germany. So I wouldn't be surprised if it were.
What do you mean by that?Not sure, but it is Germany. So I wouldn't be surprised if it were.
I'm not sure - I'm not in the Netherlands now. From the newspaper I read, it seems Dutch people were a little bemused by the situation, and didn't really understand why the Argentinians were so riled up. They also disliked the inconsistencies of the referee, and seemed to blame the Argentinians for the match's nastiness more than the Dutch (at least before the penalty shoot-out).Seems more this escalation was geared towards the manager as Messi's Riquelme homage with Riquelme's pose shows? How was it all received in Dutch homes? Bemused or cursing the TV?
What I said.What do you mean by that?
But do you mean by "it is Germany", what makes you write that?What I said.
I really don't think that needs to be explained.But do you mean by "it is Germany", what makes you write that?
Why? I'm personally a bit perplexed but maybe it's only @Cheimoon and myself.I really don't think that needs to be explained.
Yeah, me too. I'm wondering what's special about Germany in this regard that makes the issue in question so unsurprising.Why? I'm personally a bit perplexed but maybe it's only @Cheimoon and myself.
I won't spoon feed you and it'll take too long to explain it all in detail. So hows about you two do a little bit of research and draw your own conclusions.Why? I'm personally a bit perplexed but maybe it's only @Cheimoon and myself.
So we went from it doesn't need explaining to it's too long to explain and do your own research?I won't spon feed you and it'll take too long to explain it all in detail. So hows about you two do a little bit of research and draw your own conclusions.
What are you so afraid of? It's a simple question, surely there's a fairly simple response - if only a couple of keywords/phrases that indicate what you mean. Sure, I can look things up myself, but as you will have gotten by now, I don't see why you'd say this (and yes, I am familiar with Germany politics etc.), so I wouldn't be able to find your opinion if it's me doing the searching.I won't spoon feed you and it'll take too long to explain it all in detail. So hows about you two do a little bit of research and draw your own conclusions.
Not sure Germans care about England. I thought the big rivalry for them was the Dutch, though I could be wrong.England have to be way up there for a bunch of nations.
Argentina, Scotland and Ireland for sure?
Do the Welsh care as much? Maybe the Australians?
Maybe the Germans (but I read that their rivalry is against the French and it's mostly England fans that care about that rivalry)?
It's probably the most one sided rivalry in international football but yeah I'm definitely rooting for anyone but Argentina in these semifinals. Weird considering the amount of Argentinian players that play and excel in Mexico, seems like every WC we have an Argentinian in the squad.The amount of insults between Mexicans and Argentinians on twitter before the match was on another level Why Madrid? Messi/Barça?
The rivalry against Argentina, IMO, has turned despicable and full of hate speech. A lot of racism, classism and xenophobia is fueled in social media, hence, I don't like reading them... These type of lashes can also be extended sometimes to other South American countries like Brazil or Uruguay.The amount of insults between Mexicans and Argentinians on twitter before the match was on another level Why Madrid? Messi/Barça?
Twitter is worst, the insults are terrible from both sides.As Mexican, our biggest rivalry is with the USA... Lesser with Central American teams like Costa Rica or Honduras (although IMO, these have been exploited by the media).
The rivalry against Argentina, IMO, has turned despicable and full of hate speech. A lot of racism, classism and xenophobia is fueled in social media, hence, I don't like reading them... These type of lashes can also be extended sometimes to other South American countries like Brazil or Uruguay.
But if you want some background, it may have started after the 1993 Copa America final Mexico lost v the Argies. Afterwards, Mexico has always struggled against Argentina and the only official victory in tournaments happened in the Group Stage of the 2004 Copa America with a free kick scored by Ramón Morales and a 1-0 victory.
Afterwards:
2005 Confederation Cup Semifinals - Argentina wins in penalties.
2006 World Cup Round of 16 - Argentina wins 2-1 after extra time with that infamous Maxi Rodriguez goal.
2010 World Cup Round of 16 - Argentina wins 3-1 with the Gonzalo Higuain goal in clear offside.
2022 World Cup Group Stage - Argentina wins 2-0.
Also, and this is a very personal opinion, but one of the huge reasons many Mexicans hate Argentinians is due to the racism/classism existing in Mexican society. Most Argentinians are white or first generations europeans descendants and that triggers many people believing they are arrogant (which indeed, some of them are) or higher status.
If you don't believe me, just read a typical insult in Facebook.
All of them are CR or Madrid fans.To be fair my experience of twitter is every spanish speaking country has beef with argentina
i can tel you, he’s implying that German people are racist.But do you mean by "it is Germany", what makes you write that?
Must be a joke post surely?You just need to look at the reaction to the loss at the weekend. How it was such a "missed opportunity" because it's Morocco in the semi final.
Why would it be?Must be a joke post surely?
It's more of a mixture from my experience across Scotland. Many of the most 'vocal' will fit that profile, I think the majority see themselves as both Scottish and British, while many see themselves as more Scottish than British - but tend to be less hung up on it as a badge of honour. It doesn't surprise me that Rangers fans are the biggest club contributors to members of the Tartan Army.To be fair, though mate. Rangers fans, the vast majority, will argue with you til they are blue in the face that they are British and not Scottish.
I tried with him mate, don't bother.Must be a joke post surely?
.Serbia for obvious reasons.
A weird one recently I feel like is Finland, we always get drawn in the same qualifier groups it feels like, and it's always between the 2 for the 2nd qualifying spot, and Pukki turns into the best striker in the world when he plays us. Before them for a while was probably Greece for a similar reason.
They've done well to get there, but if we did beat France and then Morocco the narrative would change again like it did in the last world cup. Southgate gets an easy draw again. How lucky is he to get Morocco in a semi final.Why would it be?
They've conceded one goal all tournament and it was an own goal. They've beaten Belgium, Spain and Portugal and drew with Croatia yet the English media and clearly some fans felt that a win v France all but guaranteed them a place in the final.
Genuinely don't see how facing a team with as formidable a record as that or in the form they're on is somehow any more of a great opportunity than had it been Portugal. It's just complete arrogance because their name is 'Morocco'.
Genuinely don't see how facing a team w
Ha, yeah. The Canadian part would be USA even though it's kind of a forced/fake rivalry IMO. In terms of football, USA is much more with Mexico while Canada has been irrelevant so I feel like everyone was just kind of happy for Canada to do well recently..
I just spent a minute pondering why Canadians would hate Serbia for 'obvious reasons'.
Then read your Username.
I think we're similar in that we are both Dutch Canadians. I find it pretty surprising that you didn't know about a Dutch/Argentina rivalry. It stems from the 78 world cup, which had a lot of controversial elements, due to the poltiical situation in Argentina, who was host. Lots of underhanded things in the build up, a lot of things done to throw off the Dutch, their team bus took them on a tour of the city before the game, as an example. And then when it came to the game, typical argentines, they played dirty as hell. I think that's the basis of it, but they have met each other on a somewhat regular basis over the years, but this past game was probably the highest the tension has reached in a while, if not since 78.I've been quite surprised to find out, also from my boss yesterday, that the Netherlands apparently have a rivalry with Argentina. I've never been aware of that. Certainly the 1978 final is regretted, but I've never noticed that it led to lingering feelings against Argentina in the Netherlands. Recent games (1998 quarter finals, 2014 semis) have also just been games. I think it's just the heat of the moment during the match and the Argentinians taking exception at what are really just some typical Van Gaal quotes.
Even the Dutch rivalry with Germany is now purely performative; there's no real rivalry left. Maybe some very old people still really feel that way, but in general - nah. Belgium used to be another rival and those matches used to be very highly contested, but I think that was gone already by the 90s, probably even earlier.
If you ask me, Dutch international football is now mostly just a carnival for the fans.
Thank you for the explanation. The truth is that seeing the tone of many Mexicans on twitter it would seem that they were expecting a disputed match.As Mexican, our biggest rivalry is with the USA... Lesser with Central American teams like Costa Rica or Honduras (although IMO, these have been exploited by the media).
The rivalry against Argentina, IMO, has turned despicable and full of hate speech. A lot of racism, classism and xenophobia is fueled in social media, hence, I don't like reading them... These type of lashes can also be extended sometimes to other South American countries like Brazil or Uruguay.
But if you want some background, it may have started after the 1993 Copa America final Mexico lost v the Argies. Afterwards, Mexico has always struggled against Argentina and the only official victory in tournaments happened in the Group Stage of the 2004 Copa America with a free kick scored by Ramón Morales and a 1-0 victory.
Afterwards:
2005 Confederation Cup Semifinals - Argentina wins in penalties.
2006 World Cup Round of 16 - Argentina wins 2-1 after extra time with that infamous Maxi Rodriguez goal.
2007 Copa America Semifinals - Argentina trashes Mexico with a beautiful goal from Messi.
2010 World Cup Round of 16 - Argentina wins 3-1 with the Gonzalo Higuain goal in clear offside.
2022 World Cup Group Stage - Argentina wins 2-0.
Also, and this is a very personal opinion, but one of the huge reasons many Mexicans hate Argentinians is due to the racism/classism existing in Mexican society. Most Argentinians are white or first generations europeans descendants and that triggers many people believing they are arrogant (which indeed, some of them are) or higher status.
If you don't believe me, just read a typical insult in Facebook.
The banter in social media/forums comes from long before Messi-Cristiano. I'm not saying it's exclusive to Argentina because Peruvians, Bolivians or Colombians also have their share.All of them are CR or Madrid fans.
I knew about the 1978 final (hard to miss! ), I just don't think it still plays on people's minds. If anything, people might blame it on the Argentinian regime at the time, not on Argentina as a whole, and I don't think there is a current rivalry. (Although this last game might start one. )I think we're similar in that we are both Dutch Canadians. I find it pretty surprising that you didn't know about a Dutch/Argentina rivalry. It stems from the 78 world cup, which had a lot of controversial elements, due to the poltiical situation in Argentina, who was host. Lots of underhanded things in the build up, a lot of things done to throw off the Dutch, their team bus took them on a tour of the city before the game, as an example. And then when it came to the game, typical argentines, they played dirty as hell. I think that's the basis of it, but they have met each other on a somewhat regular basis over the years, but this past game was probably the highest the tension has reached in a while, if not since 78.
I didn't say that it applies to the Netherlands more than to other countries. I also wasn't commenting on the way the Dutch team approaches its games, or how serious international football is taken (very, I know). I was just saying (or just meant to say, anyway) that I feel like the way people in the Netherlands experience Dutch national games comes across more as a kind of festival than as something that might lead to strong rivalries or deep-seated anger.As for your last comment, why would that apply to the Netherlands more than any other national team? We had a good(not great) team this time, with a great team spirit and winning mentality, qualified well and played effectively in the tournament. We missed 2018, but were in the semi-finals in 2014 and finals in 2010. I think we are one of the most serious teams in world football, really don't get your comment.
Canada has no rivalry because it isn't a football nation, you need passionate fans to drive that rivalry, and they don't really have a ton of fans, let alone passionate ones. And the people who cheer for Canadian football are the ones that love the Leafs when the win one game and hate them when they lose the next game, these aren't invested people.Ha, yeah. The Canadian part would be USA even though it's kind of a forced/fake rivalry IMO. In terms of football, USA is much more with Mexico while Canada has been irrelevant so I feel like everyone was just kind of happy for Canada to do well recently.
I understand your last point now, the Dutch are almost like the Brazilians, this tournament excluded. They usually have one of larger, more vocal, more visual fan bases, so they do definitely give that impression. I can't speak for how your average Dutch person is affected by a loss, would be curious to have been there this week, and see if the loss lingers, or if everyone just immediately moves on with life.I knew about the 1978 final (hard to miss! ), I just don't think it still plays on people's minds. If anything, people might blame it on the Argentinian regime at the time, not on Argentina as a whole, and I don't think there is a current rivalry. (Although this last game might start one. )
I didn't say that it applies to the Netherlands more than to other countries. I also wasn't commenting on the way the Dutch team approaches its games, or how serious international football is taken (very, I know). I was just saying (or just meant to say, anyway) that I feel like the way people in the Netherlands experience Dutch national games comes across more as a kind of festival than as something that might lead to strong rivalries or deep-seated anger.
I am really confused as to why you've told me I'm wrong, and then quoted Baddiel confirming that I'm right in about 5 different ways across two sentences. It's a hope against hope, dare to believe it'll all work out even though you know it won't, laughing at yourself for having the hope even while unable to stop it surging, mickey take.It isn't. I don't know why this continues to be argued in bad faith.
Here's what Baddiel has to say about it:
We know rationally that we tend to disappoint but somehow we keep on hoping that things might be different this time. And that element of the song, of defiance, of hope in the face of history, picks up energy if history suddenly looks like it might turn round. Even though the song comes from a place of vulnerability, its central refrain can be chanted at the right moment – now, for example – when fans want to throw caution to the wind.
Sure, there's an element of self-deprecating humour within the song as touched on above but there's not a shot that the drunkards that shout it from the rooftops every international tournament are "taking the piss out of themselves".
If that's what you take from it then cool.I am really confused as to why you've told me I'm wrong, and then quoted Baddiel confirming that I'm right in about 5 different ways across two sentences. It's a hope against hope, dare to believe it'll all work out even though you know it won't, laughing at yourself for having the hope even while unable to stop it surging, mickey take.
So you honestly read those two sentences, and they scream out to you - yep, Baddiel is saying that the song means England are better than everyone else?If that's what you take from it then cool.
Quite bizarre that England would want Skinner and Baddiel to perform it at Wembley before the biggest game in England's history since 1966 given it's essentially about how shite you are, how hopeless you are and how ultimately your heart will be broken.
Got to admire that level of shithousery from whoever (presumably at the FA) tried to get them to play it live before the Euros final.