Irish Politics

[Kinsella]

One solution would be to buy in NI and get the train to Dublin.

 

[sullydnl]

Reading the last page gave me the grim sense that even if the people in charge started making the right decisions now it would still be years before we see the effects and I have no real faith that they will start making the right decisions now. It's like the football forum except for houses.

 

[caid]

Decentralization of some kind is key.

Nah its not. Theres loads of empty property in dublin.
Decentralising to Cork and Galway and a couple of other cities would be in our interest but you cant buy property there either so its not a solution to the housing crisis.

 

[RedC]

I think they should ease the wage multiplier on mortgage amounts for first time buyers/single home owners. There are plenty of people that can afford a much bigger mortgage than their wages allow.

 

[moses]

I think they should ease the wage multiplier on mortgage amounts for first time buyers/single home owners. There are plenty of people that can afford a much bigger mortgage than their wages allow.

Unless you increase supply that will just drive up prices?

 

[Massive Spanner]

Don't know about other roles but starting salary for entry level software engineers in Google in US is around 150-200K$ (includes yearly stock and bonus too). In India it is about 40-50K $. Per this site https://www.levels.fyi/company/Google/salaries/Software-Engineer/ for Ireland it is around 110-120K $. Given engineers at higher level get much more, average salary for at least engineers in Google Ireland would easily be 150,000 euros if not more.

Not a hope. That'd be a Senior or Staff (level 3 or 4) engineer salary.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Unless you increase supply that will just drive up prices?

The only solution.

 

[caid]

The only solution.

We could make much better use of the supply that exists

 

[moses]

We could make much better use of the supply that exists

Without a doubt. How would you tackle it?

 

[McGrathsipan]

Newstalk are a bunch of twats.

Doesn't even need saying but if there was enough housing supply then people wouldn't need their parents.

I know so many people in their 30's now either stuck at home or renting for extortionate prices, people with really good jobs, because it's impossible to get a house.

My mate is stuck in the rent trap - he lives two doors down from me and his rent is 1500 a month.
My Mortgage is 3/4s of that. I am just lucky I had a deposit when the market was in shreds 10 years ago.

He cant afford a deposit as his rent is so high - so he is stuck in Ground hog day. I feel sorry for him

Then I think of my two boys - probably 15/20 years until they are looking for a house but I think education has a part to play . I was given sound advice in my early 20s to save as much as I could for a house rather than do what the majority of young people do in spending every penny they earn. Hard as it was at the time to miss out on alot the advice was sound.

I really fear for youngsters these days

 

[RedC]

Unless you increase supply that will just drive up prices?

I mean, that is seemingly the excuse for anything put forward. That would at least allow some people to be able to get out of the rent cycle.

 

[GDaly95]

I'm a 27-year old accountant living in Wicklow and my girlfriend, 26, is a primary school teacher in Dublin.

We're trying to save for a gaff but the market is so crazy and it feels so unattainable that really committing to making the savings sometimes feels in vain.

She has a permanent teaching job in Lucan and I work in D2 so we're pretty much hitched to Dublin as well.

Feels like life is on pause. I'd love to be starting a family.

 

[moses]

I mean, that is seemingly the excuse for anything put forward. That would at least allow some people to be able to get out of the rent cycle.

But if the supply stays the same and there is more credit available the prices shoot up?

We have a supply issue, more credit exacerbates that. It's not like there are houses with no buyers.

 

[Ramshock]

One solution would be to buy in NI and get the train to Dublin.

would be easier after unification

 

[Massive Spanner]

We could make much better use of the supply that exists

You mean all the vacant properties?

That's a given.

Aren't a feck tonne of the ones in Dublin owned by vulture funds now though and intentionally left vacant to keep rent sky high?

 

[Ramshock]

A nation whose people were known for building other nations and we cant get a government that will build fecking houses on our own island

 

[RedC]

But if the supply stays the same and there is more credit available the prices shoot up?

We have a supply issue, more credit exacerbates that. It's not like there are houses with no buyers.

Is there really a huge overall supply issue, or is there a supply issue for a specific type of home(i.e. cheap ones)? Aren't thousands of apartments and houses being sold to vulture funds etc. because they don't sell/don't appear to be guaranteed to sell? I think part of the issue is the reluctance of some to live in apartments in and around the city centre too maybe.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Is there really a huge overall supply issue, or is there a supply issue for a specific type of home(i.e. cheap ones)? Aren't thousands of apartments and houses being sold to vulture funds etc. because they don't sell/don't appear to be guaranteed to sell? I think part of the issue is the reluctance of some to live in apartments in and around the city centre too maybe.

Apartment prices are rising more than house prices so I don't think that's the case at the moment at least. I highly doubt there's many people out there who would turn down the opportunity to purchase an apartment with a 1k mortgage vs renting a shittier apartment in 2k rent, somehow.

But there is definitely a stigma here around having to own your "forever home" that's meant apartments have been neglected in favour of houses over the number of decades. Massive housing estates going up around Dublin taking up tonnes of space rather than building big apartment blocks. We also for some weird reason have an obsession with one and two bed apartments rather than big apartments that could actually sustain a family long term like most other global cities have. And then there's the council's daft logic around not allowing high rise in the city center, and all the rules around apartments that have actually made them more expensive to build than houses. If we removed those barriers and started building 20+ story apartment blocks in the middle of Dublin that all the techies on big money could buy and rent then we'd go a very long way to solving these problems.

 

[Relfy]

Ugh the housing situation there is actually depressing. I'm currently trying to move back to Ireland at the moment, and perhaps questioning why, and while I'd love to buy a house I'll need to be in a job for a bit to qualify for a mortgage. So renting it is, and it's an absolute nightmare trying to get a place especially if you're doing it from abroad. The fecking rice of rent too for anywhere decent for two people, I'm concerned that all the savings we made in France will be gone. I could probably buy here in France tomorrow (minus all the french bureaucracy) but I'm minimum a year away in Ireland and that's going to be with a year at renting for stuff nowhere near worth the money. Sickening.

Me and the Mrs were in a slightly different situation a few years back, moving from Oman to UK with similar plans of renting then buying, so although different markets between UK and Ireland, be warned that if you plan to rent and start furnishing somewhere back home it costs a fortune! We totally underestimated the costs, so I would stress that you need to be 100% sure of your budgets and cost estimates.

We are now in fact looking at Ireland as an option to buy in - we don't want to settle in UK long term. We might have to try and route that move via another stint in the Middle East to boost the savings pot.

The one thing that looks good for Ireland, is that the costs of some 3-4 bed houses in Kildare, for example, are lower than the costs for 1-2 bed flats where we are currently living. The Mrs' best mate lives in Portlaoise and drives into Dublin for work 5 days a week, and says that its not too bad, but I don't know if she's saying that because she wants her best mate home or not - I'm sure someone here knows the truth!

 

[RedC]

Apartment prices are rising more than house prices so I don't think that's the case at the moment at least. I highly doubt there's many people out there who would turn down the opportunity to purchase an apartment with a 1k mortgage vs renting a shittier apartment in 2k rent, somehow.

But one of the issues is that said people can't afford the apt with the 1k mortgage according to the wage multiplier rules currently in place?

 

[Charlie Foley]

A quick Google says no.

Of course that’s what Google would have you believe

 

[Charlie Foley]

An hour outside of the city (on public transport) is Wicklow, Leixlip, Maynooth, Louth etc. which are all actually not far off Dublin prices now for anything decent and are rising faster than Dublin itself at the moment.

I personally would happily move back west away from Dublin if my work situation allowed it. It's not a bad city but it's not worth the sort of crazy prices of houses here. Would much prefer a lovely big country Sligo house and garden for half the price. Hopefully if I do go almost fully remote in the next few years and can convince the missus there's more to life outside of the m50 we will.

A friend of mine is a doctor down in Kilkenny and he said he couldn’t believe the cost of things down there.

Good luck with the potential move. Used to have a friend who lived in Strandhill. Spectacular beach. I have always liked Galway and have a lot of family in Killarney-I think I’d look to either of those if I moved home and could work remote . My American fiancée much prefers the west coast, though that’s in part more of what her view of Ireland was before she came.

 

[Massive Spanner]

But one of the issues is that said people can't afford the apt with the 1k mortgage according to the wage multiplier rules currently in place?

I'm unsure as to what your point is. You said people don't want apartments originally and I said I don't think that's true. Them also being unaffordable is a whole different issue.

 

[stu_1992]

Why are you coming back? Can you buy in France and rent it while you are here so you don't piss away your savings?

Where are you going to be? Dublin?

Coming back due my partner finishing up her PHD, and she's from the US so easier to get her a visa back home. Honestly I think we both miss living somewhere english speaking too. We did consider buying here, but it was just a lot of hassle and there was already a lot of other stuff going on. Didn't fancy dealing with the tax of it and managing from abroad either. Rents here aren't very high here, 2 bedroom 60 sqm apartment in the city for 550 a month total.

Ideally looking at coming back to Cork where I'm from and we lived before. But honestly looking at everywhere. Dublin seems better for pets as we have a cat, but we'll see.

Where in France are you

In Brest, Brittany up in the northwest.

Me and the Mrs were in a slightly different situation a few years back, moving from Oman to UK with similar plans of renting then buying, so although different markets between UK and Ireland, be warned that if you plan to rent and start furnishing somewhere back home it costs a fortune! We totally underestimated the costs, so I would stress that you need to be 100% sure of your budgets and cost estimates.

We are now in fact looking at Ireland as an option to buy in - we don't want to settle in UK long term. We might have to try and route that move via another stint in the Middle East to boost the savings pot.

The one thing that looks good for Ireland, is that the costs of some 3-4 bed houses in Kildare, for example, are lower than the costs for 1-2 bed flats where we are currently living. The Mrs' best mate lives in Portlaoise and drives into Dublin for work 5 days a week, and says that its not too bad, but I don't know if she's saying that because she wants her best mate home or not - I'm sure someone here knows the truth!

Kildare is nice to be fair! I can't say I've done the commute but you'd probably be looking at roughly an hour I would imagine.

Anywhere that we'd be renting in ireland will likely be fully furnished anyway as it's rare you would find unfurnished here. We do have stuff in our france rental which we are moving over and putting in storage until we can buy a place.

 

[moses]

Is there really a huge overall supply issue, or is there a supply issue for a specific type of home(i.e. cheap ones)? Aren't thousands of apartments and houses being sold to vulture funds etc. because they don't sell/don't appear to be guaranteed to sell? I think part of the issue is the reluctance of some to live in apartments in and around the city centre too maybe.

Yes there is a supply issue. Vulture funds are buying up blocks of mortgages as well as properties. My mortgage was sold from under me to some nebulous Canadian company. And the ONLY reason they invest here is that there is profit to be had. I'm not sure people are being as fussy as you think. Half the people I know and went to college with live in city center apartments, and a lot of their neighbors are tenants of multinationals. Corporate investment in the market is huge and growing, and that will always be the case without regulation.

 

[moses]

Coming back due my partner finishing up her PHD, and she's from the US so easier to get her a visa back home. Honestly I think we both miss living somewhere english speaking too. We did consider buying here, but it was just a lot of hassle and there was already a lot of other stuff going on. Didn't fancy dealing with the tax of it and managing from abroad either. Rents here aren't very high here, 2 bedroom 60 sqm apartment in the city for 550 a month total.

Ideally looking at coming back to Cork where I'm from and we lived before. But honestly looking at everywhere. Dublin seems better for pets as we have a cat, but we'll see.

You must love that fecking cat.

 

[moses]

Rory Hearne is nothing if not thorough.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/commentanalysis/arid-40775676.html

 

[Massive Spanner]

Rory Hearne is nothing if not thorough.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/commentanalysis/arid-40775676.html

Ugh, so grim

Housing supply will be inadequate with too much of the wrong supply — unaffordable small rental units. House prices will rise further, reaching Celtic Tiger prices. Just 26,000 homes will be built, far from meeting housing need. Most new homes will be unaffordable to buy or rent for average earners. A quarter of all new built homes in 2022 will be bought by global investor funds to rent. In Dublin, it will be even higher. In 2021, 56% of new built homes in Dublin were apartments, mostly bought up to rent by corporate landlords. New homes are not being built in smaller cities and towns. The delivery of new homes fell by 26.4% in the south-west in the third quarter of 2021. The Government should take active measures to stop house prices rising further. Price inflation from bidding wars for homes and estate agents’ role need to be looked at. Tax measures to stop investor fund purchase of existing and new homes are required, as is a high vacant homes tax.

He can bugger off with the traveler comment, though.

 

[Charlie Foley]

Ugh, so grim

Housing supply will be inadequate with too much of the wrong supply — unaffordable small rental units. House prices will rise further, reaching Celtic Tiger prices. Just 26,000 homes will be built, far from meeting housing need. Most new homes will be unaffordable to buy or rent for average earners. A quarter of all new built homes in 2022 will be bought by global investor funds to rent. In Dublin, it will be even higher. In 2021, 56% of new built homes in Dublin were apartments, mostly bought up to rent by corporate landlords. New homes are not being built in smaller cities and towns. The delivery of new homes fell by 26.4% in the south-west in the third quarter of 2021. The Government should take active measures to stop house prices rising further. Price inflation from bidding wars for homes and estate agents’ role need to be looked at. Tax measures to stop investor fund purchase of existing and new homes are required, as is a high vacant homes tax.

He can bugger off with the traveler comment, though.

Page won’t load for me…What did he say about travellers?

 

[Withnail]

Ugh, so grim

Housing supply will be inadequate with too much of the wrong supply — unaffordable small rental units. House prices will rise further, reaching Celtic Tiger prices. Just 26,000 homes will be built, far from meeting housing need. Most new homes will be unaffordable to buy or rent for average earners. A quarter of all new built homes in 2022 will be bought by global investor funds to rent. In Dublin, it will be even higher. In 2021, 56% of new built homes in Dublin were apartments, mostly bought up to rent by corporate landlords. New homes are not being built in smaller cities and towns. The delivery of new homes fell by 26.4% in the south-west in the third quarter of 2021. The Government should take active measures to stop house prices rising further. Price inflation from bidding wars for homes and estate agents’ role need to be looked at. Tax measures to stop investor fund purchase of existing and new homes are required, as is a high vacant homes tax.

He can bugger off with the traveler comment, though.

Page won’t load for me…What did he say about travellers?

Insecure, unsafe, and uninhabitable conditions of Travellers will continue. Traveller children in Cork described their living conditions as ‘hell’ on their halting site. A comprehensive Government response based on treating Travellers as equal human beings is needed.


What am I missing?

 

[kidbob]

Is there really a huge overall supply issue, or is there a supply issue for a specific type of home(i.e. cheap ones)? Aren't thousands of apartments and houses being sold to vulture funds etc. because they don't sell/don't appear to be guaranteed to sell? I think part of the issue is the reluctance of some to live in apartments in and around the city centre too maybe.

Mate apartments in this country are quite literally a fecking joke. Any apartments built before 2018 you can forget about because you can hear someone flushing their toilet in the one next to you. There is no way you could raise a family or be happy in most of what are shit hole apartments currently available.

The problem is that our cities are amongst the worst planned in the World. Dublin, particularly, needs an absolute pile of quality high rise apartments built but the issue is that every plan for these is met with a NIMBY, as if they don't understand that living in a city should have a downside. Without this then what is happening is that Dublin is consuming Kildare little by little. I'm from Kildare and to be honest Maynooth, Leixlip and Celbridge are now suburbs of Dublin and nothing more. This will only get worse for Kildare as residents of Dublin refuse to allow high rise construction to happen in the City.

Dublin is a fecking joke. We should have had an underground, but don't and now we fail to build up because some people want a 'sky-line' to look at, when they don't realise that to have that you should move rural to where there is less amenities.

Finally the government has no incentive to build a lot of houses because that will lower the prices for current homeowners and lose their vote.

 

[moses]

Page won’t load for me…What did he say about travellers?

That they are human. I don't find that controversial.

 

[caid]

You mean all the vacant properties?

That's a given.

Aren't a feck tonne of the ones in Dublin owned by vulture funds now though and intentionally left vacant to keep rent sky high?

Not just vacant properties. Under utilised properties too. Everything above ground floor in dublin is basically unused. And renting shouldn't cost more than a mortgage.
The entire property market in Ireland is broken. You dont fix it with little grants here and taxbreaks there, you tear the guts out of the broken inadequate mess we have and rebuild with drastically different incentives.

 

[moses]

Not just vacant properties. Under utilised properties too. Everything above ground floor in dublin is basically unused. And renting shouldn't cost more than a mortgage.
The entire property market in Ireland is broken. You dont fix it with little grants here and taxbreaks there, you tear the guts out of the broken inadequate mess we have and rebuild with drastically different incentives.

Yeah, nothing above ground floor in any town in Ireland.

 

[caid]

The Mrs' best mate lives in Portlaoise and drives into Dublin for work 5 days a week, and says that its not too bad, but I don't know if she's saying that because she wants her best mate home or not - I'm sure someone here knows the truth!

Relatively its not. Its probably about as far out as you could get and still be not too bad.
You wont see any traffic and will fly from portlaoise to border of dublin in 20 mins then you'll hit a car park and crawl the rest of the way over the course of an hour+ depending on where in dublin you work. Its the same for most people living in dublin really, they cut out the 20 mins of clear motorways but still get the same hour crawl into work.

 

[golden_blunder]

You mean all the vacant properties?

That's a given.

Aren't a feck tonne of the ones in Dublin owned by vulture funds now though and intentionally left vacant to keep rent sky high?

There’s a 3 bedroomed house a few doors away from me. A young couple lives in it and changed the kitchen, bathroom etc. it looked really good. Then they sold and moved. It was bought by a private company 3 years ago. It’s been empty since

 

[moses]

There’s a 3 bedroomed house a few doors away from me. A young couple lives in it and changed the kitchen, bathroom etc. it looked really good. Then they sold and moved. It was bought by a private company 3 years ago. It’s been empty since

I see that as almost violence considering the homelessness.

 

[kidbob]

Relatively its not. Its probably about as far out as you could get and still be not too bad.
You wont see any traffic and will fly from portlaoise to border of dublin in 20 mins then you'll hit a car park and crawl the rest of the way over the course of an hour+ depending on where in dublin you work. Its the same for most people living in dublin really, they cut out the 20 mins of clear motorways but still get the same hour crawl into work.

Also isn't Portlaoise the biggest growing town in Ireland? Won't be long until it becomes another Celbridge, Leixlip et all. Unless we allow the abilility to build up like modern cities then all we are going to do is expand Dublin to include all the surrounding areas in Kildare and Meath and the likes. Building up is needed as is investment in the midlands. Hell there is no reason somewhere like Athlone couldn't be a great place for living and business with the right investment.

 

[caid]

Also isn't Portlaoise the biggest growing town in Ireland? Won't be long until it becomes another Celbridge, Leixlip et all. Unless we allow the abilility to build up like modern cities then all we are going to do is expand Dublin to include all the surrounding areas in Kildare and Meath and the likes. Building up is needed as is investment in the midlands. Hell there is no reason somewhere like Athlone couldn't be a great place for living and business with the right investment.

It'll reach athlone soon enough. Kildare and Wicklow will just be Tallaght suburbs in a decade.

 

[golden_blunder]

I see that as almost violence considering the homelessness.

We’d heard it was a homeless organisation that bought it! Now I’m thinking vulture fund.
They gutted all the nice changes the couple did to the kitchen etc and put the standard one back in.