Is De Gea a bigger Man Utd legend than Peter Schmeichel?

[simonhch]

I like DDG a lot, and he has some astonishing reflexes at times but Schmeichel was the complete package. Incredible reflexes and command of the box. One of the best I’ve ever seen coming off his line for one on ones. And his distribution via his throw was an attacking weapon. One of the top five keepers of all time at his peak. DDG doesn’t compare.

Edwin was fantastic too but he’s a mite shy of big Pete and both are better than De Gea. In terms of Legend status it’s 1.Pete 2.Edwin 3. De Gea, and frankly in terms of ability it’s the same. De Gea just doesn’t have the aerial presence and command of the box as the other two. Nor the distribution.

I never cared about his brief late career turn with City. After his service with us he earned the right to do what he wanted late on, and at the time City were also rans. His performance vs Newcastle, which secured a vital away win in the title race, remains probably the best goalkeeping display in premier league history.

 

[DON’T PANIC ™]

Schmeichel for me just for his dominance in the area.

Unfair to judge on trophies alone though. If Schmeichel had been our keeper for the last 12 years and that was the only difference, does anyone honestly believe our trophy haul would be any different? Maybe by 1 Europa League.

 

[MUFC OK]

This is the goalkeeper version of the Robson/Keane debate.

Schmeichel for me as we dominated with him in goal. He was the better all round keeper as well.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

No, I don't think so. Though a few years ago (like circa 2018, I believe), it did seem like de Gea was on course to match Schmeichel (and by extension, van der Sar) as a United great. There was a semi-general agreement that while the former two were more complete and better organizers, widely considered as Top 10 goalkeepers of all time (for what they achieved with Denmark, Ajax, and the Netherlands in addition to their United stints), and had won more silverware with the club, David was doing indescribable things as a backs-to-the-wall wizard for substantially weaker teams (one of the few silver linings in a dark period for United) — which gave him a certain charm. But his performance levels started deteriorating around the 2018 World Cup, he started making atypical errors (while looking unsure of himself), concerns around his absurd wages became more pronounced, and his flaws became more widely acknowledged and “unforgivable” (especially in contrast with Alisson at Liverpool and Ederson at City, who ushered in a new style and standard at contemporary Premier League level).

All of that has taken an almighty toll on his standing (and no doubt eroded some of the credit he had built up), relative to the Big 2 (who have fairly pristine United legacies as they did not suffer from similar issues over several seasons). Schmeichel arrived as the best goalkeeper in the world according to UEFA and IFFFS, was pretty much one of the absolute best goalkeepers in the world throughout his stint, genuinely scared oppositions with his titanic presence, and left as a Treble winner; while van der Sar stabilized the defense (which became the best in the world and the best in club history), gave Čech (who was getting too comfortable at the top) a kick up the butt, was an integral component of teams that won 4 league titles and reached 3 Champions League finals in just 6 seasons, and retired before his performances suffered a cataclysmic collapse.

Now de Gea being consigned to a lower ranking (for United, and in general) is a foregone conclusion, and his legacy is fairly checkered (for United, and in a wider sense — as Courtois and Alisson will be rated as the greatest goalkeepers of this era after Neuer). Understandable, but also a bit unfortunate as he gave his best years to the club, and was genuinely one of the very best in the world for a period of time. Poor guy got the short end of the stick for club and country alike (who failed to live up to the expectations as a collective); in some ways he contributed to the problems with his reactive approach to goalkeeping, but you could credibly argue that deserved better when he was at the peak of his powers as an All-Time great shot stopper.

De Gea will be thought of more highly as time passes beyond his career with us. It’s like Jose, time has passed De Gea by and that’s fine - some years ago nobody would have cared for his distribution etc While we do need to replace him he’s among the greats for me.

 

[Pronewbie]

This is the goalkeeper version of the Robson/Keane debate.

Not even close. Schmeichel was a reference point. De Gea's overall game should never be a reference point.

 

[Buchan]

Not even close. Schmeichel was a reference point. De Gea's overall game should never be a reference point.

Schmeichel’s cnut-o-meter rating is also a reference point, for what it’s worth (which is a lot, IMO, as the cartwheeling wanker should be ostracised from Old Trafford for his antics in a City shirt at our expense).

Manchester City 3-1 Manchester United, 2003

As the full-time whistle was drowned out by the passionate home crowd celebrating their first derby win in 13 years, stern eyes soon fell on Schmeichel as he cartwheeled in celebration just as he had done on that famous night in Barcelona.

This time he had not won the Treble with United, but he had secured three points at their expense playing for a team they were genetically engineered to hate.

 

[Schmiznurf]

It took DDG 109 games more to equal the record, he's not better.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

I don't think anyone can match the aura or legacy of Schmeichel to be honest.

I'd put De Gea above VDS though.

 

[Chipper]

It took DDG 109 games more to equal the record, he's not better.

I don't think De Gea is better, not at all but at the same time I'm not sure that's the greatest stat to bring up. A lot of it is how good your teammates are. If you have better defenders, or if you kept the ball more you may not be facing as many shots.

Anyway, I'd have Schmeichel as both the best and most legendary United goalie in my time. Would put VDS quite close in ability but Schmeichel fairly comfortably ahead of VDS and DDG in terms of legendary status.

The cartwheel thing doesn't bother be in the slightest. I'm not one who thinks you shouldn't celebrate against your former clubs and believe that true winners might even be more inclined to do so. In this particular case, it's not even just that, he knows/knew how hard it is to beat us, and knew exactly how good our players were having worked with them compared to the players he was with at City at the time. It's a big scalp and would have been an important occasion for him.

Edit: A bit random - I know he didn't play for us, who was that player quite recently performed very well against us in Europe, think he might have scored too but I'm not sure? He was a big United fan and he was buzzing after the match. Would see that along the same sort of lines.

Heard Schmeichel on the radio the other day and he was still calling United "us" anyway.

 

[Cloudface]

I don't think De Gea is better, not at all but at the same time I'm not sure that's the greatest stat to bring up. A lot of it is how good your teammates are. If you have better defenders, or if you kept the ball more you may not be facing as many shots.

Anyway, I'd have Schmeichel as both the best and most legendary United goalie in my time. Would put VDS quite close in ability but Schmeichel fairly comfortably ahead of VDS and DDG in terms of legendary status.

The cartwheel thing doesn't bother be in the slightest. I'm not one who thinks you shouldn't celebrate against your former clubs and believe that true winners might even be more inclined to do so. In this particular case, it's not even just that, he knows/knew how hard it is to beat us, and knew exactly how good our players were having worked with them compared to the players he was with at City at the time. It's a big scalp and would have been an important occasion for him.

Edit: A bit random - I know he didn't play for us, who was that player quite recently performed very well against us in Europe, think he might have scored too but I'm not sure? He was a big United fan and he was buzzing after the match. Would see that along the same sort of lines.

Heard Schmeichel on the radio the other day and he was still calling United "us" anyway.

The thread was created on the basis of clean sheets so I think it's fair to bring up that stat.

But Schmeichel and Van Der Sar are clearly levels above Dave. Their all round games were much better and I think their shop stopping was at least equivalent.

I'd have Dave around Barthez and Tim Howard but clearly above Carroll in ability level.

With regards to Schmeichel playing for City, he was clearly at the end of his career and a spent force so it rankles less. And considering Dave was a very public fax machine away from leaving in his prime it doesn't really weigh the debate one way or the other in my opinion.

 

[stevoc]

Can a players legend status simply be boiled down to how much they won while they were at the club?

If that were the case by that logic Nicky Butt is a bigger United legend than Bryan Robson.

While I don't happen to think Butt and DeGea are bigger legends than Robbo and Schmeichel. I also don't think you can simply point to trophies won as proof of xyz player being a bigger legend.

 

[Sushi Kagawa]

Not hid fault the defence has been a shambles for most of his career

 

[Pronewbie]

Schmeichel’s cnut-o-meter rating is also a reference point, for what it’s worth (which is a lot, IMO, as the cartwheeling wanker should be ostracised from Old Trafford for his antics in a City shirt at our expense).

Manchester City 3-1 Manchester United, 2003

I can understand why a small minority would feel that way but the overwhelming majority have been willing to look past his move to City. I remember being very annoyed by it by his traitorous move and actions back then, considering the replacements we got after he'd left due to stress. But as usual, time has healed all wounds for me. De Gea's no saint either. Same can be said for many legends and their blemishes/transgressions.

 

[MikeKing]

He had a couple of rough patches through his career, especially with the 'moving to Madrid for his girlfriend', various fax machines, and the international team performances. He seemed to be nervous and play like he had imposter syndrome in those periods.. and maybe he did. However, if somebody made a nice video with all his great saves through the years, his legend would grow in an instant. A blockbuster goalkeeper, right up there with Peter.

 

[MUFC OK]

Not even close. Schmeichel was a reference point. De Gea's overall game should never be a reference point.

Was more referring to the fact Robson carried us during less successful times.

It’s undeniable DDG has done that the last 8 years.

He’s behind Schmeichel though.

 

[Nogbadthebad]

Schmeichel showed his arse to United fans when playing for city. He mocked us.

Dave may not be as good a keeper, but hes a better United player.

 

[Eric_the_Red99]

Schmeichel showed his arse to United fans when playing for city. He mocked us.

Dave may not be as good a keeper, but hes a better United player.

This, frankly, is nonsense. For 400 games and the best part of a decade Schmeichel showed his loyalty to the club through his excellent performances and leadership on the pitch. When he ended up at City he was basically in semi-retirement, at a time when they weren’t serious rivals. His legend status at United is assured. It doesn’t matter what he did in his career afterwards.

DDG on the other hand has angled for a move to Real Madrid during his time at United, and gone through unhappy spells where he’s seemingly downed tools. To claim he’s been more loyal to United than Schmeichel is nuts.

 

[Pronewbie]

This, frankly, is nonsense. For 400 games and the best part of a decade Schmeichel showed his loyalty to the club through his excellent performances and leadership on the pitch. When he ended up at City he was basically in semi-retirement, at a time when they weren’t serious rivals. His legend status at United is assured. It doesn’t matter what he did in his career afterwards.

DDG on the other hand has angled for a move to Real Madrid during his time at United, and gone through unhappy spells where he’s seemingly downed tools. To claim he’s been more loyal to United than Schmeichel is nuts.

Indeed, De Gea just has a more chill/lackadaisical personality. IMHO he doesn't really epitomise the values that I associate with United. And as I've mentioned he was nowhere the revolution/reference point Schmeichel was for us.

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

No.

Yes, he’s been player of the year, team of the year more times. Van der Sar was solid but had the best defensive United partnership in history in front of him.

 

[Lost bear]

Question is unfair on De Gea and just invites criticism of him.

Totally agree with this.

 

[Nogbadthebad]

This, frankly, is nonsense. For 400 games and the best part of a decade Schmeichel showed his loyalty to the club through his excellent performances and leadership on the pitch. When he ended up at City he was basically in semi-retirement, at a time when they weren’t serious rivals. His legend status at United is assured. It doesn’t matter what he did in his career afterwards.

DDG on the other hand has angled for a move to Real Madrid during his time at United, and gone through unhappy spells where he’s seemingly downed tools. To claim he’s been more loyal to United than Schmeichel is nuts.

I couldn't care less that he played for city.

But at that last derby at Maine Road, the moment he started mocking us when they won, he was done. That is not a club legend, a bloke that openly mocked united supports when he was on the pitch for city.

Feck him.

 

[Kazi]

If he can win another league with us before he leaves/retires, he’ll go down as a massive club legend.

 

[Grande]

I couldn't care less that he played for city.

But at that last derby at Maine Road, the moment he started mocking us when they won, he was done. That is not a club legend, a bloke that openly mocked united supports when he was on the pitch for city.

Feck him.

What do you mean he mocked you? What did he do to mock you?

Was it like a friendly jibe mockery, adeep hateful mockery, a dangerous persecutive mockery or a lad’s banter mockery?

 

[Nogbadthebad]

What do you mean he mocked you? What did he do to mock you?

Was it like a friendly jibe mockery, adeep hateful mockery, a dangerous persecutive mockery or a lad’s banter mockery?

He did the cartwheel celebration from the CL final in front of the away supporters at maine road.

May not mean much to some, but for me, I don't care if they upset other players, like Keane did, and Schmeichel, to be fair, that is about the profession. He played for city because hes a professional footballer, and they offered him good money. Same with Paul ince and the scouse.

But show your arse to the supporters, there is no excusing it.

 

[Grande]

He did the cartwheel celebration from the CL final in front of the away supporters at maine road.

May not mean much to some, but for me, I don't care if they upset other players, like Keane did, and Schmeichel, to be fair, that is about the profession. He played for city because hes a professional footballer, and they offered him good money. Same with Paul ince and the scouse.

But show your arse to the supporters, there is no excusing it.

I think you are making something personal that isn’t about you, and interpreting things as hostile which are just fun and games.

Schmeichel celebrating a victory the way he sometimes did doesn’t ‘belong’ to the CL final or to Man Utd and certainly not to us. It’s his way of acting out joy.

To interpret a cartwheel as ‘showing the arse’ seems a bit of a paranoid reading.

Gary Neville had demonstrably refused to shake Schmeichel’s hand before the match, which he later ‘defended’ by saying a United player should never be able to play for City, and that Ferguson had instilled a mentality in him to literally hate everybody else, all other clubs and their players. We know Ferguson used to treat other teams managers for wine after games, so Neville’s thought’s and reaction reveals probably only his own simpleton hostile way of thinking. I would describe both ways of thinking as extreme and unfit for use outside of the pitch. Not to wonder if Big Pete felt a little vindictive triumphancy after being ‘welcomed’ back that way by his former comrades in arms. Or he was just happy having helped his underdog team to a sensational win against his juggernaut ex team. Either way it’s a spur of the moment thing, it is strange to make out of it alot more than it is, and very awkward holding a grudge about it twenty years later as if it was about you.

 

[AndySmith1990]

The status of a player often goes hand in hand with the success of the club. Players who were a part of winning numerous trophies, and especially a famous treble, will always be remembered more fondly and held in higher regard than those players who haven't achieved the same success.

When I think of Schmeichel I think about 99. When I think of 99 I think of the greatest achievement in Uniteds history, and a season containing many of my favourite memories as not only a United fan but a fan of football. Unfortunately for De Gea no matter how many great saves he makes he just can't compete with what Schmeichel achieved during his time at the club

 

[PigeonEscobar]

There were periods (mostly during Mourinho and Ole’s tenures) where De Gea had to make more worldie saves in a week than Schmeichel had to make in a season, or at least it felt .
United was far superior to the rest of the league when Schmeichel was in goal.

I think all three (Schmeichel, VDS and De Gea) deserve some sort of a “legend status” at the club.
To me Schmeichel will always be at the top, and Neuer and Buffon aside the best keeper I’ve seen since I started watching football in 1994.

You put Schmeichel behind Rio and Vida in that team with Carrick holding and we would break every defensive record, it was a far more organized and tactically advanced team than the teams we’ve had in the nineties.

 

[Vidic178]

The status of a player often goes hand in hand with the success of the club. Players who were a part of winning numerous trophies, and especially a famous treble, will always be remembered more fondly and held in higher regard than those players who haven't achieved the same success.

When I think of Schmeichel I think about 99. When I think of 99 I think of the greatest achievement in Uniteds history, and a season containing many of my favourite memories as not only a United fan but a fan of football. Unfortunately for De Gea no matter how many great saves he makes he just can't compete with what Schmeichel achieved during his time at the club

Is that fair though? De Gea practically carried United for seasons

 

[UTD_Since_1978]

Even though DDG won player of the season for 4 out 5 seasons & probably in the top 3 best players of the season for the past 8 seasons, I would still say that Schmikes is far better goalie.

 

[peridigm]

At 32, he has a very good chance of doing that in the next 5 years. Question is whether he will still be first choice as ETH reshapes the squad.

If he can win another league with us before he leaves/retires, he’ll go down as a massive club legend.

 

[GlasgowCeltic]

who was that journalist who advised not to bother learning how to pronounce De Gea when he signed as he’d be out the door in no time

 

[BorisManUtd]

It took DDG 109 games more to equal the record, he's not better.

True but Schmeichel played in a team that won everything in the 90s. De Gea played in an average side for decade and I'd say even those first 2 seasons he had under Fergie we weren't great defensively and it was not a great side definitely.

 

[Mr.Ridiculous__]

Get a hold of yourselves on here. VDS and Schmeichel were not levels above DDG as stated above..heck I don't think VDS is above prime DDG.

Prime De Gea was a God. There were entire seasons where his saves were the only highlights of the year. His performance at the Bernabeu in 2013, showed how magnificent he could have been in the UCL, if he just played in the competition more. At his prime, he nearly displaced Neuer as the best in the world. Even Courtois wasn't considered on his level when they were both in the league at the same time. And about his clean sheets record. He wasn't playing behind prime Rio Vida either. Recency bias and disrespect is all I see on here.

 

[berbatrick]

He had a couple of rough patches through his career, especially with the 'moving to Madrid for his girlfriend', various fax machines, and the international team performances. He seemed to be nervous and play like he had imposter syndrome in those periods.. and maybe he did. However, if somebody made a nice video with all his great saves through the years, his legend would grow in an instant. A blockbuster goalkeeper, right up there with Peter.

this misses quite a few including two from one of his best matches (away vs madrid), and has way too much from an average season (18/19), but it's probably the best on youtube. 2:27 is special, no idea what match or context though.
e - actually misses most of his famous ones! the mata free kick, the arsenal double save.

maybe this one is better

e again - second video definitely better. he was on another level in the moyes season, what a fecking waste.

 

[Pronewbie]

Was more referring to the fact Robson carried us during less successful times.

It’s undeniable DDG has done that the last 8 years.

He’s behind Schmeichel though.

Fair enough I just wish we had a good team in front of him at his peak.

 

[Bebestation]

Win a CL next year and then I think he might be.

 

[RoyKeaneReborn]

1000% Schmikes, then VDS, then DDG.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Very happy for him to get his hands in a trophy. Been a wonderful GK for us.

but I do think it would be a mistake not to get a passing keeper in

 

[edn33]

DDG is the better keeper for me. He has the potential to become the greatest keeper of all time.

Judge him only after he has retired. Hope he stays at United forever.

 

[pauldyson1uk]

How is this even s question ?
Big Pete is miles in front of DDG
Pete
VDS
DDG
Stepney
In that order.