Is it a matter of time before heading is banned?

Sandikan

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Dont be a dick. Go do some research of your own. The fastest way people learn and retain knowledge is when they discover answers for themselves, there are a lot of studies available online regrading head injuries, delayed concussion and the impacts on the brain in a number of sports. There are new studies for football taking place that take time to complete because of the nature of the problem. Given the results from other sports studies I have no doubt the final conclusions will end up showing there is a problem in football. Its a simple matter of the nature of the game and the nature of the problem.
You're getting very aggressive here. If you don't have the answer just say so.

I bid ye fair day for now sir.
 

alexthelion

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The balls are made to a standard weight and size which has hardly changed since the 50s, you need to go check that out. I have an old Tango ball from 1982 and it weighs the same as a new ball. It was the last leather ball used at world cup level. "The official size and weight of the ball was first fixed in 1872. It was changed ever so little in 1937 when the official weight was increased from 13-15 oz to 14-16 oz. The Encyclopedia of Association Football (first published in England in 1956) says as follows “According to the Laws of Football, the ball must be spherical with an outer casing of leather or other approved materials. The circumference shall not be more than 28 in., nor less than 27 in, while the weight at the start of the game must not be more that 16 oz., nor less than 14 oz.” The Laws of the Game as published in 2001 say exactly the same thing as to size and weight. What has changed drastically over the last 30 or so years is the material the ball is made of and the shape of the panels that make up the ball."
Ever tried playing with a leather ball when it's wet?
 

Stack

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My old manager once tried a drill where two players would stand 30metres apart and sprint in as he'd boot it in the air.
That one scared me as it just asked for injury :lol:
I first played in the 60s. I had a coach in my teens who limited our heading practice and he warned us of the dangers of delayed concussion, that was in the 70s. Its a problem thats been in the background for a long time. As a coach I was taught the right drills to teach kids how to head a ball, specific drills to make sure they brought the head to the ball rather than them letting the ball hit their head. I first started coaching in 1998. Any coach who does the drills you were told to do didnt have a clue.
 

alexthelion

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The last leather balls were produced in the early 80s, yes I have but its 40 years ago.
They were also coated to make them waterproof, not true leather like 50s, 60s and 70s.
 

Sandikan

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I first played in the 60s. I had a coach in my teens who limited our heading practice and he warned us of the dangers of delayed concussion, that was in the 70s. Its a problem thats been in the background for a long time. As a coach I was taught the right drills to teach kids how to head a ball, specific drills to make sure they brought the head to the ball rather than them letting the ball hit their head. I first started coaching in 1998. Any coach who does the drills you were told to do didnt have a clue.
Well he's managed a non league club without having a playing career and currently works for a premier league team.
But I'll let him know.
Cheers mate.
 

Dwazza Gunnar Solskjær

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Don't boxers also wear head protection when they spar during training, while footballer head the ball all the time in training with no protection. I don't particularly like boxing, and we know the damage that does as well.
In training and at the amateur level. And the risk of brain injury is obvious in that sport.
 

Chief123

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This would have a an absolutely massive effect on football if heading was to be banned. The dynamics of the game would change so much.

Players like Maguire would be massively less effective. Even VVD to an extent.

All corners and free kicks would most likely be taken short. Defenders wouldn’t come up for attacking set pieces. Long balls would become pretty obsolete.

I don’t think football would be as enjoyable as we know it.
 

Red_toad

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Is the research based on current players with the light floaty balls, or the guys who used to head the old leather cannon balls? Old enough to have played weekend football with the old leather shite, that would rattle the crap out of your head on a wet cold match, modern balls are so much lighter.
It‘s contact sport, not sure how sterile you can make it without destroying it as something people want to watch.
 

limerickcitykid

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Don't boxers also wear head protection when they spar during training, while footballer head the ball all the time in training with no protection. I don't particularly like boxing, and we know the damage that does as well.
Helmets or headgear do nothing to stop concussions. In fact they are worse, because it gives the wearer a false sense of security to take even harder hits. An AIBA study says fights are stopped for concussions more often in bouts featuring headgear.

Any calls for helmets in football are just plain stupid.
 

Dwazza Gunnar Solskjær

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Helmets or headgear do nothing to stop concussions. In fact they are worse, because it gives the wearer a false sense of security to take even harder hits. An AIBA study says fights are stopped for concussions more often in bouts featuring headgear.

Any calls for helmets in football are just plain stupid.
This is what happened in ice hockey after helmets became required in the late 70s. Players took harder hits and incidences of concussion skyrocketed.
 

sullydnl

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Is the research based on current players with the light floaty balls, or the guys who used to head the old leather cannon balls? Old enough to have played weekend football with the old leather shite, that would rattle the crap out of your head on a wet cold match, modern balls are so much lighter.
It‘s contact sport, not sure how sterile you can make it without destroying it as something people want to watch.
As alluded to in a few posts above, there's doubt as to how much difference the change in balls would make as the new balls also travel faster than the old ones. The weight and material of the ball isn't the be all and end all.

What would more likely have made a difference between the generations is the fact that there are simply fewer headers per game in modern football. Though even then, the overwhelming majority of headers a player makes in their career will be in training rather than games. So perhaps they're right to look at limiting it in that area first.
 

Red_toad

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It may be banned eventually, probably not for about 20 years though

I’m not sure actually, they’ve progressively made the balls lighter over the decades. The balls the likes of Bobby & Nobby played with were far heavier than the current balls.
Yes and they absorbed water when wet, hurt like a fecker just to kick, never mind head And I’m talking about balls a decade or so after Sir Bobby and co retired, they’ve gotten a lot lighter now.
 

NotThatSoph

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Let's wrap the footballers in bubble wrap and make them wear helmets.

Fecking hell why not ban anything that is even remotely dangerous? Some people need to get a grip.

I can understand banning heading in say, U11s football but come on. People get dementia because of advance age when they've lived their life because hey ho, our bodies break down past a certain age.
This line of argument is always employed in one particular direction. Why not live a little, try something else for a change?

If they're allowing some potentially dangerous things, why not allow everything? Introduce knees to the head and rear naked chokes to the game or we riot.
 

Stack

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I have no idea what should be done. I am very sure that there is a link between dementia and heading the ball based on the available information surrounding general head injury, head injury in other sports and the physiology of the skull and brain. Its going to take a little bit of time before we see very clear information appear regarding football and head injuries and dementia. Right now I think it would be prudent to stopping those under16 from heading the ball. However until there is clear proof of a link and an indication of exactly how big a problem it is I dont know what can be changed or how it could be changed in the senior game. Anyone who thinks there isnt a problem simply hasnt done any research, the size of the problem is the real unknown not if there is or isnt a problem.
 

Salt Bailly

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I clocked that tv show that highlighted 50% of the players from an old school team have died from dementia, but I've also read that 50% of the entire nation will get it, so I'm not sure what the beef is.
 

Oranges038

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The balls are made to a standard weight and size which has hardly changed since the 50s, you need to go check that out. I have an old Tango ball from 1982 and it weighs the same as a new ball. It was the last leather ball used at world cup level. "The official size and weight of the ball was first fixed in 1872. It was changed ever so little in 1937 when the official weight was increased from 13-15 oz to 14-16 oz. The Encyclopedia of Association Football (first published in England in 1956) says as follows “According to the Laws of Football, the ball must be spherical with an outer casing of leather or other approved materials. The circumference shall not be more than 28 in., nor less than 27 in, while the weight at the start of the game must not be more that 16 oz., nor less than 14 oz.” The Laws of the Game as published in 2001 say exactly the same thing as to size and weight. What has changed drastically over the last 30 or so years is the material the ball is made of and the shape of the panels that make up the ball."

The material has to make a difference, the old leather balls were like sponges when it came to water. I know it wasn't always wet and rainy when they played, but if the ground/grass was wet the leather ball soaks it up too and it adds wieght. So these lads training on misty/damp mornings throughout the English winter/spring, with wet grass were playing and heading balls that would have been way heavier than the standard weight mentioned. Also, unless properly maintained, you can be guaranteed that the balls would still be damp and heavier from the day before. Unless dried out and maintained right the leather would harden and wouldn't be soft like a pair of well kept loafers either.

From my own experience. I've never played with one of the old heavy soccer balls, but I have played many times with a GAA ball on a wet day. The ball weighs roughly 500g when dry. But, even playing you notice the difference in weight during the game, by the end it's noticeable how much heavier it gets.

My point being the older leather balls would have originally been made to the the desired weight, but being used daily in training etc. they would have ended up being a lot harder and a lot heavier than that. The newer ones are generally made from synthetic materials and coated and more less likely to soak up water so they wont have the same issues.
 

fps

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You're getting very aggressive here. If you don't have the answer just say so.

I bid ye fair day for now sir.
No he’s got a point. If you’re genuinely interested, do some research.
 

Stack

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I assume you’re joking but skull caps like Cech’s wouldn’t be the worst idea

Pogba would be fuming :lol:
I think you mentioned inertia earlier? I dont know if head gear would solve the problem of inertia. Its the brain being bounced around inside the skull thats the problem and I cant see Petr Cechs type of headgear doing too much
 

golden_blunder

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Let's wrap the footballers in bubble wrap and make them wear helmets.

Fecking hell why not ban anything that is even remotely dangerous? Some people need to get a grip.

I can understand banning heading in say, U11s football but come on. People get dementia because of advance age when they've lived their life because hey ho, our bodies break down past a certain age.
First of all, calm down. It’s a discussion forum and it’s a relevant topic which is in the news at the moment.

let me ask you this, do you really believe that constantly getting hit on the head with something will not damage you long term? Surely there is some level of risk
 

golden_blunder

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I wonder how they can say definitively that it's caused by heading the ball. My dad never played football, but he has dementia.
My mum passed away from dementia

still what you’re saying is like I’ve never eaten fatty foods so I shouldn’t get a heart attack. Sometimes it’s just genetics or whatever.
 

wolvored

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I think eventually they will wear some sort of soft headgear so heading will still be a part of the game but won't be hard enough to hurt other players
 

Chipper

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This would have a an absolutely massive effect on football if heading was to be banned. The dynamics of the game would change so much.

Players like Maguire would be massively less effective. Even VVD to an extent.

All corners and free kicks would most likely be taken short. Defenders wouldn’t come up for attacking set pieces. Long balls would become pretty obsolete.

I don’t think football would be as enjoyable as we know it.
You've got someone like Jamie Vardy in your team and know that defenders can't head the ball away, why are you going to try fewer long balls in his direction?
 

Stack

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He mentioned the many studies so I asked him a fairly open question about them.
You asked me a very specific and leading question which in turn led to me being a dick and calling you a dick. Its really really simple. Go do some research on brain injury, not just football or other sports but also the physiology and the impacts on victims of concussion, delayed concussion, cumulative concussion and brain bleeds. Go look up brain injury peer reviewed study, there are tons of them.
There is a lot of information and evidence out there regarding repeated impact in contact sport and concussion, delayed concussion and cumulative concussion. Rugby and Rugby League already have protocols for head injuries, they wouldnt if there was no danger. What we dont yet know is how widespread or big the problem is in football.
 

Green_Red

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That's part of the current problem, there isn't enough research. So they're calling for more funding for research and measures like reduction of headers in training and restrictions for children in the meantime pending further evidence. In fact in the case of children those restrictions already exist (guidelines are that under 12s shouldn't be heading the ball) but the calls from the likes of Geoff Hurst are for an actual ban.

As it stands the best research so far on football specifically was a 22-month research project by the University of Glasgow that looked at the cause of death for 7,676 ex-pros versus a population average. It found that the ex-footballers were three and a half times more likely to suffer from dementia. There was also a five-fold increase in the risk of Alzheimer’s, a four-fold increase in motor neurone disease and a two-fold increase in Parkinson’s.

There was still a lot of work to be done in confirming that heading in particular was the issue, as well assessing the effect changes in equipment and/or in the way the game is now played (with much fewer headers in a game) has already had. However, there are also studies from other sports from which you could conclude that the impact of even a modern football repeatedly hitting your skull is unlikely to be irrelevant.
Well I think they should refrain from making a claim that the increased likelihood of getting dementia amongst the sample is caused by heading the ball before they come out and ask for it to be banned. Is the collected data and models used available to the public, or just the claims made?
 

Tiber

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Its easy for me to say as i;m not the one at risk, but i'm pretty uncomfortable with ripping out whole parts of the sport in the name of safety

This isn't the NFL taking head to head collisions out of the game to reduce concussions, this would be removing a full side of the sport.
 

Ace

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Eerie feeling seeing this thread pop up... I was thinking the same thing watching the Chelsea match this morning. I think it would start at youth level (and I think it has in some places/age groups) before heading is outlawed professionally.

I think we'd sooner have players all wearing Petr Cech-styled headgear before banning heading all together. It will be a sad day for the football hairdressers of the world.
 

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Makes you wonder how the non footballer people got their dementia... did they also hit something hard with their heads regularly?
More research needs to be done and it is not an easy one. For kids it makes sense since their skull still develops even that alone is already a good enough reason but for adults I don't know, need more data.
 

macheda14

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I clocked that tv show that highlighted 50% of the players from an old school team have died from dementia, but I've also read that 50% of the entire nation will get it, so I'm not sure what the beef is.
The numbers range from 1/14 people over the age of 65 to 1/6 people over the age of 80 will suffer from dementia. It is definitely not 50%.
 

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Are you guys actually serious??? :confused:

I thought the OP was taking the piss, some people actually want to ban heading from the game?
 

golden_blunder

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Are you guys actually serious??? :confused:

I thought the OP was taking the piss, some people actually want to ban heading from the game?
I’m opening up for a serious discussion as this is how I see it going towards. Just to be clear I don’t want to outlaw it, heading is one of my favourite skills. I’m also someone who doesn’t like change.
But I think it’s worth discussing as a current and relevant topic
 

DoomSlayer

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I’m opening up for a serious discussion as this is how I see it going towards. Just to be clear I don’t want to outlaw it, heading is one of my favourite skills. I’m also someone who doesn’t like change.
But I think it’s worth discussing as a current and relevant topic
Banning heading will change the game forever. It would be like banning tackling.

Even the proposals to ban it from training sessions is mind-boggling. Do you guys believe officials should be watching over the teams to enforce such hypothetical rules?