Is it a matter of time before heading is banned?

[Footy van de Geek]

With a lot of players from that era (Sir Bobby, Jack, Nobby, etc) getting it, maybe it's more of a result of their environment and that era.

They would have been exposed to alcohol, smoke, polluted air and potential hazardous substances (mining family and Jack was a miner for a period of time). These could all be factor in people from that time developing medical conditions and health problems.

Add in the harder football and more frequent heading, and you probably have the perfect concoction.

I myself mainly play 6 vs 6 astro, so I would be lucky to head a ball 10 times a year. One big advantage of the smaller, more technical games.

And when I do play on bigger pitches, I'm either taking the corner or lying in wait on the edge of the box á la Scholesy.

 

[golden_blunder]

If someone said to me you can be a professional footballer and have a full career making a shite tonne of money but you’ll get dementia at the age of 80 I’d take that every day of the week. It’s a horrible disease but its usually only onset later in life and these guys have lived a bloody good existence.

I think most people would, I mean if you’re top level earning good money. It would set your family up for life.
but it just popped into my head what about the lower league players? The ones who will never reach those levels and aren’t earning much more than a tradie?

also having seen my mum go through the stages fairly quickly and pass away, I wouldn’t wish it on anyone. It’s a cruel cruel disease.

 

[golden_blunder]

With a lot of players from that era (Sir Bobby, Jack, Nobby, etc) getting it, maybe it's more of a result of their environment and that era.

They would have been exposed to alcohol, smoke, polluted air and potential hazardous substances (mining family and Jack was a miner for a period of time). These could all be factor in people from that time developing medical conditions and health problems.

Add in the harder football and more frequent heading, and you probably have the perfect concoction.

I myself mainly play 6 vs 6 astro, so I would be lucky to head a ball 10 times a year. One big advantage of the smaller, more technical games.

And when I do play on bigger pitches, I'm either taking the corner or lying in wait on the edge of the box á la Scholesy.

We just found victor Lindelöf
Don’t be afraid of the ball Victor, find your inner Vidic!

 

[golden_blunder]

Actually what would be interesting is for the likes of Adams, Bruce, Terry, Vidic to take part in the studies that Shearer is doing

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

I think most people would, I mean if you’re top level earning good money. It would set your family up for life.
but it just popped into my head what about the lower league players? The ones who will never reach those levels and aren’t earning much more than a tradie?

also having seen my mum go through the stages fairly quickly and pass away, I wouldn’t wish it on anyone. It’s a cruel cruel disease.

Sorry about your mum mate it really is horrific!

To be honest the discussion is important but I think banning heading should be the absolute last resort as it will not only fundamentally change the game but it will undoubtedly lose a big part of its value too. The most important thing at this stage is still research and understanding, we just don’t know how much the too are linked.

 

[golden_blunder]

Sorry about your mum mate it really is horrific!

To be honest the discussion is important but I think banning heading should be the absolute last resort as it will not only fundamentally change the game but it will undoubtedly lose a big part of its value too. The most important thing at this stage is still research and understanding, we just don’t know how much the too are linked.

Thanks.

I think there’s enough to warrant further large scale study, maybe take baseline brain scans (if that’s possible) of a bunch of players now at various stages of their career and follow those players through their lifeline.

I’m a big fan of heading (why I get so irritated by players like Lindelöf) as it’s a big part of the game, particularly football from these isles. I’d be very reluctant to change but further study, yes

 

[RedPed]

Is it not a case of these athletes know what their sport entails and have the decision to pursue it or not? Ban astronauts? Ban deep sea diving? Ban sewage works or late night train driving? Ban scaffolding?

I'm not for or against it at the moment, but it is a part of football. It's unfortunate that it seems to almost certainly be linked to dementia and I wish there were ways around it without banning heading but it may be the only way. However, footballers are paid an absolute fortune - more than all the 'danger money' professions I mentioned above - so perhaps it is something footballers will have to enter the game knowing may happen to them years down the line?

What are the percentages like for footballers with dementia or similar brain diseases? It surely doesn't even compare to combat sports?

Completely agree. Which is why I don't understand all the attention football is getting. It's probably an easier target to go for rather than tackling boxing for example where any type of restriction would drastically alter the nature of the game. Not that you could realistically eliminate heading from football either.

 

[tomaldinho1]

I'm sure with technological advancements & the money in football they could design some kind of headgear. It wouldn't even need to be a helmet because you don't head the ball with the side or back of your head (unless you're Chicharito scoring that banger) so it'd just need to cover temples and forehead. Essentially all players could just grow a big R9 patch or wear the headguard. Would look stupid but we'd get used to it.

 

[Mr. MUJAC]

Very interesting. If the sports authorities are really concerned about injuries to players such as the long term effects of head injuries, then rugby league, rugby union, boxing, judo, horse racing, cricket all need to be modified to reflect safety concerns.

I know in cricket some players wear helmets whilst all jockeys do to my knowledge.

In Rugby you may have to ban scrums where many head injuries take place.

I know the old case balls must have had a negative impact but not sure how the softer balls contribute to the situation.

In yterms of not allowing heading at a junior age, sounds good in theory but you may have an increase in injuries as kids never learn to head correctly.

If a change does come in to effect...it may well change the game completely.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

Heading a football doesn't cause concussion though.

Go to the 1:00 minute mark and watch for 30 seconds.

Your brain moves within your skull. Flinging your head in any direction will cause it to move, just a little later than everything else. When your skull stops, the brain keeps moving until it meets up with the inside of your skull.

We all know the situations in football where our heads have moved rapidly in the direction of the ball stopping abruptly when we make contact, or we head a goal kick that's dropping from a good height and travelling fast. Most players, at all levels, usually play for many years.

These impacts don't need to cause noticeable "foggy" concussions because the effects are cumulative. Repeatedly smacking your head into a football or being smacked in the head by one is going to increase your risk of developing a brain disorder. Like I said, the physics and biology suggest it could be a problem, at least for some.

 

[The Boy]

Thanks.

I think there’s enough to warrant further large scale study, maybe take baseline brain scans (if that’s possible) of a bunch of players now at various stages of their career and follow those players through their lifeline.

I’m a big fan of heading (why I get so irritated by players like Lindelöf) as it’s a big part of the game, particularly football from these isles. I’d be very reluctant to change but further study, yes

I don't think there will ever be a change to ban heading the ball, but absolutely agree with the need for a large scale study. People in all walks of life take health risks with their careers, being aware of what the risk is, is what is really important in my mind. The way this story was ignored for such a long time by football authorities is criminal, now thank fully it is being taken seriously and people can judge for themselves the level of risk they are undertaking.

What could well change and obviously already has is the ball itself. A lot more work could be done there to reduce risk. Though obviously not playing with those heavy, wet, leather, deadweight old fashioned balls will have already made a difference.

 

[Ole's screen]

I'm gonna make a point that sometimes gets lost. Players get paid the big bucks to risk injury for the entertainment of others. Thats what sport is. You can never make anything risk free. I'm all for trying, but at a certain point you have to straight up consider if the sport itself is even worth playing if you have to change such a fundamental aspect such as heading in football.

As for rules regarding banning heading in training - it is an absolutely stupid idea. Kids work hours and hours on their skills on their own to try to make it professionally. They're not gonna stop practicing heading just because it is banned in practice. That'll just mean players who practice a lot more heading on their own in a much less monitored environment will be in demand because teams would still want good headers of the ball without practice.

Maybe we have to accept that there is a long term risk of dementia associated with professional football in general and try to encourage more playing on the ground. And maybe conversely don't try to score too much headed goals, and who knows maybe in a few decades heading would be a lot less common in football.

 

[golden_blunder]

I don't think there will ever be a change to ban heading the ball, but absolutely agree with the need for a large scale study. People in all walks of life take health risks with their careers, being aware of what the risk is, is what is really important in my mind. The way this story was ignored for such a long time by football authorities is criminal, now thank fully it is being taken seriously and people can judge for themselves the level of risk they are undertaking.

What could well change and obviously already has is the ball itself. A lot more work could be done there to reduce risk. Though obviously not playing with those heavy, wet, leather, deadweight old fashioned balls will have already made a difference.

Supposedly the modern balls can be just as dangerous as they travel much faster

 

[11101]

Go to the 1:00 minute mark and watch for 30 seconds.

Your brain moves within your skull. Flinging your head in any direction will cause it to move, just a little later than everything else. When your skull stops, the brain keeps moving until it meets up with the inside of your skull.

We all know the situations in football where our heads have moved rapidly in the direction of the ball stopping abruptly when we make contact, or we head a goal kick that's dropping from a good height and travelling fast. Most players, at all levels, usually play for many years.

These impacts don't need to cause noticeable "foggy" concussions because the effects are cumulative. Repeatedly smacking your head into a football or being smacked in the head by one is going to increase your risk of developing a brain disorder. Like I said, the physics and biology suggest it could be a problem, at least for some.

Anybody who has played themselves has surely experienced that foggy feeling after heading the ball. If you are front on it's fine, but many times if you head from the side it leaves you feeling a little dazed for a few seconds. Add in that the higher up the ranks you go, the more aggressively you attack the ball each time you head it. Premier League players are putting everything they have into the connection.

I think ultimately it will be banned but not for a long time yet.

 

[LilyWhiteSpur]

Go to the 1:00 minute mark and watch for 30 seconds.

Your brain moves within your skull. Flinging your head in any direction will cause it to move, just a little later than everything else. When your skull stops, the brain keeps moving until it meets up with the inside of your skull.

We all know the situations in football where our heads have moved rapidly in the direction of the ball stopping abruptly when we make contact, or we head a goal kick that's dropping from a good height and travelling fast. Most players, at all levels, usually play for many years.

These impacts don't need to cause noticeable "foggy" concussions because the effects are cumulative. Repeatedly smacking your head into a football or being smacked in the head by one is going to increase your risk of developing a brain disorder. Like I said, the physics and biology suggest it could be a problem, at least for some.

I get what your saying but surely if there was a significant link with brain disorders and heading a football it would have been much more noticeable before now?

I am not saying dementia shouldn't be taken seriously, its a horrible that causes great heartbreak in a family, but why is it being singled out? Studies show footballers are at DOUBLE the risk of developing osteoarthritis in later life but for whatever reason there are no headlines regarding that, which is another horribly debilitating disease.

 

[Hailee]

Yes they do, where on earth did you get that from?

Plus in addition they also encourage their children to take part in numerous other contacts sports. AFL, rugby, NFL, martial arts of various forms, ice hockey etc etc etc. There isn't an solution to the problem, there can be ways to reduce the issue, but people won't accept not having contact sports and don't want to be wrapped in cotton wool for their entire existence. It's a shame it can't be resolved by wearing some kind of head protection. So it'll be an on going issue and at least people will be going into certain sports fully aware of the risks involved.

Which wealthy parent do you know encourages their kids to take on pro boxing?

Where on earth did you get the idea that boxing is highly encouraged?

You even have a Rocky movie depicting a son of a boxing legend being discouraged from taking up boxing by his mum, his bosses, and pro Gym trainers. I think you have a very mistaken idea about the acceptability of the sport.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

Anybody who has played themselves has surely experienced that foggy feeling after heading the ball. If you are front on it's fine, but many times if you head from the side it leaves you feeling a little dazed for a few seconds. Add in that the higher up the ranks you go, the more aggressively you attack the ball each time you head it. Premier League players are putting everything they have into the connection.

I think ultimately it will be banned but not for a long time yet.

The sound of it always got me, like being hit with a shovel. Interestingly, or maybe not, shooting a .357 magnum revolver in an enclosed space generates a similar sound in my head, so I tend to avoid that calibre.

I get what your saying but surely if there was a significant link with brain disorders and heading a football it would have been much more noticeable before now?

I am not saying dementia shouldn't be taken seriously, its a horrible that causes great heartbreak in a family, but why is it being singled out? Studies show footballers are at DOUBLE the risk of developing osteoarthritis in later life but for whatever reason there are no headlines regarding that, which is another horribly debilitating disease.

It's really only in the last 20-30 years that science has begun to develop a reasonable understanding of what goes on in our heads. We may see more instances tied to playing football as time goes by. Indeed, we are seeing some recently from players who made their mark in the 60s and 70s. How much football had to do with the development of these conditions is hard to say as many things can contribute but bashing your brain into your skull over and over again certainly doesn't help.

I'd say it's being singled out because we can't do anything to help it. To use your example, we can use drugs to mask the symptoms of osteoarthritis and improve quality of life for most sufferers. Other with more severe cases can have joint replacement surgery. We can't do a thing for dementia other than watch people slide into the abyss. Prevention is our only option right now.

 

[Orestetes]

Actually what would be interesting is for the likes of Adams, Bruce, Terry, Vidic to take part in the studies that Shearer is doing

Vidic must already be developing dementia now with all those headers he did for us.

 

[Red_toad]

Which wealthy parent do you know encourages their kids to take on pro boxing?

Where on earth did you get the idea that boxing is highly encouraged?

You even have a Rocky movie depicting a son of a boxing legend being discouraged from taking up boxing by his mum, his bosses, and pro Gym trainers. I think you have a very mistaken idea about the acceptability of the sport.

Where in your post did you make it a wealth thing?
Plenty of kids take up boxing, as it’s about discipline and a way to gain a direction in life. Their parents allow it and support their decisions. I’d suggest you attend a boxing gym and find out rather than sitting in laptop land and judging.

 

[DoomSlayer]

Which wealthy parent do you know encourages their kids to take on pro boxing?

Where on earth did you get the idea that boxing is highly encouraged?

You even have a Rocky movie depicting a son of a boxing legend being discouraged from taking up boxing by his mum, his bosses, and pro Gym trainers. I think you have a very mistaken idea about the acceptability of the sport.

What a load of nonsense.

 

[Hailee]

osteoarthritis

Getting osteoarthritis and dementia is very different. One is quite treatable and the other isn't.

Where in your post did you make it a wealth thing?
Plenty of kids take up boxing, as it’s about discipline and a way to gain a direction in life. Their parents allow it and support their decisions. I’d suggest you attend a boxing gym and find out rather than sitting in laptop land and judging.

You are talking about taking up boxing as an exercise, where kids train by punching pads and maybe some light sparring with thick helmets on and not taught to go hard on the head. That's hardly the same as kids wanting to go pro in boxing. Same for MMA, many kids take up karate and judo as a sport for exercise. They aren't going to be pro MMA fighters. Please, go watch the Creed movie if you are really that mistaken.

The same would be if kids join the little league football teams for exercise and not head the ball when they play. Most won't aim to go pro ever if going pro guarantees them dementia at age 50.

What a load of nonsense.

Typical, no facts and arguments and just laughing.

 

[Red_toad]

You are talking about taking up boxing as an exercise, where kids train by punching pads and maybe some light sparring with thick helmets on and not taught to go hard on the head. That's hardly the same as kids wanting to go pro in boxing. Same for MMA, many kids take up karate and judo as a sport for exercise. They aren't going to be pro MMA fighters. Please, go watch the Creed movie if you are really that mistaken.

The same would be if kids join the little league football teams for exercise and not head the ball when they play. Most won't aim to go pro ever if going pro guarantees them dementia at age 50.
.

Yeah great debate with someone who changes what they posted in their replies. Go to a travellers camp, find out how much the kids there love to box and love a good scrap.
Pretty obvious you’ve never been to a real boxing gym, to enlighten yourself. Plenty of lads who attend dream of being a pro boxer or want to represent their country at the Olympics etc.
I‘m bit lost for a reply to the Creed movie, other than you need to get out more. But you’ll only change what you stated. So I bid you goodbye, as a not worth replying to you again.

 

[LilyWhiteSpur]

Getting osteoarthritis and dementia is very different. One is quite treatable and the other isn't.



You are talking about taking up boxing as an exercise, where kids train by punching pads and maybe some light sparring with thick helmets on and not taught to go hard on the head. That's hardly the same as kids wanting to go pro in boxing. Same for MMA, many kids take up karate and judo as a sport for exercise. They aren't going to be pro MMA fighters. Please, go watch the Creed movie if you are really that mistaken.

The same would be if kids join the little league football teams for exercise and not head the ball when they play. Most won't aim to go pro ever if going pro guarantees them dementia at age 50.



Typical, no facts and arguments and just laughing.

Of course they are different, but living with chronic osteoarthritis, while "treatable" its not curable, and causes some quite unbearable pain.

 

[NWRed]

apparently there are studies showing that the modern footballs are coming at players at a much faster pace which is equally as damaging as heading an older harder ball.

That's a fair point, and repeated heading does seem like it would have consequences, it was just after reading the FIELD study I thought a lot of questions had been left unanswered.

 

[Moby]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[norm87cro]

Honestly hope not.

 

[Bebestation]

Maybe the football needs to get reformed a bit to cause less damage. It can be done surely.

 

[BalanceUnAutreJoint]

Might as well ban football and most professional sports in general then?
They all go over the top, and although the athletes are in great shape, what they do for a living isn't healthy, the injuries, the fatigue, the rythm.

 

[renandstimpyfan83]

I can see it happening. In the long term, football will likely evolve into something resembling a large scale version of futsal.

 

[FootballHQ]

Think in short term (next 10 years) an easy measure would be to ban long punts from goal kicks which lead to heading duels in the centre circle.

That seems to me something that would be pretty easy to implement given many teams just take short goal kicks now to draw opposition out and you lose something that dosen't add much to the spectacle.

Can't ever see corners being banned from head height and sadly you'll still get clashes like Luiz/Jimenez the other week.

 

[MayosNoun]

Old footballs were notoriously heavy and got even heavier in wet weather. Also, head knocks and such were wiped down with a sponge, bandaged and players were allowed to continue.

The balls are far lighter now and there is a lot more safety around head knocks.

A good example which is well known in Scotland is when a Partick Thistle striker, Colin McGlashan had a serious head knock and was clearly concussed. After McGlashan revealed he didn’t know where or who he was, manager John Lambie ordered his assistant to ‘tell him he’s Pele and get him back on the pitch’ - and his assistant obeyed the order.

This sort of attitude was the norm for head knocks although this is a great one-liner, it wasn’t uncommon to return to the match with short term memory loss of an incident. This would never happen now. There is far more protection for footballers and I wouldn’t be surprised if the amount of footballers having dementia significantly decreases as time moves on.

 

[renandstimpyfan83]

Old footballs were notoriously heavy and got even heavier in wet weather. Also, head knocks and such were wiped down with a sponge, bandaged and players were allowed to continue.

The balls are far lighter now and there is a lot more safety around head knocks.

A good example which is well known in Scotland is when a Partick Thistle striker, Colin McGlashan had a serious head knock and was clearly concussed. After McGlashan revealed he didn’t know where or who he was, manager John Lambie ordered his assistant to ‘tell him he’s Pele and get him back on the pitch’ - and his assistant obeyed the order.

This sort of attitude was the norm for head knocks although this is a great one-liner, it wasn’t uncommon to return to the match with short term memory loss of an incident. This would never happen now. There is far more protection for footballers and I wouldn’t be surprised if the amount of footballers having dementia significantly decreases as time moves on.

The point about the lighter footballs was refuted by Dr Willie Stewart on a recent Football Weekly podcast special about dementia (which, oddlywas sandwiched between two episodes that focussed a lot on fetishising headers).

We still see players playing on when they’re clearly concussed on a regular basis. Maybe not the same extent but there is still a great deal of negligence taking place.

 

[Melbourne Red]

It'd be a much better sport. Slicker passages of passing, better movement, smaller and more skilful players going on mazy runs. Your centre-backs would go from being lumbering giants to being smaller, more lithe and agile ballplayers. All the talented, pint-sized dribblers who presently get rejected from academies for not being big enough would suddenly becomes sought after.

The tactical evolution of the game would be breath-taking; with size less of a factor and so many ball players on pitch you could have fluid formations, players filling multiple positions, sweeping attacking movements with the ball on the pitch, players using their close-control to do intricate things in the box. There would be multiple Iniestas in each generation. A version of Rinus Michels' total football would be the norm.

Plus, almost any situation which necessitates someone heading the ball represents the drearier side of football anyway.

Never mind the longitudinal research, just get it done with and think about it later.

 

[renandstimpyfan83]

It'd be a much better sport. Slicker passages of passing, better movement, smaller and more skilful players going on mazy runs. Your centre-backs would go from being lumbering giants to being small, lithe and agile ballplayers. A version of Rinus Michels' total football would be the norm. Almost any situation which necessitates someone heading the ball represents the drearier side of football anyway.

Never mind doing research, just get it done with.

You’d have to put rules in place to avoid the game becoming endless lofted through balls over the top (or teams dropping ridiculously deep to mitigate the threat) though. Would definitely be an interesting experiment.

 

[The Oracle]

I think the heading of a football will eventually be banned at a younger age, possibly even up to the age of 16, but I can never see it being banned from the age of 16 onwards i.e. an adult. What I do think though, is that the authorities (FA, UEFA, FIFA) will heavily restrict the amount of heading that can be done during training sessions - possibly even a quota of headers allowed per 24/48 hour period (to include headers from the match the previous day(s) etc).

From my own experiences playing as a defender, I used to hate it when the opposition's goalkeeper would launch the ball up into the clouds, with the aim of getting it to their striker - who I was marking, and the ball would literally come back down to earth like a dead weight.

So the thought of heading a dead weight of a ball, together with the real possibility of a flailing arm or an elbow from the player you were marking, was one of the reasons why I enjoyed my 5 a-side footballing days more than my eleven a-side ones; as during 5 a-side headers were not allowed.

 

[Melbourne Red]

You’d have to put rules in place to avoid the game becoming endless lofted through balls over the top (or teams dropping ridiculously deep to mitigate the threat) though. Would definitely be an interesting experiment.

Yep, definitely would need field hockey style rules about lofted passing.

 

[Melbourne Red]

I fecking hated heading long-balls. Any time I actually connected with one - which I assiduously tried to avoid by pretending I'd misjudged it - it felt like I'd been hit with a sledgehammer, and I'd start seeing stars like a cartoon character.

 

[Number32]

MEDIA=twitter1341033181215150088MEDIA

His father's life was 15 years longer than mine, had been earning money more, and yet He is still complaining about the disease?

I think his father would never regret what he was doing, heading the ball as much as he could.

As Asian, We would be happy if heading is baned from football, it will be less effort in defense, because we are the shortest race in the world. But as football fans, I really hate this idea.

 

[elmo]

Not so many years ago, the balls were a lot heavier especially when wet, and in my school days, we still had some balls with laces.
A lace imprint on your forehead would last for hours.
Some players, especially defenders, would practice heading the ball as far as they could on a regular basis.

I think it was in the early 1980s that balls were coated to stop water making them heavier., the old-style footballs also lost some shape during a match.

I wonder if the more modern balls cause less of a problem, and it may be that footballs can still be improved to help this issue.

Footballs in the 1960s had not changed much for many years and were pretty similar to those made in the 1880s it's incredible the level of skill that people like Mathews, Charlton, and others displayed with these old-style footballs

Heading the old style when wet and much heavier was an experience that left you feeling dizzy for short while.

I'm sure modern football helps a lot more, but it's definitely worth investigating the impact of heading in football today.

Modern balls are lighter but can reach even faster speeds which might make the overall impact even higher on your head.

 

[Penna]

His father's life was 15 years longer than mine, had been earning money more, and yet He is still complaining about the disease?

I think his father would never regret what he was doing, heading the ball as much as he could.

As Asian, We would be happy if heading is baned from football, it will be less effort in defense, because we are the shortest race in the world. But as football fans, I really hate this idea.

It doesn't matter how old your parents are when they die - 50 years old or 100, you still mourn them in the same way. You'd expect his son to be distressed about it and to be looking for answers. Constant blows to the head can cause abnormalities in later life - boxers are having similar problems.