Is it a matter of time before heading is banned?

golden_blunder

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Banning heading will change the game forever. It would be like banning tackling.

Even the proposals to ban it from training sessions is mind-boggling. Do you guys believe officials should be watching over the teams to enforce such hypothetical rules?
I’m guessing it would be looked after by club medical people and spot checked by authorities.
just a guess. Like I say I don’t want it to happen

bet Lindelöf is licking his lips!
 

DoomSlayer

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I’m guessing it would be looked after by club medical people and spot checked by authorities.
just a guess. Like I say I don’t want it to happen

bet Lindelöf is licking his lips!
No offense, but it just sounds like a huge amount of nonsense to me. Competitive sports are dangerous and require total dedication. Athletes know this when they decide to pursue such a career.

If we talk about heading, then any kind of danger has to come into the topic. You can't pick and choose, it just doesn't make sense.
 

Web of Bissaka

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Now:
We must protect players more and more, they're fragile!
Even tackles hurt and dangerous.
Think of the children! and what'll happen to them in the future once they get old!

50 years later:
International Law - no physical contact sports are allowed. Ban. Only cyber sports. Safe.
Football has now turned into a team e-sport online live using VR headset connecting players, managers, sponsors and fans.
Players will play standing in an immovable circular field mat running machine, connected to the e-sport so as to maintain the natural feelings of playing football with sweats and real life movements.
 

Web of Bissaka

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Okay, I do get the concern, but then it's not just football that is "dangerous" or rather always carry the risk of head/brain injuries. Plenty of sports are always having this.

Football without heading is just... not football.
People who is not willing to take the risk maybe shouldn't pursue a career in playing football.

That said, I think more safety precautions should be coached/teached to players, like how to fall down and head the ball safely, etc. Heading the ball requires the "right" technique if you don't want to feel dizzy afterwards, especially when at young age heading hard balls. Quality of the balls should also be maybe strict and monitored in different levels. Etc.
 

bosnian_red

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Hope it doesn't change that. All sport has risks and takes its tolls on people's bodies. The state of footballers knees are horrendous by the time their done their careers and especially if they had bigger injuries. People play the sport because they love it, with the risks.
 

Pablo76

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Hope it doesn't change that. All sport has risks and takes its tolls on people's bodies. The state of footballers knees are horrendous by the time their done their careers and especially if they had bigger injuries. People play the sport because they love it, with the risks.
I’ve seen ex footballers with ruined knees from all the running and mangled feet from wearing boots too small, now we have dementia from heading and mental illness, addiction and more after retirement, there are dangers in sport and always has been.

I don’t want anyone to suffer adverse effects and we should be aware and recognise all of these and more, but simply put, if they ban heading in football, I’d never watch a match again.
 

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You've got someone like Jamie Vardy in your team and know that defenders can't head the ball away, why are you going to try fewer long balls in his direction?
Long balls over a defence would still happen, probably more so. But I’m referring to long balls direct to a target man like Mitrovic or big guys who head it and bring other players into play.

Essentially it’s going to change the way a lot of teams play and also make some players pretty much redundant. No team is going to have a need for someone like Andy Carroll and Mitrovic.
 

golden_blunder

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No offense, but it just sounds like a huge amount of nonsense to me. Competitive sports are dangerous and require total dedication. Athletes know this when they decide to pursue such a career.

If we talk about heading, then any kind of danger has to come into the topic. You can't pick and choose, it just doesn't make sense.
Look, all I did was create a thread about something that’s currently a growing concern in football. Then i am asking is where it’s going to end? I’m not picking and choosing anything. If there was research about players testicles getting damaged from free kick blasters then I’d discuss that too. It’s a forum
 

Chipper

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Long balls over a defence would still happen, probably more so. But I’m referring to long balls direct to a target man like Mitrovic or big guys who head it and bring other players into play.

Essentially it’s going to change the way a lot of teams play and also make some players pretty much redundant. No team is going to have a need for someone like Andy Carroll and Mitrovic.
Oh sorry, didn't know you specifically meant that kind of long ball and I agree, strikers with their main strength being strength and jumping ability would disappear.

Also agree that players like Maguire would be gone. To counteract Vardy, who the new rules would benefit they'd have to play defenders who had a lot of speed. Even so, those defenders now either have to control the ball with Vardy running after them or hit a first time volleyed pass or clearance, both of which will likely go wrong more often than a header does now as they're harder skills to perform.
 

Hailee

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This is really dumb. You want all the parents to stop kids playing football like they stopped playing handegg and boxing? Because this is what will happen if it is proven that heading causes dementia.

Before you say that young players still play handegg and boxing and ice hockey today despite the CTE risk, take note that the current NBA number one pick Anthony Edwards was a football player. He even said he isn't really into basketball and would rather play in the NFL. He can’t even watch basketball. No doubt his agent and his loved ones got to him and told him to pick a longer career in basketball over handegg which has greater health repercussions in the long run.

It will be a sad day when the nation's top young players choose to take up other sports instead because they don't want to go senile heading the ball too much.
 
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Lack of sleep throughout life, less than 7 hours a day has a direct link to dementia, yet people like Reagan and Thatcher wore that “I only sleep 4 hours” like a badge of honour.
Sleeping properly is clearly more important so force people to sleep more and shorten work and school hours, starting later.

Fact is, if people CHOOSE to do something that harms no-one else, fecking let them you interfering gimps. This isn’t demolition man.
 
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RedPed

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I think it's dumb how they keep going on about heading when you have boxing and MMA. Doesn't make any sense. But of course they wouldn't even dream of banning boxing.
 

Hailee

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I think it's dumb how they keep going on about heading when you have boxing and MMA. Doesn't make any sense. But of course they wouldn't even dream of banning boxing.
Boxing and MMA doesn't nearly have the reach of football. You don't see parents encouraging their kids to be boxers or fighters.

Even the state of national teams of developed nations if this happens.
 

RedPed

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Boxing and MMA doesn't nearly have the reach of football. You don't see parents encouraging their kids to be boxers or fighters.

Even the state of national teams of developed nations if this happens.
That's not the point. You can't bemoan the impact of heading and be looking to curb it when other sports are more severe. It doesn't make sense to ban or restrict heading because of its links to dementia etc. when people have had similar conditions or even died in the ring. I may be mistaken but I don't know of anyone who actually died on the field of play after heading a ball.
 

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More and more research showing links to dementia from heading footballs.

calls from PFA to reduce heading training

will heading eventually be ruled illegal or will football introduce some kind of padded headgear for players?
Corners/long throws would be rendered practically useless and would change the game dynamics drastically. Head gear would seem more likely as well the banning of coaching it at youth level. Saying that I am sure you can still teach heading technique with softer balls to kids/young players and not practice heading with match balls until fully grown.
 

Okey

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I think they're going way too far with this, and I'm surprised it's having this much traction. There's way too many postulated causes of dementia, and the vast, vast majority of dementia sufferers didn't play sport. I can't see any evidence remotely strong enough to suggest changing a basic dynamic of the game because of a dementia risk. What about all the other, more common risks of injury in football? The other sports where they actually take direct blows to the head?
 

golden_blunder

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I think they're going way too far with this, and I'm surprised it's having this much traction. There's way too many postulated causes of dementia, and the vast, vast majority of dementia sufferers didn't play sport. I can't see any evidence remotely strong enough to suggest changing a basic dynamic of the game because of a dementia risk. What about all the other, more common risks of injury in football? The other sports where they actually take direct blows to the head?
Another report highlighted by the Jeff Astle foundation shows that 46% of footballers from the 60s era died from neurological reasons

there’s something in it but we’d need to see a study from recent eras where the football is completely different
 

Carl

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Footballs these days are way different to the ones from even 20 years ago, never mind 40,50 or 60 years ago when a lot of these cases are from.

Banning heading outright would be absolutely stupid, but a positive step could maybe be putting a ban on goal kicks or something similar. Even if not at Pro level, this should be done at junior levels. I used to hate going for a header from a goal kick, used to really ring my bell.
 

Greck

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Pretty certain this is an overstated notion. They aren't heading medicine balls. The average player doesn't head the ball more than a couple times a week and that's including training

Clubs can limit the aspects of training that requires continuous heading practice but banning it in the actual game is overkill
 

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First they'll implement special head gear for protection, then lighter and more elastic ball and then serious ban will happen, but it's not so distant utopia using only foot for a game called football, especially when attempts for banning loud concerts are already happening.
 

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If you think about it, heading the ball in football is so god damn inefficient. There is so much risk to reward involved that I always questioned its primitive nature. It might change the dynamics of corners but that’s okay - it will just force more skill demands out of chest, knees and feet which is much much safer anyway.

It will force much more entertaining and beautiful football to be played on the floor and eliminate so many wasteful hopeful crosses into the box when it’s only heads to aim for.

Think about it, a defender only has to head a ball if the attacking team is aiming for the attackers head. Right? Well if the attacking team has no incentive to aim for a header, the defender has no reason to head the ball. It’s gone. It’s safe.
 

Hailee

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That's not the point. You can't bemoan the impact of heading and be looking to curb it when other sports are more severe. It doesn't make sense to ban or restrict heading because of its links to dementia etc. when people have had similar conditions or even died in the ring. I may be mistaken but I don't know of anyone who actually died on the field of play after heading a ball.
But you are missing the main point though. If you don't ban heading and it is proven to cause dementia, football will go down the way of boxing and MMA. Is that what you want to see?
 

RedPed

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But you are missing the main point though. If you don't ban heading and it is proven to cause dementia, football will go down the way of boxing and MMA. Is that what you want to see?
Of course not. So I'm saying ban heading...ban boxing and MMA. Simple.
 

Lennon7

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Of course not. So I'm saying ban heading...ban boxing and MMA. Simple.
Is it not a case of these athletes know what their sport entails and have the decision to pursue it or not? Ban astronauts? Ban deep sea diving? Ban sewage works or late night train driving? Ban scaffolding?

I'm not for or against it at the moment, but it is a part of football. It's unfortunate that it seems to almost certainly be linked to dementia and I wish there were ways around it without banning heading but it may be the only way. However, footballers are paid an absolute fortune - more than all the 'danger money' professions I mentioned above - so perhaps it is something footballers will have to enter the game knowing may happen to them years down the line?

What are the percentages like for footballers with dementia or similar brain diseases? It surely doesn't even compare to combat sports?
 

jus2nang

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I’d want to ask if there is any evidence of a link when using modern footballs as opposed to the ones from the 60s and 70s which must have been akin to heading bricks
This. I was thinking pretty much this. Of course the sufferers we know about now played the game at a time when a much tougher, heavier ball was used. They're much lighter now.

If anything, they could make the balls even lighter - the Jabulani was very light for example.
 

Meadowlark

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I think they're going way too far with this, and I'm surprised it's having this much traction. There's way too many postulated causes of dementia, and the vast, vast majority of dementia sufferers didn't play sport. I can't see any evidence remotely strong enough to suggest changing a basic dynamic of the game because of a dementia risk. What about all the other, more common risks of injury in football? The other sports where they actually take direct blows to the head?
Like what? I can't think of any as serious as this. There have been reforms in some other sports where players take blows to the head. It isn't exactly a novel discovery. It was even the subject of a Ridley Scott film starring Will Smith -- Concussion. I'm surprised it has taken this long for this to gain traction.
 

Red_toad

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Boxing and MMA doesn't nearly have the reach of football. You don't see parents encouraging their kids to be boxers or fighters.

Even the state of national teams of developed nations if this happens.
Yes they do, where on earth did you get that from?

Plus in addition they also encourage their children to take part in numerous other contacts sports. AFL, rugby, NFL, martial arts of various forms, ice hockey etc etc etc. There isn't an solution to the problem, there can be ways to reduce the issue, but people won't accept not having contact sports and don't want to be wrapped in cotton wool for their entire existence. It's a shame it can't be resolved by wearing some kind of head protection. So it'll be an on going issue and at least people will be going into certain sports fully aware of the risks involved.
 

Eli Zee

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Maybe we can call it soccer all over the world and if the ball is above your head, you can punch it in with your hand
 

In Rainbows

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In your extensive reading of said studies has there been a percentage difference given in likelihood of getting dementia with heading footballs versus not?
That's literally the whole point of the study. You don't think researchers thought of this very basic logical question? Give the researchers a little more credit. It's like when some deny climate change and ask whether researchers considered the effect a sun has on the entire system.
 

Number32

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You guys are funny. It's like Basketball banned the dunk in the 60's.

If you take it seriously your government should control your drinking alcohol habit first. I'm no doctor, but just look at the map of Dementia's cases, the higher cases are in the heavy drinking alcohol countries, and most of lower case in the countries that control the alcohol consumption or their people have no alcoholic habit. Some research said drinking low alcohol may be protective, but high consumption will increase your risk to get dementia.

There many many retired footballers in other countries who free from Dementia despite heading the same ball in the 60's. Even Pele had headed more balls than any of retired English footballers who got dementia recently. I agree with a comprehensive research about the impact of heading in football to our health, but would you take the samples all around the world not just in the UK?
 

NWRed

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More and more research showing links to dementia from heading footballs.

calls from PFA to reduce heading training

will heading eventually be ruled illegal or will football introduce some kind of padded headgear for players?
Not sure about data behind these stories. The often quoted study by the University of Glasgow that showed ex players were 3.5 times more likely to die from a neurodegenerative disorder was based on players born between 1900 and 1976 so heavily weighted towards players who played with much heavier balls than todays players, and I haven't seen a breakdown by decade of play etc.

There's other problems with the interpretation of the headline figure: football players lived longer on average, so are more likely to reach older ages when neurodegenerative diseases occur and they were less likely to die from pretty much every other cause (i.e. were generally in much better physical condition) so if their bodies are less likely to cause death it makes it more likely their brain will be the organ that fails (you have to die from something eventually).

Taking these factors into consideration I'd be very skeptical about using this data to drawi conclusions about modern day footballers heading a modern football regularly.
 
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kouroux

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Not sure about data behind these stories. The often quoted study by the University of Glasgow that showed ex players were 3.5 times more likely to die from a neurodegenerative disorder was based on players born between 1900 and 1976 so heavily weighted towards players who played with much heavier balls than todays players, and I haven't seen a breakdown by decade of play etc.

There's other problems with the interpretation of the headline figure: football players lived longer on average, so are more likely to reach older ages when neurodegenerative diseases occur and they were less likely to die from pretty much every other cause (i.e. were generally in much better physical condition) so if their bodies are less likely to cause death it makes it more likely their brain will be the organ that fails (you have to die from something eventually).


Taking these factors into consideration I'd be very skeptical about using this data to drawi conclusions about modern day footballers heading a modern football regularly.
All very good points. It reminds of documentaries I watched explained how every research has to be put in context in order to see that it was conducted as fairly and objectively as possible.
 

golden_blunder

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Not sure about data behind these stories. The often quoted study by the University of Glasgow that showed ex players were 3.5 times more likely to die from a neurodegenerative disorder was based on players born between 1900 and 1976 so heavily weighted towards players who played with much heavier balls than todays players, and I haven't seen a breakdown by decade of play etc.

There's other problems with the interpretation of the headline figure: football players lived longer on average, so are more likely to reach older ages when neurodegenerative diseases occur and they were less likely to die from pretty much every other cause (i.e. were generally in much better physical condition) so if their bodies are less likely to cause death it makes it more likely their brain will be the organ that fails (you have to die from something eventually).

Taking these factors into consideration I'd be very skeptical about using this data to drawi conclusions about modern day footballers heading a modern football regularly.
re the bolded part, apparently there are studies showing that the modern footballs are coming at players at a much faster pace which is equally as damaging as heading an older harder ball.

I thInk the only sensible thing to do is play with a 99p striker football
 

TrustInJanuzaj

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If someone said to me you can be a professional footballer and have a full career making a shite tonne of money but you’ll get dementia at the age of 80 I’d take that every day of the week. It’s a horrible disease but its usually only onset later in life and these guys have lived a bloody good existence.