It’s not facts though is it, he was very good in his first season and last season at the very least.
Is Jadon Sancho really worth the 100 plus million fee?
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Not really though. He isn't good enough but let us keep pretending he is eh, it's worked out so far... Right?
The big difference between the two, for me, is how much of a winner and leader Grealish is. I think he is more likely to take a game by the scruff of the neck and more likely to come to the fore in difficult moments. On the right for us, where the player can find himself isolated or working with an unnatural and uncomfortable right back, I think Sancho would be more prone to disappearing and underwhelming.
Stylistically, though, there is no reason to think Sancho struggles in breaking down a set defence more than any other good attacking player. He is very creative and excellent in tight spaces, and he makes great decisions. Very sensible and secure in possession - similar to Grealish and a far cry from Rashford and Fernandes.
Nobody said that though. Just don’t know why people have to embellish to make their point. In what world was he not good in his first season or last season?
Not really a fair comparison though. One plays for Villa the other plays for Dortmund with class players around him.
Without Sancho coming back, Dortmund are playing in the Europa League.
Maybe I'm looking at the bigger picture, at the whole of his time with us. After six years and 50 million, I don't think we should mark him as good based on last year and his first (if we accept those) it just seems to be best for all if he moves on. If you want to say two good years that's four bang avarage seasons and we don't need that kind of inconsistency
So if we did get Sancho what do you think would be acceptable stats for his first season in the Premier League?
It hasn't been one good season.
Martial has had two good seasons, two seasons where he didn't get to play as much as he should (mostly because of poor management but also some injuries) but he was good when he did play, and two poor seasons. Obviously it's more inconsistent than we'd like but it's not as bad as people make out.
Sigh - we're at the "optimistic" stage of a Utd summer transfer window cycle.
The stage where journos come out making huge proclamations of hitherto unseen spending plans at the club, that will right all our wrongs in one go. Next season will be different. We've learned our lesson.
This will include the 3/4 positions we're looking to fill, and will do the rounds for a couple of weeks as our main targets for each position are fed to our eager fanbase. This time Utd are acting fast. There is genuine change happening behind the scenes.
Slowly, however, as the summer passes by and international tournaments become the focus the stories get murkier. "Utd have a list of options for each position" - "They won't make a move until after the Euros" - "Dependent on outgoings" - "Chelsea/City/Liverpool enter the conversation".
And then it's 4 weeks before the start of the next season. Our rivals are getting/have gotten deals over the line that had been doing the rounds for barely a week, and include names that were supposedly on our radar.
The squad returns for preseason. Comments about "squad harmony" and "player development" dominate press conferences. This isn't the tone we ended the previous season on. Is Ole being backed? He says yes, but it sounds strained.
Fans get antsy. This is looking horribly familiar. Forced anticipation will arise as a picture of Woodward leaving a friendly at halftime circulate Twitter.
And then we get one over the line. We fill a position that was never truly considered the main problem area. But it's left-field (probably quite literally) and indicative of our new approach. Says the spin-doctor employed by the club.
The season starts.
Basically. Don't do it to yourselves guys. Transfer windows are our very own boom-bust cycle. Unless a transfer is confirmed, assume it isn't happening. Save yourselves early.
The stage where journos come out making huge proclamations of hitherto unseen spending plans at the club, that will right all our wrongs in one go. Next season will be different. We've learned our lesson.
This will include the 3/4 positions we're looking to fill, and will do the rounds for a couple of weeks as our main targets for each position are fed to our eager fanbase. This time Utd are acting fast. There is genuine change happening behind the scenes.
Slowly, however, as the summer passes by and international tournaments become the focus the stories get murkier. "Utd have a list of options for each position" - "They won't make a move until after the Euros" - "Dependent on outgoings" - "Chelsea/City/Liverpool enter the conversation".
And then it's 4 weeks before the start of the next season. Our rivals are getting/have gotten deals over the line that had been doing the rounds for barely a week, and include names that were supposedly on our radar.
The squad returns for preseason. Comments about "squad harmony" and "player development" dominate press conferences. This isn't the tone we ended the previous season on. Is Ole being backed? He says yes, but it sounds strained.
Fans get antsy. This is looking horribly familiar. Forced anticipation will arise as a picture of Woodward leaving a friendly at halftime circulate Twitter.
And then we get one over the line. We fill a position that was never truly considered the main problem area. But it's left-field (probably quite literally) and indicative of our new approach. Says the spin-doctor employed by the club.
The season starts.
Basically. Don't do it to yourselves guys. Transfer windows are our very own boom-bust cycle. Unless a transfer is confirmed, assume it isn't happening. Save yourselves early.
No idea. It will be his first season in this league and only turned 21 a couple of months ago. I don't even expect him to be a guaranteed starter.
Doubt digits in goals and assists will be a great first season imo.
If it makes you feel any better our windows coinciding with the Euros are usually good
2004- Window we signed Rooney for a teenage record fee
2008- Window we signed Berbatov for a record fee after winning the CL
2012- Window we signed RVP and won the PL
2016- Window we signed Pogba for a record fee won 2 trophies afterwards
Hopefully this one follows a similar trend
Fair enough.
Special player, some lovely clips that didn't result in goals or assists too. I think someone like Cavani would love playing with him.
Having watched him regularly since he moved to Germany, I'd be so excited to sign him.
You bastard ! Killed me already
Not sure how I feel about this given the transfer fees being discussed.
If Grealish wasn't possibly going to City then would be all in for this
special, special player. People fawn over Haaland (rightly so), but this guy has consistently been Dortmunds best and most important player.
he'd be a great fit for us. Just hope it's not going to be a dragged out saga once again.
he'd be a great fit for us. Just hope it's not going to be a dragged out saga once again.
The situation hasn’t really changed since last summer apart from Dortmund lowering their asking price slightly. It’s still basically a case of Utd stumping up the cash required to sign him and he’ll be ours or like last time we feck about and fail to meet their price and it collapses again, big difference this time is there’s a good chance he signs elsewhere so it’s now or never imo.
I’m convinced it’ll happen but also I’m convinced we’ll drag our feet over it.
Martial set up a business all branded on his number. When that happened he lost his smile.
All footballers have issues with girls, because they cheat on them 90% of the time and it doesnt affect them to the extent of how poor Martial became.
Either he is very weak minded or was very bitter over losing something that was not his Official Job, of which he gets paid a fortune to do.
He is very unprofessional.
Funny how the same circumstances happened to Jesse too & he ended up playing like a vegetable.
These guys are Paid to be professional footballers, not pimps or hobby businessmen. They have a lifetime to do all of that after they retire tbh.
IMO he is going to be transformative for our attack in the balance he brings. Much more important then a Haaland or Kane. Haaland looked mediocre while Sancho was injured btw. Imagine Cavani and even Martial having service from all sides. Our 70+ goals this season in the league goes to high 80 or beyond.
90m is still too expensive.
Sancho OR Grealish If you can buy just one
Sell Pogba & get both
Grealish would be a hell of a signing.
But for the good of the team and balance we desperately need someone who is a strong starter on the right.
If we bought Grealish, we'd have the same problem of who to play on the right, and how Rashy fits in and suchlike.
Yeah bigger fan as I am of Jack we have to focus on the player who fits the position we need to address better
As much as it pains to say, we need to do it the way Liverpool and City did it.
Identify where you need an upgrade and get the best player for that position.
Right wing
Centre back
Centre Mid
are probably the order and the positions we need a big player.
We laughed at Liverpool moaning about their centre back situation, but Maguire out for about 4 games at the end showed how desperate we'd be in that position if he was out any sort of time.
It doesn't bear thinking about how we'd have gone if Maguire, Lindelof, Bailly and Tuanzebe were out for months at the same time!
I'm the same. Obviously a good player but if signing him meant it would negatively effect our other business in the market I'm not sure. But I still doubt we'd actually spend that much.
Footballers are humans. If they are having personal issues and mental problems (for whatever reason) it is going to impact their football performances. You also again ignored how I pointed out he was also moved to a new position and was playing under a manager that didn't like him. Do you think maybe they might have had an impact as well, or is it purely because he had his shirt number taken off him? Bear in mind that Rashford is poor when he plays a different position, and the likes of Shaw and Pogba had poor periods under that same manager as well. They didn't change their numbers so what's their excuse?
Yeah we need to focus on the important business first like RW, CB & CDM whereas Jack should come into the thinking IF we could manage to sell Pogba this summer and same with Ronny is regards to Martial but don't see either leaving
I think our more pressing need is for a world class finisher. Cavani is basically on a one year rental and if he gets injured, we would be back to square one of relying on Martial and Rashford, which wouldn't be good enough for top 4, much less competing for important trophies. This is why Haaland or Kane should be the bigger priority imo.
Sancho is a more savvy investment for our team in the long-term than someone like Ronaldo, for example, and it's very unlikely Kane will come here due to dealing with Levy, and talk around Haaland to United is non-existent right now. I'd be excited if Sancho signed for us. We definitely need a better finisher up top, not sure if the club expects Greenwood to be that player eventually though.
Grealish is also more likely to end up in rehab for alcoholism during the season
Martial has scored something like 23 last season so I would not write him out just yet. I don't see pure CFs, be they Martial or Cavani miss sitter after sitter to think finishers are the problem. Against deep blocks we seldom create chances like that.
Teams do not set up against us like they do against Spurs or Dortmund. For as long as we only have one flank capable of creating danger I think any CF will look limited.
I rate Martial when he's in form, but we need a new RVN - someone who is physical presence in the box and can knock in 35-40 goals. This would remove a lot of pressure on Bruno, Rashford, and Greenwood to make up for goals our lead striker should be contributing. I don't mind Sancho either, but have serious reservations about the price and his overall value in the abesnce of us having a dominant striker to take advantage of his creative instincts.
Martial and his issues were all personal and ultimately caused by himself.
The manager didn't like him, because his attitude after having his number taken and in affect ending his business was poor and unprofessional and Martial sulked for 2 + years as a result.
He wasn't professional and that cost him.
A lot of people are played out of position, yes it's not ideal, but they still put more in than Tony has sadly.
Sulked for 2+ years? He was poor at the start of Mourinho's first season but improved a bit by the end. In Mourinho's second season Martial was our best left attacker (comfortably better than Rashford even though it took far too long for Mourinho to acknowledge this) until he was stupidly dropped when we signed Sanchez who never got close to the level that Martial had been playing at. He barely got a chance there again until Mourinho was about to be fired in his third season, at which point Martial instantly came in and, along with Pogba, kept him in a job for a couple of extra months.
Martial was poor in 16/17, particular at the start of the season. There were a number of different things that happened at that time that could have caused it (which I mentioned above), or likely a combination of them all. I would hazard a guess that his personal life issues and change to a new position were likely the biggest contributors, but that's all it is - a guess. You are the one trying to claim it definitely was because his number was changed and hurt his business, using false evidence (sulking for 2+ years).
I think that is an exceptional argument and one that as far as football goes can be seen as "religious". How can you possibly argue against the importance of a 30 to 40 goal a season striker?
The way I look at it is does this type of striker actually exist in the most successful teams? The answer is usually, no, not really. Who is that CF for Pool? For City this year? For United 2008 and the 3 CL finals and 3 Leagues. Was the CF key in finishing for Madrid in their 4 CL in 5 years.
Seems to me like as obvious the role of a top CF is, the reality of success comes from just scoring goals. Doesn't really matter from where they come. Teams that focus on supplying their elite CF tend to actually score less as a whole and also become predictable, like us during Ruud and after.
Sancho over Grealish. I’d be concerned about Grealish’s health long term and the reasons he missed the rest of the season. This shin injury, which Villa have been very vague about, was also the reason he missed 15 games in 2019. This could be a long-term degenerative issue.
False evidence?
He lashed out in media over it before the season even started and played awful.
He is a professional Footballer not a clothing salesman.
If he chooses to cheat on his pregnant partner, that's on him and if he cannot separate personal and outside of football matters over his paid profession, than it IS all on him sulking, because i'm sure he isn't to blame for any of it.
Watch his attitude on the pitch and body language, it's 100% different and the only time, it's changed since then, was after lockdown last season, but this season sadly, he was poor and his body language changed again. (I believe again, to other off the pitch issues at home).
The guy is just the same sadly as Pogba and the team cannot afford to carry one, let alone 2 people, who are not mentally strong enough, to focus on there Job.
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