Is Mata past his best?

[anant]

Mata, like every player out there has his weaknesses and strengths. Play him in the kind of role he was playing in the 1st few games- where he was using his brains and ghosting past the opposition defences -and he'd be fantastic (even though statistically he wasn't very good), but if you make him do the central midfielder's job with the sole motive of circulating the ball from side to side, we'd be just wasting his talent. That's the job Herrera or Matic should've been doing.

Like yesterday, in the second half, with the Huddersfield defence sitting deep, he was the guy who I'd have placed the most trust on to unlock their defence. Lingard, Martial and Rashford are too pace based players who can send the opposition on back foot further and useful on counters but I won't say they can create chances that Mata can. Mkhi is a mixture of Mata kind of player and the pace based players but he doesn't quite have the vision or technique that Juan has. I won't mind us upgrading on Mata if we can find a player of similar ilk (intelligent and technically beautiful) but would like to keep him as a squad player as his main strengths won't decline with age like it did with guys like Rooney

 

[MiceOnMeth]

I've never taken to Mata if im honest, nice guy with good stats but not enough for where we want to be.

 

[Mr.Plow]

He's been very poor this season by his own standards. Too early to say if it's loss of form or genuine decline.

 

[Judas]

He doesn't come close to doing the job we want of him anymore, hasn't for at least a season. He did alright with us, but I'd feel no great sadness if we got rid and replaced him with someone superior.

 

[kps88]

His signing at the time was bizarre and a proper panic buy. He didn't fit in at all with Moyes' tactics, who was sweet on Rooney at the time. I think he played wide right of a four man midfield with us in his first season.

Coming back to current day, he would usually go through large periods of games doing nothing special and playing it safe, but would occasionally chip in with a key pass or goal. Lately he's lost those moments of genius, so he's a bit of a nothing player. You can usually predict what he's going to do every time he gets the ball.

 

[RedSky]

At this point I actually think Fellaini as 10 suits our style more than Mata.

That's one of the most depressing sentences i've ever read on here.

 

[sullydnl]

Yesterday's performance didn't bother me that much as the entire team was struggling. Even his mistake came from the sort of poor first touch we rarely see from him, in a deep position he was forced to drop to due to our midfield struggling generally.

However, he certainly hasn't been producing enough this season. Whether that's down to form or down to having declined even since last year I'm not sure. It has to change though as without his usual consistent stream of productivity......

 

[Marcky411]

Poor Mata, is the person to loose possession for the first goal and now a thread about Mata. Was bought to try and solve some problems in a non functioning team. As has been pointed out he is not the quickest and strongest player we have, I think he is our smallest player, yet continually played on the right wing. Yesterday against Huddersfield, Mata on the wing, Lingard as our nr.10 (go figure). His support on the right is Valencia, a player that doesn't even try to take on a defender. Stops the flow of play and ends up passing the ball back. Mata needs players around him he can play off, players with movement and that he can play one-two's with, not our static team that stand still and only move when they get the ball. I see a lot saying we should've got Griezmann, we thought we were getting that with Miki and has anyone been watching Giezmann this season, not quite the player they had last season. I am sure that if we sold Mata to City you would see the real Mata shine and then be very discouraged questioning why he couldn't play like that at United.

 

[NoLogo]

He never reached his best at United.

This unfortunately. He never played at the level for us he played for Chelsea for some time. I like him a lot but I don't think he ever has been a top player for us or pulling the strings in a way I would have hoped he could.

 

[Marcky411]

That's one of the most depressing sentences i've ever read on here.

I fully agree with you but that is what Mou has created, under LvG we were criticized for playing hoofball with Fellaini as our plan B. That has changed under Mourinho, it has become plan A with all the giants he has bought.

 

[M Bison]

Absolutely yes. Jose did us over when Moyes signed him, was a poor signing at the time and also not what was needed. An “any-port-in-the-storm” signing by Moyes.

 

[Mockney]

His time here has been a shambles imo and I feel very sorry for him.

That’s just nonsense. By most metrics he’s had a perfectly decent career here. He’s played import roles in Cup Finals and scored more goals than he did at Chelsea FFS.

Most of this thread is now the standard “I’ve wanted to spout a bunch of OTT agenda bollocks for ages but he hasn’t had a bad enough game to allow me to without looking like a dick” piff.

 

[Dante]

Yes, he probably is. He's one of a number of United players who can be World Class if the team is built around him. Unfortunately, we can't build a separate team for every individual that applies to.

 

[OoopsMisclick]

The system doesn't favor him. Better player than lingard but not effective in a mourinho system.

We have no real right winger. That's one of the bigger problems

 

[Yagami]

One bad game and the pitchforks are out in force. The players and the team were on a roll prior to Liverpool game. I blame international break and injuries.

It isn't "one bad game", though. I was against signing him from Chelsea.

He's got great movement, a lovely first touch, works hard defensively and is a lovely bloke but he lacks a lot of the required skills to be a top attacker. He can't dribble, he's not good at withstanding players pressing due to his physique, when he has the ball he's very reluctant to play killer passes and when he does they're usually poorly weighted. He plays well when the team does but doesn't step up when we're in trouble and, in my opinion, we have too many of these players. A lot of these reasons are why I didn't want Mkhi and don't want Ozil, too.

 

[Castia]

He’s a decent player being played completely out of position. He’s not a right sided winger, he’s got few attributes to even play that role and he’s always useless yet still gets picked.

At some point you have to wonder why the feck with persist with a #10 style playmaker with no pace out on the wing it’s completely counter productive to the way we play. Rashford can easily play there and we’ve yet to see a Martial- Lukaku- Rashford which is also mind boggling considering all 3 have performed well this season.

 

[Ace of Spades]

This has been his worst start, but I think I would keep him ahead of Mkhitaryan and Lingard. That is not saying much, but we can't get rid of all of them in one window, can we?

 

[Needham]

I'll throw Herrera into the mix. The two together, even with Matic, are easily nullified and outplayed. They need to be at their absolute best to hope to compete with Spurs or City's mids.

 

[TMDaines]

It’s a self fulfilling prophecy that Mata is past his best when we purchase him and spend three years really playing everyone but him in his preferred position. Both Mkhi and Lingard are better wide, yet we prioritise them centrally and put Mata on the right. We gave Rooney more than enough rope to hang himself in that position too in hist last couple of seasons.

The story of United the last five years is that its teams are far less than the sum of their parts.

 

[Yagami]

I'll throw Herrera into the mix. The two together, even with Matic, are easily nullified and outplayed. They need to be at their absolute best to hope to compete with Spurs or City's mids.

I think if we just swapped Herrera and Matic we'd benefit a lot. Let Herrera sit deep as that's where he's played his best stuff for us and let Matic push up. Matic's shielding of the ball, nice passing and ball carrying skills are all better than Herrera's and would help us a lot in attack. I think he'd be a good box to box player.

 

[GrandJury]

He hasn't been close to the best Chelsea got.

 

[Needham]

I think if we just swapped Herrera and Matic we'd benefit a lot. Let Herrera sit deep as that's where he's played his best stuff for us and let Matic push up. Matic's shielding of the ball, nice passing and ball carrying skills are all better than Herrera's and would help us a lot in attack. I think he'd be a good box to box player.

That sounds reasonable but is this really a question of permutations or the fact that Herrera and Mata are nowhere near say Dembele and Eriksen, and Winks and Alli even?

 

[Yagami]

That sounds reasonable but is this really a question of permutations or the fact that Herrera and Mata are nowhere near say Dembele and Eriksen, and Winks and Alli even?

I'd say they're better than Winks (seemingly has good potential) and Alli (as midfielders - in attack he's better than most of what we have) but Dembele and Eriksen are a lot better than both. I think if we swapped we'd instantly improve and I think I'd have us down as title contenders.

 

[Bobski]

Yes, he probably is. He's one of a number of United players who can be World Class if the team is built around him. Unfortunately, we can't build a separate team for every individual that applies to.

Building a team around Mata would be like admitting the height of your ambitions was to finish 4th-6th and pick up a cup. He can not be a key player on an elite team.

 

[Jeffthered]

Course he has. Has had a few terrific moments for us, and many very decent games. But that is simply not enough.

And he is nowhere near the type and level of player we need in a front three. Back to Valencia I think, be perfect for him.

 

[coolredwine]

He's been as ineffective as Lingard this season especially on the end product side, which we can't afford to be lacking if we want to be at the top. He always had his physical disadvantages of being short and weak and slow but made up for them with vision and technique but now he seems to lack even those and his stamina has gone so he becomes an auto-substitution every game. I think he's on the decline and his peak was a while ago. This could be a severe decline when you consider his starting physical point was already disadvantaged. We need to learn from Rooney and replace him with a younger player reaching their peak. Such a shame we didn't get Griezmann--the gulf between them just isn't funny. Mata might be adorable, and he's been good for us, but you can't fight time and we need to fight for the title. I'd be surprised if this isn't his last season for us.

fwiw, Mata needs to be closer to the goal for him to provide any kind of bite in the team. As it stands, he plays far away and is much closer to the middle, thus negating his influence even before the match starts.

 

[Cyanide]

Nice lad likeable person but doesn't have the quality now so yes hes past his best for me and as another person said here he never had the quality to win the title in England.

 

[kouroux]

This unfortunately. He never played at the level for us he played for Chelsea for some time. I like him a lot but I don't think he ever has been a top player for us or pulling the strings in a way I would have hoped he could.

It's frustrating when he was such a poison at Chelsea. I used to fear him.

 

[Robaldo]

Personally, I think he's always been massively overrated. There's this perception that he's a creative player, which stems from the fact that he makes the odd nice touch - but at the pace he moves at it'd be a bit terrible if he didn't.

However, his stats since joining us suggest not - he's never managed more than seven league assist for us in a season, and his goal return in is fine but not remarkable.

He'll look incredible in the early rounds of the League Cup and third round of the FA Cup but largely looks mediocre against any top level opponents, in my view anyway.

Didn't want him when Moyes signed him and have never thought of him as a starter in the time he's been here.

 

[Samid]

Luxury player.

 

[SuperiorXI]

I thought he peaked in that Chelsea side. These days he can't even last 90 minutes and I'm not really sure what it is he does. Doesn't score, doesn't assist.

 

[Nytram Shakes]

i just think he is adapting to be a Mourinho style player, he is far more defensive minded then i have ever seen him.

he used to be labled as a luxory player that a team had to carry, he isnt like that any more, which is a good thing, but unfortunately he seems to have sacrificed some of his creativity in order to do this.

but that wide right position is still a major issue for us, has been 4 quite a few years now.

 

[Pete Dahh Sneak]

Hazard’s chemistry with Mata hasn’t been replicated with another player since. It’s been part of our problem. Hated Jose for outing Mata and picking Oscar over him. Sad to see he’s gotten to this level, but even Chelsea fans knew he wasn’t a winger and had to be close to goal in order to achieve his potential.

 

[harms]

Absolutely past his best as he never reached the same heights with us that he did with Chelsea. Still an important squad player though. I remember how afraid of him I was every time we played Chelsea, he always delivered.

 

[Hugh Jass]

The player playing for the other team gets hyped up because we don't scrutinize other teams like we do our own (United). It is not that Mata suddenly became bad when he joined United from Chelsea, it is just he was hyped up to be what he is not. All you see when you watch players in other teams is the good things they do. All you see is the assists and goals at the end of the match. You don't see all the times that player lost the ball or gave a bad pass or missed a chance. But when you are watching United, you do.

The pattern is the same. Schinderlin, Depay, Schwiensteiger, Pogba, Mkhi-T etc. they all got hyped up when playing for the teams they played for before they joined united. People only saw the good things on youtube etc. The reality is they are not as good as were made out to be.

 

[kundalini]

His peak was at Chelsea a long time ago, when the team structure was ideal for him; that has never been true at United. His productivity has been very ordinary here, some seasons he scores but barely creates, other seasons fewer goals but more chances created.

With Mata on the pitch we have scored 8 goals in 497 mins in the PL this season. Without him 14 goals in 313 mins. He sat on the bench against Liverpool.

 

[Infra-red]

His best was 2011-13. He was among the 2 or 3 best players in the league in that period. He's never come close to replicating that form in a United shirt.

 

[Pete Dahh Sneak]

The player playing for the other team gets hyped up because we don't scrutinize other teams like we do our own (United). It is not that Mata suddenly became bad when he joined United from Chelsea, it is just he was hyped up to be what he is not. All you see when you watch players in other teams is the good things they do. All you see is the assists and goals at the end of the match. You don't see all the times that player lost the ball or gave a bad pass or missed a chance. But when you are watching United, you do.

The pattern is the same. Schinderlin, Depay, Schwiensteiger, Pogba, Mkhi-T etc. they all got hyped up when playing for the teams they played for before they joined united. People only saw the good things on youtube etc. The reality is they are not as good as were made out to be.

I couldn’t disagree more. The guy was so ahead of everyone else footballing wise on Chelsea, I was sure he was going to have a similar effect at United. But he never really had the opportunity to play #10 consistently since he moved? I’m not sure. But he was productive at Chelsea cutting in from the LW and having free roam, and then reaching the ridiculous numbers of 20g/35a as the 10. He wasn’t even a strict around the box type of player - he’d come back between Lampard and Ramires/Mikel to pick up the ball and start the foreward movement.

 

[breakout67]

He's been in the team of year, was Chelsea's player of the year twice, won loads of trophies, played for Span 40 times. Not as slick as some 10s, but always decisive in the final third. Past his very best, but of course he could have been in a team that won the league. Bad game today, follows that he must be shit, and must have always been shit.

I never once said Mata is a shit player. He has been a good player for a long time. But the evidence is clear that as a no.10 he is not suited to this league.

I would say that players like Silva and Isco are just plain better than him (and this is not a dig because they are both fantastic players) because they can have the same influence in the final third but also give solidity to the midfield.

 

[MeUnited]

Come on people open your eyes. It's admittedly easy to be fooled by Mata because his technique is sublime but he is such an ineffective football. I have never in all my years watching football seen such a cowardly attacking player. 95% of his passes are sideways or backwards. I don't think I've ever seen him beat a player one on one in the 4 1/2 years he has played for this club. He is one of the weakest, slowest players in the PL.

Sometimes, it's not about technical ability. This is PL football not Futsal. Look at Delli Alli. I wouldn't say he has amazing technique or is particularly easy on the eye but he is 6"3, a physical monster who plays in a positive, direct fashion and makes things happen. Jose wasn't fooled by Mata at Chelsea and I really can't understand why he is carrying on this pretence that he rates him here at OT. Hopefully him being hooked at HT yesterday shows Jose is losing patience

Man City beg to differ. De Bruyne, David Silva? Fool.