Exactly. The dominant strikers in the 00s weren’t racking up the 40/50/60 goal seasons Suarez, Mbappe, Lewa, Benz, Messi, Ronaldo have made the norm in the modern era.
Is Mbappe the best french player ever?
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Platini carried his team to the 84' Euro Championship (I think it was something insane like 9 goals in 5 matches, including 2 hat tricks) the same way Maradona carried Argentina in the 86' World Cup.
Add that to his consistency at club level and that is why Platini is currently miles ahead.
Mbappe can get there, mind you.
Add that to his consistency at club level and that is why Platini is currently miles ahead.
Mbappe can get there, mind you.
David Bellion must have been a cricketer.
You can take into account the goals against elite clubs only if you want to, it'll still tilt in Mbappé's favor.
While I do agree Henry was more well-rounded (and overall a better player) and that it was harder to score back then, saying that he could do everything Mbappé does and more is untrue. Mbappé's execution is faster than Henry's for exemple (Henry was far taller). Henry was fast, very fast, but he reached Mbappe's level in terms of sheer acceleration and step frequency (but prime Henry was better from a technical standpoint). Also, defenders are way faster nowadays.
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Platini is at minute, regardless of what his fifa dealings are, imo on saying that Fontaine must be a shout at this moment, not saying it won't be mpappe in future
way faster? how? better technically on average i can buy, but the typical defender didn't suddenly become much better athletically in only 20 years
And it wasn't just the goals or sublime quality of them! He was the central conduit to the whole way France were playing in that tournament: passing, tempo, movements. It's the best tournament a player has had in a major, but because it's not the World Cup, it obviously can't be ranked higher than the bigger tournament, which is why we always hear about the exploits of Maradona, Pele, Ronaldo and Cruyff whilst Platini's comic book performance is barely a footnote, which is a great shame.Two hat tricks in the group stage, winner in the semi final (last minute of ET) and then the opening goal in the final. fecking hell
I don't think people realize what a special, special player Mbappe is yet.
The closest thing to R9 we have seen.
Obviously not. But in this era of G/A obsession he and Haaland will be considered by some nupties as the two greatest footballers to ever exist. Probably.
re. Henry vs Mbappe, I don't think that's a closed debate or an easy win for Henry, not even close.
Henry's performances, his best ones, were on a lower stage than Mbappe's have been. Mbappe has proven to be a true big game player; Henry was dogged with 'bottler' tags for practically his whole career. When the stage was massive and all eyes were on Henry, he rarely gave his best performances, certainly not like Mbappe has, where the latter seems to thrive in the spotlight and wants the ball as much as possible. Mbappe also plays the big games with a smile on his face and is with the audience in terms of the melodrama; Henry played most big games as if he knew it was defining him and his career, with a grimace and a discomfort.
And when I say 'big games' we're talking CL and country, not domestic football, where Henry was almost peerless and was in his element, which, ironically, had more people question why it wasn't transferable.
Lastly, Mbappe doesn't defer to anyone; even if he had fielded with a Zidane or Platini, he would have the ego to believe he was on par (or better) than them. Henry's deferential nature to Zidane had him play as a supporting member rather than believing he could claim the centre stage. Mbappe would be vying for that centre stage, not wilting for another in it. These things are huge at the level we're talking about.
As players, Henry was at a higher technical level than Mbappe, but he wasn't more effective. Again, at the highest levels, not domestic football, where Henry's goal and assist ratios were extraordinary. Head-to-head, Henry is not getting in a France team over Mbappe because the latter is more decisive and more likely to be the player who turns the game.
To be able to say this of a 23-year old over a player who has a full body of work says a lot, too. Mbappe has played two World Cups and has looked like he is in element, twice. It's not a coincidence; he clearly has the it factor and it's injury that will curtail him, not nerves or fear of any game or opponent. Domestically, Mbappe can catch Henry, on higher levels, he has already surpassed him.
When it comes to 'ever' he's levels below Platini at the moment and will have to really turn godly to peer with him, let alone surpass him. He's also got a way to go to be as consummate as Zidane and will have to become the main man at his club(s) and country (he's certainly as important for his nation as Zidane was, but needs longevity to par him) to sit alongside him. There isn't really another French attacker he hasn't hopped over by now, so he is certainly the player who has it in him to go to the very top, if fitness and will to improve is married to sublime football from here to the end of his 20's, at least. I don't think it'd be a surprise if he ended up being the #1 should stars align for him, it's not something that's risible as he has the ability, ego and confidence to go all the way to the top.
Henry's performances, his best ones, were on a lower stage than Mbappe's have been. Mbappe has proven to be a true big game player; Henry was dogged with 'bottler' tags for practically his whole career. When the stage was massive and all eyes were on Henry, he rarely gave his best performances, certainly not like Mbappe has, where the latter seems to thrive in the spotlight and wants the ball as much as possible. Mbappe also plays the big games with a smile on his face and is with the audience in terms of the melodrama; Henry played most big games as if he knew it was defining him and his career, with a grimace and a discomfort.
And when I say 'big games' we're talking CL and country, not domestic football, where Henry was almost peerless and was in his element, which, ironically, had more people question why it wasn't transferable.
Lastly, Mbappe doesn't defer to anyone; even if he had fielded with a Zidane or Platini, he would have the ego to believe he was on par (or better) than them. Henry's deferential nature to Zidane had him play as a supporting member rather than believing he could claim the centre stage. Mbappe would be vying for that centre stage, not wilting for another in it. These things are huge at the level we're talking about.
As players, Henry was at a higher technical level than Mbappe, but he wasn't more effective. Again, at the highest levels, not domestic football, where Henry's goal and assist ratios were extraordinary. Head-to-head, Henry is not getting in a France team over Mbappe because the latter is more decisive and more likely to be the player who turns the game.
To be able to say this of a 23-year old over a player who has a full body of work says a lot, too. Mbappe has played two World Cups and has looked like he is in element, twice. It's not a coincidence; he clearly has the it factor and it's injury that will curtail him, not nerves or fear of any game or opponent. Domestically, Mbappe can catch Henry, on higher levels, he has already surpassed him.
When it comes to 'ever' he's levels below Platini at the moment and will have to really turn godly to peer with him, let alone surpass him. He's also got a way to go to be as consummate as Zidane and will have to become the main man at his club(s) and country (he's certainly as important for his nation as Zidane was, but needs longevity to par him) to sit alongside him. There isn't really another French attacker he hasn't hopped over by now, so he is certainly the player who has it in him to go to the very top, if fitness and will to improve is married to sublime football from here to the end of his 20's, at least. I don't think it'd be a surprise if he ended up being the #1 should stars align for him, it's not something that's risible as he has the ability, ego and confidence to go all the way to the top.
Platini, Henry, Benzema, Tigana, Zidane, Fontaine, Kopa, Cantona, Deschamps, Desailly, Viera, Blanc and a fair few others are srtill ahead of him. Maybe in a few years but he has quite a few to overtake ahead of him.
I think he is special and I do think he is the closest thing to R9 we have seen(not as a talented but still) but he is not as of yet better than Benzema, I mean he hasn’t even had a year yet where he is the best player in the world, he’s been up there or there abouts but even in his own team you have Neymar whos probably outperformed this season.
They already do that with Cristiano so don’t see why if Mbappe continues this way there won’t be arguments, he’s game isn’t any less rounded than Cristiano.
All this just proves to me Messi is the true outlier, Haaland and Mbappe may get close to CR7 in some respects (stats) but they’ll never ever be able to simultaneously be a top playmaker and scorer at the same time, Haaland especially is nothing more than an elite elite poacher.
Nowhere close. He need to surpass Benzema first, let alone Zidane and Platini.
Better than Henry and Zidane for me, though less romantically brilliant to watch than the latter. Can't imagine going to the cinema to watch a 90 minute of Mbappe video (great movie by the way, if you haven't seen it, the one with the Mogwai soundtrack).
Everything I've read does suggest Platini was pretty damn great, though, so I assume it's still him but Mbappe will eventually pass him.
Everything I've read does suggest Platini was pretty damn great, though, so I assume it's still him but Mbappe will eventually pass him.
The three best French players are those who, at the peak of their powers, masterminded the operation of their entire teams.
- 1. Michel Platini: the crown jewel, will probably never be surpassed
- 2. Zinédine Zidane: the contender who fell short of the summit
- 3. Raymond Kopa: the pioneer, who set the stage for future aspirants
The answer will show your age
M’Bappe is a better manager than Poch
I couldn’t agree more with everything you said. It was perfectly in line with my thinking as well.
Jesus Christ.
Lineker and Ferdinand called him a hybrid of R9 and Henry.
Can't help but agree. He's absolutely phenomenal and you can clearly see how frightened defenses are of him.
Can't help but agree. He's absolutely phenomenal and you can clearly see how frightened defenses are of him.
Massive difference between who is more talented vs better career.
Mbappe is easily more talented. Henry obviously had a better career.
He's very quick and makes intelligent direct runs which often grant him time and space for relatively easy finishes
Not sure the rest of his game is all that but I guess it doesn't need to be. He's highly effective
Not sure the rest of his game is all that but I guess it doesn't need to be. He's highly effective
Well he is only 23 (24 next month), but never even get into top 3 of Ballon D'or, so apparently he cannot be compared with past great yet.
But if you ask me where he is at now:
Tier 1: Platini, Zidane
Tier 2: Kopa
Tier 3: Henry, Benzema, Fontaine, Tresor, Giresse, Papin, Cantona, Deschamps, Mbappe
Tier 4: Tigana, Griezmann, Blanc, Ribery, Desaily, Vieira, Thuram
He is currently probably in near end of tier 3. In future he has chance to challenge Zidane or even Platini at tier 1.
To give better perspective of best player rankling (individual honours) in their respective era,
In terms of Ballon D'or ranking:
1. Platini (winner x3, 3rd x2)
2. Kopa (winner x1, 2nd x1, 3rd x2)
3. Zidane (winner x1, 2nd x1, 3rd x1)
4. Papin (winner x1)
5. Benzema (winner x1)
6. Henry (2nd x1, 3rd x1)
7. Tigana (2nd x1)
8. Giresse (2nd x1)
9. Griezmann (3rd x2)
10. Fontaine (3rd x1)
11. Cantona (3rd x1)
12. Ribery (3rd x1)
In terms of French player of the year ranking:
(only from 1996 onwards, french players oversea were eligible, hence the likes of Platini, Cantona could have win a few more )
1.Henry (5 times)
2. Benzema (4 times)
3. Giresse (3 times)
4. Ribery (3 times)
5. Platini (2 times) (could have been 6 times)
Papin (2 times)
Zidane (2 times)
Mbappe (2 times)
In terms of team trophies:
1. Deschamps (WC x1, Euro x1, CL x2, trophies x16)
2. Zidane (WC x1, Euro x1, CLx1, trophies x15)
3. Henry (WC x1, Euro x1, CLx1, trophies x18)
4. Vieira (WC x1, Euro x1, trophies x22)
5. Thuram (WC x1, Euro x1, trophies x12)
6. Blanc (WC x1, Euro x1, trophies x8)
7. Kante (WC x1, CL x1, trophies x10)
6. Benzema (CL x5, trophies x31)
7. Platini (Euro x1, CL x1, trophies x12)
8. Kopa (CL x3, trohies x11)
9. Mbappe (WC x1, trophies x14)
10. Pogba (WC x1, trophées x12)
11. Griezmann (WC x1, trophies x7)
12. Ribery (CL x1, trophies x25)
13. Papin (CL x1, trophies x13)
In terms of career goals:
1. Benzema 447
2. Henry 417
3. Platini 353
4. Papin 346
5. Fontaine 288
6. Griezman 276
7. Mbappe 251
I think its just matter of time, in another 7-8 years, he could be up there with the very best.
Least to say I think he is destined to be all time top goalscorer in France and as French player.
Staying at PSG I can see him winning as many team trophies as Benzema (who is on 31). But whether he will have more Ballon D'ors, really depends on whether he could win a few more WC/Euro/CL in future. He has all the support/set up to win all these big trophies though, as he is playing as tailsman for a top country and top football club, and so he will be always in contention for those.
But if you ask me where he is at now:
Tier 1: Platini, Zidane
Tier 2: Kopa
Tier 3: Henry, Benzema, Fontaine, Tresor, Giresse, Papin, Cantona, Deschamps, Mbappe
Tier 4: Tigana, Griezmann, Blanc, Ribery, Desaily, Vieira, Thuram
He is currently probably in near end of tier 3. In future he has chance to challenge Zidane or even Platini at tier 1.
To give better perspective of best player rankling (individual honours) in their respective era,
In terms of Ballon D'or ranking:
1. Platini (winner x3, 3rd x2)
2. Kopa (winner x1, 2nd x1, 3rd x2)
3. Zidane (winner x1, 2nd x1, 3rd x1)
4. Papin (winner x1)
5. Benzema (winner x1)
6. Henry (2nd x1, 3rd x1)
7. Tigana (2nd x1)
8. Giresse (2nd x1)
9. Griezmann (3rd x2)
10. Fontaine (3rd x1)
11. Cantona (3rd x1)
12. Ribery (3rd x1)
In terms of French player of the year ranking:
(only from 1996 onwards, french players oversea were eligible, hence the likes of Platini, Cantona could have win a few more )
1.Henry (5 times)
2. Benzema (4 times)
3. Giresse (3 times)
4. Ribery (3 times)
5. Platini (2 times) (could have been 6 times)
Papin (2 times)
Zidane (2 times)
Mbappe (2 times)
In terms of team trophies:
1. Deschamps (WC x1, Euro x1, CL x2, trophies x16)
2. Zidane (WC x1, Euro x1, CLx1, trophies x15)
3. Henry (WC x1, Euro x1, CLx1, trophies x18)
4. Vieira (WC x1, Euro x1, trophies x22)
5. Thuram (WC x1, Euro x1, trophies x12)
6. Blanc (WC x1, Euro x1, trophies x8)
7. Kante (WC x1, CL x1, trophies x10)
6. Benzema (CL x5, trophies x31)
7. Platini (Euro x1, CL x1, trophies x12)
8. Kopa (CL x3, trohies x11)
9. Mbappe (WC x1, trophies x14)
10. Pogba (WC x1, trophées x12)
11. Griezmann (WC x1, trophies x7)
12. Ribery (CL x1, trophies x25)
13. Papin (CL x1, trophies x13)
In terms of career goals:
1. Benzema 447
2. Henry 417
3. Platini 353
4. Papin 346
5. Fontaine 288
6. Griezman 276
7. Mbappe 251
I think its just matter of time, in another 7-8 years, he could be up there with the very best.
Least to say I think he is destined to be all time top goalscorer in France and as French player.
Staying at PSG I can see him winning as many team trophies as Benzema (who is on 31). But whether he will have more Ballon D'ors, really depends on whether he could win a few more WC/Euro/CL in future. He has all the support/set up to win all these big trophies though, as he is playing as tailsman for a top country and top football club, and so he will be always in contention for those.
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Always hard to play defensive players as high as creative or goalscoring players.
That france backline is legendary.
For France? I don't agree Mbappe was overall the better player but for the NT he might just be.
Henry had a comparatively slow start. I’m comparing the peak few years of Henry to Mbappe right now. Henry, in his best period, was extremely good - not a semi god but close to that.
Henry was very quick but it might be the case that Mbappe is even quicker, especially off the mark. And Mbappe has very good numbers - yes he is ahead of where Henry was at the same age I’d say.
Hey Siri, please define recency bias
He’s not even the best player on the current French national team.
What’s so funny? He’s spot on, he is the closest to Ronaldo. Just watch France play in the World Cup. The crowd lights up every time he gets the ball with his pace on the ball, he’s electric. It’s been very like Ronaldo in 1998 so far.
Also if Mbappé is only potentially a few weeks away from being elevated to another category of player. If he wins two World Cups as France’s main attacking star at only 23 then that’s all-timer stuff.
I fully agree with your description, especially the mental aspect. He believes and wants to be the best, I wouldn't bet against him for anything.
Perhaps this is news to you but Benzema just won the Ballon d’Or.
What a story, Mark.
Mbappé is better than Benzema and Benzema isn’t on the team currently. I don’t care about Ballon d’Ors either.
Or common sense. Apparently.
You can think Benzema is better, you’d be wrong IMO but you can think it. No need to talk about common sense though. Ballon d’Or doesn’t mean a player is the best in the world, it’s just a sign of an attacking player that was the best player in the team that accomplished the most over a season. And Benzema was fantastic and fully deserving, I’m not picking him over Mbappé though if I can only have one or the other.
The Ballon d'Or doesn't tell you who is the better player, it's not what the award determines.