Is Michel Platini the most disregarded of the true greats?

[NewGlory]

I don't know anyone who is aware of Platini who also underrates him as a footballer. He stands in a lot of all time XI squads and the legend of his exploits in 1982, 1984 and 1986 are well known and often told.

His post-playing career has taken a reputational hit, however.

I too hate Platini past his playing career, but before we go too far on that... I believe Messi and Ronaldo are both convicted tax dodgers, which is legal fraud? Not to mention, CR7 has been accused of much worse things (settled out of the court). And who knows what Messi or Cristiano will do, if past their footballing career either of them become UEFA presidents? I am not sure they will be saints.

This is in no way is an attempt to excuse the horror that Platini was at FIFA/EUFA, but a call to separate human virtues from footballing talent, otherwise - we will run short of footballers who are all-around saints and angels.

 

[Raees]

Are you nuts? That France team was class! Platini, Tigana, Giresse, Fernandez…or Brazil with Zico, Socrates, Falcao, Cerezo…you can hardly find a better midfield quartet in the decades to follow. And it’s not like they were dull, functional units! It definitely wasn’t a golden era for attackers, but Platini in Euro ‘84 surely ranks as one of the most incredible achievements you’ve seen…

One of the most bonkers statements I have seen (the one you responded to). In addition to the players you have listed, the sheer defensive talent in the 80's was breathtaking. IMO the 60's and 80's was probably the most stacked talent wise, historically speaking.

 

[That_Bloke]

No Zidane was not good vs Portugal or Italy. He was great vs Brazil and good vs Spain. That's it.

Not really.

He scored the pen and only goal of a very tight game against Portugal, even if he didn't have a great second half. He was fantastic against Italy, Buffon himself said that Zidane was destroying them until he got sent off, they were on the ropes in ET. He was kicked by the Italians all over the pitch during that match, and I partly blame the ref for not booking some of the defenders and calm down the game. I'm convinced, although it's only my opinion, that France would've won that game if he didn't lose his composure.

 

[That_Bloke]

One of the most bonkers statements I have seen (the one you responded to). In addition to the players you have listed, the sheer defensive talent in the 80's was breathtaking. IMO the 60's and 80's was probably the most stacked talent wise, historically speaking.

The 70's and 90's as well. In fact, each decade had its share of world class players. I agree with what you said though. The casual dismissal of the previous eras is absolutely astounding and reveals a profound lack of football knowledge.

 

[Gehrman]

I can remember growing up and hearing about Platini, but for the young generation now they probably just think of him as the corrupt fifa guy. One of the best passsers ever and scored a lot for a midfielder on the thoughest league in the world.

 

[mshnsh]

Not really.

He scored the pen and only goal of a very tight game against Portugal, even if he didn't have a great second half. He was fantastic against Italy, Buffon himself said that Zidane was destroying them until he got sent off, they were on the ropes in ET. He was kicked by the Italians all over the pitch during that match, and I partly blame the ref for not booking some of the defenders and calm down the game. I'm convinced, although it's only my opinion, that France would've won that game if he didn't lose his composure.

He was by no means "fantastic vs Italy".
He did not stand out at all vs Portugal.
His only truly great performance was vs Brazil. Period.

 

[That_Bloke]

He was by no means "fantastic vs Italy".
He did not stand out at all vs Portugal.
His only truly great performance was vs Brazil. Period.

Alright, mate. If you say so.

 

[Gio]

I don't think he gets dismissed by anyone who knows about his career or who watched him at the time. Even at the very basic stats level, he smashes it out of the park with his 10 seasons of hitting 25 goals or more, never mind his ridiculous 9 in 5 in the summer of 1984. People will speak to what they now and it's only time that means he isn't part of the conversation. That applies to everyone from that era and earlier - often Muller gets forgotten about for his goals, or Puskas for his goals and creativity - in favour of what has come since.

Platini wasn't the flashiest of the higher rated 10's. For those not interested enough to watch full games or all-touch match compilations, but instead are judging great players from highlight and goal compilations, he might not catch the eye in the same way as the better dribblers, or those with the eye for the consistently spectacular goals can. Not that you couldn't make a really impressive highlight for him, especially regarding passing, but your average one that doesn't get too in depth might not seem as impressive as one for maradona, Zico, Cruyff Zidane etc. Or even quite a few other gifted attacking midfielder/10s that had much worse careers. That coudl result in a decline in interest among younger fans with only a casual interest in football history, which will probably be the majority.

It's easier to make players like Michael Laudrup or Hagi look more spectacular than Platini in the highlight medium, it's only when watching more extensively do you see the flaws that those players had in comparison that lead them to struggle at times during their careers, or indeed fail miserably at actually replacing Platini in Laudrup's case.

incidentally if zidane had come along slightly earlier and been picked to directly replace Platini during 3 foreigner era, i think there would be a very high chance he'd have been moved on after a couple of seasons and considered a low output failure. Talk about a tough time to move to a club as an attacking midfielder.

Important point. He didn't have Zico's feet or Zidane's elegance, and was physically unremarkable. A quick Youtube compliation won't show much (relatively speaking) apart from that 'goal' against Argentinos Juniors. Most of his goals were about perfect timing and movement, which goes next to leadership and influence in the hard-to-showcase category. As did that instinctive ability to float between attack and midfield depending on where he was most needed. His brilliance was shown by deciding dreary Serie A games with little goalmouth action before he ghosts into the box to make it 1-0. Rinse and repeat next Sunday.

The problem he has is that he was the best player in the world prior to Maradona. Maradona, like Messi and Ronaldo, made his peers and others he preceded him look relatively average. Platini had the misfortune of meeting him at the tail end of his career, so the image of Maradona being definitively better than Platini was formed. Particularly as a lot of what people know about that period comes from the media and magazines. He wasn't the most flashy player, so with not as much media coverage, for the average football fan, the idea of him is not as great as his performances show he was.

He also had the misfortune of not winning a world cup. Unlike Cruyff who reached the final, Platini never did. Pre-2000 world cups were how the media narrated greatness of players. His Euro's performance largely gets swept under the rug due to this. It's the reason why I dislike the discussion of world cups to decipher legacy. It made some sense in the 70's , 80's and 90's because the coverage of the sport was not as good as it is today. Leagues were not as accessible and statistics and highlights were not as prevalent. This meant that it was difficult to actually detail how good a player was and fans had to rely heavily on the media to get a clear picture of what was going on. This meant, despite it only being a 4 week tournament, players who justified the hype during these periods could be overglorified, while others who didn't, for various reasons including injury would be wrongfully judged.

I honestly believe Di Stefano also falls into that category. Underrated due to not having a meaningful impact in a world cup despite their club careers being far superior to some of the people considered better than them.

True. A lot of Euro '84 wasn't even shown live in the UK as none of the home nations qualified. Even Platini's finest hour didn't get the audience here it should have done.

I like your Di Stefano comparison. There are some further parallels with Platini as they both dropped deep to kick-start moves, boasted great passing and vision, drove forward to score heavily and consistently decided big games. To the detriment of their legacy, neither pass the eye test on first glance and their time at the top was curtailed by a GOAT in Pele / Maradona.

 

[SilentStrike]

I've pretty much said the same thing on another United forum. Zidane has somehow become a better player since retirement. Go back to 2006 (when he retired) and Maradona and Pele were held up as the ultimate 2; you then had a plethora of players who could all be in the 3 - 10 spots if you were making a top 10 list, though Cruyff was the one most generally accepted as the "best of the rest". Platini was right up there too, along with Best, Ronaldo (R9), Charlton, Garrincha, Beckenbaeur, Puskas, Di Stefano, etc.
Now, it's seemingly universally accepted we have a 'Big 5" of Messi, Ronaldo, Maradona, Pele and Zidane. I don't see how he could have gotten better without kicking a ball?
But yes, Platini was exceptional, and the greatest ever French player for me.

Just on a sidenote, the most disregarded of the greats for me though, is Van Basten. Absolutely genius footballer, but very rarely mentioned these days.

I’m glad you’re saying this. I watched Zidane throughout his entire career, he was never regarded as highly as he is today. It’s the truckload of young internet Real Madrid fans who elevated his status by continuously taking about him as one of the best. He wasn’t.

 

[Fortitude]

One of the most bonkers statements I have seen (the one you responded to). In addition to the players you have listed, the sheer defensive talent in the 80's was breathtaking. IMO the 60's and 80's was probably the most stacked talent wise, historically speaking.

The 70's and 90's as well. In fact, each decade had its share of world class players. I agree with what you said though. The casual dismissal of the previous eras is absolutely astounding and reveals a profound lack of football knowledge.

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/what-is-the-greatest-ever-decade-for-players-and-teams.444205/


Thread was intended to aid that with a brief overview of each decade and its players.

 

[General_Elegancia]

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/what-is-the-greatest-ever-decade-for-players-and-teams.444205/


Thread was intended to aid that with a brief overview of each decade and its players.

One of the best thread that I’ve read in any forum and any football article. I’ve read this masterpiece even before I decided to register redcafe.net.

great job

 

[Fortitude]

One of the best thread that I’ve read in any forum and any football article. I’ve read this masterpiece even before I decided to register redcafe.net.

great job

Nice of you. The voting was interesting; would probably look different if done again.

 

[tjb]

I'd wager that if football fans of today could see past greats of the game week in week out as they do their favourite team/player, complete with highlight reels, they might give them their due respect. That lack of exposure, coupled with a lack of interest in what came before, accounts for the underestimation of a lot of really good players.

Also, our memories are remarkably short. What are the odds that decades from now the discussion will be about why the current greats are not thought of as highly as they should be? Pretty high, I think.

I actually think for the most part, its the opposite of what you stated.

I think a lot of past greats are slightly overrated and haven't had to deal with the level of scrutiny modern greats have to deal with.

In the past, to sell papers in a league, a lot of superstars were overglorified, with people who hadn't really watched them

I’m glad you’re saying this. I watched Zidane throughout his entire career, he was never regarded as highly as he is today. It’s the truckload of young internet Real Madrid fans who elevated his status by continuously taking about him as one of the best. He wasn’t.

The overhype of Zidane isn't really just young Madrid fans. It's the fact that Zidane is the most beautiful player to watch in football history. He passes they eye test and as a result, he gets the attention of the youtube audience. Where people who watched him during his era know about his inconsistencies and drop off in form; there are a lot of fans who did not actively watch his league performances or were too young to see him play who geniunely believe he played like Euro 2000 or the World cup in 2006 all the time. He has a lot of moments. Even for Madrid, games like the ones against Deportivo La Coruna or the final against Leverkusen constantly live on. No question that he's a great player, but I'm surprised how often he makes a top 10 list.

A lesser, but similar attention grabber is Dennis Bergkamp. Ultimate moments player. People remember the flicks and tricks. They always remember the goals against Newcastle, Leicester and Argentina. I don't think he was ever as impactful as he was made out to be, even at his peak. People were way too caught up with the aesthetic of his game. There are a lot of people who genuinely believe he was a major factor in Arsenal's 2001 - 2005 success, when in reality he was getting benched for Sylvain Wiltord most of the time. Never had nearly as much impact as some fans would have you believe. Cantona was a much more impactful player; it always annoys me when they get compared because the difference in their games were so evident. Bergkamp could not carry an attack the way Cantona did in 1996. Cantona always had the talismanic presence and always made an effort to get involved in the game. He was far more instrumental in the build up, where as Bergkamp dropped deeper for the purpose of playing the final line breaking ball.

This happens because there are way too many fans who value aesthetic a bit too much when judging players. Again, Zidane was a wonderful player, but I don't see a world where some people have him ahead of players like Cruyff, Beckenbauer, Di Stefano, Platini etc

 

[Chesterlestreet]

This meant, despite it only being a 4 week tournament, players who justified the hype during these periods could be overglorified, while others who didn't, for various reasons including injury would be wrongfully judged.

Very true.

There are many examples of this over the years.

When I was ten I considered Burruchaga an immense player.

Going further back, I can imagine that many ten year old European lads considered - say - Amarildo an immense player. Whereas those same lads wouldn't have heard of someone like Alberto Spencer.

 

[giorno]

I’m glad you’re saying this. I watched Zidane throughout his entire career, he was never regarded as highly as he is today.

Maybe in your country. Here in mine he was actually quite a bit overrated during his playing days, people outright putting him up there with Maradona. He also was something of a consensus best player in the world among fellow players, managers, and former players and managers

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

The overhype of Zidane isn't really just young Madrid fans. It's the fact that Zidane is the most beautiful player to watch in football history. He passes they eye test and as a result, he gets the attention of the youtube audience. Where people who watched him during his era know about his inconsistencies and drop off in form; there are a lot of fans who did not actively watch his league performances or were too young to see him play who geniunely believe he played like Euro 2000 or the World cup in 2006 all the time. He has a lot of moments. Even for Madrid, games like the ones against Deportivo La Coruna or the final against Leverkusen constantly live on. No question that he's a great player, but I'm surprised how often he makes a top 10 list.

A lesser, but similar attention grabber is Dennis Bergkamp. Ultimate moments player. People remember the flicks and tricks. They always remember the goals against Newcastle, Leicester and Argentina. I don't think he was ever as impactful as he was made out to be, even at his peak. People were way too caught up with the aesthetic of his game. There are a lot of people who genuinely believe he was a major factor in Arsenal's 2001 - 2005 success, when in reality he was getting benched for Sylvain Wiltord most of the time. Never had nearly as much impact as some fans would have you believe. Cantona was a much more impactful player; it always annoys me when they get compared because the difference in their games were so evident. Bergkamp could not carry an attack the way Cantona did in 1996. Cantona always had the talismanic presence and always made an effort to get involved in the game. He was far more instrumental in the build up, where as Bergkamp dropped deeper for the purpose of playing the final line breaking ball.

This post greatly misunderstands and underestimates what Bergkamp did for Arsenal due to either not watching Arsenal every game in the 1990s or perhaps only remembering the tail end of his career. Bergkamp was every bit as "impactful" for Arsenal as Cantona was for United. The season before Bergkamp joined Arsenal, Arsenal finished 12th in the premier league. This was under Bruce Rioch, right after the George Graham scandal and before Wenger joined to transform Arsenal's training practices. Before Bergkamp, and under Graham it was all "1-0 to the Arsenal" and the style was extremely defensive and sometimes foul-happy tactics. Bergkamp instantly began transforming Arsenal's identity from a dour, defensive team to a team that would eventually become, under Wenger, known for playing fast one-touch joga bonita football. Bergkamp's first year at Arsenal resulted in finishing 5th (as opposed to 12th the year before) and the next when Wenger took charge it was 3rd. Bergkamp was the pivotal key to that improvement. He was absolutely instrumental in the build-up at this time and not even close to just playing the final ball. He would appear all over the pitch as an outlet and gave the team exactly what they needed when they needed it. Sure he had some electric moments, and it seems that people forget how he played during his peak years in the 90s simply because of how they remember him from the later years and Invincibles and don't really understand the entire change during the 1990s that Bergkamp was crucial for.

 

[That_Bloke]

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/what-is-the-greatest-ever-decade-for-players-and-teams.444205/


Thread was intended to aid that with a brief overview of each decade and its players.

No one should ever comment about the previous eras without reading that thread at least once. I can track back to the 70's but the 60's are the point where I personally really enter uncharted territories, with the ever increasing lack of footage.

On a side note it is great that you mentioned Günter Netzer, a fantastic player with a real vista and who fell victim to the Bayern clan lead by Beckenbauer in the german NT, at a time where 'Gladbach and Bayern were deeply entrenched in a bitter club rivalry. He was condemned to a relative international obscurity as a consequence and never got the recognition nor the awards, his talent should've bestowed him. I loved him as a pundit, he was absolutely hilarious.

 

[Raees]

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/what-is-the-greatest-ever-decade-for-players-and-teams.444205/


Thread was intended to aid that with a brief overview of each decade and its players.

fantastic thread (OP is stunning) but I think the poll highlights the issue we are talking about. Recency bias and just not enough deeper historical football knowledge out there for these votes and certain opinions to be taken seriously.

 

[Swordsman]

That's why there can never be a GOAT, at best you can have GOTHG - Greatest Of Their Generation or GOTE - Greatest OF Their Era

Platini was a great player but I think he's career after football has hurt him badly in these kind of conversations

Im glad im not alone.

Or goht. Greatest of his time. Just dont name it goat. Thats plain silly.

 

[dinostar77]

One of the most bonkers statements I have seen (the one you responded to). In addition to the players you have listed, the sheer defensive talent in the 80's was breathtaking. IMO the 60's and 80's was probably the most stacked talent wise, historically speaking.

Raees, know your a busy bloke. But down the line a Pythagoras in Boots analysis would be appreciated. Especially as many on here never saw platini play, myself included and im old.

Agree that his stint at UEFA has tarnished his reputation somewhat. Also pretty sure hes still regarded as frances greatest ever player above zidane (who i adore personally).

 

[dinostar77]

That's why there can never be a GOAT, at best you can have GOTHG - Greatest Of Their Generation or GOTE - Greatest OF Their Era

Well said. Wish more would take this approach. Each era of football is so different to the next that it makes comparisions so difficult.

 

[dinostar77]

Maradona aside, I really think that was a crap era for football. He's where he belongs, above average.

Go do some research as your football knowledge of the 1980s is seriously lacking.

 

[JPRouve]

In terms of disregard Amoros is more disregarded than Platini. He is rarely mentioned among fullbacks even though, he was a great and modern fullback.

 

[padzilla]

There is no question he pissed all over his legacy but there is no question, either, that he was one of the very best in the world during his peak playing days.

 

[JPRouve]

There is no question he pissed all over his legacy but there is no question, either, that he was one of the very best in the world during his peak playing days.

Interestingly, Platini has been acquitted by Swiss judges and only considered a witness in the "Sarkozy loves Qatar" french case.

 

[padzilla]

I am old enough to remember Juventus having to sell Liam Brady to accommodate him because of the foreigner ruling at the time.

 

[dinostar77]

I am old enough to remember Juventus having to sell Liam Brady to accommodate him because of the foreigner ruling at the time.

I dont recall that, abit before my time but i do recall football italia on ch4 in the early 1990s and seeing world class footballers stuck in the stands due to the 3 foreigner ruling. Madness.

One thing to remember about Platini, he's the only player to have won 3 balon dor trophies on the trot (caveat non europeans werent eligble). So for three seasons he was the best player in europe.

Not till a certain Lionel Messi came along and won 4 balon dor on a trot and beat that record.

Wish i had seen peak Platini.

 

[Red in STL]

I am old enough to remember Juventus having to sell Liam Brady to accommodate him because of the foreigner ruling at the time.

I'm old enough to remember that as well, that foreigner rule probably cost United a CL win in the early days of the competition, counting Scottish/Irish players as foreign screwed the 94/95 team badly.

Having to play Gary Walsh instead of the Great Dane to face the likes of Pep, Koeman, Stoichkov and Romário doesn't help!

 

[surf]

He's the best French player I've seen, second to Maradona as the standout player of the 80's.

 

[padzilla]

I'm old enough to remember that as well, that foreigner rule probably cost United a CL win in the early days of the competition, counting Scottish/Irish players as foreign screwed the 94/95 team badly.

Having to play Gary Walsh instead of the Great Dane to face the likes of Pep, Koeman, Stoichkov and Romário doesn't help!

Fergie's famous quote about knowing Walsh was a mistake, when Mick Hucknall put one past him from 30 yards in the warm-up, springs to mind.

 

[Jippy]

He somehow gets next to no shine or acknowledgement on here. I've found myself and others championing him over and over, trying to highlight just how great he was, but it is akin to trying to prevent the tide coming in - he is constantly omitted, mostly in this manner:


not to 'hate' on @dasty as that sentiment is ceaseless on here, but astonishing for the disregard to Platini and the legacy he has (had) as a footballer.

How has one who was the bar for Maradona himself to surpass become so insignificant post-career? Is this a case of disinterest in the history of the game where you could replace Platini with any from: Puskas, Di Stefano, Cruyff, Charlton and so forth and be met with the same kind of instant dismissal?

I understand how more obscure players can fade from the collective consciousness, but how does it happen with players who are in the company of the pinnacle players to have played football? In Platini's case, this is a player you can't even creatively redact from the 10 best #10's to have played football. It isn't odd then, that barely anyone gives him credit, or even seems to know he was an exceptional player?

I only remember seeing him play once, in the Brazil match in 86 and even then I only remember him and Socrates missing their pens.
Euro 84 was before my time.

I remember seeing reruns of the great Brazil goals and moments as a kid, but not France or many others.

 

[Red in STL]

I only remember seeing him play once, in the Brazil match in 86 and even then I only remember him and Socrates missing their pens.
Euro 84 was before my time.

I remember seeing reruns of the great Brazil goals and moments as a kid, but not France or many others.

That's part of the problem with whole GOAT debates, today pretty much every game is televised so everyone can see everything, older generational players only have a few clips here and there, often not the greatest quality

I'm old enough to have seen most of the great players from the mid-70's onwards live, when you look back to the pitches and the tackles that were allowed you have to wonder just how today's players would cope with all that, would they be as good, who knows it's impossible to tell

 

[BalanceUnAutreJoint]

No Zidane was not good vs Portugal or Italy. He was great vs Brazil and good vs Spain. That's it.

Not good against Italy? What is this nonsense. He nearly won us the game late with his header.

If anyone had a stinker it was Henry

 

[mshnsh]

Not good against Italy? What is this nonsense. He nearly won us the game late with his header.

If anyone had a stinker it was Henry

That os all you got? A header?

 

[BalanceUnAutreJoint]

That os all you got? A header?

7th minute : scores a panenka
20th minute : plays a pass that nearly has Henry through on goal but the ref calls a foul for a Zambrotta dive
36th minute : another dangerous ball that sees Henry make a dangerous run into the box
52nd minute : beautiful pass that could have given Malouda a 1V1 with the keeper but he takes an extra touch and a defender gets back
13th minute of extra time : almost scores the winner

Mind you these are ONLy final third actions, that's not even going into all the other stuff he did further down the pitch