These are highlights of his career and you will always be lenient in judging him when you mention things like “he took the club to the finals,” meaning that he did not win the trophy, right? I know how much you have used hindsight to suggest how great a team of players Pep had to work with at Barca, I just hope you have the same opinion about Sahin, Gotze, Lewandowski, Hummels, Marco Reus, Gundogan, Perisic, etc.
Achieve more? Which trophy has he achieved more? Winning the UCL and EPL at Liverpool once each doesn’t not shield a manger from getting judged about their current performances like loosing out of champions league place to rookie manager Arteta.
So many inaccuracies here, where to start?
I wonder why so many United fans are desperately defending pep to the point you're trying to argue that what klopp did with dortmund or Liverpool wasn't a harder achievement than what guardiola has done with his 3 sides. I mean saying, gotten, reus never particularly performed that well outside those klopp teams. The great players at Barca played well even after pep left, maybe with the exception of pedro
Because it all looks like an agenda against the man. I mean what has he done? He doesn’t spend but takes the risk and promotes his young lads over well established stars and we use hindsight to castigate the poor guy. He spends and we criticize him for that whilst being lenient on his contemporaries that also spent but never got close to him.
Utterly ridiculous. As long as Messi was at Barca they were scoring 85 plus goals a season even when he was 33, and as soon as he left they didn't break 70 goals in the next 2, above 85 was for about 13 seasons straight, when guardiola left, Barca set a points record the next season. Barca's performance and attacking waxed and waned along with Messi, as he declined and then left eventually so did their goalscoring ability, whereas without guardiola it kind of just kept ticking
You could have already saved us the trouble if you hadn’t been so defensive over an absolutely true statement: the number of academy starters in each treble winning team.
The idea he didnt spend at Barca is for the birds surely. Nearly 300m in 4 years at a time when that level of spending was not at all common in europe. In the same time period we spent about 130m. And we didn't have Messi, xavi, iniesta, and busquets for free
Manchester United's starting 11 in both the 2009 and the 2011 Champions League finals cost more than Barcelona's.
Yes because as someone else had already pointed out you were counting the likes of Rio who was bought in 2002.
Yeah tbh we looked like fools for not having the idea to have xavi, ineista, Messi and busquets come through our youth system. A real missed trick by fergie IMO
The whole thing is very silly.
That his team wasn't as good/successful is obvious. But you said they didn't play like the typical Guardiola team. What do you mean with that precisely other than "less succesful"?
You can't make these arguments and then say that Alex Ferguson is the greatest manager on earth because he won a treble with great academy such as Ryan Giggs, Paul Scholes, David Beckham, etc. It makes no sense whatsoever.
I see you conveniently ignored the point I was making about Dortmund and Barca not achieving the same thing. In any case I meant that the majority of guys that pulled the strings during is reign were lads that cost next to nothing.
Rio Ferdinand counts because he was a player on the pitch, it doesn't matter one bit when he was purchased.
There is no doubt Guardiola is an exceptional coach, probably the best of modern era.
Yes Rio would also count if he was still playing today, the fee would be the same but it would tell more about United’s absolute stupidity than the quality of their team.
Yeah if you ignore that xavi and iniesta had just won the euros and Messi finished 2nd in that year's ballon d'Or it's basically the same as when fergie brought through all those players. I'll give you busquets but not the other 3
More like Pep knows which players he wants and builds his teams on certain principals and fundamentals, rather than buying any random shit from the market then expecting it to work like United and Chelsea.
The situations are much closer to each other than they are different.
I mean wasn’t it you who compared the net spend of the Barca and United final squads? That’s your answer regarding how it is relevant. To me it is more relevant what was spent in that time period 2008/09 - 2012 (or maybe also in the 2-3 years before 2008) than what was spent in 2002 (Rio).
No they aren't. Xavi and iniesta had won the euros and Messi was 2nd in the ballon d'or in 2008, only 3 months of which was under Pep. That's nothing like bringing through a bunch of youth players to thr first team who'd done nothing before your arrival
I agree shifting out star players who had won United's 1st league title in decades to replace many of them with unproven youth was bold. I think Xavi was 28-29 when Pep took over and Messi had just finishing 2nd in the Ballon D'Or.
He had 2 players in the top 5 of the 2008 ballon d'or and 4 of the top 10 in the fifa World player of the year (when they were separate but both prestigious awards). The idea that its comparable to fergie bringing through a bunch of unproven youth is totally ridiculous
I disagree that what was spent on 2002 is not relevant. A four to six year period might not be representative because 1) squad turnover is not that fast, and 2) players who do end up at the club for a long time are likely to be the better ones.
This post is written to make it sound like Guardiola's Barcelona was the same as City's, that he just dumped a pile of money at the problems.
So 2 oil clubs outspent him, as well as two of the other biggest sides in Europe, one of which was having to do a big rebuild following relegation. When the team you inherit has eto'o, Messi, xavi, ineiesta, busquets, Henry, puyol, valdes and abidal, it's ridiculous to have to be in the top 5 net spends in europe
Nobody forced you to lie about Barcelona spending "uncommon" amounts without looking at the numbers. You decided to do that on your own.
Thierry Henry was playing in the MLS by 2010. Eto'o had issues with the manager and was playing in Russia by 2011. Eric Abidal was never able to play more than 3000 minutes per season because of a number of injuries including cancer.
Pep Guardiola is my idol
It was uncommon, we reached 2 champion league finals in that 4 year period and had a new spend of less than 50m I think. Real Madrid has an historic transfer window in 2009 and city were spending unprecedented amounts. It certainly wasn't commonplace.
Is there really a difference if you inherit players that would be worth probably 400m combined in today's market, or more (xavi, Messi and iniesta would likely have gone for that) and spending that money. You still get to work with some of the best and most valuable players whether they were purchased or not. When people talk about the money pep has spent at city, its shorthand for the resources in terms of players that he's had. Inheriting those resources doesn't make it a harder challenge
I specifically do mean less successful, the hype pep has is based on his success (yes his playstyle as well, but nice football with no trophies would not make as impressive a CV). Its a mark agaisnt him to only be able to win titles with world class players in every single positionDo you mind answering?
You're dancing around the question. What exactly is it with Pep's system that requires world class players in every position to work out? I want to hear something substantial, something football related, no pointing to a points return in his EPL debut season. Which aspects of how Guardiola's teams go out to play wouldn't work if he coached a team with lesser financial resources?
