Is Pep the greatest manager of all time?

[El Jefe]

I think he’s the best but there are questions unanswered from him that someone like Fergie will always have over him.

One of the hardest things in football is building a winning team, declining and then transitioning to being a winning team again. Pep’s privilege on and off the pitch has meant CIty have always been the dominant side. Even when they come down a level it’s still way above the competition.

What Fergie had to do between 2004-2007, Pep has never been in that position. He’s also never faced what Fergie did when Glazernomics began. These are two huge obstacles that SAF overcame.

I do feel Pep is the better tactician, innovator and standard setter but no great manager has had it as sweet as he has especially his last two jobs.

 

[Kelly15]

Most overrated manager of all time. Without the best players in the world his system does work. And he doesn't have a plan b. Hence why this record of 4 premier titles in a row is going under the radar. I didn't even now city clinched the leage. Let alone set a record. I am shocked how apathetic the world is to city. They should have a decent following now. But no one is interested in jumping on that wagon.

 

[EireRed_GS]

He's been superb as a manager, ill give him that. he has used the resources hes had, to the absolute maximum. Done a hell of a job..

There will always be those questions hanging over him though can he build a / transform a team from a mess to winners. He's always pretty much started with extremely strong squads.

As for greatest ever? Nah not for me. Will always be Fergie for the multiple times he rebuild United's squad to come back to win the league. No chance Pep could win the league with what Fergie was working with at times.

 

[Ish]

If City are found guilty, and Barca are found guilty of paying refs off, they should strip everything off them. Even the clothes Pep wears, and any remaining hair follicles.

 

[Amir]

You explained it so well and you are so right about Pep who always shied away from small clubs.

He started at Barca B, got the Barcelona job and instantly became a huge success. What did you expect him to do after that, reject Bayern and then City in order to go to Alaves?

 

[11101]

There can be back and forth discussions on his achievements forever but the best answer I've seen so far is this; Pep won four in a row, Lance won 7 in a row. Same thing.

He's just done the unthinkable winning 4 in a row and its not even the top story on BBC Sport. Nobody cares.

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

Do you think all these current managers who reference him and cit his influence are bribed by him? Do you place any value on the fact that your fellow colleagues and professionals rate you? Or do you think they're all just brainwashed?

No idea.

Not really.

No idea.

(Still didn’t answer the actual question raised but you do you)

 

[adexkola]

He started at Barca B, got the Barcelona job and instantly became a huge success. What did you expect him to do after that, reject Bayern and then City in order to go to Alaves?

Yes. Would you not?

There can be back and forth discussions on his achievements forever but the best answer I've seen so far is this; Pep won four in a row, Lance won 7 in a row. Same thing.

He's just done the unthinkable winning 4 in a row and its not even the top story on BBC Sport. Nobody cares.

I went to BBC sport and it's the top story. May be different depending on country. What's the top story on yours?

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

He started at Barca B, got the Barcelona job and instantly became a huge success. What did you expect him to do after that, reject Bayern and then City in order to go to Alaves?

I doubt anyone bemoans him taking a top job after the Barca trophies, but it’s then difficult to compare to a Ferguson (twice), Busby, Clough…?

Not Peps fault, but is Peps choice.

 

[E-mal]

These mental gymnastics is embarrassing. This guy is just taking the piss with the league now

 

[kaiser1]

No he's barely proved anything. Only 3 CL wins is flop achievement considering the teams he's had and number of seasons played.

All he's proved is he can make good players pass in triangles really good and fast.

Ferguson has 2 CL, Pep has 3. 3 > 2
Pep beat Ferguson to win 2 of his

 

[Amir]

I doubt anyone bemoans him taking a top job after the Barca trophies, but it’s then difficult to compare to a Ferguson (twice), Busby, Clough…?

Not Peps fault, but is Peps choice.

I wouldn"t really say it's a choice. It's just the way things developed.

 

[Desert Eagle]

Paisley didn't lose several of his players in a plane crash, hence why that wouldn't be shameful.

So no busby stats allowed where he is behind someone on achievements?

 

[kaiser1]

Winning titles in Spain coaching 3 of the 20 greatest football players of all time.

Winning titles in one-team league in Germany coaching the only team that matters in Germany.

Winning titles in England coaching the most financially-endowed team in the history of football.

Let me know which of the 20 greatest managers ever would not have been able to achieve what he has if they had the resources and the talent that he has had? A few of them would have achieved even more.

He will never be the best manager of all time or in PL history. Not even top 3. No manager has had as little resistance to success as Pep has. He has never faced real adversity because he's always had access to the very best or the resources to get the very best.

Pep Guardiola is the best manager in the world - and that's crucial. "If you put any other manager in that club, they don't win the league four times in a row. That's down to him and his team. - Jurgen Klopp

 

[Theonas]

No idea.

Not really.

No idea.

(Still didn’t answer the actual question raised but you do you)

We have a fundamental disagreement on how opinions should be constructed and different sources of data that should be used and weight of each source so it won’t help anyone here if we engage in this back and forth.

 

[Yagami]

He's unfortunately the best I've seen. The football he gets his teams to play is incredible. Exactly how I'd love to see us play.

People can talk about how he only manages the best clubs and gets loads of money to spend, but we've seen so many managers at top clubs who have never got teams playing as consistently well as Pep has done throughout his whole career. It's not as easy as he makes it look. He's just that good.

City the club are cheats but the team itself on the pitch is all Pep.

 

[kaiser1]

Nothing he has done at Bayern or City has been remotely impressive. So i'm not even going to get into it.

You mentioning Ancelotti and Jose only serves to prove my point. If you give a legendary manager resources (ANY of the 20 greatest ever) they will dominate and win several titles. Ancelotti has titles in each of the big 5 leagues and has 4 CLs too. Why isn't he mentioned as the GOAT? Jose has titles in Spain, Portugal, England, Italy plus a treble and 2 CLs so he should be the greatest no? Why mention chequebook management for Jose but not for Pep who has been by far the biggest beneficiary of the chequebook in history?

What separates the best of the best from the rest is their ability to build, tear down and rebuild while facing adversity and limitations. Pep has never had to deal with limitations at any club he has ever been at and he is yet to demonstrate that he can build a legendary team with limited resources. Fergie built 3 of them across two decades with two teams who won 3 straight titles ten yea

Ancelotti has 6 league titles and 4 CL after over 25yrs managing Juve, Milan Chelsea PSG, Bayern Madrid. I think if Pep manages for 25yrs he will do better than that. He has won the entire league titles Carlo won in his career in the last 7yrs alone

 

[Dannn411]

Pep Guardiola is the best manager in the world - and that's crucial. "If you put any other manager in that club, they don't win the league four times in a row. That's down to him and his team. - Jurgen Klopp

Cap. If Klopp is running that squad they win it 4 times in a row. If Carlo is in charge of that squad they win it 4 times in a row. Those are the only two coaches on that level. The rest don't matter. Don't mistake modesty for truth.

 

[kaiser1]

He'll never be considered the greatest cos he's never done it with a small club.

Carragher said the same. Fergie's achievement with Aberdeen will top anything Pep does in his career.

Just like Messi isn't the best because he didn't win the CL with Ipswich Town

 

[kaiser1]

Cap. If Klopp is running that squad they win it 4 times in a row. If Carlo is in charge of that squad they win it 4 times in a row. Those are the only two coaches on that level. The rest don't matter. Don't mistake modesty for truth.

Carlo was in charge of Juve Milan Chelsea PSG Bayern and Madrid for 25yrs he just won his 6th league in 25yrs

Klopp said no one can do it and that includes him. I will trust Klopp over you

 

[kaiser1]

He'll never be considered the greatest cos he's never done it with a small club.

Carragher said the same. Fergie's achievement with Aberdeen will top anything Pep does in his career.

Ranieri won the PL with Leicester, Is he the greatest coach of all time?

He met your criteria to a T

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

We have a fundamental disagreement on how opinions should be constructed and different sources of data that should be used and weight of each source so it won’t help anyone here if we engage in this back and forth.

Mines easy.

Other managers have achieved things in a more challenging arena, with less support.

You can go back and forth as much as you want, I don’t mind, it’s an opinion.

I’ve seen what plenty of managers (including Pep) have done over 50 years … I don’t rate him top. Achievement (for me) isn’t PURELY trophies

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

He’s the greatest coach of all time. Not sure if he’s the greatest manager of all time.

But I’ll also freely admit that I’ll always struggle with the front running he’s been able to do. I mean City is basically what you get when you build the best footballing structure in the world, and then on top of it cheat your fecking face off to skirt the financial rules. Is it impressive? Eh it’s tough to say. The results are obviously unprecedented but I have a hard time giving it the credit it would normally deserve.

 

[MexicanCowboy]

Other clubs have spent tons of money, like Chelsea and PSG and haven't achieved what Pep has and have never played half as well.

 

[Theonas]

Cap. If Klopp is running that squad they win it 4 times in a row. If Carlo is in charge of that squad they win it 4 times in a row. Those are the only two coaches on that level. The rest don't matter. Don't mistake modesty for truth.

No idea about Klopp as he never manages clubs that expect to win every year. His methods and personality are more suited to clubs that challenge the ones who are expected to win year. So no idea really if he has that skillset. As for Ancelotti, you must be kidding surely. He is my favourite working manager but the man had better or at least equal squads to Pep’s and never done that. His teams have simply never shown the same level of consistency.

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

Ranieri won the PL with Leicester, Is he the greatest coach of all time?

He met your criteria to a T

I’m sure you don’t mean it but they’re not a direct comparison… not even close.

Multiple trophies including European isn’t one league where the stars align.

 

[Gabriel Djemba-Bebe]

So no busby stats allowed where he is behind someone on achievements?

It is very crass trying to get engagement by pointing out Pep has more titles than a man who lost almost his entire young team in a plane crash, after they'd just won back-to-back titles.

The fact that they've deleted the tweet now speaks volumes.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[Tom Van Persie]

So no busby stats allowed where he is behind someone on achievements?

Context matters and it's a pointless comparison anyway.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

Ranieri won the PL with Leicester, Is he the greatest coach of all time?

He met your criteria to a T

No he didn't. It's not like SAF had one freak season like Ranieri did with Leicester. He broke up the old firm dominance then went and won a European Cup with Aberdeen. He's still the last manager in football to beat Real Madrid in a European final.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

It is very crass trying to get engagement by pointing out Pep has more titles than a man who lost almost his entire young team in a plane crash, after they'd just won back-to-back titles.

The fact that they've deleted the tweet now speaks volumes.

Betfred are United's betting partner too. I can't imagine the club were very happy seeing that. Very disrespectful.

 

[bstb3]

It is very crass trying to get engagement by pointing out Pep has more titles than a man who lost almost his entire young team in a plane crash, after they'd just won back-to-back titles.

The fact that they've deleted the tweet now speaks volumes.

Indeed. Can forgive some junior for putting out the tweet without thinking & then pulling it when it's pointed out, but would imagine here of all places people would understand the context and why it's not appropriate at all.

 

[next_number_seven]

Just like Messi isn't the best because he didn't win the CL with Ipswich Town

That's not analogous.

I'm just saying Pep has never overachieved with a club.

 

[next_number_seven]

Ranieri won the PL with Leicester, Is he the greatest coach of all time?

He met your criteria to a T

No.
But Ranieri's PL title is a bigger achievement than anything Pep has done.
The rest of Ranieri's career is average.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

That's not analogous.

I'm just saying Pep has never overachieved with a club.

He arguably underachieved with one club too. I still can't believe he never won or reached the CL final with that Bayern side. It was a brilliant team and they had just won the treble the season before Pep took over.

 

[Fortitude]

Fergie at Aberdeen.

Fergie's renaissance between 06 and 13 when everybody and their grandma thought he was done at the top level.

Jose at Porto and Inter.

Wenger's run at Arsenal between 1998 and 2004.

All infinitely greater than what Pep did at either City or Bayern.The only thing Pep has done that is truly legendary is the Barcelona team between 2009 and 2011.

Agree with this. Pep’s halcyon period was at Barcelona. 1CL since with the squads at his disposal is not impressive and what has happened domestically is exactly what is supposed to happen domestically when you have A) the best squads by far and; B) Are cheating on a scale to which nothing in sport itself can match.

 

[André Dominguez]

He is clearly one of the best ever. He literally changed the way football was played pretty much like other historical managers like Arrigo Sacchi, Sir Alex, Ernst Happel, Helenio Herrera, Rinus Michels, etc.

 

[kaiser1]

No.
But Ranieri's PL title is a bigger achievement than anything Pep has done.
The rest of Ranieri's career is average.

Ranieri title is bigger than anything Ferguson or any coach has ever done

 

[kaiser1]

That's not analogous.

I'm just saying Pep has never overachieved with a club.

Winning 6 in 7 league titles in the most competitive league in the world is not overachieving?

How many people in the world will say a coach will win 6 of the next 7 in the league said to be the most competitive, with the richest teams, best coaches and filled with upsets?

 

[heraklion]

Fergie at Aberdeen.

Fergie's renaissance between 06 and 13 when everybody and their grandma thought he was done at the top level.

Jose at Porto and Inter.

Wenger's run at Arsenal between 1998 and 2004.

Yeah, right. Pep's teams never went out in the UCL group stage to teams like Benfica, Basel, Goteborg, Villareal, Lille, Galatasaray (pre-group stage) despite having a superior squad unlike SAF. In 2005 in a group with Lille, Benfica and Villareal, they finished last. In 2012, United went out in the group stage again behind Basel and Benfica. This is more than embarrassing. Many times, United got eliminated in the 2nd round in the CL right after the group stage as well. And, I forgot the number of times United faced early elimination every time they faced Real Madrid under SAF, probably 3-4 times.

Not to mention Pep's teams are way more dominant on the field than any other manager's regardless of whether they lose or not, nobody comes close.

All infinitely greater than what Pep did at either City or Bayern.The only thing Pep has done that is truly legendary is the Barcelona team between 2009 and 2011.

Pep's winning percentage alone makes him an absolute legend in Bundesliga. There's a reason why a ruthless club like Bayern didn't want him to leave while showing Ancelotti the door after the 1st season, not even tolerating treble winner Flick, firing Nagelsmann before the season end and now Tuchel.

"He won 82 out of 104 games, a win percentage of 80.4 which destroyed that of his closest challenger, Ottmar Hitzfeld (58.4%)."

"Guardiola’s Bayern scored a record 254 goals in 102 league matches while conceding just 58. They also kept 59 clean sheets - another record."

"His side also set a record for earning the most points in the first half of the season, taking an astonishing 47 from a possible 51. "

"wrapping up the title in March 2014 after 27 games, setting a new record for the fastest Bundesliga win and finishing the season with 90 points, 19 ahead of Jurgen Klopp's Borussia Dortmund in second."

"Since the Catalan swapped Bavaria for Manchester, Carlo Ancelotti and Niko Kovac lasted little more than a year."

www.goal.com/en-us/lists/guardiola-didnt-fail-bayern-munich-not-winning-champions-league-man-city/bltc3b576b91f22d2b6