Is Poch really the answer?

meamth

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I’ll never understand why managers are just appointed by clubs. It’s such an old fashioned and, frankly, nonsense approach.

In the event of Ole’s sacking, the board should be welcoming applications and properly interviewing the suitable candidates - seeing what their plans are, tactics, transfers, seeing if they are a good fit. Why do managers get to just waltz into the job based on their name and reputation?
That is not how it works.

Usually managers out of job can send their CVs to the club and be called for an interview.

different case to when Ole was appointed, he got it due to good form.

Basically if Ole is out of job, manager CVs and interviews will be conducted.
 

Gopher Brown

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That is not how it works.

Usually managers out of job can send their CVs to the club and be called for an interview.

different case to when Ole was appointed, he got it due to good form.

Basically if Ole is out of job, manager CVs and interviews will be conducted.
No they won’t though, someone will just be the first choice and will be appointed. This is how it works in football for some reason.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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Yeesh, sensitive much? Fact is I'd be far more worried about United with Pochettino in charge. I suspect this opinion is pretty much unanimous amongst rival supporters.
You don’t get it don’t you. I was trying to tell you that you should worry or focus about your own team not us because you got Lampard, the worst manager of the top 6 team. Your current concern about Poch to join United does not matter because your current manager is Lampard and United has better chance to win something under Ole than Chelsea under Lampard, this logic coming from the fact that Ole is better manager than Lampard, the h2h & where we finished end of last season reflect to it as the evidence.
 

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No they won’t though, someone will just be the first choice and will be appointed. This is how it works in football for some reason.
How do you know that ? How can you say with such confidence that this is actually how it works ? where are your sources ?
 

dal

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Sacking a manager while he has the players backing is bad, top this with removing all the back room staff while we are still fragile is worse. Then add to this the intense media scrutiny we will get will be stupid.

Man managing is the most important aspect in the modern game. It’s the main reason Pep and Klopp do so well, their players really play for them. Ole is brilliant at it.

If we hire Poch I’m sure he will perform worse than Ole. Completely different animal to Spurs. Given our current Ecosystem only Pep and Klopp could give us what we need.

Everyone else is Meh.

More than anything we need stability, a focus on recruitment, youth, playing for the badge. Getting the club running like a machine again.

If we are out in the wilderness for a year or two so be it, if we change now it will set us back for an even longer time, I guarantee it.

Ole can guide us through this because he isn’t being selfish and making stupid short term desicions.

Tactically he is quite brilliant, hes got morale high aswell. I support Man Utd not Ole but I genuinely feel we need to stick with him until at least summer 2022.
 

Gopher Brown

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How do you know that ? How can you say with such confidence that this is actually how it works ? where are your sources ?
Well, I might be wrong, but my opinion is that it would be too difficult to keep the process secret enough to prevent the names of people interviewed from coming out.

Very, very rarely do we hear about a candidate being interviewed for a top managerial position, although this article suggests clubs at least have a shortlist (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/47603536)

We know that Moyes was just appointed without any sort of process. I don’t recall hearing any other names mentioned when LVG, Mourinho and Solskjær were all appointed either - and our boardroom seems to be the leakiest of leaky vessels, so I dare say we would hear about these things.
 

devilish

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Sacking a manager while he has the players backing is bad, top this with removing all the back room staff while we are still fragile is worse. Then add to this the intense media scrutiny we will get will be stupid.

Man managing is the most important aspect in the modern game. It’s the main reason Pep and Klopp do so well, their players really play for them. Ole is brilliant at it.

If we hire Poch I’m sure he will perform worse than Ole. Completely different animal to Spurs. Given our current Ecosystem only Pep and Klopp could give us what we need.

Everyone else is Meh.

More than anything we need stability, a focus on recruitment, youth, playing for the badge. Getting the club running like a machine again.

If we are out in the wilderness for a year or two so be it, if we change now it will set us back for an even longer time, I guarantee it.

Ole can guide us through this because he isn’t being selfish and making stupid short term desicions.

Tactically he is quite brilliant, hes got morale high aswell. I support Man Utd not Ole but I genuinely feel we need to stick with him until at least summer 2022.
Irrespective whether Ole stays or leave we need some serious restructuring at the club. We need to get a top DOF, a top head of recruitment and we need to inject some real experience in that coaching staff. Apart from Phelan we're lead by a bunch of kids (football experience wise) really and that's felt across the board. New signing performances tend to nosedive once our coaches had the time to get their hands on them while players who actually leave the club have a second lease of life (Lukaku, Dalot and Smalling)

If Ole is cool with those changes then I don't mind if he sees out the season and we see where we can go. If not, then he's part of the problem.
 

TheMagicFoolBus

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You don’t get it don’t you. I was trying to tell you that you should worry or focus about your own team not us because you got Lampard, the worst manager of the top 6 team. Your current concern about Poch to join United does not matter because your current manager is Lampard and United has better chance to win something under Ole than Chelsea under Lampard, this logic coming from the fact that Ole is better manager than Lampard, the h2h & where we finished end of last season reflect to it as the evidence.
:lol:

Wow, definitely sensitive. Seems I've struck a nerve!
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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:lol:

Wow, definitely sensitive. Seems I've struck a nerve!
I'm not sure where the sensitive things you said? :confused: Were you trying to wind me up or something? I didn't know that

I thought you want to have a discussion about our club's managers and I welcome you with nice, sensible with fact replies but for some reason you are talking about sensitivity and nerve things, you are either weirdo or still drunk :lol:
 

TheMagicFoolBus

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I'm not sure where the sensitive things you said? :confused: Were you trying to wind me up or something? I didn't know that

I thought you want to have a discussion about our club's managers and I welcome you with nice, sensible with fact replies but for some reason you are talking about sensitivity and nerve things, you are either weirdo or still drunk :lol:
I wasn't trying to wind anyone up, I made a perfectly sensible and innocuous post from a rival's perspective. You've responded by posting some silly OTT nonsense regarding Lampard, which isn't even relevant to this discussion. Obviously this is because you're sensitive about Ole - understandable, as I would be too were I in your shoes.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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I wasn't trying to wind anyone up, I made a perfectly sensible and innocuous post from a rival's perspective. You've responded by posting some silly OTT nonsense regarding Lampard, which isn't even relevant to this discussion. Obviously this is because you're sensitive about Ole - understandable, as I would be too were I in your shoes.
This is why I mentioned it before that you didn't get what I said. My point is simple, why would a Chelsea fans need to be worried of Ole being replaced by Poch when with Ole we can finish above Chelsea. Whether it's Ole or Poch, it doesn't change anything on Chelsea

This is why I bring Lampard into the discussion because whether it's Ole or Poch the manager is, those two have proven themselves they are capable to finish higher than Lampard. May be you are the one being sensitive since I told you the reality here, I don't feel anything at all from what you said.
 

passing-wind

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Sacking a manager while he has the players backing is bad, top this with removing all the back room staff while we are still fragile is worse. Then add to this the intense media scrutiny we will get will be stupid.

Man managing is the most important aspect in the modern game. It’s the main reason Pep and Klopp do so well, their players really play for them. Ole is brilliant at it.

If we hire Poch I’m sure he will perform worse than Ole. Completely different animal to Spurs. Given our current Ecosystem only Pep and Klopp could give us what we need.

Everyone else is Meh.

More than anything we need stability, a focus on recruitment, youth, playing for the badge. Getting the club running like a machine again.

If we are out in the wilderness for a year or two so be it, if we change now it will set us back for an even longer time, I guarantee it.

Ole can guide us through this because he isn’t being selfish and making stupid short term desicions.

Tactically he is quite brilliant, hes got morale high aswell. I support Man Utd not Ole but I genuinely feel we need to stick with him until at least summer 2022.
Must be a rival fan your suggesting that Solskjaer is the only manager in world football to lead the club forward and that he's a brilliant tactician :lol:. I don't think Poch is the best option but he's a better manager than what Solskjaer has proven himself to be. We need a manager with leadership qualities, clear identity and a sense of direction all of which Ole lacks.
 

TheMagicFoolBus

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This is why I mentioned it before that you didn't get what I said. My point is simple, why would a Chelsea fans need to be worried of Ole being replaced by Poch when with Ole we can finish above Chelsea. Whether it's Ole or Poch, it doesn't change anything on Chelsea

This is why I bring Lampard into the discussion because whether it's Ole or Poch the manager is, those two have proven themselves they are capable to finish higher than Lampard. May be you are the one being sensitive since I told you the reality here, I don't feel anything at all from what you said.
Wait, let me get this straight. Because you finished one position ahead of us last year, your manager is definitively better to the point where I should never consider the impact of replacing him? And any / all relevant context shouldn't be considered?

:lol:
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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Wait, let me get this straight. Because you finished one position ahead of us last year, your manager is definitively better to the point where I should never consider the impact of replacing him? And any / all relevant context shouldn't be considered?

:lol:
The impact for Chelsea doesn't change though, it will still be finishing higher than Chelsea under Lampard.
 

dal

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He’s improved rashford, martial, Fred. Helped Matic rediscover his form. He’s got a sense of spirit. He has a clear direction in terms of the kinds of players he wants to recruit.

He likes to press when possible. He’s a pragmatist.

Hes beat most of the top managers apart from Klopp. He finished 3rd which is the best he could have.

Yes, he can improve but I feel some people are choosing to ignore what he has done.
 

FrankDrebin

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I'm not sure whether Poch is the answer though I couldn't really give you any other obvious name as I dont watch a great deal of teams abroad nowadays.

Rose is being mentioned by a fair amount by supporters yet the only things I can tell you are that he's German, managers Borussia Mönchengladbach and he looks abit like RVN.
 

DomesticTadpole

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Nobody knows who the right man is if it comes to Ole having to go. You don't know who is right until you find the man who gets you back challenging regularly and winning trophies. Then he is the right man.
 

TheMagicFoolBus

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The impact for Chelsea doesn't change though, it will still be finishing higher than Chelsea under Lampard.
Right. Because last season proves that. But if we were to appoint, say, Garry Monk or Tim Sherwood who are proven to be better managers than Ole by your same criteria, you'd have no basis to comment.

:lol:
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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Right. Because last season proves that. But if we were to appoint, say, Garry Monk or Tim Sherwood who are proven to be better managers than Ole by your same criteria, you'd have no basis to comment.

:lol:
Proven what? They haven’t proven to be better manager than Ole in top club.
 

TheMagicFoolBus

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Proven what? They haven’t proven to be better manager than Ole in top club.
Your argument is that Ole has been proven to be a better manager than Lampard because he finished ahead of him on goal difference in one season (ignoring the fact that Ole spend 200m, hadn't lost his best player, was already integrated and settled at the club, and had been a manager for 8 times as long). If context doesn't matter, then by your standards every manager who finished above Ole in 2013/14 is proven to be better.

Regardless, that's enough thread-derailing. Feel free to take this to an appropriate thread if you insist.

The point remains that a prospective United under Poch are far more worrisome than United under Ole, full stop.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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Your argument is that Ole has been proven to be a better manager than Lampard because he finished ahead of him on goal difference in one season (ignoring the fact that Ole spend 200m, hadn't lost his best player, was already integrated and settled at the club, and had been a manager for 8 times as long). If context doesn't matter, then by your standards every manager who finished above Ole in 2013/14 is proven to be better.

Regardless, that's enough thread-derailing. Feel free to take this to an appropriate thread if you insist.

The point remains that a prospective United under Poch are far more worrisome than United under Ole, full stop.
You are not reading my post fully mate. I don’t just use the league position to judge who’s better. I can talk Arteta being better than Lampard due to him have won trophy FA Cup.

When you are comparing the two managers then you compare everything, both Ole and Lampard are trophy-less (although Ole did win in norwegian league but I’ll exclude that from the argument). So what we can use to judge who’s the better manager is their H2h and and how they finished their season last season as it was both first full season with their respective clubs.

Let’s not ignoring these facts too: Ole lost Lukaku & Herrera. Lukaku started 15 games under Ole in 23 games when he was available and he was our 2nd top scorer, that’s right Ole lost his 2nd top scorer, he didn’t get a replacement for those two. Lampard on the other hand inherited Europa League winner and 3rd place team, he lost Hazard but he got someone as replacement at least Pulisic. Both have their own disadvantages and also advantages, they cancel out.
 

TheMagicFoolBus

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You are not reading my post fully mate. I don’t just use the league position to judge who’s better. I can talk Arteta being better than Lampard due to him have won trophy FA Cup.

When you are comparing the two managers then you compare everything, both Ole and Lampard are trophy-less (although Ole did win in norwegian league but I’ll exclude that from the argument). So what we can use to judge who’s the better manager is their H2h and and how they finished their season last season as it was both first full season with their respective clubs.

Ole lost Lukaku & Herrera. Lukaku started 15 games under Ole in 23 games when he was available and he was our 2nd top scorer, that’s right Ole lost his 2nd top scorer, he didn’t get a replacement for those two. Lampard on the other hand inherited Europa League winner and 3rd place team, he lost Hazard but he got someone as replacement at least Pulisic. Cancel out the handicap.
Hazard either scored or assisted literally half our goals in 18/19. It just doesn't compare.

Point being that it's silly to state definitively one way or the other which is the better manager. Arguing that I'm not qualified to say that United scare me more hypothetically with Poch than they do with Ole because my manager might be worse than Ole is ridiculous.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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Hazard either scored or assisted literally half our goals in 18/19. It just doesn't compare.

Point being that it's silly to state definitively one way or the other which is the better manager. Arguing that I'm not qualified to say that United scare me more hypothetically with Poch than they do with Ole because my manager might be worse than Ole is ridiculous.
So? It doesn’t mean you can ignore the fact that there are good players in that squad which part of the squad that finished 3rd and won Europa league. Losing Hazard doesn’t prevent manager to find different way to create goals & assists from other players, as long as there are good players in the squad. Just because Sarri used Hazard as his vocal point doesn’t mean manager can’t use others.

Ole lost his second highest top scorer and also his highest open play top scorer and he couldn’t replace him so he changed his system to suit with the current players.

The impact whether Ole or Poch is our manager for Chelsea doesn't change, it will still be finishing higher than Chelsea under Lampard. This point still stands until there is enough evidence to counter it.
 

TheMagicFoolBus

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So? It doesn’t mean you can ignore the fact that there are good players in that squad which part of the squad that finished 3rd and won Europa league. Losing Hazard doesn’t prevent manager to find different way to create goals & assists from other players, as long as there are good players in the squad. Just because Sarri used Hazard as his vocal point doesn’t mean manager can’t use others.

Ole lost his second highest top scorer and also his highest open play top scorer and he couldn’t replace him so he changed his system to suit with the current players.
Comparing losing Lukaku to losing Hazard. My goodness.

The impact whether Ole or Poch is our manager for Chelsea doesn't change, it will still be finishing higher than Chelsea under Lampard. This point still stands until there is enough evidence to counter it.
:lol: :lol: :lol: You haven't even made a point here. This is the football supporter's equivalent of "MY DAD CAN BEAT UP YOUR DAD". Glad to see you have a firm grasp on reality at least - I didn't realize that no one could comment on another club in the middle of a season until it's mathematically impossible to finish below them.
 

Silverman

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I can't see Solskjaer being sacked anytime soon so Pochettino will probably have a new job before a vacancy at United opens up.
Last week I was very much Ole out after the two awful performances but I feel we should continue to back Ole for now anyway.

Personally, I wouldn't mind missing out on Poch as I'd prefer someone like Hassenhutl or Rose and really build a free flowing style of play if Solskjaer is leaves.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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Comparing losing Lukaku to losing Hazard. My goodness.
The fact that Lukaku was one of our main player while you had Hazard as your main player pretty much reflect to the team's quality what Ole left with when he took in charge, a team that is not as good as winning Europa League and finished 3rd unlike what Lampard were left with. At least Chelsea board gave something to replace that main player (Pulisic), Ole got nothing to replace that main player.

:lol: :lol: :lol: You haven't even made a point here. This is the football supporter's equivalent of "MY DAD CAN BEAT UP YOUR DAD". Glad to see you have a firm grasp on reality at least - I didn't realize that no one could comment on another club in the middle of a season until it's mathematically impossible to finish below them.
Did Ole finish higher than Lampard last season?
Is Ole winning the h2h?

It's fact I don't know why you are trying to argue with fact.
 

TheMagicFoolBus

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The fact that Lukaku was one of our main player while you had Hazard as your main player pretty much reflect to the team's quality what Ole left with when he took in charge, a team that is not as good as winning Europa League and finished 3rd unlike what Lampard were left with. At least Chelsea board gave something to replace that main player (Pulisic), Ole got nothing to replace that main player.
Well, except for an 80m CB, a 50m RB, and then Bruno. But sure.

Did Ole finish higher than Lampard last season?
Is Ole winning the h2h?

It's fact I don't know why you are trying to argue with fact.
"It will still be finishing higher than Chelsea under Lampard" - I didn't realise you were some sort of prophet who knows the outcome of this season? Also using the outcomes of 5 total matches & an advantage on goal difference as conclusive proof remains utterly comical.

It seems you think that final league position directly corresponds to managerial quality - so you thus think Ole is the 3rd best manager in the league? Or perhaps there are variables and using this kind of reductive "analysis" is absurd?
 

UDontMessWith24

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So? It doesn’t mean you can ignore the fact that there are good players in that squad which part of the squad that finished 3rd and won Europa league. Losing Hazard doesn’t prevent manager to find different way to create goals & assists from other players, as long as there are good players in the squad. Just because Sarri used Hazard as his vocal point doesn’t mean manager can’t use others.

Ole lost his second highest top scorer and also his highest open play top scorer and he couldn’t replace him so he changed his system to suit with the current players.

The impact whether Ole or Poch is our manager for Chelsea doesn't change, it will still be finishing higher than Chelsea under Lampard. This point still stands until there is enough evidence to counter it.
So you've decided in November that we'll automatically finish above Chelsea this season?
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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So you've decided in November that we'll automatically finish above Chelsea this season?
This season is not even mid way, why would I decide such thing.

We were 10 points off from Chelsea exact last year in November and we finished above Chelsea. It's not something I decided, it's something we can take what has been proven before.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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Well, except for an 80m CB, a 50m RB, and then Bruno. But sure.
The two are defenders not top scorer, it doesn't change the fact that we lost our 2nd top scorer and our top scorer in open play and didn't replace him.

Bruno was January signing and started played for us from February, I guess it reflects to why Ole managed to get 14 unbeaten league games run since February. He could have finish with big gaps above Lampard if Bruno was signed from summer.

"It will still be finishing higher than Chelsea under Lampard" - I didn't realise you were some sort of prophet who knows the outcome of this season? Also using the outcomes of 5 total matches & an advantage on goal difference as conclusive proof remains utterly comical.
I never say that will be the outcome of this season. In fact, no one know what's the outcome of this season if we have Poch either so I don't know why you are also scare of him being our manager if you are not scare of Ole. At the end of the day, this is judged based on what the managers have prove themselves before. Poch has proven himself what he's capable of previously to be considered finishing higher than Frank, Ole has proven himself what he's capable of last season to be considered finishing higher than Frank.

It seems you think that final league position directly corresponds to managerial quality - so you thus think Ole is the 3rd best manager in the league? Or perhaps there are variables and using this kind of reductive "analysis" is absurd?
You are totally wrong. Read this again you lazy,

I don’t just use the league position to judge who’s better. I can talk Arteta being better than Lampard due to him have won trophy FA Cup.

When you are comparing the two managers then you compare everything, both Ole and Lampard are trophy-less (although Ole did win in norwegian league but I’ll exclude that from the argument). So what we can use to judge who’s the better manager is their H2h and and how they finished their season last season as it was both first full season with their respective clubs.
 

Gator Nate

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't all the Poch stuff flare up (again) right after PSG lost to Leipzig? Yeah, we lost to Besaksehir, but still...
 

TheMagicFoolBus

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This season is not even mid way, why would I decide such thing.

We were 10 points off from Chelsea exact last year in November and we finished above Chelsea. It's not something I decided, it's something we can take what has been proven before.
One season sample size = proof. Gotcha. I look forward to seeing you finish above us again, since because it happened last year it obviously will happen again this year.

This is up there with some of Treble_Winning's tripe back in the day for the dumbest notions I've seen posted here.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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One season sample size = proof. Gotcha. I look forward to seeing you finish above us again, since because it happened last year it obviously will happen again this year.

This is up there with some of Treble_Winning's tripe back in the day for the dumbest notions I've seen posted here.
Don’t make me repeat myself again. I told you already, when the two manager are being compared, we use everything as valuation but in the current circumstances the only things what available to use as valuation is h2h and last season league position.
 

TheMagicFoolBus

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Don’t make me repeat myself again. I told you already, when the two manager are being compared, we use everything as valuation but in the current circumstances the only things what available to use as valuation is h2h and last season league position.
Gotcha, so Ole is a better manager than Ancelotti. Or perhaps there are other ways we can look at things that are above the comprehension level of a neanderthal.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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Gotcha, so Ole is a better manager than Ancelotti. Or perhaps there are other ways we can look at things that are above the comprehension level of a neanderthal.
Read this again you lazy, stop pretending you even read my post because it’s so clear you don’t.

I don’t just use the league position to judge who’s better. I can talk Arteta being better than Lampard due to him have won trophy FA Cup.

When you are comparing the two managers then you compare everything, both Ole and Lampard are trophy-less (although Ole did win in norwegian league but I’ll exclude that from the argument). So what we can use to judge who’s the better manager is their H2h and and how they finished their season last season as it was both first full season with their respective clubs.
 

TheMagicFoolBus

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Read this again you lazy, stop pretending you even read my post because it’s so clear you don’t.
The point is you are using two categories to compare managers when it's blindingly obvious to anyone that this is a ridiculous and simplistic way of doing so, whilst prattling on about how you're guaranteed to finish above us this season because it happened last year.

I like stats as much as anyone but open your eyes and use your brain. Citing a head to head record of 5 matches like it's some sort of gospel is absurd and would get you laughed out of any stats 101 course.
 

RuudTom83

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I'd see Pochettino appointment as a similar appointment to Moyes. United have tried this approach before, picking a manager that has done okay with a limited team/budget.

The problem is at United you need to be winning something in around 18 months or your place it under threat. Can Poch come in and challenge for the league next season? I honestly dont think so, unless the upper management/structure is changed.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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Erik ten Hag
The point is you are using two categories to compare managers when it's blindingly obvious to anyone that this is a ridiculous and simplistic way of doing so, whilst prattling on about how you're guaranteed to finish above us this season because it happened last year.

I like stats as much as anyone but open your eyes and use your brain. Citing a head to head record of 5 matches like it's some sort of gospel is absurd and would get you laughed out of any stats 101 course.
So why did I use different category when I compare Lampard and Arteta then?

Exactly, I don’t use two categories to compare, I use everything what’s available to compare managers.