Is Poch really the answer?

[tenpoless]

I just want another club to hurry up and hire him so we actually hire someone more fitting to what we want.

And what do we want? at least Poch would not require different type of players than what we have now.

Whoever replaces Ole (if he does get replaced) need to be somebody who could work with and improve on top of what we've got. Poch fits that criteria for me. Whether a manager would fail or succeed is always a gamble. So first priority should be a manager who does not require 300m+ just to start.

The changes from Moyes (scotland boy who landed a jackpot) to LvG (horny possessive maniac) to Jose (manly football without creativity and posession) costed us loads of money. We sold them players like vegetables because the next managers didnt like or couldnt work with what they got. It took a year just so they could say 'this is my team'. Years wasted 'rebuilding'.

Ole also did this rebuilding.

 

[Judas]

For me personally, character wise and more importantly football style wise, Poch isn't the man. He's not that special, he's not the saviour, and there's much more interesting options, who Id much rather go for, even if they fail, its more exciting in every department than dull dull Poch.

Poch would still require plenty of changes for his "style", and to do that for football which isn't all that, isn't attacking, is moronic to me.

 

[Pav1878]

He was never close to winning the PL, which season was he close?

Also, the were not close to winning the CL either, they didnt look like they were competing in the final, lost it without any real fight. Its like saying we were close in 2011, when in reality we were never really close

That's simply not true. Spurs had more possession, more shots and more shots on target. Hardly a team that weren't in the game. They got unluck with an early soft penalty as I recall but couldn't find a way through. It happens.

My point is you can't say Poch hasn't won anything and so shouldn't be hired, because Klopp hadn't won anything of note before Dortmund hired him. Zidane hadn't won anything when Madrid hired him, same with guardiola.

 

[Judas]

Spurs never looked like winning that CL final, anyone who watched it and thinks otherwise is kidding themselves, don't care about the stats. They never looked likely it was a pathetic display.

 

[romufc]

That's simply not true. Spurs had more possession, more shots and more shots on target. Hardly a team that weren't in the game. They got unluck with an early soft penalty as I recall but couldn't find a way through. It happens.

My point is you can't say Poch hasn't won anything and so shouldn't be hired, because Klopp hadn't won anything of note before Dortmund hired him. Zidane hadn't won anything when Madrid hired him, same with guardiola.

Possession doesnt mean much, Liverpool went ahead early and said we will sit and break us down. That is how you play a final though.

I agree on the point that you cannot not hire a manager just because of that, a lot of things need to be looked at. Also, just because Di Matteo and Martinez won trophies, does it mean they are good enough? No.

Poch has never been in charge of a club where he is meant to win trophies, what he has done however is improve the clubs he has taken over and also left them in a good place.

 

[Strelok]

Imo Poch has two issues that make big clubs reluctant to approach him:

1. He's never ever managed a top club with many super stars with big ego. Handling those is actually a very difficult and head scratching job. He's also never faced huge pressure yet.

2. His records against the top teams are pretty wank. Despite having a pretty decent team with many quality players.

But imo he'd be a perfect fit for us. Top 4 and a tight budget. Ole has phased out almost all the overpaid deadwood. Pogba is no longer considered untouchable. We now have a pretty young, hard working and hungry squad. Poch would do well here I think.

 

[jackal&hyde]

His record against the top clubs, coming second best even when favorite (against Leicester) and losing the dressing room the way he did at the end are major issues I would have. His success rate in the transfer market is also poor.

He has his qualities no doubt, but I see just as many issues as I see benefits and so I would only think about it if/when the current manager loses the dressing room or the squad is no longer progressing over a period of time.

 

[Nikelesh Reddy]

It seems inevitable that if Ole is to be sacked, Poch will get the job. No doubt he is a better coach than Ole and I am not going to be discussing about his lack of trophies and everything. But it seems some really have a wrong notion that this guy has his team play some swashbuckling football which dominates big teams like City or Liverpool. I wouldn't say his style is boring but is he really what the fans want in terms of style of play.

I really liked watching Spurs play when Pochettino was in charge,and in my opinion he has all the attributes to be a successful manutd manager...

 

[SuperiorXI]

No, the answer is new owners invested in United winning trophies, Owners that want to put money in rather than take it out. A new DOF would also help for long term success.

 

[Rolaholic]

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I've feared him going to City if ever Pep were to leave sometime soon

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

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I've feared him going to City if ever Pep were to leave sometime soon

What's the likelihood of Pep leaving City after this season? I imagine City would have an agreement with Pochettino to take over once they know Guardiola won't be renwing

 

[Rolaholic]

What's the likelihood of Pep leaving City after this season? I imagine City would have an agreement with Pochettino to take over once they know Guardiola won't be renwing

Given their form, I wouldn't say it's unlikely but that's with Messi's status still being unknown. No doubt in my mind he stays if Messi gets the move he pushed for during the summer next year.

You're likely right though about things being planned well ahead if ever they had any inkling that Pep was on his way out. They'd have an agreement with his successor, possible Poch, lined up in advance of any exit announcement like they did when Pep replacing Pellegrini was made official months before his final season finished.

 

[RedSky]

I'd be concerned that the football Poch would want us to play is precisely the type of football we shouldn't be playing in a hectic schedule. His Tottenham teams tended to fizzle out of form and condition in a normal season, just imagine how fecked our players would be after a month or so of Poch football. No thanks.

I have no doubt however that Woodward will be enticed by his high profile name and we'll probably go for him if Ole continues to struggle and I have no doubt it'll be another disappointing Managerial appointment.

 

[roonster09]

I'd be concerned that the football Poch would want us to play is precisely the type of football we shouldn't be playing in a hectic schedule. His Tottenham teams tended to fizzle out of form and condition in a normal season, just imagine how fecked our players would be after a month or so of Poch football. No thanks.

I have no doubt however that Woodward will be enticed by his high profile name and we'll probably go for him if Ole continues to struggle and I have no doubt it'll be another disappointing Managerial appointment.

He will have bigger and better squad isn't it? Which means he can rotate the team much better than he did/could at Spurs.

 

[Lord SInister]

At this point, I am not sure who is the answer.
If Mourinho couldn't be the answer, it is difficult to thing, who could be the so called answer.

 

[RedSky]

He will have bigger and better squad isn't it? Which means he can rotate the team much better than he did/could at Spurs.

I steel feel he had a better/bigger squad at Tottenham then we do as of now. If you look at his results, the last 10 league games of each season is pretty poor, he had one good finish to a season when the pressure was off.

 

[VP89]

He will have bigger and better squad isn't it? Which means he can rotate the team much better than he did/could at Spurs.

True, plus with Spurs I think him it took him a season to actually implement his style anyway. Wherever he goes I don't think it just clicks into gear after a few weeks

 

[RedSky]

At this point, I am not sure who is the answer.
If Mourinho couldn't be the answer, it is difficult to thing, who could be the so called answer.

Safe option imo would be Allegri. He's got the experience, won trophies and titles, developed young players. He ticks all the boxes for me, with the exception of his football perhaps not being totally enjoyable to watch.

Jose was clearly a risk, you can point to his amazing CV and say he was a safe bet, but he came with so much baggage from the Chelsea disaster. Honestly, a lot of us on here said he'd end up being a disaster.

 

[Bird Nerd]

He is a better option than Ole. And when Poch takes over just make Ole director of football since his rebuild is going so well.

 

[VP89]

Safe option imo would be Allegri. He's got the experience, won trophies and titles, developed young players. He ticks all the boxes for me, with the exception of his football perhaps not being totally enjoyable to watch.

Jose was clearly a risk, you can point to his amazing CV and say he was a safe bet, but he came with so much baggage from the Chelsea disaster. Honestly, a lot of us on here said he'd end up being a disaster.

He's been out of management a long time hasn't he..

 

[RedSky]

True, plus with Spurs I think him it took him a season to actually implement his style anyway. Wherever he goes I don't think it just clicks into gear after a few weeks

All of the below is the season run in counting from gameweek 28 onwards. Took till Season 3 to actually sustain their league form and it lasted 2 seasons. Not sure our fans would have the patience to have another 2 average seasons given he also has a very poor record against the big clubs. If you're going with Pochettino then it's a long term investment imo.

Season 1:
League - 4 wins, 2 draws, 4 losses. Win Rate = 40%

Season 2: Title challenge, utterly bottled
League - 4 wins, 4 draws, 2 losses. Win Rate = 40%
Europa - 2 losses (Dortmund, lose 5-1 on agg).

Season 3: Title challenge
League - 9 wins, 0 draws, 1 loss. Win Rate = 90%
FA Cup - 1 loss (Chelsea, lost 4-2)

Season 4:
League - 7 wins, 1 draw, 2 losses. Win Rate = 70%
Champions League - 1 loss (Juventus, 2-1)
FA Cup - 1 win (beat Swansea 3-0) and lost to United (2-1)

Season 5:
League - 3 wins, 2 draws, 5 losses. Win Rate = 30%
Reached the Champions League final, beating Dortmund, City, Ajax finally losing to Liverpool.

 

[VP89]

All of the below is the season run in counting from gameweek 28 onwards. Took till Season 3 to actually sustain their league form and it lasted 2 seasons. Not sure our fans would have the patience to have another 2 average seasons given he also has a very poor record against the big clubs. If you're going with Pochettino then it's a long term investment imo.

Season 1:
League - 4 wins, 2 draws, 4 losses. Win Rate = 40%

Season 2: Title challenge, utterly bottled
League - 4 wins, 4 draws, 2 losses. Win Rate = 40%
Europa - 2 losses (Dortmund, lose 5-1 on agg).

Season 3: Title challenge
League - 9 wins, 0 draws, 1 loss. Win Rate = 90%
FA Cup - 1 loss (Chelsea, lost 4-2)

Season 4:
League - 7 wins, 1 draw, 2 losses. Win Rate = 70%
Champions League - 1 loss (Juventus, 2-1)
FA Cup - 1 win (beat Swansea 3-0) and lost to United (2-1)

Season 5:
League - 3 wins, 2 draws, 5 losses. Win Rate = 30%
Reached the Champions League final, beating Dortmund, City, Ajax finally losing to Liverpool.

We'd buy into a process if we aren't the same as where we were 2 years ago. So long as we aren't compromising on Champions League positions, which I think is very attainable with a deeper squad like ours + greater financial backing in summer windows than what he was accustomed to with Sprus.

 

[RedSky]

He's been out of management a long time hasn't he..

Left Juventus on 26th May 2019. So he's had just over a year out. He's being linked to all the major clubs, Chelsea, United, PSG, Madrid. He appartently turned down Dortmund, no idea if thats true.

 

[RedSky]

We'd buy into a process if we aren't the same as where we were 2 years ago. So long as we aren't compromising on Champions League positions, which I think is very attainable with a deeper squad like ours + greater financial backing in summer windows than what he was accustomed to with Sprus.

Why do you think we have a deeper squad? We only have 4 attacking forwards of any real merit and one of those is a 33 year old and the other is a rookie 19 year old. We don't have depth, thats been the big problem.

 

[roonster09]

I steel feel he had a better/bigger squad at Tottenham then we do as of now. If you look at his results, the last 10 league games of each season is pretty poor, he had one good finish to a season when the pressure was off.

Interesting, I didnt check the results.

 

[RedSky]

Interesting, I didnt check the results.

To be fair, I got it wrong myself. I thought his 3rd season was the pressure free one, but actually they were challenging for the title against Chelsea. They had bombed out of Europe before that though so could focus on the league and their 1 FA Cup match which they lost. Either way, they finished poorly in the league in 3 of his 5 seasons. Below 50% win rate is pretty poor for a top Manager. Just highlights my biggest concern with him that when the chips are down and his teams always fold.

 

[Champagne Football]

Pochettino is every bit as good as Pep. His next club will be a club that can win trophies and he will easily win stuff once he's at a big club. I can see him rocking up at City next year with Pep maybe taking a year off or something, or PSG if Tuchel decides that beating all your league opponents by at least 5 goals every game is boring and needs a new challenge.

My only criticism with Poch is that he downed tools at Spurs once he felt he had taken them as far as he could, and was sort of waiting for his large severance package before being on his way. He felt off the back of their miracle run to the final that he'd walk into a job at Man Utd or Arsenal or Chelsea. But it looks bad when a manager downs tools like that. It's a Jose Mourinho special. It suggests they'd have no problem doing it again at another club if they felt Madrid suddenly came fluttering their eyelashes at him if he was doing well at another PL club..

An OGS would never do that at Utd, A Lampard would never do that at Chelsea and an Arteta would never do that at Arsenal. So I think the board are fully behind Ole now, fully behind a project that will see perhaps Diallo and Garner challenge for a first team spot next season, instead of some big name manager come in and demand 150 million to sign big name stars.

 

[VP89]

Why do you think we have a deeper squad? We only have 4 attacking forwards of any real merit and one of those is a 33 year old and the other is a rookie 19 year old. We don't have depth, thats been the big problem.

Because I think he can utilize players to help advanced roles if it came to it (VDB), and I think he has his fair share of ball winning midfielders, a deep lying playmaker, a competitive area for creative 10s and good options at full back.

The way I understood Poch he relies very much on a pressing system and really likes to win the midfield battles specifically. He has so much available to him that he did not initially have with Spurs, which he had to go on to build as they acquired Delli Ali, Dier, Wanyama, Sissoko etc.

I feel he already has big talent at his disposal with the current crop of United players, whilst yes, granting that he will be relatively limited in attack. But remember at Spurs when Kane was out he had to play Son in a false 9 and then he had little else out of Llorente. Here the depth in quality even in attack is better.

 

[Strelok]

At this point, I am not sure who is the answer.
If Mourinho couldn't be the answer, it is difficult to thing, who could be the so called answer.

Don't worry. We can name our next 'The Answer One'.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

The answer is to look at United as fundamentally flawed (for a football club with our history and resources).

Which particular fecker is gambled on as the "manager" seems to make little difference. That's what I take from the Woodward era, anyway.

If a fellow United fan were to tell me that sacking Ole and replacing him with Poch would be a move in the right direction...I would, oh I dunno, shrug and say "sure, sure", I guess.

If another fellow United fan were to tell me that it makes feck all difference who we appoint as manager - unless that person is an absolute genius, or some kind of superhero - then I'd shrug and say "sure, sure" too. But I'd be slightly more sincere with my shrugging and whatnot.

If yet another fellow United fan were to tell me that Poch is an absolute genius, or some kind of superhero, I'd tell him or her to feck off and bother someone else with their fan fiction tales.

 

[roonster09]

To be fair, I got it wrong myself. I thought his 3rd season was the pressure free one, but actually they were challenging for the title against Chelsea. They had bombed out of Europe before that though so could focus on the league and their 1 FA Cup match which they lost. Either way, they finished poorly in the league in 3 of his 5 seasons. Below 50% win rate is pretty poor for a top Manager. Just highlights my biggest concern with him that when the chips are down and his teams always fold.

I didn't do end of season analysis like you did, I remember Walker saying Poch fitness methods mean they are lot fresher than others at the business end which gives them advantage.

Now checking the stats you posted, it's average. Hopefully he will improve on that if he becomes our manager.

 

[macheda14]

I mean the one thing we can hope if he were to come here, is that during his year off he's been having a think critically about his career so far, what he can change and how. I don't for one second believe he will come into a side and be exactly the same manager as at Spurs, he will definitely be rueing the fact he didn't win anything with them.