Is Poch really the answer?

Imo Poch has two issues that make big clubs reluctant to approach him:

1. He's never ever managed a top club with many super stars with big ego. Handling those is actually a very difficult and head scratching job. He's also never faced huge pressure yet.

2. His records against the top teams are pretty wank. Despite having a pretty decent team with many quality players.

But imo he'd be a perfect fit for us. Top 4 and a tight budget. Ole has phased out almost all the overpaid deadwood. Pogba is no longer considered untouchable. We now have a pretty young, hard working and hungry squad. Poch would do well here I think.
 
His record against the top clubs, coming second best even when favorite (against Leicester) and losing the dressing room the way he did at the end are major issues I would have. His success rate in the transfer market is also poor.

He has his qualities no doubt, but I see just as many issues as I see benefits and so I would only think about it if/when the current manager loses the dressing room or the squad is no longer progressing over a period of time.
 
AshRK said:
It seems inevitable that if Ole is to be sacked, Poch will get the job. No doubt he is a better coach than Ole and I am not going to be discussing about his lack of trophies and everything. But it seems some really have a wrong notion that this guy has his team play some swashbuckling football which dominates big teams like City or Liverpool. I wouldn't say his style is boring but is he really what the fans want in terms of style of play.
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I really liked watching Spurs play when Pochettino was in charge,and in my opinion he has all the attributes to be a successful manutd manager...
 
No, the answer is new owners invested in United winning trophies, Owners that want to put money in rather than take it out. A new DOF would also help for long term success.
 
Rolaholic said:


I've feared him going to City if ever Pep were to leave sometime soon
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What's the likelihood of Pep leaving City after this season? I imagine City would have an agreement with Pochettino to take over once they know Guardiola won't be renwing
 
jamesjimmybyrondean said:
What's the likelihood of Pep leaving City after this season? I imagine City would have an agreement with Pochettino to take over once they know Guardiola won't be renwing
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Given their form, I wouldn't say it's unlikely but that's with Messi's status still being unknown. No doubt in my mind he stays if Messi gets the move he pushed for during the summer next year.

You're likely right though about things being planned well ahead if ever they had any inkling that Pep was on his way out. They'd have an agreement with his successor, possible Poch, lined up in advance of any exit announcement like they did when Pep replacing Pellegrini was made official months before his final season finished.
 
I'd be concerned that the football Poch would want us to play is precisely the type of football we shouldn't be playing in a hectic schedule. His Tottenham teams tended to fizzle out of form and condition in a normal season, just imagine how fecked our players would be after a month or so of Poch football. No thanks.

I have no doubt however that Woodward will be enticed by his high profile name and we'll probably go for him if Ole continues to struggle and I have no doubt it'll be another disappointing Managerial appointment.
 
RedSky said:
I'd be concerned that the football Poch would want us to play is precisely the type of football we shouldn't be playing in a hectic schedule. His Tottenham teams tended to fizzle out of form and condition in a normal season, just imagine how fecked our players would be after a month or so of Poch football. No thanks.

I have no doubt however that Woodward will be enticed by his high profile name and we'll probably go for him if Ole continues to struggle and I have no doubt it'll be another disappointing Managerial appointment.
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He will have bigger and better squad isn't it? Which means he can rotate the team much better than he did/could at Spurs.
 
roonster09 said:
He will have bigger and better squad isn't it? Which means he can rotate the team much better than he did/could at Spurs.
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I steel feel he had a better/bigger squad at Tottenham then we do as of now. If you look at his results, the last 10 league games of each season is pretty poor, he had one good finish to a season when the pressure was off.
 
roonster09 said:
He will have bigger and better squad isn't it? Which means he can rotate the team much better than he did/could at Spurs.
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True, plus with Spurs I think him it took him a season to actually implement his style anyway. Wherever he goes I don't think it just clicks into gear after a few weeks
 
Lord SInister said:
At this point, I am not sure who is the answer.
If Mourinho couldn't be the answer, it is difficult to thing, who could be the so called answer.
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Safe option imo would be Allegri. He's got the experience, won trophies and titles, developed young players. He ticks all the boxes for me, with the exception of his football perhaps not being totally enjoyable to watch.

Jose was clearly a risk, you can point to his amazing CV and say he was a safe bet, but he came with so much baggage from the Chelsea disaster. Honestly, a lot of us on here said he'd end up being a disaster.
 
He is a better option than Ole. And when Poch takes over just make Ole director of football since his rebuild is going so well.
 
RedSky said:
Safe option imo would be Allegri. He's got the experience, won trophies and titles, developed young players. He ticks all the boxes for me, with the exception of his football perhaps not being totally enjoyable to watch.

Jose was clearly a risk, you can point to his amazing CV and say he was a safe bet, but he came with so much baggage from the Chelsea disaster. Honestly, a lot of us on here said he'd end up being a disaster.
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He's been out of management a long time hasn't he..
 
VP89 said:
True, plus with Spurs I think him it took him a season to actually implement his style anyway. Wherever he goes I don't think it just clicks into gear after a few weeks
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All of the below is the season run in counting from gameweek 28 onwards. Took till Season 3 to actually sustain their league form and it lasted 2 seasons. Not sure our fans would have the patience to have another 2 average seasons given he also has a very poor record against the big clubs. If you're going with Pochettino then it's a long term investment imo.

Season 1:
League - 4 wins, 2 draws, 4 losses. Win Rate = 40%

Season 2: Title challenge, utterly bottled
League - 4 wins, 4 draws, 2 losses. Win Rate = 40%
Europa - 2 losses (Dortmund, lose 5-1 on agg).

Season 3: Title challenge
League - 9 wins, 0 draws, 1 loss. Win Rate = 90%
FA Cup - 1 loss (Chelsea, lost 4-2)

Season 4:
League - 7 wins, 1 draw, 2 losses. Win Rate = 70%
Champions League - 1 loss (Juventus, 2-1)
FA Cup - 1 win (beat Swansea 3-0) and lost to United (2-1)

Season 5:
League - 3 wins, 2 draws, 5 losses. Win Rate = 30%
Reached the Champions League final, beating Dortmund, City, Ajax finally losing to Liverpool.
 
RedSky said:
All of the below is the season run in counting from gameweek 28 onwards. Took till Season 3 to actually sustain their league form and it lasted 2 seasons. Not sure our fans would have the patience to have another 2 average seasons given he also has a very poor record against the big clubs. If you're going with Pochettino then it's a long term investment imo.

Season 1:
League - 4 wins, 2 draws, 4 losses. Win Rate = 40%

Season 2: Title challenge, utterly bottled
League - 4 wins, 4 draws, 2 losses. Win Rate = 40%
Europa - 2 losses (Dortmund, lose 5-1 on agg).

Season 3: Title challenge
League - 9 wins, 0 draws, 1 loss. Win Rate = 90%
FA Cup - 1 loss (Chelsea, lost 4-2)

Season 4:
League - 7 wins, 1 draw, 2 losses. Win Rate = 70%
Champions League - 1 loss (Juventus, 2-1)
FA Cup - 1 win (beat Swansea 3-0) and lost to United (2-1)

Season 5:
League - 3 wins, 2 draws, 5 losses. Win Rate = 30%
Reached the Champions League final, beating Dortmund, City, Ajax finally losing to Liverpool.
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We'd buy into a process if we aren't the same as where we were 2 years ago. So long as we aren't compromising on Champions League positions, which I think is very attainable with a deeper squad like ours + greater financial backing in summer windows than what he was accustomed to with Sprus.
 
VP89 said:
We'd buy into a process if we aren't the same as where we were 2 years ago. So long as we aren't compromising on Champions League positions, which I think is very attainable with a deeper squad like ours + greater financial backing in summer windows than what he was accustomed to with Sprus.
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Why do you think we have a deeper squad? We only have 4 attacking forwards of any real merit and one of those is a 33 year old and the other is a rookie 19 year old. We don't have depth, thats been the big problem.
 
RedSky said:
I steel feel he had a better/bigger squad at Tottenham then we do as of now. If you look at his results, the last 10 league games of each season is pretty poor, he had one good finish to a season when the pressure was off.
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Interesting, I didnt check the results.
 
roonster09 said:
Interesting, I didnt check the results.
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To be fair, I got it wrong myself. I thought his 3rd season was the pressure free one, but actually they were challenging for the title against Chelsea. They had bombed out of Europe before that though so could focus on the league and their 1 FA Cup match which they lost. Either way, they finished poorly in the league in 3 of his 5 seasons. Below 50% win rate is pretty poor for a top Manager. Just highlights my biggest concern with him that when the chips are down and his teams always fold.
 
Pochettino is every bit as good as Pep. His next club will be a club that can win trophies and he will easily win stuff once he's at a big club. I can see him rocking up at City next year with Pep maybe taking a year off or something, or PSG if Tuchel decides that beating all your league opponents by at least 5 goals every game is boring and needs a new challenge.

My only criticism with Poch is that he downed tools at Spurs once he felt he had taken them as far as he could, and was sort of waiting for his large severance package before being on his way. He felt off the back of their miracle run to the final that he'd walk into a job at Man Utd or Arsenal or Chelsea. But it looks bad when a manager downs tools like that. It's a Jose Mourinho special. It suggests they'd have no problem doing it again at another club if they felt Madrid suddenly came fluttering their eyelashes at him if he was doing well at another PL club..

An OGS would never do that at Utd, A Lampard would never do that at Chelsea and an Arteta would never do that at Arsenal. So I think the board are fully behind Ole now, fully behind a project that will see perhaps Diallo and Garner challenge for a first team spot next season, instead of some big name manager come in and demand 150 million to sign big name stars.
 
RedSky said:
Why do you think we have a deeper squad? We only have 4 attacking forwards of any real merit and one of those is a 33 year old and the other is a rookie 19 year old. We don't have depth, thats been the big problem.
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Because I think he can utilize players to help advanced roles if it came to it (VDB), and I think he has his fair share of ball winning midfielders, a deep lying playmaker, a competitive area for creative 10s and good options at full back.

The way I understood Poch he relies very much on a pressing system and really likes to win the midfield battles specifically. He has so much available to him that he did not initially have with Spurs, which he had to go on to build as they acquired Delli Ali, Dier, Wanyama, Sissoko etc.

I feel he already has big talent at his disposal with the current crop of United players, whilst yes, granting that he will be relatively limited in attack. But remember at Spurs when Kane was out he had to play Son in a false 9 and then he had little else out of Llorente. Here the depth in quality even in attack is better.
 
The answer is to look at United as fundamentally flawed (for a football club with our history and resources).

Which particular fecker is gambled on as the "manager" seems to make little difference. That's what I take from the Woodward era, anyway.

If a fellow United fan were to tell me that sacking Ole and replacing him with Poch would be a move in the right direction...I would, oh I dunno, shrug and say "sure, sure", I guess.

If another fellow United fan were to tell me that it makes feck all difference who we appoint as manager - unless that person is an absolute genius, or some kind of superhero - then I'd shrug and say "sure, sure" too. But I'd be slightly more sincere with my shrugging and whatnot.

If yet another fellow United fan were to tell me that Poch is an absolute genius, or some kind of superhero, I'd tell him or her to feck off and bother someone else with their fan fiction tales.
 
RedSky said:
To be fair, I got it wrong myself. I thought his 3rd season was the pressure free one, but actually they were challenging for the title against Chelsea. They had bombed out of Europe before that though so could focus on the league and their 1 FA Cup match which they lost. Either way, they finished poorly in the league in 3 of his 5 seasons. Below 50% win rate is pretty poor for a top Manager. Just highlights my biggest concern with him that when the chips are down and his teams always fold.
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I didn't do end of season analysis like you did, I remember Walker saying Poch fitness methods mean they are lot fresher than others at the business end which gives them advantage.

Now checking the stats you posted, it's average. Hopefully he will improve on that if he becomes our manager.
 
I mean the one thing we can hope if he were to come here, is that during his year off he's been having a think critically about his career so far, what he can change and how. I don't for one second believe he will come into a side and be exactly the same manager as at Spurs, he will definitely be rueing the fact he didn't win anything with them.
 
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