Is Pogba as good as gone?

Withnail

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Think they were the first with Poch sacked, think it’s more off the back of him pissing around for 2 months and wanting out at the same time.
He's injured and the Mail, who I don't think are very reliable anyway, quote a Spanish radio station Cope, so it's not even their story.

I'd be very surprised if he wasn't back playing in December or was sold in January.

Radio station in Spain gets the inside scoop from Old Trafford... seems like a fabricated story to me.
 

Florida Man

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I don't get the over the top hate for Pogba. Like so many fans take it so personally. In this day and age, no club in this world is entitled to have utmost loyalty from star players or any player for that matter. If the guy wants to win trophies and is good enough to play for clubs that consistently do, then he can do that. You also have to consider the context of the current state of the club. We're kind of trash from upper management to football management, to at least half the squad. And there's no clear sign that we're going to make the big moves to get our shit together and start competing again. So unless you are a die hard fan of the club, why would you compromise your career to persist with the status quo? Personally speaking, I sure as feck wouldn't, and I'm a fan.

All that said, I'm still extremely frustrated with how his tenure turned out here. I really expected better but this guy's time here is done sooner or later.
 

Jaqen H'ghar

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I don't care how talented he is, what he proved while playing for Juve or France. He hasn't shown it here, which is what counts for me as a United fan.

He's had the time and been played every where in the midfield, tactics built around him, and we still can't work out what brings out the best in him.

He's inconsistent on the pitch, a distraction off it. His attitude is questionable. When he's in the news chances are it's not to talk about his man of the match performances, his brilliant stats or any of that.

He's not the player who's going to take us up a level. He's been a distraction and I just feel like he has to go so we can be done and sort out our other problems.
 

Hawks2008

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Cannot wait til we sell him and replace him with Longstaff. No more evil liar man Pogba and we get someone who will run lots for the team and bleeds red.
 

Adisa

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This is bizarre. He is injured. Can't you guys take a break?
 

Withnail

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mate you joking ?
Who do you think he let’s down with his behaviour, with his downing of tools and not giving a damn about the club ? It certainly isn’t his bank manager or rat of an agent is it ?
Pogba was delighted when he was instrumental in getting Jose the sack but did he care that his constant underperformance ( remember the stat that he had misplaced more passes than any other player in the prem ) rocking the boat and creating conflict cost the club points and his teammates a chance to play in the champs lge
What about these stats?


He's clearly been our most creative player. As for downed tools, the whole team went to sh*t so I'm not sure why he's been singled out over the everyone else.

The Pogba hate is getting very tiresome and these conspiracy theories about his injury are just silly.
 

Judas

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Baffles me why fans cant see Pogba as a failed transfer.

Incredible really.

Insane fee, insane wages and the guys form/commitment/attitude have warranted nothing but criticism.

He's egotistical, over hyped and believes in his own self worth more than anything else.

I've never been a fan of his coming back, and am absolutely sick of debating over this guy. He's shown at times glimpses, but never more. He's never grown into the player we hoped he would and he's caused way more problems than he's solved. Hell, we changed formations and signed players to "get the best out of him" and he's still been bang average.

He's been an absolute flop here for the 2nd time. We've put up with him for "marketing reasons" and cashed in on his name and shirt sales. Footballing wise, it's hard to justify.

He's been angling for a move for nearly 2 seasons yet sections of our fans still adore him and cant see a future without him. Time to wake up and move on
That's completely your fault though, because that Pogba has never existed. What we've seen is Paul Pogba, this is the player he is. You can't be angry that he's not turned into some imaginary version that fans created. This is what we were always going to get especially when you put him in a team that has never really been of the required level.

The stats as the post above show really speak very differently about him at this club than many on here do in terms of impact on the pitch.
 

Craig Ward

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That's completely your fault though, because that Pogba has never existed. What we've seen is Paul Pogba, this is the player he is. You can't be angry that he's not turned into some imaginary version that fans created. This is what we were always going to get especially when you put him in a team that has never really been of the required level.

The stats as the post above show really speak very differently about him at this club than many on here do in terms of impact on the pitch.
So we should expect a 90 million pound midfielder with fantastic talent and ability to perform sub-par because we should expect to much from him?

Utter nonsense. A player is signed for many reasons, Pogba was signed for more than 1, he was a marketing dream, he was obviously playing at a high level but he was also signed to be the driving force of our midfield. He's going to leave a worse player than he arrived.

So yeah - he's failed.
 

elánius

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So we should expect a 90 million pound midfielder with fantastic talent and ability to perform sub-par because we should expect to much from him?

Utter nonsense. A player is signed for many reasons, Pogba was signed for more than 1, he was a marketing dream, he was obviously playing at a high level but he was also signed to be the driving force of our midfield. He's going to leave a worse player than he arrived.

So yeah - he's failed.
This is just not true and its really funny to even talk about it. Pogba sub-par? He was our best player last season, season he played after he won world cup with France and Mourinho was trying to make him a scapegoat. Most goal, most asists, most chances created and most of the time he played out of his position, same he does for Ole this season. Pogba haters are weird people. Without him we are mid table team. With him we can fight for top4. Simple as that.
 

JPRouve

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So we should expect a 90 million pound midfielder with fantastic talent and ability to perform sub-par because we should expect to much from him?

Utter nonsense. A player is signed for many reasons, Pogba was signed for more than 1, he was a marketing dream, he was obviously playing at a high level but he was also signed to be the driving force of our midfield. He's going to leave a worse player than he arrived.

So yeah - he's failed.
Pogba hasn't performed subpar though, since 2016 he has been performing like one of the best CMs in the league. And your second sentence is where problems start, Pogba has never been the driving force of any midfield and he never really had the characteristic to be one, he is also better today than he was with Juventus or France prior to 2016.

The thing about Pogba is that he wasn't worth 90m and he was overrated by people that clearly didn't watch him play regularly.
 

Focusmate

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just want the saga over with but this could easily drag on and on.
no doubt he has an injury but i said at the start of the season i suspected he wouldnt play a lot this year and the optics of him in Dubai bumping into Zidane and living it up in Florida are just terrible.
Has any other injured player ever had a gap year to travel and recover?
Best case scenario for United is that Real come in in Jan or June with a big offer.
If not I can see Pogba and Raiola kicking off to lower his price tag and force a move.
Can easily imagine that he doesn't play again.
Either way he leaves with no good will from me. Sadly Id prefer he drops into obscurity.
The club and fans backed him over the manager and the last 12 months is his way of repaying the faith.
 

The_Order

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I’m a bit tired of this debate. He said to a reporter, at the beginning of the summer, that it may be time for a new challenge. I accept that. I’m not in denial about this.

I think the significance of that comment is being overstated by a section of fans. I have an issue with the degree to which a lot of our fans just ‘don’t like’ Pogba, at least on here. I think that once you are in such a position, everything that happens in real life seems to be seen through a certain prism, and something like Pogba saying it may be time for a new challenge is gold - real tangible evidence to validate their dislike. Before the comments, he was already being sworn at and abused by some United fans on the pitch. SINCE the comments, I have seen little to suggest he’s unwilling to see out his contract and do his job. For a different player, that may be seen enough perhaps. But for Pogba, we can’t let this go, because we actually have something beyond conjecture now to use to validate our dislike.

Now why does it bother me so personally? It bothers me because, football and riches aside, I see myself as a person with a similar profile as Pogba - and some of the abuse, and speculative theory about his character, feel very familiar to me. The ease at which he is summarised as having an ‘attitude problem’ is something a lot of other young black folk can relate to, especially women tbh, but men too. When looking at the tangible evidence, there is nothing to suggest he has an attitude problem to me. But it takes a lot less to earn that label for a Pogba. He is ‘lazy’, he’s ‘selfish’ - and I think those labels are unfair and without real basis other than a certain demographic being ‘lazy’ themselves with their labelling. I think if this were not football, it would be a lot less acceptable. As for his personal interests, the extent of his crimes seems to be that he enjoys dancing, with his brothers, in his own home and flash hairstyles. Music, dancing and hairstyles that the likes of Graeme Souness obviously cannot relate to, and clearly offends them.

Now to the football itself. The extent to which he has been ‘poor’ is massively overstated in my opinion. He’s always 2 or 3 below par games away from having had a ‘terrible season’. That’s largely due to the fact that he’s Paul Pogba, and good performances only serve to quiet people temporarily, and we are Manchester United, and so long as we are seen as a collective to be underachieving, individuals will be seen through that prism. The same applies to Martial. Even when he’s playing well, he’s always a few games away from being summarised by pundits in a way that Rashford is not. On this forum, I read all day about what more people want from Pogba the footballer. What he CANNOT do. I do accept those things. What bothers me is the lack of time for what he CAN do. I think people want him to be Lionel Messi and win games on his own for us weekly. I don’t think he will do that, but he will create chances regularly. Even defensively, I think he has many a game where he has great running stats. He is not a Scott McTominay or Darren Fletcher off the ball. But they are further away from being a Paul Pogba on the ball than he is from being them off it. But that’s okay. Players with a different profile who evoke different emotions also fail to track runners sometimes. They also let people by them sometimes. They also fail to pick a pass very often. There was a goal SWP scored at Old Trafford where he just walks past Paul Scholes, who just about half dangles a leg out. I can imagine the Sky Sports panel if that was Pogba. There would have been many times Scholes let his man go. But let’s forget that. Let’s focus on how brilliant a passer he was. And he was, of course. Willian scored a goal at Old Trafford last season where Scott McTominay totally lost him and let him run off him. It happens. And it doesn’t happen every week with Pogba either.

Bottom line, I think much of the criticism of Pogba, is steeped in, or exaggerated , due to an irrational dislike, that I have a problem with. I think it’s always one rule for him and one for everyone else, and so far in this thread - when challenged, it’s revealed itself quite easily. There was one poster when questioned on his points one
by one, has come up with ‘yea, he only scored about 4 from open play last season’ (we all know it was more), he is a disgrace for wearing a blue streak in his hair in the derby (evidence was shown of when he changed it for France which was dismissed), ‘I was able to watch games with an injured ankle’ and a lot of other weak arguments.

Is Pogba without flaw as a player? Of course not. It he without qualities and strengths? Obviously not. Many seem to want him sold, I want him supplemented. Bottom line is people don’t take to him. That fact has made him a worse footballer than he is in the court of public opinion, amongst a lot of other crimes he is labelled with.
Top Post, were I not tied up currently, there is so much I would love to unpack regarding Pogba and the United fanbase.
 

Svartzonker

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Options:

A) Pogba stays and is commited, extends his contract at some point
B) Pogba leaves for a big fee
C) Real Madrid does not offer a big enough fee and we dont sell, Pogba and fatso rat kicks up a fuzz and refuses to play. We use our option to extend the contract by a year and bury him in the reserves. By the time he gets to sign for another team he would be 28 yo.

He is not faking the injury, thats the most bizarre claim I have ever heard and no reliable source has said that he is a bad teamplayer. I have never seen any player get this much hate amongt us fans based on articles without named authors from fecking daily mail and other crap tabloids. He has not been the star player we all wanted him to be, but he is our best player with a large margin. We play Young, Pereira and Jones quite regulary and we have Woody in charge. Do you really guys think that the transfer fee would go to a replacement? And even if it did would the replacement be any better than Pogba?

Once he gets back I think he will be a great addition to our team, playing infront of McTerminator and Fred.
 

Catt

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Cannot wait til we sell him and replace him with Longstaff. No more evil liar man Pogba and we get someone who will run lots for the team and bleeds red.
I take it we plan to buy Longstaff then.
 

Craig Ward

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Pogba hasn't performed subpar though, since 2016 he has been performing like one of the best CMs in the league. And your second sentence is where problems start, Pogba has never been the driving force of any midfield and he never really had the characteristic to be one, he is also better today than he was with Juventus or France prior to 2016.

The thing about Pogba is that he wasn't worth 90m and he was overrated by people that clearly didn't watch him play regularly.
People who think he's performed at the level of "one of the best cm's in the league" really do have a misguided opinion of Pogba.

When a players hype is bigger than the level of performances he gives, that tells you everything you need to know. His footballing performances for us have not been good enough. He has not had a consistent run of good form for us, ever. Glimpses? Yes. The odd brilliant game? Yes. Overall? Poor

He doesn't have the characteristic to be a driving midfielder? Really?
He's athletic, He's strong, He's got a good engine, He can pass, he can shoot, he's good in the air...……..Whats missing to make him a good midfielder?

Pogba's problem is he doesn't want to do the hard graft. Jose tried him in a 2 because he's technically good enough to be there, but Pogba didn't want put the hard miles in and work hard for the team, put the tackles in, follow runners etc....he proved then while he has all the physical attributes and talent, he hasn't really got a good overall footballing brain (why he was always out of position, doing stupid flicks in the wrong area of the pitch & being caught in possession)

So we tried him in a 3, cos he'll be "world class" in the left of a midfield 3. He's far from world class i'm afraid.

People need to stop believing this guy is the answer to our problems. He's proven he's not.

He wants to leave, so we will never see Pogba come good here, ever. Time to cash in when his hype is high and we can get 100+mil for him. If we get anywhere near 100mil for him we are laughing
 

Bestietom

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I don't care how talented he is, what he proved while playing for Juve or France. He hasn't shown it here, which is what counts for me as a United fan.

He's had the time and been played every where in the midfield, tactics built around him, and we still can't work out what brings out the best in him.

He's inconsistent on the pitch, a distraction off it. His attitude is questionable. When he's in the news chances are it's not to talk about his man of the match performances, his brilliant stats or any of that.

He's not the player who's going to take us up a level. He's been a distraction and I just feel like he has to go so we can be done and sort out our other problems.
I think it's better all round, the sooner he's gone. 128million will get us a couple of top midfielders to replace him.
 

Denis' cuff

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No wonder Fergie let him @nd his scumbag agent out of his life.


Not faking his “injury”? :lol: Nah, he’d never do such a thing. He just knows that meeting Zidane, by chance, in Dubai and jetting around the world playing basketball is the quickest way back to fitness, so he can give his team a much needed help. Trouble is, he’d just revert to type and play like a self-indulgent 13 year old instead of a so-called world class player in his prime years.

Get rid.

ASAP.
 

RedC

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While I don't pay attention to the tabloid shit, it is weird that he is allowed to essentially be on holidays for so long. I don't see why he isn't in Carrington every day, doing his S&C with our trainers?
 

Adam-Utd

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He just removed his cast and there are videos up of him doing basic strength exercises. Maybe he still want's to go, but fit he is not.
It's like these idiots think he's doing all this to just keep up an act.

He and Ole have hatched a plan so that Pogba can skive off work for 2 months, then get a huge transfer fee in January.

The club are perfectly happy to have their major asset not playing, the club are happy paying his wages while he's faking injury.

Oh and they're happy to sell him In January when we cannot buy a replacement :lol:
 

JPRouve

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People who think he's performed at the level of "one of the best cm's in the league" really do have a misguided opinion of Pogba.

When a players hype is bigger than the level of performances he gives, that tells you everything you need to know. His footballing performances for us have not been good enough. He has not had a consistent run of good form for us, ever. Glimpses? Yes. The odd brilliant game? Yes. Overall? Poor

He doesn't have the characteristic to be a driving midfielder? Really?
He's athletic, He's strong, He's got a good engine, He can pass, he can shoot, he's good in the air...……..Whats missing to make him a good midfielder?

Pogba's problem is he doesn't want to do the hard graft. Jose tried him in a 2 because he's technically good enough to be there, but Pogba didn't want put the hard miles in and work hard for the team, put the tackles in, follow runners etc....he proved then while he has all the physical attributes and talent, he hasn't really got a good overall footballing brain (why he was always out of position, doing stupid flicks in the wrong area of the pitch & being caught in possession)

So we tried him in a 3, cos he'll be "world class" in the left of a midfield 3. He's far from world class i'm afraid.

People need to stop believing this guy is the answer to our problems. He's proven he's not.

He wants to leave, so we will never see Pogba come good here, ever. Time to cash in when his hype is high and we can get 100+mil for him. If we get anywhere near 100mil for him we are laughing
You see the two sentences that I highlighted, you have the question and the answer. Pogba has never been tactically astute, he isn't particularly composed and therefore inconsistent within the same game. It's not new, it was known before June 2016 and that's why people like @kouroux and I thought that a lot of people overrated him and would be on his back when they realize that the player that they imagined doesn't exist.
Now the perplexing thing is that you actually have the answer but for some reason, you refuse to simply accept it. Pogba wasn't worth 90m when we bought him, at least not for a team that needed a midfiedl general. Pogba is the cherry on the cake, not the cake itself.
 

Eric's Seagull

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No wonder Fergie let him @nd his scumbag agent out of his life.


Not faking his “injury”? :lol: Nah, he’d never do such a thing. He just knows that meeting Zidane, by chance, in Dubai and jetting around the world playing basketball is the quickest way back to fitness, so he can give his team a much needed help. Trouble is, he’d just revert to type and play like a self-indulgent 13 year old instead of a so-called world class player in his prime years.

Get rid.

ASAP.
Didn't know that he was playing basketball until you said. Thanks for mentioning. Seems a bit of a stupid thing to do as it cause his injury to get worse. If he can play basketball why can't he play football?
 

DoomSlayer

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You see the two sentences that I highlighted, you have the question and the answer. Pogba has never been tactically astute, he isn't particularly composed and therefore inconsistent within the same game. It's not new, it was known before June 2016 and that's why people like @kouroux and I thought that a lot of people overrated him and would be on his back when they realize that the player that they imagined doesn't exist.
Now the perplexing thing is that you actually have the answer but for some reason, you refuse to simply accept it. Pogba wasn't worth 90m when we bought him, at least not for a team that needed a midfiedl general. Pogba is the cherry on the cake, not the cake itself.
So how has Pogba been able to play a more disciplined style for France and play in a 2 with Kante?

I don't believe his footballing brain is the main problem, it's his mentality towards football.
 

Adam-Utd

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What about these stats?


He's clearly been our most creative player. As for downed tools, the whole team went to sh*t so I'm not sure why he's been singled out over the everyone else.

The Pogba hate is getting very tiresome and these conspiracy theories about his injury are just silly.
But But But Jose said he's a virus :( it must be true :( He likes dancing and having different hair cuts, what a nightmare!

The fans hate hate him either can't forgive him for standing up to Jose, don't know what a good player is, or they've got "alterior motives" if you catch my drift...
 

JPRouve

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Didn't know that he was playing basketball until you said. Thanks for mentioning. Seems a bit of a stupid thing to do as it cause his injury to get worse. If he can play basketball why can't he play football?
Fitness, he wasn't playing a high intensity game but playing some pick up basketball in street clothes.
 

Bestietom

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Didn't know that he was playing basketball until you said. Thanks for mentioning. Seems a bit of a stupid thing to do as it cause his injury to get worse. If he can play basketball why can't he play football?
He doesn't want to play for us. Gone in 5 weeks.??
 

johanovic

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People who think he's performed at the level of "one of the best cm's in the league" really do have a misguided opinion of Pogba.

When a players hype is bigger than the level of performances he gives, that tells you everything you need to know. His footballing performances for us have not been good enough. He has not had a consistent run of good form for us, ever. Glimpses? Yes. The odd brilliant game? Yes. Overall? Poor

He doesn't have the characteristic to be a driving midfielder? Really?
He's athletic, He's strong, He's got a good engine, He can pass, he can shoot, he's good in the air...……..Whats missing to make him a good midfielder?

Pogba's problem is he doesn't want to do the hard graft. Jose tried him in a 2 because he's technically good enough to be there, but Pogba didn't want put the hard miles in and work hard for the team, put the tackles in, follow runners etc....he proved then while he has all the physical attributes and talent, he hasn't really got a good overall footballing brain (why he was always out of position, doing stupid flicks in the wrong area of the pitch & being caught in possession)

So we tried him in a 3, cos he'll be "world class" in the left of a midfield 3. He's far from world class i'm afraid.

People need to stop believing this guy is the answer to our problems. He's proven he's not.

He wants to leave, so we will never see Pogba come good here, ever. Time to cash in when his hype is high and we can get 100+mil for him. If we get anywhere near 100mil for him we are laughing
Agree with you on every point. Fans making excuses for him all the time is something I do not understand. No matter how talented you are you can not get away with not giving your all on the pitch in terms of basic things like put in the running miles, tracking your opponent, making runs into the box,winning your personal duels and so on. Robson,Keane,Scholes did all have their off days but they never stood there with hands on their hips and not giving an effort at least. I think it´s strange when you are injured on your ankle like he´s said to be but you can be traveling all over the place and playing basketball. Something is not right and sell this guy and buy Havertz,Zaniolo,Sancho,Haland and continue to give Greenwood,Garner,Gomes,Tuanzebe,Laird,Levitt,Williams and other promising youngsters a chance. We need to get rid of Mata,Matic,Young,Jones,Rojo at least as they have no future at Old Trafford.
 

Adam-Utd

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Didn't know that he was playing basketball until you said. Thanks for mentioning. Seems a bit of a stupid thing to do as it cause his injury to get worse. If he can play basketball why can't he play football?
He literally threw a few shots at the basket. He was hardly running around playing a full blown court match ffs :lol:

There's a big difference between being able to walk around, and then playing 90 minutes at premier league pace. Why can't people understand this? It's like they've never played sport in their lives.
 

Craig Ward

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This is just not true and its really funny to even talk about it. Pogba sub-par? He was our best player last season, season he played after he won world cup with France and Mourinho was trying to make him a scapegoat. Most goal, most asists, most chances created and most of the time he played out of his position, same he does for Ole this season. Pogba haters are weird people. Without him we are mid table team. With him we can fight for top4. Simple as that.
Ah a Pogba lover.

Your aware we've finished outside the top 4 with Pogba in our team, yes?

Your aware he won the world cup for France, not man utd, yes?

We have him and we are mid table, you know this yes?

With him we can fight for to 4? The player who wants to leave, force him to stay and make us better yeah?
 

Brophs

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So just so we're all on the same page, are we saying that Pogba has gone against the club's wishes and gone on strike, but gone along with their wishes to have a medically unnecessary cast fitted to his foot to hide the situation, or that he has decided he doesn't fancy playing and has, inexplicably, gotten a medically unnecessary cast fitted to his foot and the club have, inexplicably, gone along with it?

So hard to keep up.
 

JPRouve

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He literally threw a few shots at the basket. He was hardly running around playing a full blown court match ffs :lol:

There's a big difference between being able to walk around, and then playing 90 minutes at premier league pace. Why can't people understand this? It's like they've never played sport in their lives.
Honestly, I'm pretty sure that many haven't. I played through injuries and I would discourage anyone to do it because truth be told, it's always on your mind, it's extremely painful and there are key moments where you second guess yourself which is a pretty bad thing. When it comes to fitness, you can't overdo it because it creates injuries and you aren't going to magically be match fit after a two month long injury.

Whether he leaves soon or not, he wasn't going to be back until December.
 

FrankDrebin

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Currently, no club would do that. I think we would be very lucky to get even £100 million for Pogba.
Yep. I think we would be lucky to get a straight up fee.
We may get a fee paid in instalments though,which is one of the likelier options.
There could be player exchange involved if we accept it. PSG, Real, and Juventus are the teams showing most interest. Let's see who or what they offer.
And this is another likely option : player/s exchanged.
But I'm hugely worried,along with the majority here, that we could get players who either dont really want to be here and players who are likely on the downward slope,age and form wise.

I would prefer Pogba to stay, that goes without saying really, but his heart must be with the club.
 

JPRouve

can't stop thinking about balls - NOT deflategate
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So just so we're all on the same page, are we saying that Pogba has gone against the club's wishes and gone on strike, but gone along with their wishes to have a medically unnecessary cast fitted to his foot to hide the situation, or that he has decided he doesn't fancy playing and has, inexplicably, gotten a medically unnecessary cast fitted to his foot and the club have, inexplicably, gone along with it?

So hard to keep up.
And the french FA went with it too, while France had multiple key players injured and wasn't qualified for the Euro.
 

Denis' cuff

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here
He was watching the game Sunday...still cheering on the lads

Aye, that’s commitment for yer. Never mind getting down to the ground and showing the lads some real support. Just take a snap of yourself to make out you’re actually connected. For a few minutes,anyway.