Is Southgate underrated by the CAF?

[Sir Erik ten Hag]

He insisted on using Maguire when everyone was giving him dog’s abuse, even United fans.

He kept benching Sancho even when he was at Dortmund. Now we see the guy’s nature at United.

People mocked him for Bellingham’s performance in the last World Cup. Now the boy is showing his class at Real.

May be, just may be, he is a better manager than the CAF gives him credit for?

 

[Alex99]

He's picked Maguire because the other options aren't great.

He benched Sancho because he had a wealth of other options.

People mocked him for Bellingham? I must have missed that.

 

[Ayoba]

No

 

[SilentWitness]

Not really. I think most people on here agree he's been a decent manager for England but arguably took them as far as he can and that a better manager would have won the Euros or got further in the WC.

 

[El Zoido]

I don’t remember anyone mocking him for Bellingham.

He’s gone far in tournaments because his team is stacked. The biggest travesty is that England could’ve won the Euro’s and WC under a top class manager. I’m not saying England were better than the teams they lost to, they were equal to the point where a good manager could’ve been the difference. As an England fan I feel like he’s botched the best generation we’ve had since 1996, but at a time when the rest of the competition isn’t as strong.

 

[SuperiorXI]

Southgate is holding the England team back

 

[Freak]

Why is this in the United forum?

 

[noodlehair]

He wasted England's one realistic chance of a major trophy in 50 years, in their home stadium, by tactically playing for penalties and then bringing on two people to take one who missed. Which is quite possibly the single dumbest piece of management I've ever seen.

He also got England knocked out of the last world cup by leaving one of the most in form forwards in the world on the bench, and then taking off the best player on the pitch to bring on a hopelessly out of form player who'd flown home mid tournament and only bothered to arrive back that day. Which is quite possibly the other single dumbest piece of management I've ever seen.

He also did such a good job at Middlesbrough that he basically ruined them forever. They still haven't recovered from being managed by Gareth Southgate over 10 ears later.

Also dresses like a snooker player for no reason and has an annoying (dislikable) inflated sense of self importance.

And that basically sums up his entire managerial career.

Not sure overrated is quite the word I'd use. Twat may be more suitable.

 

[Alex99]

Not really. I think most people on here agree he's been a decent manager for England but arguably took them as far as he can and that a better manager would have won the Euros or got further in the WC.

This, basically.

A better manager wins at least one of the 2018 WC semi, the 2020 Euros and the 2022 WC quarter.

OP has also ignored his weird persistence with Jordan Henderson and continued inclusion of Kalvin Phillips, despite him barely kicking a ball since moving to City.

 

[MackRobinson]

Yes. The Caf thinks they are a better football manager than everyone.

Unlikely any will admit it though. Many on here were dead wrong about his abilities as an England manager, and now they are too stubborn to admit it.

Look at this thread after reaching the Euro finals and losing on pens. You have people arguing with a straight face he's shit.
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/is-gareth-southgate-a-shiite-england-manager.473590/

If Southgate's last name was Fernandez and he was Spanish, he would be considered well above average, but the English have a weird obsession with feeding their own to the dogs.

 

[anant]

Come on, he may play boring football, but he's been a good manager for England. Certainly far better than what media/fans potray him to be.

Results wise, he's taken you to Euros finals, and you were a penalty kick away from your 1st international trophy since '66.

 

[SilentWitness]

Come on, he may play boring football, but he's been a good manager for England. Certainly far better than what media/fans potray him to be.

Results wise, he's taken you to Euros finals, and you were a penalty kick away from your 1st international trophy since '66.

A better manager wouldn't have let it get to penalties.

 

[Remember the geese]

You make too many threads.

 

[Fr. Todd Unctious]

Not really. I think most people on here agree he's been a decent manager for England but arguably took them as far as he can and that a better manager would have won the Euros or got further in the WC.

Is the correct answer.

 

[Ballache]

Not really.
England and France have, by far, the best international squads at the moment but England don't play like they do.
I think of you lot had a better manager, you'd have won a major tournament recently.

 

[jadajos]

Possibly, yeah. It was the same for Löw in Germany until the WC win. Vile comments after his losses vs. Spain at the EC + WC before, people moaning he'd always make the wrong selections and picking favorites. It's not a British thing, all supporters of ambitious national sides do it once the teams are eliminated from a competition. Reality is, international football is fine margins, no one is guaranteed to win any trophies. A bit like the CL or FA cup - but without regular training sessions. Just selecting the best 11-18 individual players won't get you very far. You'll have to build a great team spirit and find the right chemistry. That's why people commenting from the outside who should or shouldn't be selected is usually a bit of a pointless exercise.

 

[Red_Aaron]

He's maybe done better than expected though undoubtedly benefitted with the draw however the euro final is the key for me. At home against an inferior side and he shits it. If mancini is in our dugout we win that final comfortably and I don't even think he's that good a manager.

At this point in time perhaps only France are definitely better than us but I certainly don't see us winning the euros

 

[GlasgowCeltic]

he received loads of stick for preferring Saka to Sancho Greenwood and Rashford

 

[SteveCoppellFan]

Being Welsh .. I can confirm he is doing a splendid job.

He is basically the difference between England winning a major trophy and winning bugger all.

 

[Fortitude]

Southgate is a massive detriment to what can be fairly called a golden generation of talent for England. Other nations are in rebuild phases and England genuinely enter tournaments as top three to win on paper the last few years, and will do so again in 2024.

Other nations see things through to the end and capitalise on golden talent with the biggest trophy hauls they can get: Spain, Germany, France have all done just that and this is supposed to be England's turn before Kane's time at the very top is over. Southgate will ensure that doesn’t happen.

A shame and a waste.

 

[DWelbz19]

No. Not at all.

 

[Rooney in Paris]

Absolutely not. The rating of him on here, i.e. he's a decent manager, has brought unity to the camp, but is holding the team back due to his cowardice in big games, is pretty spot on.

 

[Withnail]

You make too many threads.

Agreed

 

[adexkola]

He is underrated by many armchair experts

England could do better though

 

[Uniquim]

the CAF in big letters makes it seem like you're talking about the African football confederation.

 

[Alex99]

the CAF in big letters makes it seem like you're talking about the African football confederation.

Ghanaian MPs rumoured to be very critical of his team selections, to be fair.

 

[Uniquim]

Ghanaian MPs rumoured to be very critical of his team selections, to be fair.

Fair enough.

 

[Gio]

A better manager wouldn't have let it get to penalties.

I dunno, Italy had a better midfield and were always going to control the bulk of the game. They had been the most impressive team during the course of the tournament.

But then Mancini's Italy were a good example of a gelled-up team playing to the best of their abilitiies. In contrast I'm not convinced Southgate has ever really got England looking like more than the sum of their parts. They've gone deep in tournaments more as a result of easy draws rather than by controlling games against quality sides. And when they have came up against top teams, his tactical acumen to take that next step is lacking.

Of course there are other aspects to the England Manager role and his management of the players, the media and England's reputation has been very strong.

 

[SilentWitness]

I dunno, Italy had a better midfield and were always going to control the bulk of the game. They had been the most impressive team during the course of the tournament.

But then Mancini's Italy were a good example of a gelled-up team playing to the best of their abilitiies. In contrast I'm not convinced Southgate has ever really got England looking like more than the sum of their parts. They've gone deep in tournaments more as a result of easy draws rather than by controlling games against quality sides. And when they have came up against top teams, his tactical acumen to take that next step is lacking.

Of course there are other aspects to the England Manager role and his management of the players, the media and England's reputation has been very strong.

Obviously we have the benefit of hindsight now but that game was crying out for pace and attacking intent by England (Which they had in abundance on the bench) and Southgate did his usually shut up shop mode which was criminal against that Italy side. Letting them control the game and having no counter to that was the problem. It just needed another goal, I don't think Italy were going to be scoring 2 in that game.

 

[Nickelodeon]

On the basis of results, yes, he is quite harshly treated. But unlike in club management where the true nature of work done by the manager can't be hidden over a period of time, in internationals, results often mask the actual quality of the manager. On evidence, he was a penalty shootout victory away from a Euros victory but given his rigidity of tactics and personnel and unadventurous style of football, the criticism feels justified. The second half vs Italy in the Euros final was quite shambolic and negative at a time when they were there for the taking. Feel he'll get found out if/when he moves back to club football.

 

[RoyH1]

No. Absolutely not. He has a spectacular squad and it feels wasted on him and his conservative game planning. He's a gent and a probably a nice bloke but England has a unique chance at finally winning the Euro's with a weakened Germany/Italy and I feel it will be lost with him. Time will tell.

 

[Alex99]

On the basis of results, yes, he is quite harshly treated. But unlike in club management where the true nature of work done by the manager can't be hidden over a period of time, in internationals, results often mask the actual quality of the manager. On evidence, he was a penalty shootout victory away from a Euros victory but given his rigidity of tactics and personnel and unadventurous style of football, the criticism feels justified. The second half vs Italy in the Euros final was quite shambolic and negative at a time when they were there for the taking. Feel he'll get found out if/when he moves back to club football.

It's worth pointing out how poor Italy had been before and since that tournament:

2018 WC - didn't qualify, second to Spain in the group and beaten by Sweden in the play-offs

2022 WC - didn't qualify, second to Switzerland in the group and beaten by North Macedonia in the play-offs

 

[goalscholes]

Winning an international tournament is hard. Gareth has done great work protecting some of the kids as they’ve come through and improving the teams relationship with the media. He deserves credit for setting us up nicely to succeed.

But his success should be seen in the context of having a fantastic young team deserving of a top manager.

He should after the Euros have moved yoa director like role, as to win a tournament, we’re going to need a manager who can adjust their tactics mid game.

 

[FootballHQ]

I think he's done a better job than most give him credit for England even if there's a limit to his tactics, player selection and in game tactical decisions.

Don't think likes of Pep and Klopp would be having sleepless nights about him becoming a premier league manager though!

If he ended up at a Fulham or Palace next season he wouldn't be doing better than their present efforts.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

He's the best England manager in my lifetime but I'd still say he'd be comfortably in the bottom half of Premier League managers.

Not sure if that's underrating him or not.

 

[Abraxas]

He's an okay international manager but will never actually win anything. He will fall at that hurdle time and time again because under pressure he can't perform and he doesn't instill in his team an ability to perform. So for me that makes him fairly redundant as a choice for a major nation that currently has the talent pool to potentially win.

The examples given are also poor and not thought through. Nobody criticised him about Bellingham. He picks Maguire and doesn't pick Sancho, so what. Who cares. It's about results at the sharp end winning not individual selections. Nothing genius about benching Jadon Sancho who has been a nothing player for years. Why would that be a factor with any weight on how he's viewed.

He has shown what he can do. He can get a friendly spirit amongst the players, he can qualify, he can navigate tournaments to an extent but they seem to flounder at the wrong times despite glorious opportunity.

 

[GlasgowCeltic]

I think he's done a better job than most give him credit for England even if there's a limit to his tactics, player selection and in game tactical decisions.

Don't think likes of Pep and Klopp would be having sleepless nights about him becoming a premier league manager though!

If he ended up at a Fulham or Palace next season he wouldn't be doing better than their present efforts.

Seems self aware enough to know he wouldn’t pull up trees as a Prem manager, I think England will win the Euros and that’ll be it for him as a coach

 

[RedSky]

Sounds like the OP is overrating him based on everyone's posts.

 

[Snow]

Don't think so no. He got the job because he's an FA yes man. He continues to hold the job because he's an FA yes man. That's how the English FA has always worked. You don't keep the job unless you personally get along with the tops (see Terry Venables for example).

What England has done under Southgate is beat every team they are supposed to beat and not beat any team that you need to beat on order to win anything. That's partly the nature of knockout tournaments, the difference between finishing 1st and 4th isn't that big. But that's no different to what England did before. They also used to lose to these teams. They just have a hard time getting through the other big teams.

Southgate is having that problem whilst still picking a hated Maguire, picking the fat and out of form Phillips and basically giving no breaks to a player who's older than 22.

With that in mind, England is probably the most experienced national team in Europe. Germany, Italy and Netherlands aren't close. Spain are worse. Portugal and France are good. The pressure is on to win the tournament. Anything else would be disappointing.

 

[VP89]

No he's incompetent.