Is the standard of goalkeeping getting worse?

[SilentWitness]

Well?

Do the demands of the modern game on keepers mean that the traditional attributes are slowly worsening? Or are clubs just making poor choices when purchasing them?

Ter Stegen and Ederson have both put in terrible performances in the last two days making multiple errors.

Ederson, Kepa and Pickford are in the top 5 most expensive keepers EVER and they’ve all been awful this year. The latter two barely had a week where they didn’t make a mistake. Then you have other ex-elite keepers like De Gea having a poor season too.

A bad year or...?

 

[VorZakone]

What exactly are these supposed "demands of modern football" for goalies? It's still 11v11, the ball is round etc.

A GK's primary job is still to make saves. Both Ederson and Kepa were bought for their extra ball-playing ability yet both can't save shit in the big games.

What was the last Ederson saving masterclass in a big game? He always has these terrible performances in high-stakes games.

Alisson is decent with his feet but he's also a proper fecking GK who makes saves and commands his area.

 

[dbs235]

A GK's primary job is still to make saves. Both Ederson and Kepa were bought for their extra ball-playing ability yet both can't save shit in the big games.

That's the point isn't it? Keepers are being brought in for their ball playing abilities, and not for their ability to make saves. Pretty similar to defenders now to be honest. As you said, Alisson can do both, which is why he's Brazil's number 1 and not Ederson.

 

[VorZakone]

That's the point isn't it? Keepers are being brought in for their ball playing abilities, and not for their ability to make saves. Pretty similar to defenders now to be honest. As you said, Alisson can do both, which is why he's Brazil's number 1 and not Ederson.

I think I've misread the OP.

I don't think general GK quality has declined though. What was the top 10 around 2005ish ?

 

[charlenefan]

Ter Stegan had an inexplicably awful game but only in terms of his on the ball work, he's still TBITW

But yeah the standard is pretty crap right now

 

[SilentWitness]

What exactly are these supposed "demands of modern football" for goalies? It's still 11v11, the ball is round etc.

A GK's primary job is still to make saves. Both Ederson and Kepa were bought for their extra ball-playing ability yet both can't save shit in the big games.

The “ball playing” demands that are put on them by many managers or that managers desire from a keeper which has sometimes meant that a better keeper in the traditional sense has been replaced by a worse keeper in a traditional but can ‘play ball’.

I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if some keepers overtrain on the non traditional keeping attributes and I wonder if it’s worth it.

 

[dbs235]

I think I've misread the OP.

I don't think general GK quality has declined though. What was the top 10 around 2005ish ?

As far as I can remember the top keepers back then were Buffon, Casillas, Cech, Dida, van der Sar, Reina (?) I feel like the general quality in all positions has dropped a lot, but it might just be nostalgia talking.

 

[Superunknown]

I can't say that it's been an outstanding year for keepers. I'm struggling to think of many who have had standout seasons. It doesn't help though that when a goalkeeper makes a mistake, it is amplified x1000, so it's easy to forget all of the things that they have done well. E.g. if X goalie makes 5 world class saves, 3 average saves, but fumbles 1 and that leads to a goal, the fumble is the thing that will get talked about the most. They have the roughest role in football, imo.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Not at all.

keepers are much better than they used to be.

 

[diarm]

Probably more to do with the fact that everything is overanalysed on tv and internet nowadays. That and the fact that the quality of centre back play has dropped dramatically which puts more pressure on keepers.

 

[JPRouve]

Players have bad games but Ter Stegen has been Barcelona's second best player for a few seasons now and has saved them on many occasions with his shot stopping abilities.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Ter Stegen against Bayern basically produced the exact opposite of what the OP is accusing modern goalkeepers of. He was terrible with the ball at his feet but didn’t make any errors with shots at his goal.

 

[Brightonian]

They're on average better on the ball, around the same in terms of shot-stopping, and worse in terms of frequency of errors.

Basically it's a trade-off between ability on the ball and consistency that managers and clubs are knowingly making.

 

[Vidyoyo]

Not at all. Schmikes is regarded as our greatest ever and he made tons of errors (how many times was he chipped?)

One difference seems to be command. Owing to having more technical players in front of them, who are able to play their way out of trouble, I don't think a GK needs to command his area as much anymore. It means they're a bit less aggressive and I think it sometimes makes them look a bit worse at keeping when they're actually better in terms of all round play.

 

[sammsky1]

Every minute spent practicing 'ball-playing' is a minute less spent practicing 'goalkeeping'. That quickly adds up over a few years.
It's obvious that it will have a knock on effect.

 

[ChaddyP]

Goal keeping standards have been much better in my opinion. Especially the ones that face us every week.

 

[SilentWitness]

Ter Stegen against Bayern basically produced the exact opposite of what the OP is accusing modern goalkeepers of. He was terrible with the ball at his feet but didn’t make any errors with shots at his goal.

I think his positioning was a bit off and he wasn’t commanding last night as-well as his poor ability on the ball.

The thread in itself is a knee-jerky reaction to some poor performances over the course of the season but the more I thought about it the more I can’t remember the goalkeepers of the past putting in as many poor errors as there have been this year by supposed ‘top’ keepers.

 

[RUCK4444]

I don’t think so. Watch some of the old games on MUTV, feck me, it looks like outfield players thrown in goals at times.

 

[JPRouve]

Among the current top 15 goalkeepers you have arguably Neuer, Oblak, Ter Stegen, Navas, Courtois, De Gea, Allison or Ederson and only the latter hasn't shown that he was a consistently excellent shot stopper. About half of them would be described as ball playing while the others wouldn't.

 

[RUCK4444]

Every minute spent practicing 'ball-playing' is a minute less spent practicing 'goalkeeping'. That quickly adds up over a few years.
It's obvious that it will have a knock on effect.

This is true.

Likewise, every minute fullbacks spend practicing ‘attacking’ is a minute less spent practicing ‘defending.’

 

[acnumber9]

Is there any position that isn’t going through a decline currently? I don’t like the way the game is going at the minute with pressing being the be all and end all. Leads to a lot of scrappy football for me.

 

[Feed Me]

Well?

Do the demands of the modern game on keepers mean that the traditional attributes are slowly worsening? Or are clubs just making poor choices when purchasing them?

Ter Stegen and Ederson have both put in terrible performances in the last two days making multiple errors.

Ederson, Kepa and Pickford are in the top 5 most expensive keepers EVER and they’ve all been awful this year. The latter two barely had a week where they didn’t make a mistake. Then you have other ex-elite keepers like De Gea having a poor season too.

A bad year or...?

They are getting worse. Or rather, the core skills are no longer prized and peripheral qualities like being good on the ball are prioritised.

De Gea is United’s highest earner ffs...

 

[sammsky1]

This is true.Likewise, every minute fullbacks spend practicing ‘attacking’ is a minute less spent practicing ‘defending.’

Yup. I dont think this worshipping at the alter of attacking football is sustainable for much longer.

A 'Mourinho 2.0' tactician is plotting on how to expose this system as we speak.

 

[SilentWitness]

Among the current top 15 goalkeepers you have arguably Neuer, Oblak, Ter Stegen, Navas, Courtois, De Gea, Allison or Ederson and only the latter hasn't shown that he was a consistently excellent shot stopper. About half of them would be described as ball playing while the others wouldn't.

That is a great selection of keepers when you think about the peaks of Courtois/De Gea/Oblak/Ter Stegen/Neuer.

I'm not even sure where my stance is on this argument really, as I replied to Pogue it's a bit knee-jerk from this season, tonight and last night.

 

[Cheimoon]

I think two things influence your point. First is an unfair view of the past. If you want to evaluate today's quality, you should compare it to specific moments in the past - not to an entire era or generation. Also, it's easy to notice errors while watching games today and then focus on those; but do you equally remember match-to-match performances of past greats? (Maybe this is me; I don't.) Did they make fewer errors?

Second, when you say 'standard of goalkeeping', you seem to mean traditional goalkeeper duties. I would argue that more is expected of keepers now, and you can't expect all the top keepers to be great across the board on all of their new (like ballplaying) and traditional duties. A few are (like Allison), and those hence probably rank with the best ever (once they've established some longevity). But I think it's entirely reasonable that most current top keepers specialize more strongly in either the new (like Ederson) or traditional (like Oblak) aspects. I wouldn't hold that against them in the comparison with keepers from the past; except if you focus on a particular aspect of goalkeeping, of course.

 

[Stack]

There has been a move in the last 10-20 years to have kids play more positions as they develop and to specialise less at younger ages. Aso the technical levels of kids today has improved massively and so players who decide to specialise as goalkeepers once in their teens have better ball skills than in older generations which in turn leads to people thinking too much time for senior goalkeepers is spent on ball skills and not on keeping skills. Goal keeper training has improved and the reality is the game has got faster in terms of movement, general play and required concentration levels. More outfield players are capable of quality shooting and add in changes in ball technology etc we see all sorts of things we think didnt happen before. keepers today are no worse than any time before.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

Ter Stegen definitely made errors with his saves against Bayern, most of the goals were pretty soft. Prime De Gea saves a lot of those chances. I don't see why people think Ter Stegen is anywhere near the best, he's not even close to Oblak as a keeper.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

Is there any position that isn’t going through a decline currently? I don’t like the way the game is going at the minute with pressing being the be all and end all. Leads to a lot of scrappy football for me.

At least its better and more entertaining than possession football we had to suffer in the previous decade.

 

[Ekeke]

Yes same as defending. The more people focus on how a keeper plays with the ball at their feet, or how a defender brings the ball out and passes it around the less focus they have on improving goalkeeping and defensive skills.

Interestingly as these things decline, it must get easier for attacking players. So thats what you'd want to be right now

 

[TheLord]

I think Jan Oblak is the only elite keeper who lived up to the hype. He’s clearly the best in the world at the moment.

And may be Neuer too considering that he’s nearly 35 years old.

 

[do.ob]

Not to be offensive, but this really is a caf classic. "So I've watched two matches, here's my hot take on football" coupled with "they don't make em like that anymore.. defenders are shit these days"..

 

[Revan]

As far as I can remember the top keepers back then were Buffon, Casillas, Cech, Dida, van der Sar, Reina (?) I feel like the general quality in all positions has dropped a lot, but it might just be nostalgia talking.

Nostalgia, obviously. Players are better than they have ever been, as are the clubs.

 

[Sandikan]

Is there any position that isn’t going through a decline currently? I don’t like the way the game is going at the minute with pressing being the be all and end all. Leads to a lot of scrappy football for me.

You're definitely onto something There.

The pace and mad dog pressing seems to have reduced quality around the park.

Fewer top strikers these days, very few quality centre backs. Barely any full backs can defend. And while pressing shouldn't affect keepers even the best are making regular howlers.

All at a time wages go up and up

 

[calodo2003]

As far as I can remember the top keepers back then were Buffon, Casillas, Cech, Dida, van der Sar, Reina (?) I feel like the general quality in all positions has dropped a lot, but it might just be nostalgia talking.

Digressing from Dida, that’s quite the rebuke.

 

[Drainy]

Every keeper makes mistakes and every keeper loses form from time to time.

 

[RashyForPM]

Even Ter Stegen isn’t that good. For me, there are only two world class keepers itw now - Oblak and Alisson. Neuer is unlucky but not for me while honestly, I think Nick Pope is worth a shout. He is excellent in terms of pure saving.

Yes, I think Nick Pope is better than MATS, Dave, Ederson, Navas, Courtois etc. Come at me

 

[Isotope]

Nostalgia, obviously. Players are better than they have ever been, as are the clubs.

Nah.. It's quite obvious that the like of Kahn, Buffon, Schmeichel, VDS are all better Gk than anyone nowadays.

 

[Skills]

All keepers feck up - this has been the case since the start of football.

Here's van der sar, who allegedly never made a mistake:


That's him making a costly mistake in a Champions League final. Him and goalkeepers of the pre-twitter/reddit era are lucky or else they would've become memes across the internet.

 

[Lay]

All keepers feck up - this has been the case since the start of football.

Here's van der sar, who allegedly never made a mistake:


That's him making a costly mistake in a Champions League final. Him and goalkeepers of the pre-twitter/reddit era are lucky or else they would've become memes across the internet.

Hell, VDS made mistakes in all our CL finals.

 

[Red00012]

Ter Stegan had an inexplicably awful game but only in terms of his on the ball work, he's still TBITW

But yeah the standard is pretty crap right now

I thought his on the ball work was awful v Bayern ?