Is there anyone left who wants to defend lvg now?

[Santiago_KinderBueno]

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2013/jan/17/football-tactics-pep-guardiola

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/van-gaal-taught-bayern-new-8865836

http://www.fourfourtwo.com/news/guardiola-has-built-heynckes-bayern-legacy-muller#:OXnzRRB22FeIhA

http://www.bayernforum.com/blog/how...ootsteps-in-the-chase-for-european-domination

http://www.bavarianfootballworks.co...its-difficult-for-me-to-write-about-guardiola

I just cant be bothered to do this. You fans should have wondered why we would have hired LVG in the first place. Absolute no research done & now moaning at a relatively youthful side full of UNited youth players who are yet to adjust to the quality we relate too.

Looks like half the journalists & players are trolls too.

 

[golden_blunder]

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2013/jan/17/football-tactics-pep-guardiola

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/van-gaal-taught-bayern-new-8865836

I just cant be bothered to do this. You fans should have wondered why we would have hired LVG in the first place. Absolute no research done & now moaning at a relatively youthful side full of UNited youth players who are yet to adjust to the quality we relate too.

Do you honestly think we looked at it that deep?

We just messed up with Moyes. We hired an experienced available manager. One of which we should have done proper due diligence on.

 

[JPRouve]

If van Gaal gets the credit for Spain's World Cup win, let's give credit to Carles Rexach, Radomir Antic, Frank Rijkaard and Pep Guardiola too. As per Germany, do Heynckes and Guardiola deserve credit too then for Germany's win too in your opinion?

You beat me to it, there is three managers between LVG and Guardiola, but he is the one earning all the merits? Barcelona play like they do because of Michel and Cruyff, they are the one who brought that Dutch culture.

 

[Santiago_KinderBueno]

Do you honestly think we looked at it that deep?

We just messed up with Moyes. We hired an experienced available manager. One of which we should have done proper due diligence on.

Yea i do think we looked at it deep. Van gaal obviously needs to focus a bit more on current results but hiring a manager like van gaal who has not the best title winning credits - leads me on to this.

 

[Santiago_KinderBueno]

You beat me to it, there is three managers between LVG and Guardiola, but he is the one earning all the merits? Barcelona play like they do because of Michel and Cruyff, they are the one who brought that Dutch culture.

You do know barcelona went 4 years without winning something before van gaal? Cryuff's i fluence was more on style that productivity.

 

[JPRouve]

You do know barcelona went 4 years without winning something before van gaal? Cryuff's i fluence was more on style that productivity.

And you realize that United were successful before Van gaal? Can I use that against him?

 

[Classical Mechanic]

In fairness he was a massive influence on Pep and a lot of the players from both of those World Cup winning teams.

LVG is imperfect but I simply feel our players are just not good enough.

What exactly is Mourinho going to do better?

 

[Dr. Funkenstein]

If van Gaal gets the credit for Spain's World Cup win, let's give credit to Carles Rexach, Radomir Antic, Frank Rijkaard and Pep Guardiola too. As per Germany, do Heynckes and Guardiola deserve credit too then for Germany's win too in your opinion?

Well, Bayern is always the great provider for the German national team, so it gets much easier when the national team and the main provider play in the same style. I think it's fair to say that Germany couldn't have played this well in this style without Bayern doing well in this style, so both Guardiola and Heynkes had an impact on the style and the execution of Germany. Not as big as an impact as LvG though, because he was the one who had the biggest impact on Bayern's style of play by changing it radically. The German association had already decided for an attack minded style in 2000, with new plans for youth development and competitions, but it would have been more difficult to be succesfull with it if the biggest provider of players had continued to play defensive counter attacking football.

Spain is a different story, of course as a vigorous proponent of youth development he has had a positive influence on La Masia, and La Masia was very import for Spain's run of successes. But Barcelona was already busy with youth development and the playing style goes back to Cruijff and even Michels, so his influence was more limited than it was in Germany, and not as big as Guardiola's. Because Guardiola was the manager in charge and the one having the players playing together like that at Barca. And allthough Del Bosque could use all the training work of Guardiola, he still had to deal with the old Spanish problem of having players from different clubs and regions playing togehter as one team.

But it's nonsense to say that a club manager can't have an impact on a national team. The Dutch national team that did well in 98 and 2000 had Ajax written all over it, it happened to be LvG's Ajax. Euro 96 was even wrecked by internal Ajax troubles about difference in wages and leadership.

Off course when club managers just stumble upon a style of play instead of working on a specific one, and players play purely on their instinct, must'nt be "stifled" with tactical instructions and should be free to do what they want without thinking, a club manager can't have an impact on the national team. First the manager has to implement a specific style. But a national team like that won't have any impact on a World Cup or European Cup anyway, so all those club managers can only be a small part of the failure of England.

 

[Balu]

This is totally mental. Seriously, there's not a single manager in the world who gets credited for something like that to such an extent. Van Gaal's main influence in Germany's World Cup win is the trust he showed so early in Müller and his influence in Müller's career. Fair enough. But that's like giving Ancelotti credit for Italy's World Cup win because he changed Pirlo's career or Hitzfeld for Germany's Euro win in 1996 because he turned Sammer into an all time great libero/sweeper. No one ever does that, it's utter stupid and totally disrespectful to the manager, who actually did the work.

 

[Sarni]

Of course Spain won World Cup because of van Gaal. Germany also won World Cup because of van Gaal and I think Poland qualified for Euro 2016 mainly because of van Gaal (Beenhakker was Poland coach between 2006 and 2009 and he is also Dutch and must have learned something from van Gaal).

It goes without saying that Messi would have never won Ballon D'Or without van Gaal's influence and Ferguson wouldn't have been the manager he was without van Gaal influence (van Gaal won CL in 1995 and Ferguson won in 1999 for the first time, learning from van Gaal).

 

[JPRouve]

Of course Spain won World Cup because of van Gaal. Germany also won World Cup because of van Gaal and I think Poland qualified for Euro 2016 mainly because of van Gaal (Beenhakker was Poland coach between 2006 and 2009 and he is also Dutch and must have learned something from van Gaal).

It goes without saying that Messi would have never won Ballon D'Or without van Gaal's influence and Ferguson wouldn't have been the manager he was without van Gaal influence (van Gaal won CL in 1995 and Ferguson won in 1999 for the first time, learning from van Gaal).

Van gaal was Beenhakker's assistant at Ajax, so in reality all the credit should go to him.

 

[LazyRed-Ninja]

This is totally mental. Seriously, there's not a single manager in the world who gets credited for something like that to such an extent. Van Gaal's main influence in Germany's World Cup win is the trust he showed so early in Müller and his influence in Müller's career. Fair enough. But that's like giving Ancelotti credit for Italy's World Cup win because he changed Pirlo's career or Hitzfeld for Germany's Euro win in 1996 because he turned Sammer into an all time great libero/sweeper. No one ever does that, it's utter stupid and totally disrespectful to the manager, who actually did the work.

To be fair the amount of players that made a world career under his regime is not exclusively Muller alone.

 

[Sarni]

Van gaal was Beenhakker's assistant at Ajax, so in reality all the credit should go to him.

Wow. Even more than I expected. So Lewandowski is also thanks to van Gaal.

 

[golden_blunder]

In fairness he was a massive influence on Pep and a lot of the players from both of those World Cup winning teams.

LVG is imperfect but I simply feel our players are just not good enough.

What exactly is Mourinho going to do better?

How about motivating them for a start?

 

[Balu]

To be fair the amount of players that made a world career under his regime is not exclusively Muller alone.

The same is true for Hitzfeld and Ancelotti and pretty much every other top manager. That doesn't really change the point.

 

[golden_blunder]

in fairness LVG was Barcelona manager in 1999, and we played the final at the Camp Nou so he must be credited with United's CL final win

 

[JPRouve]

Is that possible to consider that Van gaal has been a great manager and did a great work in a handful of clubs without transforming him into a mystical creature?

Van gaal was great and he isn't anymore, like Lippi or Capello were great but aren't anymore.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

How about motivating them for a start?

We play an open game and the defense is exposed. We play a closed game and the full back and wingers are not good enough for us to score enough.

We just don't have the players.

Mourinho motivating players? Like he did this season at Chelsea!?!? He is not in a good place at the moment.

 

[Seveneric]

Didn't SantigaoKindereggwhatever once say LVG is a better manager than SAF, so obviously he's a balanced poster.

 

[LazyRed-Ninja]

The same is true for Hitzfeld and Ancelotti and pretty much every other top manager. That doesn't really change the point.

Im quite sure that LVG has given youth more chances then the two managers you just named.

- Seedorf
- Xavi
- Inniesta
- Muller
- Alaba
- Davids
- Kluivert

Quite an impressive list of World Cup, Champions League and national titles winners, isnt it ?

 

[Santiago_KinderBueno]

Van gaal is like a headteacher with good ideas and implications for students but is too strict to really get along with them.

Let him put the groundwork - tbh i dont see how no one can see atleast there is some sort of groundwork laid on for a manager who can really take this possesion based team further. Not mourinho.

 

[Balu]

Im quite sure that LVG has given youth more chances then the two managers you just named.

- Seedorf
- Xavi
- Inniesta
- Muller
- Alaba
- Davids
- Kluivert

Quite an impressive list of Worlc Cup, Champions League and national titles winners, isnt it ?

What exactly has that to do with my post?

 

[JPRouve]

We play an open game and the defense is exposed. We play a closed game and the full back and wingers are not good enough for us to score enough.

We just don't have the players.

Mourinho motivating players? Like he did this season at Chelsea!?!? He is not in a good place at the moment.

I hate this type of conclusion, it's as if managers were useless.

 

[LazyRed-Ninja]

What exactly has that to do with my post?

I interpreted your following sentence : ''Seriously, there's not a single manager in the world who gets credited for something like that to such an extent''

In my head you were talking about youth, could be wrong, if so, my message will self destruct

 

[BennyBlanco]

In fairness he was a massive influence on Pep and a lot of the players from both of those World Cup winning teams.

LVG is imperfect but I simply feel our players are just not good enough.

What exactly is Mourinho going to do better?

Win.
We have a top 4 squad in the Premier League,
Our current rivals for top 4 include Leicester, Liverpool and Tottenham,
You can argue we don't have a Barca/Bayern squad, or even City/Arsenal fair enough, but we're player for player stronger than any of our rivals for 4th.

 

[Santiago_KinderBueno]

Didn't SantigaoKindereggwhatever once say LVG is a better manager than SAF, so obviously he's a balanced poster.

No. I believe SAF could win things with his eyes closed. I do rate LVG quite highly. Purely because i see his tactics as part 1 and part 2. I don't think you need to be a particularly great manager to manage a team built up in having 65% possesion to score goals.

All you need is the right player. Right now we lack alot of the right player in the right position & that effects the team and more importantly structure.

It's just that van gaal cant do it, he is too stubborn & its similar to a headteacher who starts drinking & flirting with the school kids. Its just wrong.

 

[PedroMendez]

Is that possible to consider that Van gaal has been a great manager and did a great work in a handful of clubs without transforming him into a mystical creature?

Van gaal was great and he isn't anymore, like Lippi or Capello were great but aren't anymore.

nope.

Genesis 1:1
In the beginning van Gaal created the heaven and the earth (...)

 

[Balu]

I interpreted your following sentence : ''Seriously, there's not a single manager in the world who gets credited for something like that to such an extent''

In my head you were talking about youth, could be wrong, if so, my message will self destruct

No I was solely talking about crediting van Gaal with Germany's and Spain's WC wins to a big extent. Van Gaal of course has an outstanding legacy in terms of developing youth players to top players, there's no doubt about that.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Win.
We have a top 4 squad in the Premier League,
Our current rivals for top 4 include Leicester, Liverpool and Tottenham,
You can argue we don't have a Barca/Bayern squad, or even City/Arsenal fair enough, but we're player for player stronger than any of our rivals for 4th.

LVG still has every chance of getting 4th spot for us. It was a late run of form last year that saw us get there?!!?

So you want to sack a manager to employ another manager who might be able to do what the current one can?

 

[Spock]

We missed two sitters last night -- Lingard and Fellaini. Louis can't be blamed for yesterday's result.

We definitely lack quality in the squad but it's still a pretty decent squad. LVG has done everything he can do for United and should step down as soon as possible. If we have Pep in hand, I'm fine with Louis hanging on through May. But if we don't we really should bring Jose on now to ensure that we nail that fourth spot down.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

in fairness LVG was Barcelona manager in 1999, and we played the final at the Camp Nou so he must be credited with United's CL final win

Redcafe was started in 1999. If not for that CL win, it might've never taken off the ground. LVG must therefore be credited for the Caf's success.

 

[BennyBlanco]

LVG still has every chance of getting 4th spot for us. It was a late run of form last year that saw us get there?!!?

So you want to sack a manager to employ another manager who might be able to do what the current one can?

We're still in a massive tailspin, form wise, discounting a meaningless FA cup win over a 3rd division opponent, we've won 1 game in the last 9.
Infact we've only won a single game in the League & CL since mid November and we're fast approaching mid Jan.
Our form guide matches up well with Aston Villa now they finally got a win thesemves (Palace).

We're on relegation form statistically.
Correction. 1 in 10.

 

[Attila]

Someone needs to add up all of Van Gaals trophies.

2x World Cup
6x Champions League with 3 runners up
Probably near 20 league titles for Ajax, Barcelona and Bayern

 

[SteveJ]

Is there anyone left who wants to defend lvg now?

 

[Big Ben Foster]

Someone needs to add up all of Van Gaals trophies.

2x World Cup
6x Champions League with 3 runners up
Probably near 20 league titles for Ajax, Barcelona and Bayern

To be fair, being runners-up enabled the opposition to win the CL, so you have to credit him for those wins as well.

 

[Santiago_KinderBueno]

Someone needs to add up all of Van Gaals trophies.

2x World Cup
6x Champions League with 3 runners up
Probably near 20 league titles for Ajax, Barcelona and Bayern

..

 

[Red-Jeff]

Van gaal is like a headteacher with good ideas and implications for students but is too strict to really get along with them.

Let him put the groundwork - tbh i dont see how no one can see atleast there is some sort of groundwork laid on for a manager who can really take this possesion based team further. Not mourinho.

I agree with parts of what you are saying, some seem to be blowing it out of proportion. Correct me if I'm wrong here, you're saying LVG is very good at laying foundations as evidenced by changes in play style in the teams he has coached followed by great periods of success using this or a very similar play style. This has also contributed to the success of three very successful national teams because those club teams have been the main source of players for their national teams and have adapted similar play styles to that of those club teams. You are not saying that they won the world cup or euros because of him but that he has influenced those teams through his work with clubs.

 

[Nighteyes]

Yes. As it looks like Mourinho will never be in consideration I'm back in the LVG camp.

 

[Santiago_KinderBueno]

I agree with parts of what you are saying, some seem to be blowing it out of proportion. Correct me if I'm wrong here, you're saying LVG is very good at laying foundations as evidenced by changes in play style in the teams he has coached followed by great periods of success using this or a very similar play style. This has also contributed to the success of three very successful national teams because those club teams have been the main source of players for their national teams and have adapted similar play styles to that of those club teams. You are not saying that they won the world cup or euros because of him but that he has influenced those teams through his work with clubs.

Spot on. Spain were rubbish until Guardiola fixed Barcelona up perfectly. However, Van gaal is the one who started it off at barcelona - no matter how shit he was whilst doing so. He was the one who not only bought xavi & iniesta in to the first team, he played a strict (almost too strict) possesion based football that really did end up suiting them. It went on to become the centre of Barcelona's approach & went on to be Spain's approach.

Spain became Barcelona V2 with sprinkles of real madrid everywhere.

The same thing with Germany & Munich. Lahm, Schweinsteiger, Muller, Badstuber, Neurer & countless others from bayern sprinkled with bits of Dortmund's team.

It's hard to talk about foundations on here since SAF has already built this club to an impeccable level but I see Van Gaal's foundations as something most managers can take forward & improve. In doing so - with tandem on constant use of youth as we are currently seeing - we become less reliant on managers as we do on the right player.

No-one is particularly going to have a rough sleep if Robben goes. Hell even the best player ever in Messi is already playing with an adequate replacement in Neymar.

That's because the club knows exactly what player they have in stock & exactly what player they need.

I'm telling you - Van gaal isn't writing notes on his note pad & throwing it in the bin.

 

[Catt]

Lingard's miss was shocking.