Is there anyone left who wants to defend lvg now?

[Red-Jeff]

Spot on. Spain were rubbish until Guardiola fixed Barcelona up perfectly. However, Van gaal is the one who started it off at barcelona - no matter how shit he was whilst doing so. He was the one who not only bought xavi & iniesta in to the first team, he played a strict (almost too strict) possesion based football that really did end up suiting them. It went on to become the centre of Barcelona's approach & went on to be Spain's approach.

Spain became Barcelona V2 with sprinkles of real madrid everywhere.

The same thing with Germany & Munich. Lahm, Schweinsteiger, Muller, Badstuber, Neurer & countless others from bayern sprinkled with bits of Dortmund's team.

It's hard to talk about foundations on here since SAF has already built this club to an impeccable level but I see Van Gaal's foundations as something most managers can take forward & improve. In doing so - with tandem on constant use of youth as we are currently seeing - we become less reliant on managers as we do on the right player.

No-one is particularly going to have a rough sleep if Robben goes. Hell even the best player ever in Messi is already playing with an adequate replacement in Neymar.

That's because the club knows exactly what player they have in stock & exactly what player they need.

I'm telling you - Van gaal isn't writing notes on his note pad & throwing it in the bin.

Doesn't seem so crazy to me but I guess we're in the minority here

 

[Santiago_KinderBueno]

Doesn't seem so crazy to me but I guess we're in the minority here

Be careful lad you dont want to be associated with me. Apparently im a troll and a stupid idiot for noticing things that bypass others.

 

[Balu]

Spot on. Spain were rubbish until Guardiola fixed Barcelona up perfectly.

Except that they had just won the Euro in 08 of course, before Guardiola took over at Barca and that was easily their most dominant tournament win out of the three. They were exciting to watch and successful until Del Bosque turned them into a fecking possession based borefest in 2010.

 

[ravi2]

nope.

Genesis 1:1
In the beginning van Gaal created the heaven and the earth (...)

 

[Red-Jeff]

Be careful lad you dont want to be associated with me. Apparently im a troll and a stupid idiot for noticing things that bypass others.

I don't mind it, I'm not saying things are going well but I do think that LVG is working towards something that will benefit the club in the long run. It is just difficult right now and people are understandably frustrated.

I'm not afraid of confrontation and the criticisms that I will receive because of my opinion. If anything it is fun

 

[golden_blunder]

We're still in a massive tailspin, form wise, discounting a meaningless FA cup win over a 3rd division opponent, we've won 1 game in the last 9.
Infact we've only won a single game in the League & CL since mid November and we're fast approaching mid Jan.
Our form guide matches up well with Aston Villa now they finally got a win thesemves (Palace).

We're on relegation form statistically.
Correction. 1 in 10.

Have said this a few times but it's ignored. its shocking. How he's surviving and how he has so many disciples.. I'm amazed.

 

[Red-Jeff]

Have said this a few times but it's ignored. its shocking. How he's surviving and how he has so many disciples.. I'm amazed.

I think it has to do with the legacy he has built at other clubs. Don't get me wrong, things are not good right now. But it isn't coincidence that he wins everywhere he goes (usually) and the clubs he leaves (Barca & Bayern) end up very successful after his time there. He is one of the common denominators between the recent Barca and Bayern sides and is seen by many as someone that sets up a club for success even after he leaves. Most of the people that support LVG realize our form is bad, you are not being ignored, there is just no argument to be had regarding that point.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

I think it has to do with the legacy he has built at other clubs. Don't get me wrong, things are not good right now. But it isn't coincidence that he wins everywhere he goes (usually) and the clubs he leaves (Barca & Bayern) end up very successful after his time there. He is one of the common denominators between the recent Barca and Bayern sides and is seen by many as someone that sets up a club for success even after he leaves. Most of the people that support LVG realize our form is bad, you are not being ignored, there is just no argument to be had regarding that point.

Except Barca and Bayern have been immensely successful since the beginning of time. It's not like they're wee clubs that LVG transformed into global behemoths.

 

[K2K]

You do know barcelona went 4 years without winning something before van gaal? Cryuff's i fluence was more on style that productivity.

Stop lying.

The season before Van Gaal arrived , Barca won the Spanish cup and super cup and the European cup winners cup under Sir Bobby Robson.

Cruyff is Barca's most succesful manager with 4 league titles and Barca's first European cup.

 

[Santiago_KinderBueno]

Except Barca and Bayern have been immensely successful since the beginning of time. It's not like they're wee clubs that LVG transformed into global behemoths.

Bayern and barca were shambles just before van gaal.

 

[Red-Jeff]

Except Barca and Bayern have been immensely successful since the beginning of time. It's not like they're wee clubs that LVG transformed into global behemoths.

Yes in the past they had been successful but they weren't doing very well immediately prior to LVG, at least not as well as they are doing now. Both were in a bit of a transition period similar to United now iirc. I'm not saying he gets all of the credit for either but both teams were in a shit spot and their reversal of fortunes seem to both occur after LVG left. Seems like he is on to something to me.

 

[Santiago_KinderBueno]

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2012/may/12/philipp-lahm-bayern-munich-champions-league

Lahm's importance as captain and him saying van gaal layed the foundations again.

Seriously, if all theae players are saying this shit then why am i getting a bollocking here..

 

[Keeps It tidy]

A few weeks ago Raphael Honigstein was on Football Weekly and told a story about Van Gaal's time at Bayern. After Bayern won a match in the CL Van Gaal pointed out Barca and Ajax also won that day and Van Gaal said something to the effect that they were all Van Gaal teams. So he believes the hype himself in regards to that.

 

[Red-Jeff]

A few weeks ago Raphael Honigstein was on Football Weekly and told a story about Van Gaal's time at Bayern. After Bayern won a match in the CL Van Gaal pointed out Barca and Ajax also won that day and Van Gaal said something to the effect that they were all Van Gaal teams. So he believes the hype himself in regards to that.

One of the best at what he does is an egomaniac, shocking

 

[Santiago_KinderBueno]

Imagine studying medicine. The teachers are not always the best doctors!

 

[goin4glory]

I'm in the LVG out camp but there's simply some lines that should never be crossed and those posters who have hoped to see us lose because they think it'll be the end of him are a disgrace.

 

[K2K]

Well, Bayern is always the great provider for the German national team, so it gets much easier when the national team and the main provider play in the same style. I think it's fair to say that Germany couldn't have played this well in this style without Bayern doing well in this style, so both Guardiola and Heynkes had an impact on the style and the execution of Germany. Not as big as an impact as LvG though, because he was the one who had the biggest impact on Bayern's style of play by changing it radically. The German association had already decided for an attack minded style in 2000, with new plans for youth development and competitions, but it would have been more difficult to be succesfull with it if the biggest provider of players had continued to play defensive counter attacking football.

Spain is a different story, of course as a vigorous proponent of youth development he has had a positive influence on La Masia, and La Masia was very import for Spain's run of successes. But Barcelona was already busy with youth development and the playing style goes back to Cruijff and even Michels, so his influence was more limited than it was in Germany, and not as big as Guardiola's. Because Guardiola was the manager in charge and the one having the players playing together like that at Barca. And allthough Del Bosque could use all the training work of Guardiola, he still had to deal with the old Spanish problem of having players from different clubs and regions playing togehter as one team.

But it's nonsense to say that a club manager can't have an impact on a national team. The Dutch national team that did well in 98 and 2000 had Ajax written all over it, it happened to be LvG's Ajax. Euro 96 was even wrecked by internal Ajax troubles about difference in wages and leadership.

Off course when club managers just stumble upon a style of play instead of working on a specific one, and players play purely on their instinct, must'nt be "stifled" with tactical instructions and should be free to do what they want without thinking, a club manager can't have an impact on the national team. First the manager has to implement a specific style. But a national team like that won't have any impact on a World Cup or European Cup anyway, so all those club managers can only be a small part of the failure of England.

Not you too.

With Santiago we understand. You are usually more rational.

This is a Germany NT that has reached a major final in every decade. With them being in the Euros final a year before Van Gaal's arrival in Germany, and 3rd in the WC two years prior. Their win was the culmination of Low and Klinsmann work that started while years before Van Gaal.

Van Gaal only had two years in Germany with Bayern, one of which was a disaster which he was fired in.

Its grasping for straws attributing success to LVG, and just shows the bizarre level some of you guys will go to pump him up.

Van Gaal has a good CV , there's no need for this fictitious attribution of success.

 

[PlayerOne]

This thread turned funny

 

[friendlytramp]

I supported him fully. Could see reason and purpose in what he was doing, building a stable platform, steadying the ship, trimming the fat and developing the young players. Last night undermined that completely, it was chaotic, no structure no game plan just running around and hoping you out score the opposition. It's massively disappointing that a man of such great experience has folded under pressure from the fans and media and it resulted in us conceding three goals to a team in the bottom 3. It's knocked my faith in LVG completely, smacks of Moyes now.

 

[JPRouve]

Except Barca and Bayern have been immensely successful since the beginning of time. It's not like they're wee clubs that LVG transformed into global behemoths.

Nonsense, Bayern weren't even a football club before Van gaal, Barcelona was a little fisherman camp.

 

[Ventura]

Firing LVG sounds good in theory, but we'd need a better manager than him to take over then.

Is Giggs such a manager? No.
Mourinho? Usually he would be, but this is probably exactly the worst time ever to hire him. And in my opinion he should never be considered anyway, for other reasons. And I don't see how people expect a different and exciting type of football.

For other options, remember that they would have to be available and willing to take the job right now.

 

[Wumminator]

Can someone find out how many shots we've had in our last 3/5/7 prem games compared to other teams?

 

[golden_blunder]

Nonsense, Bayern weren't even a football club before Van gaal, Barcelona was a little fisherman camp.

Lvg founded them right after he invented football

 

[Red-Jeff]

Lvg founded them right after he invented football

I told you LVG is one that plans for the future, he is definitely playing the long game here!

 

[bleedred]

I think it has to do with the legacy he has built at other clubs. Don't get me wrong, things are not good right now. But it isn't coincidence that he wins everywhere he goes (usually) and the clubs he leaves (Barca & Bayern) end up very successful after his time there. He is one of the common denominators between the recent Barca and Bayern sides and is seen by many as someone that sets up a club for success even after he leaves. Most of the people that support LVG realize our form is bad, you are not being ignored, there is just no argument to be had regarding that point.

You could also argue that the common denominator was that both the clubs sacked him and thats why they went onto become successful, rather than in his tenure??

As for leaving a legacy, what about the dutch team or AZ??.. why are they not successful when he left?. You pick cases of Bayern and barca who have been historically successful irrespective of managers and attribute their success to LVG.

 

[royboy16]

Can anyone give me a reasonable suggestion as to why he's not been sacked yet? Honestly, I'd say it is almost guaranteed that we will continue to drop points under LVG. I reckon we'd do better even if we brought Giggs in on the interim just for the fact that it's a fresh start and will lift the mood.

No value in the market for Managers

 

[Keeps It tidy]

You could also argue that the common denominator was that both the clubs sacked him and thats why they went onto become successful, rather than in his tenure??

As for leaving a legacy, what about the dutch team or AZ??.. why are they not successful when he left?. You pick cases of Bayern and barca who have been historically successful irrespective of managers and attribute their success to LVG.

Plus Barca immediately after Van Gaal were pretty meh by their standards. Only after Rijkaard/Ronaldinho did they go back to being a European power.

 

[Red-Jeff]

You could also argue that the common denominator was that both the clubs sacked him and thats why they went onto become successful, rather than in his tenure??

As for leaving a legacy, what about the dutch team or AZ??.. why are they not successful when he left?. You pick cases of Bayern and barca who have been historically successful irrespective of managers and attribute their success to LVG.

I have never completely attributed their success to LVG, I said he played a part in it. Regarding the Dutch team, it is much more difficult to overhaul and stabilize a national team because your player pool is much smaller, therefore it is more a case of picking the best you can and working with what you've got as he did in 2014. Regarding AZ, I don't know honestly.

I don't think LVG built Barca or Bayern by himself or attribute all of their success to him, some like to sensationalize things. I am only stating that LVG came into those teams when they were in transition, worked on a very specific playstyle while there, and it paid off for both teams in the long run.

 

[bleedred]

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2012/may/12/philipp-lahm-bayern-munich-champions-league

Lahm's importance as captain and him saying van gaal layed the foundations again.

Seriously, if all theae players are saying this shit then why am i getting a bollocking here..

Quotes from the same article,

Lahm is full of praise for a side that outplayed Real Madrid in the semi-final ("that's when we realised that we are at the same level as the very best in the world") and that has found a sense of tactical maturity and balance under the 66-year-old Jupp Heynckes. "He's rectified Van Gaal's mistakes," says Lahm. "We are less static in possession, more flexible, we have a much better mix between attack and defence and everyone's working hard all over the pitch."

I dont see where he says van gaal laid the foundations??

 

[711]

Stop lying.

The season before Van Gaal arrived , Barca won the Spanish cup and super cup and the European cup winners cup under Sir Bobby Robson.

Cruyff is Barca's most succesful manager with 4 league titles and Barca's first European cup.

As someone who doesn't claim to know an awful lot about european football I'm getting a bit pissed off with people posting stuff that I assume is true, then finding it's factually incorrect, but there's no acknowledgement or apology. Come on mods, I don't want the cafe to lose credibility.

 

[Santiago_KinderBueno]

As someone who doesn't claim to know an awful lot about european football I'm getting a bit pissed off with people posting stuff that I assume is true, then finding it's factually incorrect, but there's no acknowledgement or apology. Come on mods, I don't want the cafe to lose credibility.

Barca didn't win the la liga for 4 years prior to van gaal. Hows that for credibility?
If anyones lying its that guy acting like spanish cup and the uefa cup was a big deal.

Also maybe do some research your self. This is a forum for opinions - not facts.

 

[Winrar]

Quotes from the same article,

Lahm is full of praise for a side that outplayed Real Madrid in the semi-final ("that's when we realised that we are at the same level as the very best in the world") and that has found a sense of tactical maturity and balance under the 66-year-old Jupp Heynckes. "He's rectified Van Gaal's mistakes," says Lahm. "We are less static in possession, more flexible, we have a much better mix between attack and defence and everyone's working hard all over the pitch."

I dont see where he says van gaal laid the foundations??

the underlined part also seems awful lot like the exact opposite of what's happening here.

 

[Arytonblue]

I support Milan as a foreign team because i grew up watching Italian football. The only way I see them getting back to their best is a manager like him who isnt so heavily reliant on money as say 3/4 of the managers atm.

250m pounds later....

 

[Santiago_KinderBueno]

250m pounds later....

What's so funny? At a time when the average key player like de bryune costs 50 mil. A player like carrol cost 35 & shelvey cost 12 million just yesterday. 250 is shit all for a club our wise especially considering the amount of money we got back from sales.



Just any excuse whatsoever.

 

[JPRouve]

the underlined part also seems awful lot like the exact opposite of what's happening here.

Opposite? Are you sure about that? Lahm is talking about what Heynckes changed.

 

[Santiago_KinderBueno]

Looks like everyone is agreeing now that heyneckes fixed up LVG's rigidity.

Ahh this forum is wonderful.

 

[Winrar]

Opposite? Are you sure about that? Lahm is talking about what Heynckes changed.

my bad, my post was poorly worded.

what I meant to say is van gaal's mistakes that lahm lists is exactly what's happening with us.

 

[Attila]

What's so funny? At a time when the average key player like de bryune costs 50 mil. A player like carrol cost 35 & shelvey cost 12 million just yesterday. 250 is shit all for a club our wise especially considering the amount of money we got back from sales.



Just any excuse whatsoever.

Sanchez - 30m
Douglas Costa £25m
Payet - 10m
Hernandez - 7m

Just because Andy Carroll went for 35m it doesn't mean it's impossible to buy good players at a decent price. And De Bruyne was meant to be one of the very best players in Germany and has started off well for city so 50m doesn't seem bad

 

[Ventura]

Can someone find out how many shots we've had in our last 3/5/7 prem games compared to other teams?

After a thorough scientific study of this question, I calculated the exact answer using formulas too complicated to explain here, and the answer is:

Very few indeed!

 

[Speak]

Yea i do think we looked at it deep. Van gaal obviously needs to focus a bit more on current results but hiring a manager like van gaal who has not the best title winning credits - leads me on to this.

Na, I think he was just the best manager available. Nothing more or less.