Is there less passion in the Premier League these days?

[altodevil]

I've been binging Sky Sports Retro recently (great new YouTube channel), watching highlights and moments from the early 2000s. The game seems so different to now. Genuine rivalries between clubs and managers, players showing emotion on the pitch and off it. Even the commentary feels more invested in the match they are covering.

It's led me to think that today there just isn't as much passion shown by players and managers as there once was. What say the caf?

I accept I may just be blindingly nostalgic for the time period.

 

[Vooon]

I've been binging Sky Sports Retro recently (great new YouTube channel), watching highlights and moments from the early 2000s. The game seems so different to now. Genuine rivalries between clubs and managers, players showing emotion on the pitch and off it. Even the commentary feels more invested in the match they are covering.

It's led me to think that today there just isn't as much passion shown by players and managers as there once was. What say the caf?

I accept I may just be blindingly nostalgic for the time period.

I think you're right, but I'm not really sure why.

A guess would be the insane amount of money flying around doing something to a player's menatlity, less local players in most of the clubs (or is it?), and the alienation of the traditional fan bases and fan culture.

Look to Germany on how to fix it. That's a country where all those things you claim are missing are still very much alive in my opinion. Just imagine an Old Trafford version of Dortmund's yellow wall and what it would do to the club and players on the pitch.

 

[Striker10]

What a time to make a thread like this? I think perhaps people are more cynical. The games being ruined by money and sometimes it probably creates people to become disconnected. I think a packed OT would have been pissed at the penalty incident vs palace with VAR looking to be relevant with the introduction of stupidity. But look at whats going on in the world. Football should be a release but it's going the wrong way in general not just the premier league.

 

[SiRed]

Speaking personally.... i have deliberately 'toned it down a bit' in terms of passion over the last 10 years. I found myself becoming extremely moody, angry and impossible to be around when we lose.
I dont get like that anymore - consequently when we score or win, the elation is less intense also. Almost like im numb to it.

In general i get what you mean. I re-watched some games from the mid 90s recently and the atmosphere seemed incredible compared to todays games.

 

[El Zoido]

It’s not really socially acceptable to get passionate like that any more. Everything is super sanitised and palatable for the audience.

 

[jderbyshire]

I think it's a broader cultural issue - we are more individualistic/consumerist, less likely to genuinely emotionally invest or immerse ourselves in tribalism (despite recent political/ideological polarization online - which I personally don't feel is representative of the population as a whole)

Also, the internet/social media occupies our attention/enthusiasm more. It's like saying why isn't there mass passionate counter-cultural music scenes anymore (like punk, grunge, etc.) - the short answer is people have other options to fill their time now.

Punk, rave and football used to free us from the mundanity of modern life. Now we look to Twitter, Instagram, etc.

I think also due to social media we are a bit more self-aware than before. A lot of us feel watched, judged perhaps - not willing to look eccentric, vulnerable, earnest in public.

I don't know though - I'm certainly curious to hear how other people feel about this.

TL;DR - Capitalism gradually sucks the joy out of everything.

 

[WeePat]

Speaking personally.... i have deliberately 'toned it down a bit' in terms of passion over the last 10 years. I found myself becoming extremely moody, angry and impossible to be around when we lose.
I dont get like that anymore - consequently when we score or win, the elation is less intense also. Almost like im numb to it.

In general i get what you mean. I re-watched some games from the mid 90s recently and the atmosphere seemed incredible compared to todays games.

I don't know how old you are, but is that not just a sign of someone getting older. I used bounce off the walls in excitement when Chelsea scored a goal in my teens, my whole weekend and most of the following week would be ruined by a defeat. I'm nowhere near as emotionally invested now as an adult. I don't know, there may be more to it, but I've always put that change in me down just growing up.

 

[Matt007a]

I always thought televised games seemed better when the commentator would have to shout to get over the noise of the crowd. If you watch Sky footage from the 90s it sounds like Martin Tyler is sitting in the main stand with the fans. I presume the main difference now is the sound technology has improved to make him sound much clearer. I think it takes away some of the immersion and the sense of passion though. You don't feel like you're there as much now as crowd noise is dampened.

I'm not sure if the players have less passion to win on the inside, it's just they're much more reserved on the outside. They're all media trained to be emotionless robots whenever possible, so cameras don't pick up anything untowards or controversial. Club image is far too important.

 

[SiRed]

I don't know how old you are, but is that not just a sign of someone getting older. I used bounce off the walls in excitement when Chelsea scored a goal in my teens, my whole weekend and most of the following week would be ruined by a defeat. I'm nowhere near as emotionally invested now as an adult. I don't know, there may be more to it, but I've always put that change in me down just growing up.

Yeah i guess it could be. I am 36 now so it would seem feasible.
I remember being in a right stinker of a mood when City beat us 1-0. My mate said why are you bothered.... Wayne Rooney isnt bothered about you if you have a sh1t day in work. Think that was the turning point

 

[Lay]

I don't know how old you are, but is that not just a sign of someone getting older. I used bounce off the walls in excitement when Chelsea scored a goal in my teens, my whole weekend and most of the following week would be ruined by a defeat. I'm nowhere near as emotionally invested now as an adult. I don't know, there may be more to it, but I've always put that change in me down just growing up.

Same for me too. A bad result in my teens would piss me off and a win would have me elated. I would have sleepless nights after a loss I'm 34 now and when I was in my mid 20s I toned it all down to where now a bad result is almost laughed off. I would feel like a prick if I was in a bad mood due to a football match, especially now I have a young family. I'd rather not waste their time being a dick about a result I have no control over.

 

[diarm]

I was flicking through the tv channels a couple of weeks ago and one of the sports channels was showing an old United Arsenal game from some time between 2000 and 2002. It wasn't one of the famous games but it was just so much more enjoyable than any game I've watched in recent years.

The quality on show from both sides was incredible, but more than that - the game was just a better watch - players dived a couple of times, but they weren't throwing themselves to the floor at the slightest touch, the referee let the game go and wasn't blowing his whistle every 10 seconds for the softest things. The commentators were into the game but they weren't sensationalising every tiny thing and most of all, when the officials made a questionable decision, they mentioned it but then let it go.

You didn't have a thousand replays of every borderline decision, with 400 camera angles and slo-mo dissecting every little thing and a questionable call didn't dictate the conversation for the rest of the game and beyond.

It's hard to get passionate about the game these days because largely, it's so shite to watch. It's so tactical and cynical and soft that I struggle to relate it to the game I fell in love with playing and watching growing up. The game rewards tacticians, cynical defenders and playacters more now than it does the technical magicians and individual brilliance of before.

When I mention playacting as well, I'm not talking about the attacker going down easily in the box. It's the centre back going up for a header against a midget in the midfield, mistiming it and throwing himself to the floor - and seeing the ref reward him every single time. Or the fullback obstructing an attacker from getting to the ball out wide, then diving at the slightest contact and winning the easy freekick. All the contact and physical contest has gone out of the game unless it's inside the penalty area and it is the attacker being physical.

Watching football now is 25% annoying adverts, analysts and commentators sensationalising shite, 25% referees blowing their whistle, 25% bitching and moaning about referees decisions, 20% negative, cynical and over tactical football and 5% quality.

 

[youngrell]

I think the rules of the game have had an effect. I'm not one to advocate dangerous play, but a crunching tackle in the opening moments of a derby would set the tone for the match. The tone these days would be a red card for anyone doing anything like that and a timid rest of the match in comparison.

I also think the make-up of squads has reduced the intensity of rivalries etc. Back in the 90s/00s even though there was still a massive amount of foreign players, most of the teams, including the top teams, had a nucleus of home-grown players who understand the rivalry more (or care about it at all). And these players were usually the top dogs in their team also.

 

[MancunianAngels]

I think it's a broader cultural issue - we are more individualistic/consumerist, less likely to genuinely emotionally invest or immerse ourselves in tribalism (despite recent political/ideological polarization online - which I personally don't feel is representative of the population as a whole)

Also, the internet/social media occupies our attention/enthusiasm more. It's like saying why isn't there mass passionate counter-cultural music scenes anymore (like punk, grunge, etc.) - the short answer is people have other options to fill their time now.

Punk, rave and football used to free us from the mundanity of modern life. Now we look to Twitter, Instagram, etc.

I think also due to social media we are a bit more self-aware than before. A lot of us feel watched, judged perhaps - not willing to look eccentric, vulnerable, earnest in public.

I don't know though - I'm certainly curious to hear how other people feel about this.

TL;DR - Capitalism gradually sucks the joy out of everything.

Great post

 

[DrRodo]

Nah, just a bias because our team plays like sh*t now

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Nah, just a bias because our team plays like sh*t now

Not really. Where's the rivalry like ours Vs Arsenal now? The dislike between SAF /Mourinho and Wenger. Or the stuff we used to see in Spain. It's all a bit timid and proper. Or maybe those are anomalies but I think the game has been sanitized. But that's how it everywhere - redcafe included.

 

[drdoityourself]

I cannot overstate how bad VAR has been for this sport. Every emotion or reaction comes with a sense of doubt that VAR will intervene. That reluctance to commit might even show in today's commentary. I also miss the voice of Andy Gray in those big moments.

When I was a teenager the Arsenal rivalry was absolutely immense. My best friend is an Arsenal fan and we could hardly speak to each other around those games, like when the circled around Nistelrooy and pushed him around. Still angry about that moment. He still talks about how Neville and co. kicked Reyes and co. out of the park. Arsenal went soft many years ago, lack of senior homegrown/long serving players after Keown and co retired probably led to that apathy. There also haven't been major rivals competing for the title for some time now.

The players today are overpaid, hard to relate to and probably have a hard time relating to the average fan. With wages so high, power of agents and players, the results matter less, you just find a new 'project'.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

I cannot overstate how bad VAR has been for this sport.

I got that feeling watching league cup games this week and seeing a couple of nonsense handball in the box elicit nothing than a bit of a shout from the attacking player whilst the game continued uninterrupted.

 

[Mr. Ant]

I'm just 24 but I remember crying when Beckham went to Real. When we lost title to city on the last day I remember being feckin sad for days.
Even during Moyes season after each loss I would be fuming all week. I kind of don't care nowadays.

The squad is a lot more likeable as is Ole but the lack of ambition from the owners means I just know we won't challenge this season so what's the point being irritated by a few losses here and there?
But after the match against Crystal Palace I maybe felt some emotion for a few hours.

 

[Andy_Cole]

It’s not really socially acceptable to get passionate like that any more. Everything is super sanitised and palatable for the audience.

This. Any sort of passion is deemed cringe.

Can’t even wear football tops anymore with someone turning their nose.

 

[Pexbo]

I mean you were watching highlights...

I also think the current situation is also a bit fresh in your mind.

 

[tomaldinho1]

I think you're right, but I'm not really sure why.

A guess would be the insane amount of money flying around doing something to a player's menatlity, less local players in most of the clubs (or is it?), and the alienation of the traditional fan bases and fan culture.

Look to Germany on how to fix it. That's a country where all those things you claim are missing are still very much alive in my opinion. Just imagine an Old Trafford version of Dortmund's yellow wall and what it would do to the club and players on the pitch.

Germany seems to have a lot more fan engagement with clubs from what I can see & the 50+1 rule.

The money side is definitely a factor as well - PL has the feel of being a big business these days with the measures that were meant to control it (FFP) being completely pointless. Even Spurs new stadium was essentially a big story because it was 'more' than a stadium and basically a multi function business unit.

 

[acnumber9]

It’s probably at least partly because United are shit but I think football in general has been on a downturn for years. This emphasis on pressing turns games into scrappy pieces of shit for me. Athleticism has become considerably more important than ability.

 

[Vidyoyo]

I think it's a broader cultural issue - we are more individualistic/consumerist, less likely to genuinely emotionally invest or immerse ourselves in tribalism (despite recent political/ideological polarization online - which I personally don't feel is representative of the population as a whole)

Also, the internet/social media occupies our attention/enthusiasm more. It's like saying why isn't there mass passionate counter-cultural music scenes anymore (like punk, grunge, etc.) - the short answer is people have other options to fill their time now.

Punk, rave and football used to free us from the mundanity of modern life. Now we look to Twitter, Instagram, etc.

I think also due to social media we are a bit more self-aware than before. A lot of us feel watched, judged perhaps - not willing to look eccentric, vulnerable, earnest in public.

I don't know though - I'm certainly curious to hear how other people feel about this.

TL;DR - Capitalism gradually sucks the joy out of everything.

This is a good post. I find people are simply less passionate about everything these days, aside from perhaps politics (and then, it's not passion; more vented frustration).

It's kinda like we're being pulled in so many directions and nobody has the time/energy/focus to be passionate - and even if you are, and it's not bringing in money or sellable on social, then it's seen as kinda weird.

 

[Vooon]

Germany seems to have a lot more fan engagement with clubs from what I can see & the 50+1 rule.

Yes. I'm not sure if this is a state thing, or applies to the whole country, but some places you're able to use public transport for free on match day if you have a ticket. Parts of the stadiums are sometimes also split into sections, one for the hardcore fans, one for families, one for just the average guy etc. Not forgetting that sections of the stadiums also have standing terraces. Plus of course you're allowed to drink beer during the match (unless it's a high risk match). Tickets are generally pretty affordable as well, and most clubs offer a second market for reselling, and punishes people they catch on pages like viagogo with stadium bans.

There's a whole package building up the fan culture in Germany, it surely must do something about the players, coaches and everyone else involved in the game. The passion in general. Personally I find German football way more satisfying to watch now, the PL is no longer my first priority.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

I feel less passion personally since we are crap. Not sure if the league has less though. When there is a goal the players still go crazy etc and you can see the joy.
I guess for the fans there might be overall less passion around though. Fans are less tribal I think. People care more about bets,social media, fantasy football and arguments than just getting the wins for the teams they support.

 

[sammsky1]

Passion and energy is a limited resource. Football fans now waste a lot of it on social media trolling other fans or arguing ole is shit on redcafe.
Not much left for the stadiums!
Uncertain and delayed passion because of VAR probably contributes too.
Last: too many teams are now dependent on systems rather than individually brilliant players, so we see a lot less arousing skills

 

[AltiUn]

When artificial clubs like City and Wolves are among the top 8 it always feels more disconnected. There's probably a lot less passion from United's perspective that's been replaced with apathy after our collapse in recent years. I can sadly tell you that Liverpool fans are very much as passionate as ever.

I do find football has a lot less personality in it these days, there are fewer and fewer Roy Keanes knocking about, it's likely because the younger lads are media trained from a young age and protected at every opportunity. Just in England, I don't know if this is just me looking at things through nostalgia goggles, but huge English personalities at the elite English clubs used to fire people up and helped a lot of younger fans feel connected, they were at the top in their positions and everyone wanted to be like them. Your Rio Ferdinands, Wayne Rooneys, Ashley Coles, David Beckams, John Terrys etc. They all felt like real people, rather than the hyper-sanitzed athletes we've got now, they were imperfect and interesting. Just look at how passionate people got when England did well at the last World Cup.

 

[shamans]

When money comes in passion slowly dies.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

Yes. No doubt.

Rivalries between managers and players are less nowadays. Other than the big traditional club rivalries, it's more peaceful nowadays.

Interviews and on-pitch behaviors are also more "PC". Players with characters still exist, but I guess are a lot fewer in comparison to before.

Trade off is we get to focus more on the football, but emotionally it's not a good investment. Maybe it's better this way? I don't know.

 

[jackal&hyde]

United not being very good has to be part of the reason but I feel a turning point for me was when it was decided that it was ok for countries to own football clubs. It's not like football club owners were traditionally the saints of society, but to have dictators with a countries resources using football to wash genuine crimes it's just too much. UEFA was the worst thing about football and its corruption but compared to some of the owners they look like saints now.

Football has never been "clean" but now it's a big pile o crap covered in a thin layer of gold dust and a lot of us, the press most of all, pretend that we don't know what is actually beneath it all.

 

[Lord SInister]

Not just football, I think every entertainment department has become a PR managed business.
The characters are very less everywhere.
Everyone has to be either a generic good boy/girl, or a fake troublesome boy/girl.
Authentic characters are very few in today's world

 

[DevilRed]

Having no fans this season has made it worse.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

Having no fans this season has made it worse.

For sure the games are much worse to watch too.
There have been goals, but not much drama.

 

[fps]

The rules of the game don’t allow for the same passion on the pitch, nor do the coaches. It’s unsurprising that the modern game, with every player trained and flogged to within an inch of his life, is a less enjoyable watch.

When was the last time you watched a match, in terms of presentation, and the aftermath was a celebration of players’ abilities or drive rather than some “controversy” or other as well? They’re keeping the wheel spinning, not worrying about where the vehicle’s going.

 

[fps]

Not just football, I think every entertainment department has become a PR managed business.
The characters are very less everywhere.
Everyone has to be either a generic good boy/girl, or a fake troublesome boy/girl.
Authentic characters are very few in today's world

Film’s a great example. Film stars are unreliable, franchises with changeable faces are profitable. Result? No magic.

 

[90 + 5min]

I've been binging Sky Sports Retro recently (great new YouTube channel), watching highlights and moments from the early 2000s. The game seems so different to now. Genuine rivalries between clubs and managers, players showing emotion on the pitch and off it. Even the commentary feels more invested in the match they are covering.

It's led me to think that today there just isn't as much passion shown by players and managers as there once was. What say the caf?

I accept I may just be blindingly nostalgic for the time period.

It is all about money. It has ruined lot of passion. Lot of people are outpriced from stadiums. But as long as money is going in nobody (football powers) really care about that.

 

[a_devil_inside]

As I've gotten older I don't follow it or care as much, when we get beat I'll be gutted but move on shortly after.
As mentioned The game now seems to stop all the time, players diving or even 50/50's with the goalkeepers, everything seems to be a foul and players milk it too much.
There doesn't really seem to be as much rivalry between the players as they're all mates off the pitch anyways, a lot of the time you'll see opposition players giggling away.
Then there's everything just seems to be about money or brands. Everything is sponsored, clubs bring out new kits every season, players and agents getting ridiculous amounts of money.

Social media has kind of spoilt things too, there's no surprise element now as everything is shown on media.

Got to mention since Fergie left we've not had much to celebrate or be passionate about, still in 'transition', Glazers sucking us dry, players not 100% focused in the match.

 

[sugar_kane]

One thing that feels to have changed in recent years is that some of the brightest talents don’t really seem to care about football as much as their past equivalents.

Bale, Pogba, Dele, Hazard - just a few off the top of my head. I don’t get the sense they really care about football as much as the likes of Rooney and Ronaldo. It’s just a very lucrative career for them.

That’s part of why Liverpool are doing so well right now, they have a manager whose personality and motivational skills are strong enough to cut through all that and keep his players focussed and passionate.

Money has to be a factor - even mediocre players with middling careers can be earning six figure salaries nowadays, but I do think it could be generational as well.

For someone as talented as Bale to willingly let his legacy erode in the way he did suggests that infamy and success really isn’t as important to a lot of players any more.

 

[Mike Phelan's Former Tash]

Primarily sold as entertainment these days rather than a sport and everyone is an expert.