Is this one of the worst PL seasons in recent times?

[amolbhatia50k]

No, I'm not talking about Liverpool winning the league after 30 years but it just seems to me that the quality especially at the top end is really low.

Every year we hear about the league reaching new heights but even discounting an expected fall off from City after winning back to back titles, Leicester are a pretty weak 2nd/3rd placed team. And then you have Chelsea and United forming the worst 4th and 5th placed sides I've seen for awhile. I mean, we've got our worst points tally at this stage for ages and we're potentially 3 points off 4th! That's incredible. Then you have Arsenal who are a traditionally good team but awful this year.

What does the caf make of the standard of the league this season? That at the top end and otherwise.

 

[The_Midfielder]

Mourinhos 3rd season.. didnt even wanted to look up news

 

[Big Ben Foster]

I was just thinking about how the same thing seemed to happen in LVG's second season, which explains how we remained in the top four race until the end.

On the other hand, Moyes, for all his faults, had the misfortune of being our manager during a season where all the top teams were strong and five sides finished with over 70 points. (I'm not trying to argue we should've given him more time - he fully deserved the sack)

 

[manc4red]

I do not think the PL quality is low. Looking at our clubs in Europe, english clubs compete very well which tells me our quality is good.

I believe its a combination of Liverpool stepping into a gear that is unheard of and the PL money for all teams taking into effect. Even smaller clubs have resources to buy decent players now and closes the gap to the ‘big 6’.

Look at Everton, they are able to attract an Ancelotti now. Times are changing, I believe Liverpool is more of an outlier, the middle ground is now where most teams will compete

 

[Infordin]

2014/15 was probably the least memorable season ever, which is quite ironic as it was sandwiched between two of the most iconic PL seasons ever.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Chelsea and United are both going through a rebuild. Players get old, they get replaced. It is interesting that even though most would agree Chelsea are better run than us, that they too suffered from a bloated wage bill and too many aging mercenaries. Arsenal and Spurs are both going through manager transitions. I still think the year Leicester won it was the weakest season though, at one point Spurs had it in sight ffs.

 

[Sky1981]

Yep, the worst EPL season, and we're having 34 points from 22 games.

I'd say the EPL this year is the strongest ever, bar Liverpool running with it it's a dog eat dog year for the rest

 

[Daysleeper]

Yep, the worst EPL season, and we're having 34 points from 22 games.

I'd say the EPL this year is the strongest ever, bar Liverpool running with it it's a dog eat dog year for the rest

No way, after city there is a huge drop off

Pretty crummy teams 4-10 for the most part. Leicester will drop off their form as well

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

It's the worst it's been since 2015-2016.

League quality has really dropped off this year.

 

[Mb194dc]

Yes, bit of a bore fest other than who finishes 4th. Liverpool and City are miles ahead of the rest of the league.

Even struggling to get myself interested in that, good for the club to get the CL money, just feel Chelsea have no chance of winning it these days.

 

[Ludens the Red]

It does surprise me this is even debatable.... it is patently obvious that United, Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs and Everton are at the weakest they’ve been for many years. That’s five traditionally strong clubs.
All the evidence is there, pathetic points tallies, pathetic league positions, pathetic performances, mediocre managers, Managerial change arounds, transfer bans etc.
There’s been SiX months of Pl football and we’ve won 9 games and are 5th. That tells you a lot.

Then you have teams like West Ham who spend so much money and look like a Championship side most weeks.

Someone mentioned Europe as being evidence the PL is strong. Not sure about that, it has been only one season of solid all round English performance in Europe. On top of that some of the heavyweights are again at the weakest they’ve been for a few years. Barca, Real, Bayern, Atletico all look a lot weaker at the moment.

Liverpool are clearly on par with the best sides from the last ten years and that’s why it’s been such a stroll for them this season.

 

[Sky1981]

No way, after city there is a huge drop off

Pretty crummy teams 4-10 for the most part. Leicester will drop off their form as well

Why do you think there's a huge drop off?

because it turns out you can't outmuscle other teams in the EPL. The likes of Newcastle,Burnley, Everton Watford gives us the run for our money.

 

[B20]

top six, bar liverpool and city, are as poor as they've been for a good while.

The rest of the league is as strong as ever.

 

[TMDaines]

I think it is much a levelling out of the sides than the PL being poor. I think the PL compares favourably with sides from the other top European leagues: FiveThirtyEight’s model seems to think so too. It’s Serie A that is looked as being dire there, with Juventus barely making their top 10 sides and Inter being ranked a bit worse than us.

You’ve got the remember that the PL at this stage is almost a European Super League in terms of playing personnel and coaching staff. Even traditionally more provincial sides like Norwich have a host of well regarded international players and coaches. No other top European league is like that.

 

[Gordon S]

Yes, Spurs, Arsenal, Chelsea and Us are all having poor seasons. It is quite rare that 4 big clubs are having problems at the same time. The rest of the pack are having more regular seasons.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

It does surprise me this is even debatable.... it is patently obvious that United, Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs and Everton are at the weakest they’ve been for many years. That’s five traditionally strong clubs.
All the evidence is there, pathetic points tallies, pathetic league positions, pathetic performances, mediocre managers,

It definitely is debatable. After the group stages in Europe the English clubs top the UEFA coefficients for performances in Europe.

https://www.uefa.com/memberassociations/uefarankings/country/

I'd argue that this could suggest that the lesser sides in the PL are getting stronger and are more able to take points off the traditional stronger sides. I'd sit on the fence a little because I do feel that there could be a cull of English sides in the European knockouts in February. That said, if you look at PL sides performances in the 15/16 and 16/17 seasons then the sides already have as many points as those seasons so it definitely suggests that the league is considerably stronger now than then.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Yeah it sucks. The relegation battle is probably the only interesting thing. There are very few good sides to watch. We're shit too.

Don't think I've ever watched so few games in a season before. I basically just tune in for our games (which are usually sleep inducing) and a few other big ones. Even then I've barely watched them since it became clear Pool will win the league.

 

[Ludens the Red]

It definitely is debatable. After the group stages in Europe the English clubs top the UEFA coefficients for performances in Europe.

https://www.uefa.com/memberassociations/uefarankings/country/

I'd argue that this could suggest that the lesser sides in the PL are getting stronger and are more able to take points off the traditional stronger sides. I'd sit on the fence a little because I do feel that there could be a cull of English sides in the European knockouts in February. That said, if you look at PL sides performances in the 15/16 and 16/17 seasons then the sides already have as many points as those seasons so it definitely suggests that the league is considerably stronger now than then.

Coefficients tend to look the same, getting to the knockout stage I wouldn’t rank as achievements. English sides getting to finals and winning in Europe had been on a downward spiral until Liverpool.
You could argue that the Pl bottom half is stronger but then just ask yourself, like ask yourself. Are United, Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs and Everton at the level they have been at over the previous 5-6 years. If you answer that honestly then it will give you your answer to the question of whether the league is stronger.

 

[PickledRed]

Yes, Spurs, Arsenal, Chelsea and Us are all having poor seasons. It is quite rare that 4 big clubs are having problems at the same time. The rest of the pack are having more regular seasons.

United spent years winning the league with only Arsenal as a decent rival - and that wasn't consistent. There was no talk about a dearth of quality then, just a celebration of how strong United were.

City's current points tally is very typical (bit better) of a second placed side after 24 games based on the previous decade. Liverpool's points tally is unprecedented after 22 games which is potentially distorting the debate.

English teams' predominance in Europe is further indication of strength in the Premier League. The difference is that there are now some very strong 'also rans' that are disrupting the traditional bigger sides - Leicester and Wolves being the obvious two, but also Sheff Utd this season.

 

[B20]

Everton is more or less where they usually are - midtable. Still only 4 points off 5th.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Coefficients tend to look the same, getting to the knockout stage I wouldn’t rank as achievements. English sides getting to finals and winning in Europe had been on a downward spiral until Liverpool.
You could argue that the Pl bottom half is stronger but then just ask yourself, like ask yourself. Are United, Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs and Everton at the level they have been at over the previous 5-6 years. If you answer that honestly then it will give you your answer to the question of whether the league is stronger.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'coefficients tend to look the same'?

I'd argue that intra-league fixtures are a weaker way to interpret the strength of a league than through European competition, through European performances you get a better relative measure. The best sides in the PL were doing relatively poorly 5-7 years ago in Europe so the league was 100% weaker then than it is now in my opinion.

You have to look at last season as a high water mark for the PL, all four finalists in Europe were English. In that regard I'd say its highly likely that the league isn't as strong this year as last. That said the idea that its 'the weakest its been in years' is completely incorrect in my opinion and I think the evidence supports that.

 

[redman5]

This is the best PL season ever. From 1993 to 2013 it was shit. No mark clubs winning it year after year......Boring.

 

[ariveded]

Is it despite or because of money? Are teams getting better because of money and thus cancelling out each other often? Or are teams struggling despite the money due to weak quality?

As a fan, its fantastic season, with so many upsets. Yet, for the huge money, it all makes it a farce. Surely teams should pay players by more performances related bonus than the huge fixed fees...

 

[LFCKop]

Those who say it is the worst season, I'd like to understand their idea of best season. Liverpool is in in freak form since they lost the lead to City last season but apart from that I feel all teams are quite competitive. Even yesterday Sheffield United gave a good match to City or Newcastle managed to get a draw with Everton.
I understand there is no exciting title race this season (yet) but I believe next season once Liverpool's luck dries out (opposition fans waiting for it since last season) and we return to normal form, we should have an exciting title race again.

 

[Nickelodeon]

Terms like Big 4 in 2000's and Big 6 currently are fashionably used. But it's clear now that there are 2 big teams like it used to with United and Arsenal before Chelsea had emerged with Mourinho. Rest all are way way off. Liverpool winning the league with a huge margin this year is akin to our PL win in 2000. It doesn't mean they'll have a similar stroll next year. But Chelsea, United and Arsenal particularly should hang their head in shame. At least, Chelsea have the transfer ban reason but United have decidedly stopped acting like a big club (except in terms of fees and wages).

 

[Ludens the Red]

I'm not sure what you mean by 'coefficients tend to look the same'?

I'd argue that intra-league fixtures are a weaker way to interpret the strength of a league than through European competition, through European performances you get a better relative measure. The best sides in the PL were doing relatively poorly 5-7 years ago in Europe so the league was 100% weaker then than it is now in my opinion.

You have to look at last season as a high water mark for the PL, all four finalists in Europe were English. In that regard I'd say its highly likely that the league isn't as strong this year as last. That said the idea that its 'the weakest its been in years' is completely incorrect in my opinion and I think the evidence supports that.

Not really, because the traditionally strong European teams are weaker now. In the same way it is obvious United, Chelsea and Arsenal in particular are weaker. Bayern Barca Atletico and Real are weaker. You can’t measure things purely based on European knockout performance. Spurs last year performances and results wise were at their worse for the entirety of Poch’s reign yet reached a CL final and Arsenal reaching a final under Emery speaks for itself. 5-7 years ago Barcelona, Real Madrid and Bayern were monster sides, even the best English teams had no chance against them.
Let’s put it in plain statistics, United, Arsenal, Chelsea and Spurs have played 94 times in total this season and they have 35 wins between them. That tells you everything.

United spent years winning the league with only Arsenal as a decent rival - and that wasn't consistent. There was no talk about a dearth of quality then, just a celebration of how strong United were.

City's current points tally is very typical (bit better) of a second placed side after 24 games based on the previous decade. Liverpool's points tally is unprecedented after 22 games which is potentially distorting the debate.

English teams' predominance in Europe is further indication of strength in the Premier League. The difference is that there are now some very strong 'also rans' that are disrupting the traditional bigger sides - Leicester and Wolves being the obvious two, but also Sheff Utd this season.

Dunno about that first bit, we had challenges from Newcastle, Blackburn, Liverpool, Chelsea and even Leeds had decent teams.
Think maybe there’s an element of defensiveness because Liverpool are about to win the league and maybe there’s an assumption people are criticising the quality of the PL because of that but that isn’t the case. This Liverpool team are clearly special and are as good as any of the great PL sides, but their record over the last year is also indicative that it is almost ‘too easy’ for them. And I’m not talking about bottom half teams, the ease of which Liverpool are dispatching of the likes of ourselves, Spurs, Chelsea, Arsenal is not a good reflection on those teams.

 

[Raj70]

United spent years winning the league with only Arsenal as a decent rival - and that wasn't consistent. There was no talk about a dearth of quality then, just a celebration of how strong United were.

City's current points tally is very typical (bit better) of a second placed side after 24 games based on the previous decade. Liverpool's points tally is unprecedented after 22 games which is potentially distorting the debate.

English teams' predominance in Europe is further indication of strength in the Premier League. The difference is that there are now some very strong 'also rans' that are disrupting the traditional bigger sides - Leicester and Wolves being the obvious two, but also Sheff Utd this season.

United won the league with 76 and 79 points respectively in the late 90's with only Arsenal a serious rival until Chelsea came into money in 2004 (with spurs, man city, and liverpool nowhere to be seen. And apart from United winning the Champions League in 1999, English sides were doing nothing in Europe prior to 2005.

It does seem there is an agenda to discredit what Liverpool are doing at the moment. Ironically if Liverpool were just a couple of points ahead of City people would say how great the league is.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

This is the best PL season ever. From 1993 to 2013 it was shit. No mark clubs winning it year after year......Boring.

I see what you did there.

 

[PickledRed]

Dunno about that first bit, we had challenges from Newcastle, Blackburn, Liverpool, Chelsea and even Leeds had decent teams.
Think maybe there’s an element of defensiveness because Liverpool are about to win the league and maybe there’s an assumption people are criticising the quality of the PL because of that but that isn’t the case. This Liverpool team are clearly special and are as good as any of the great PL sides, but their record over the last year is also indicative that it is almost ‘too easy’ for them. And I’m not talking about bottom half teams, the ease of which Liverpool are dispatching of the likes of ourselves, Spurs, Chelsea, Arsenal is not a good reflection on those teams.

Newcastle, Blackburn, Liverpool, Chelsea and even Leeds never pushed United as a collective group of sides - one off seasons where they would be strong but they weren't all strong at the same time looking to pip United to the title. There seems to be a suggestion that the league is weak because the 'big 6' aren't all doing well.

I do think there is a narrative being developed from certain rivals about a 'weak' league as it's a way of dismissing Liverpool's achievements - not suggesting that is the only motivation.

Liverpool are slotting some good teams but I would argue that's because they are such a complete and balanced side with few weaknesses that has been rarely seen in the PL era.

 

[RuudTom83]

I’m swaying more to the side of...the quality has been poor! Chelsea, Arsenal, Tottenham and United are teams full of problems and inconsistencies.

 

[Bocca9978]

Was thinking the same thing this morning.
Top half is shocking. Top four is there for the taking but we are so inconsistent we won't do it.

Liverpool doing so well doesn't help.

 

[Pexbo]

top six, bar liverpool and city, are as poor as they've been for a good while.

The rest of the league is as strong as ever.

You keep telling yourself that

 

[Ban]

Liverpool fans might be offended with this.
Oh it already happened.

 

[acnumber9]

I think football in general is getting a little bit poorer. I don’t think the overall quality is what it was ten-fifteen years ago. But then I would say that being a Utd fan.

 

[Siorac]

You keep telling yourself that

Is he wrong though? From the top 6 down, there's always been a lot of dross in the Premier League, with some unexpected quality sometimes. Mid-table teams and relegation candidates don't seem much different from the usual to me.

 

[PickledRed]

I’m swaying more to the side of...the quality has been poor! Chelsea, Arsenal, Tottenham and United are teams full of problems and inconsistencies.

Yet they're all in Europe after Christmas.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

top six, bar liverpool and city, are as poor as they've been for a good while.

The rest of the league is as strong as ever.

What's the argument for this?

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Yet they're all in Europe after Christmas.

Not saying much.

You could argue a lot of the top teams have declined throughout Europe.

 

[Sandikan]

Really poor season.
One team miles clear.
Race for top 4 arguably the lowest quality in a decade
Most teams much of a muchness.
10 teams could be relegated and wouldn't be missed.

 

[B20]

What's the argument for this?

The quality of the teams subjectively, the way everyone is taking points off everyone. Other leagues don't even have a "top six", let alone have teams like Leicester, wolves and Sheffield who can mix it up with them.