Countless games in midfield three? He's played there about 3 times. Playing behind forward isn't the same.
Is this the start of Rooney's transition into midfield?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
I think he plays there with a little too much responsibility right now, which isn't strange considering it's new for him. I'm pretty certain if he was played there much more, he's start to let the handbrake off more and more as he grows into the role. There's no reason at all for me why he couldn't do a Schweinsteiger if that's what SAF wanted.
Did they say when? What were the exact quotes? I see him playing there once his abilities as an attacker diminish and I don't see that happening till at least when he hits 30 simply because his attacking qualities are far better than those a midfield primarily uses,
Such as?
My guess is "doing a schweinsteiger" is something you see extremely rarely which is why a lot of people have reservations.
I understand "reservations" and I have them too of course, but to dismiss the idea entirely as though it's a complete joke seems bizarre to me.
He's not gonna play in the style of Yaya Toure; agreed. I think I addressed that point, but whatever.
Shooting, finding space in the final third, having a great moment to affect the game etc as opposed to running the tempo of a game, defending, playmaking etc.
It's just such a waste. Give me someone like modric who has that close control anyday. Or heck, play cleverley instead. And it's not a slight because Rooney has other qualities which are made better use of much further forward.
It's not a joke. But for me it would shock me if it happened. There's a reason why these things happen so so rarely.
Wow, were they the best attributes you could come up with to show how his skill set is better suited to being a striker?
Aren't those the MOST important attributes a striker needs to have?
And regarding schweinsteiger, wasn't his career sort of petering out with him not really meeting his early potential? He sort of needed some reinvention to really utilise his talent I think. Rooney isn't floundering. He's doing just fine.
1. Shooting, 2. finding space, 3. "having a great moment".
I'd say 1 & 3 are well, whatever, winger, midfielder, anyone who isn't a defender/defensive minded player you'd want that from.
I'd say 1 & 3 are well, whatever, winger, midfielder, anyone who isn't a defender/defensive minded player you'd want that from.
Personally I'd also much rather we signed a genuine world class midfielder, but SAF has obviously struggled to do just that for many years now. I believe that Rooney could be a world class CM, and I also believe that we have good enough striking options to warrant such a sacrifice should it appear necessary, which right now it does. If we sign Yaya Toure in the summer then I'd soon change my mind; SAF's track record suggests that this won't happen though so Rooney at CM seems a very good solution.
Nope.
He's still playing about as many games per season for Bayern and the national team. Bayern decided they wanted a different kind of wing-play and moved him inside, it worked beautifully. Schweinsteiger was doing just fine too, but they thought it best for the team to see how he could do inside, maybe SAF is thinking the same.
That's stupid. Shooting (finishing if you want) and finding space in the final third are the two most important attributes for a striker to have. And yes, as an attacker you need have one great moment out of 10 to make a difference whereas a midfielder needs to be a lot more consistent in his play without threatening as much.
It's as if you want more flowery words when I'm using the most obvious and relevant ones.
Yeah but he wasn't a top player was he? Playing games and being brilliant are two different things. It's not like he just continued his same level of quality in a different position to suit the teams needs. He actually went up a few notches as a player.
Well shooting and finishing are very different to be fair, it's not just a more "flowery" word, it's a completely different meaning.
It's the same bloody thing! When you shoot in decent positions you're looking to finish off chances! Obviously if I'm talking about a striker I don't mean shooting from 30 yards out.
Yes he was. (came 2nd in the Silbernes Lorbeerblatt in 2006 fwiw).
He did go from a top class player to a World Class player once moved inside though, I'll give you that.
Rooney doesn't show timing and reading of the play upfront? Unbelievable.
Of course Rooney would get goals if he were to play in midfield.
Fair enough. I never saw the fuss about him till he turned into a central midfielder, personally.
Very strange opinion then.. I mean, just have a little read.
Euro 2004
Bastian Schweinsteiger was called-up for Euro 2004. Bayern's number 31 earned rave reviews for his performances in Portugal, showing combative skills and even setting up the opening goal for former Bayern teammate Michael Ballack in Germany's 2–1 loss against the Czech Republic.
World Cup 2006
He scored his first two international goals on 8 June 2005 against Russia and scored his first goal in a competitive match against Tunisia on 18 June 2005 at the Confederations Cup in Germany.[9] He was called-up to the 2006 FIFA World Cup on home soil and shot into prominence at the tournament with his two brilliant long-range strikes in the third place match against Portugal, which won him the Man of the Match award.[10] The match ended 3–1 with the 22-year-old nearly claiming a hat-trick but his deflected free kick was credited as an own-goal to Armando Petit.
At the age of 22, he had already played 41 matches for the German national team, a record for any German player at the time.
I mean, this is the lad playing left wing aged at the World Cup, aged 22, vs. Portugal:
You didn't "see the fuss"... ok.
So would we all, I guess. But what are the odds? Of us actually buying a “world class” central midfielder capable of shining in our present set-up?
Rooney is a better footballer than both Cleverley and Anderson – by some distance, I'd say. If he can utilize his talent in a midfield role he would strengthen our team. Giggs, who has been mentioned aplenty in this thread, made himself a CM of sorts – but a decisively attacking one. Rooney would be something similar – only better suited in many ways to a central role. Rooney won't transform into Redondo overnight – but he can become an attacking central midfielder. That isn't worlds apart from the deep lying hybrid role he has played for us so many times already.
Whether it's a waste (because he's still better as a sheer striker/forward) and whether a combination of Rooney and Carrick in the middle will be enough against the top sides in Europe – well, those are very legitimate questions. But it really isn't an insane idea to give this thing a try. Rooney has always been a little too versatile for his own good. When he's been off form he's often enough looked like neither fowl nor fish in that hybrid role of his. Perhaps he would actually thrive in an even deeper role. And if it doesn't work out – well, we tried. My feeling is that Fergie has what yer average Caf member calls a “world class CM” some way down on his list of priorities. Perhaps a re-invented Rooney will turn out to be closer to that description than anyone we're likely to bring in.
Lastly, it's clear as day that Wayne Rooney – of all people – once he settles into a midfield role will be able to provide goals and assists from his new position. The question is whether he will remain too offensive – not whether he'll be able to profit from his offensive qualities.
Exactly. No one has said that it has to happen or will definitely work, just that it's worth pursuing and trying out a couple more times. For all anyone knows it could get the best out of him, he certainly has the raw attributes for it. Simply dismissing it is really strange and close minded IMO.I've been on the Rooney in midfield (eventually) bandwagon since 2007. I think that by the time he's in his mid 30's he'll have been playing centrally for many years.
Considering Carrick almost always butt-rapes his midfield partner with his number of passes, it was extremely impressive that Rooney attempted more passes than him at the weekend.
He doesn't really play "behind a forward" in the classical way though.
His role when played "off a striker" is much much closer to being in a midfield and thus making the formation a 4-5-1/4-3-3 than it is to being a 4-4-1-1 as most "off the striker" type players would usually play in.
Playing "off the striker" is typically a role played by a striker who looks to find space around the area and constantly feed the wingers or strikers.
What Rooney has done in countless games for us is drop deep into midfield and orchestrate between the half way line and the box.
Now I'm not saying he's done that in every game but it's something he has regularly done in periods for us in his time at the club. Now when Jones plays on the right side of defence for us and attacks up the line, we say he played at full back. Now why should it be any different for Rooney? When he spends most of the game dropping into midfield and orchestrating our attacks, he's playing for us as an attacking midfielder. He's not playing as a "Striker" just because that's the position we know him as. If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is an attacking midfielder.
Great post by Chester. Rooney has the game to be a fine attacking midfielder. And it is possible for a striker to make the transition, as Charlton and Scholes showed.
Nah, he's just standing on the shoulders of a giant. He's basically repeated what I said in the post he's quoted. As with most occasions, all credit must go to me on this occasion.
To further blow my own horn, I said this of Rooney the day before the Stoke game:
We know SAF is a fan of my posts after he copied my cow analogy more or less word for word at the time of the Ronaldo to Madrid saga, so it should come as no surprise to any of you that once again he's been inspired by me. He sees my post, it gets him thinking, Rooney wins MoM in a CM position.
I don't get the praise I deserve, but I can live with that; I'm happy for the gaffer to take the limelight whilst I continue to pull the strings in the engine room.
In contrast, five posts before me on Saturday, Sarni said this:
...and SAF promptly took the opportunity to shit on his face for being a Ihni binni dimi diniwiny anitaime.
Redcafe: it takes all sorts.
He doesn't in midfield. No!
He just about manages to get them playing behind the striker.. He wont get them in midfield. Believe me!!
You've hardly unearthed a gem of an idea. I wouldn't take credit if I was you.
If I were you I'd stop bothering in my attempts to analyse football; the waffle you've come out with above is a affront on the notion that humans are an intelligent species.
Ridiculous.
I know it's only a typo, but the fact that you called Frank Lampard 'Lamapard' just sums up the laughable nature of your entire existence.
There's absolutely no reason why Rooney couldn't be a top class centre mid. If anything, I think Rooney would eventually revel in a position whereby the more inconsistent aspects of his game wouldn't need to be utilised quite so much. For example, he tends to go off the boil a bit sometimes when he's being pressed in the attacking third with his back to goal - that's when his touch becomes a bit of a mess and our whole attacking game through the centre falls apart.
Although Rooney's clearly got the talent to play anywhere, I think he's very well suited to a more conservative role. He'd perhaps be more like the player Anderson should've been for us. His work rate, passing and brain are all at the required level at least and I think he'd pick up the positional side of central midfield fairly quickly given the way he plays when he drops deep anyway.
Although Rooney's clearly got the talent to play anywhere, I think he's very well suited to a more conservative role. He'd perhaps be more like the player Anderson should've been for us. His work rate, passing and brain are all at the required level at least and I think he'd pick up the positional side of central midfield fairly quickly given the way he plays when he drops deep anyway.
A man said waffle after he just rambled on about SAF reading his posts, trying to crack joke with yourself. You clearly don't have a clue.
I still stand by it, he'll never be a midfielder. He wasn't even that great yesterday and it was Stoke, the form they are in right now you could play Hulk Hogan there and he'd be decent.
Fergie has tried to convert various players into positions they are not capable of playing in and failed before, playing Rooney in midfield against Stoke (apparently to boost his confidence) doesn't make you right.
Bastian's weakness as a winger was his lack of speed and mediocre dribbling skills. He's excelled as a central midfielders.
If Fergie can turn an over 30 year old winger into a respectable CM, I'm sure he can turn Rooney, who has a better skillset for a central position than Giggs, into one too. Though I would personally see him as "the next Lampard" - an attacking midfielder with a great long shot and decent passing. Rooney would work harder than Lampard, but I can't see him being a passing threat like Scholes or a two-way midfielder like Gerrard.
I'll let the juices of unbalanced attacking wankdom flow:
---------Falcao-------
-Welbeck---------RVP-
----Kagawa-Rooney----
---------Carrick--------
If Fergie can turn an over 30 year old winger into a respectable CM, I'm sure he can turn Rooney, who has a better skillset for a central position than Giggs, into one too. Though I would personally see him as "the next Lampard" - an attacking midfielder with a great long shot and decent passing. Rooney would work harder than Lampard, but I can't see him being a passing threat like Scholes or a two-way midfielder like Gerrard.
I'll let the juices of unbalanced attacking wankdom flow:
---------Falcao-------
-Welbeck---------RVP-
----Kagawa-Rooney----
---------Carrick--------
Poor Smithy...
I still stand by it, he'll never be a midfielder. He wasn't even that great yesterday and it was Stoke, the form they are in right now you could play Hulk Hogan there and he'd be decent.
Fergie has tried to convert various players into positions they are not capable of playing in and failed before, playing Rooney in midfield against Stoke (apparently to boost his confidence) doesn't make you right.
Your dad must have a sperm count of one, because there isn't a chance in hell that the cell which spawned you beat anything to the punch.