It appears so from the last 2 games. A kind of mild repeat of the last season?
Is tiredness setting in?
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We beat Villa 3-0 and could have scored 6, and would have won last night if Romeu got sent off/Williams didn’t come off worst. Let’s see what happens against Palace first before we jump to conclusions.
Doesnt change the fact that we looked knackered and yet have to play the FA cup and EL
We looked off it from minute one last night, and we struggled in the first twenty minutes or so in the previous game to. I think the players are exhausted, especially Bruno who looked dead on his feet last night. Really worry for the Palace game.
Martial missed two glorious chances (should've passed to Greenwood in the second half) and Rashford missed an incredible chance as well. We should've been clear by mid second half. Then we lost both our left fullbacks in 15 minutes and couldn't make another sub. It wasn't fatigue.
We let Southampton dominate possession and out press us at home. Of course there is a level of tiredness.
I don’t think so. I think we were tired last night because Southampton run around a fecking lot and their game plan is to tire teams out. I don’t THINK that any of the other 3 teams we have left play a similar way. So we should hopefully be able to dictate the tempo and pick them off
If that's the case, then our rivals would be impacted too. Chelsea got outrun and outplayed by Sheffield. Leicester look a broken shell of a team.
I think more than tiredness it's just that it's just that no game is easy in the PL, especially for teams between 3rd and 5th given the standard of the 3rd-5th teams this year.
Yep. I think it’s easy to talk about fatigue, but Rashford and Martial missed very easy chances.
You get these kind of matches now and then. No need to worry just yet.
Remember that Southampton played really well and deserve credit.
Remember that Southampton played really well and deserve credit.
Southampton outpressed Manchester City a week ago. They are a very hard working team. Also, the same problems with aggressive pressing were present against Villa too. I'm sure towards the end of the game most players were exhausted but that's on both sides. Let's hope we bounce back against Palace.
Also Soton hardly kept up the press for the full 90 minutes. In the second half they looked tired. We only let them back into it because we took off the only players in the team who can hold onto the ball
I had a bit of a kneejerk reaction to the game last night and gave a lot of the players low ratings (good job I'm a newbie and don't have the priveldges to post in the post match thread yet 
) but having slept on it I do think we were a combination of tired, unlucky and admittedly poor for parts of the game.
These fixtures piling up must have been brutal for the team (I remember klopps teams used to get famously fatigued as the season went on because of the high intensity) along with us playing 120 mins v Norwich afew weeks ago, packed fixture list and the lockdown break the players were visibly knackered.
I think we were unlucky in a few departments, first one being the romeu disgraceful tackle on greenwood (let's be honest Bruno got away with a similar one on Mings last game to win the pen, so can't complain too much about that despite the situations being somewhat different) - not only should have had them down to 10 men but I think that coupled with Southampton's general 'physicality' might have put our already flagging players off going into tough 50-50s or overexerting which let soton gain control of the midfield and leaving vast amounts of space at the back for us.
This leads onto my next point about Williams (and to an extent Shaw) receiving injuries when going into a tough challenge (or overexerting while under lots of pressure in Shaw's case), which forced us down to 10 men in an already nervy stoppage time. Southampton are hard buggers and credit where it's due outplayed us for large sections of the match. We had some great chances and should have been 2 or 3 goals ahead going into the last 5-10 mins if we'd capitalised, but alas we didn't.
Taking all these into context I think the clear underlying issue last night was infact the tiredness in the squad: taking off our best players at a crucial stage, a flagging weary squad up against physical opponents, players missing sitters, players looking sloppy and giving the ball away.
Last night I was gutted but thinking rationally I believe we can still make top 4, however it will come at the cost of rotating in the FA cup unfortunately. If we win all of our remaining games in the league we get 4th automatically, and Chelsea will surely drop points (so will Leicester tbh).
Not ideal but given our recent reputation for bottling top 4 when it really matters (namely last year), the CAS decision today and a gutting last minute equaliser for Southampton after our recent brilliant run, I can understand people's frustrations as I was (and still am to extent). I can't see palace pressing us so intensely as Soton did so I think we just regroup and get a scrappy win against them, by hook or crook. Rotate v Chelsea and if we lose so be it (rather lose to them lot in the semis than city in the final anyway) and see where we are then. Remember Leicester and Chelsea have dropped points in way worse situations than us recently, they are probably dreading this run in. Last night was probably more of a "I'll take it but it's not ideal" for them than a "get in!!! Top 4 is ours now!!".
Anyway sorry for the long post.
TL;DR: Yeah tiredness is setting in so we need to rest players against Chelsea in the fa cup if we want to keep this brilliant run of form going into the last 3 games to get top 4, (which looked impossible in December).
) but having slept on it I do think we were a combination of tired, unlucky and admittedly poor for parts of the game.These fixtures piling up must have been brutal for the team (I remember klopps teams used to get famously fatigued as the season went on because of the high intensity) along with us playing 120 mins v Norwich afew weeks ago, packed fixture list and the lockdown break the players were visibly knackered.
I think we were unlucky in a few departments, first one being the romeu disgraceful tackle on greenwood (let's be honest Bruno got away with a similar one on Mings last game to win the pen, so can't complain too much about that despite the situations being somewhat different) - not only should have had them down to 10 men but I think that coupled with Southampton's general 'physicality' might have put our already flagging players off going into tough 50-50s or overexerting which let soton gain control of the midfield and leaving vast amounts of space at the back for us.
This leads onto my next point about Williams (and to an extent Shaw) receiving injuries when going into a tough challenge (or overexerting while under lots of pressure in Shaw's case), which forced us down to 10 men in an already nervy stoppage time. Southampton are hard buggers and credit where it's due outplayed us for large sections of the match. We had some great chances and should have been 2 or 3 goals ahead going into the last 5-10 mins if we'd capitalised, but alas we didn't.
Taking all these into context I think the clear underlying issue last night was infact the tiredness in the squad: taking off our best players at a crucial stage, a flagging weary squad up against physical opponents, players missing sitters, players looking sloppy and giving the ball away.
Last night I was gutted but thinking rationally I believe we can still make top 4, however it will come at the cost of rotating in the FA cup unfortunately. If we win all of our remaining games in the league we get 4th automatically, and Chelsea will surely drop points (so will Leicester tbh).
Not ideal but given our recent reputation for bottling top 4 when it really matters (namely last year), the CAS decision today and a gutting last minute equaliser for Southampton after our recent brilliant run, I can understand people's frustrations as I was (and still am to extent). I can't see palace pressing us so intensely as Soton did so I think we just regroup and get a scrappy win against them, by hook or crook. Rotate v Chelsea and if we lose so be it (rather lose to them lot in the semis than city in the final anyway) and see where we are then. Remember Leicester and Chelsea have dropped points in way worse situations than us recently, they are probably dreading this run in. Last night was probably more of a "I'll take it but it's not ideal" for them than a "get in!!! Top 4 is ours now!!".
Anyway sorry for the long post.
TL;DR: Yeah tiredness is setting in so we need to rest players against Chelsea in the fa cup if we want to keep this brilliant run of form going into the last 3 games to get top 4, (which looked impossible in December).
We were tired and sluggish. Southampton played really well. I feel that FA Cup is the one where we need to ring the changes. We play a midweek game against West Ham and will have significantly less recovery period for our game against Leicester. It’s better to take a chance on the FA Cup than risk losing the entire PL season.
Quite clear. Souhampton came out dominating us for 20 min or more at Old Trafford 
We're not rotating enough but can't put it all on Ole as the majority of our bench and reserves are shit. Who out of these players would've done a job: Bailly, James, Mata, McTominay, Pereira, Jones
Jones is injured but nonetheless. We have massive deadwood to rid ourselves of
Edit: Made a mistake adding Rojo. Even more irrelevant
We're not rotating enough but can't put it all on Ole as the majority of our bench and reserves are shit. Who out of these players would've done a job: Bailly, James, Mata, McTominay, Pereira, Jones
Jones is injured but nonetheless. We have massive deadwood to rid ourselves of
Edit: Made a mistake adding Rojo. Even more irrelevant
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Were Southampton tired?
They have nothing to play for really which believe it or not is far less pressuring. Mentally.
It’s inevitable that tiredness will set in and it will be very interesting to see which games Ole decides to rotate in. He has been very smart with Pogba/ Fernandes/ Greenwood/ Rashford and Martial as all have had a little break on at least 2 occasions over the last month.
I think for Thursday I’d freshen up at the back. Give Bailly a go next to Maguire and McTominay a run out over Matic. Hopefully Williams injury isn’t too bad as Shaws looked a bad one
I think for Thursday I’d freshen up at the back. Give Bailly a go next to Maguire and McTominay a run out over Matic. Hopefully Williams injury isn’t too bad as Shaws looked a bad one
Defo tired. And Ole doesn't trust the bench and its lack of depth.
We obviously struggle against the high press,between our back five and Matic we need to make one or two upgrades in order to become better at resisting the press,not every team can press as relentless and organized as Southampton,but u can also see the first 20mins vs villa as another example,it's probably going to be our biggest weakness going into next season.
This is why dreaming of the title is premature, we still have some way to go,we should still wrap up the top four...at the end of the day we didn't loose and on the same points with Leicester so I'll take the positive and move on
This is why dreaming of the title is premature, we still have some way to go,we should still wrap up the top four...at the end of the day we didn't loose and on the same points with Leicester so I'll take the positive and move on
Yes, definitely. There should have been some rotation last night (at minimum, one of the fullbacks, Matic, one of the front three). There will certainly be rotation vs Palace and West Ham.
Midfield looked tired last night. The problem we have is the quality of the squad is not there. First XI looks for the most part pretty decent, but after that we struggle then.
We couldn't deal with the pressing last night. Matic shouldn't have started.
Yep and rightfully so. If the first 11 doesn't get the job done, we're buggered. Ighalo can come on and hold the ball (something we desperately needed last night) but there's such a ridiculous step down in quality.
True. Sort of got exposed last night but we've seen it previously too when the pressure is high. I'm all for keeping him around but we need compliment.
For sure we did. Apart from the obvious Matic, Fernandes and Greenwood didn’t have their usual spark. Hopefully this will put to bed any thoughts of “we don’t need Sancho / whoever”
Yep.
Looked tired and sloppy from the first minute.
We started playing some good stuff after 20 minutes and we were looking good up until around 60 when we just fell flat.
It's tricky because you're reluctant to change a winning team, but tough matches every 3 days is going to catch up with us eventually.
Southampton ran there socks off also so we have to take that into account. They turned up to make a statement.
Looked tired and sloppy from the first minute.
We started playing some good stuff after 20 minutes and we were looking good up until around 60 when we just fell flat.
It's tricky because you're reluctant to change a winning team, but tough matches every 3 days is going to catch up with us eventually.
Southampton ran there socks off also so we have to take that into account. They turned up to make a statement.
My question is how deep a squad does Ole need to play OleBall? 24? We may have like 15 at the moment?
Yes, but thats not the only reason. Up until this match we had things all our own way and blew teams away with our attack, reducing the pressure on our defending. Against Southampton we had much more of an examination defensively.
Pogba and Matic as a partnership has never worked for us, till this run where we were blowing teams away with our attacking. Defensively its not at all solid and both have been caught on the ball in dangerous areas for teams to break on - not just against Southampton, but against Villa too. Villa werent a team able to capitalize on that but a team in better form like Southampton were more likely to do so.
The only period where our midfield worked with Pogba and Matic together was last season when Ander came in as a 3rd midfielder and did the legwork that was missing from the other two.
So, when we're playing teams we can dominate and attack against at will like the previous matches we should be okay. Matches against opponents that wont let us have it all our own way and will actually test us, the Pogba and Matic DM combination is going to lead to pressure on the defense and goalkeeper.
Pogba and Matic as a partnership has never worked for us, till this run where we were blowing teams away with our attacking. Defensively its not at all solid and both have been caught on the ball in dangerous areas for teams to break on - not just against Southampton, but against Villa too. Villa werent a team able to capitalize on that but a team in better form like Southampton were more likely to do so.
The only period where our midfield worked with Pogba and Matic together was last season when Ander came in as a 3rd midfielder and did the legwork that was missing from the other two.
So, when we're playing teams we can dominate and attack against at will like the previous matches we should be okay. Matches against opponents that wont let us have it all our own way and will actually test us, the Pogba and Matic DM combination is going to lead to pressure on the defense and goalkeeper.
It deffo seems like it, the last third of the match vs Southampton the players looked knackered.
The problem is the subs we have just aren't on the same level as the first team and Ole can't risk starting them because so much is on the line.
If they can just make it through these last 3 games and into the top 4 then that's brilliant. He can do whatever he wants in the FA Cup and Europa League, I wouldn't care.
The problem is the subs we have just aren't on the same level as the first team and Ole can't risk starting them because so much is on the line.
If they can just make it through these last 3 games and into the top 4 then that's brilliant. He can do whatever he wants in the FA Cup and Europa League, I wouldn't care.
All of the teams look tired. Ole has at least anticipated this more than the other managers in the league as he's made the most substitutions.
We've seen this before. Ole doesn't rotate his squad until tiredness and injury force him to. It's arguably one of his weaknesses as a manager.
which coach would change a team that has been scoring 3+ goals in their last 4 games (knowing that it easily could have been 5+ goals/free scoring)..no coaches would change a team like that (until injuries)
You need only look at the last two teams we've played being Southhampton and Aston Villa and note that both teams have focused on pressing us hard. We have also faced both teams in less than 4 days. Fatigue towards the end of Southampton was always going to be a factor.
In saying that, we walked through Southampton multiple times in the first 45 minutes and it really should have been 5 or 6 --2 by the end of the game.
In saying that, we walked through Southampton multiple times in the first 45 minutes and it really should have been 5 or 6 --2 by the end of the game.
No just utilize the players we've got. Let MacTominay start instead of Matic for example. More rotation we've got the depth imo!
McT not ready to handle the sole pivot role
Well no one's ever done that in the PL before so who's to say, but United hadn't played the same lineup for 5 matches in a row since 93.
You rotate so you can maximise points over the full run of games, not so you can break a meaningless record in three and tire everyone out.
He obviously thought he could get away with it as he's been subbing lads off after an hour. We'll have to see who starts and how we go against Palace.
The next few games aren't against teams who press so much so we may be ok.
We should not really be more tired than anyone else. Not rotating more might comeback and bite us, but I think we can afford it.
Maybe rest Bruno and Greenwood vs Palace. Then rest Pogba and Matic vs Chelsea. Maybe change fullbacks too depending on injuries.
Martial and Rashford looked fresh so should play all games and be taken off if needed.
Maybe rest Bruno and Greenwood vs Palace. Then rest Pogba and Matic vs Chelsea. Maybe change fullbacks too depending on injuries.
Martial and Rashford looked fresh so should play all games and be taken off if needed.
Think there were a few players who liked tired, but on another day, we win that and tiredness doesn't get mentioned. That being said, I do expect to see a couple of changes against Palace, especially given that we have the semi-final three days later.
No chance. Strongest team vs Chelsea, and that means both of those players play.