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Raoul

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$200 in a Gaza restaurant? Some open-air prison then.
In Turkey

“Hamas leaders [in Turkey] live in fancy hotels and luxury towers, their kids learn at private schools, and they are very well paid by Hamas. They get between four and five thousand dollars a month, they have guards, swimming pools, country clubs,” said Suheib, who worked for Hamas’s political branch in Turkey.

“When I lived in Turkey, I was shocked by the behavior of the Hamas members. They ate in the best restaurants, in places where one course cost $200,” he said. “A family in Gaza lives on $100 per month.”
 

Super Hans

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You can repurpose the words apartheid and genocide all you want. But if you're that sincere about war crimes, what, by your leading example, can we do about Syria, Yemen, China, Africa and all the other whatabouteries that are chopping heads off while somebody in Israel farts the wrong way?
https://www.hrw.org/report/2021/04/...orities-and-crimes-apartheid-and-persecution#
https://www.btselem.org/publications/fulltext/202101_this_is_apartheid
https://www.yesh-din.org/en/the-occ...ank-and-the-crime-of-apartheid-legal-opinion/
 

Super Hans

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I don’t know, it was you who referenced Morris in the first place. Which one were you referring to?
I found the quote I was paraphrasing.

"“In general, in most cases the final and decisive precipitant to flight was Haganah, IZL, LHI or IDF attack or the inhabitants’ fear of such attack.” Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem, 1988.
 

Fearless

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No interest in their narcissistic guff, but nice to see Israel has freedom of expression.
You'd impress me a damn sight more with any Palestinian Human Rights Groups moaning about their leaders policies, even Palestinian anger about Raoul's above posts re Hamas and $200 per course restaurants in Turkey.

Maybe they were eating Apartheid Steaks.
 

Raven

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In other words you can't be bothered or can't present any evidence that perfectly matches South Africa in any way.

Lets make this easier for you. Name just one thing that replicates apartheid.
This is like saying because my potato isn't the same shape and size as your potato, it's not a potato.
 

Super Hans

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No. Please present identical evidence to which the Black South African citizens suffered.
From the Human Rights Watch report, A Threshold Crossed:

"The international community has over the years detached the term apartheid from its original South African context, developed a universal legal prohibition against its practice, and recognized it as a crime against humanity with definitions provided in the 1973 International Convention on the Suppression and Punishment of the Crime of Apartheid (“Apartheid Convention”) and the 1998 Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court (ICC)."

So, why do you think that Israel doesn't meet the threshold for apartheid judged against these definitions?
 

Super Hans

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$200 in a Gaza restaurant? Some open-air prison then.
There were fine restaurants in the Warsaw ghetto too. The Nazis made moving pictures of these places to show the world how great the Jews in the ghetto had it.
 

2cents

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I found the quote I was paraphrasing.

"“In general, in most cases the final and decisive precipitant to flight was Haganah, IZL, LHI or IDF attack or the inhabitants’ fear of such attack.” Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem, 1988.
Thanks. It’s almost the exact same in Revisited:



(edit): you’ll notice it repeated also on p.53 of the 1991 chapter I linked to earlier.
 

Super Hans

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The rest of the points notwithstanding, and I generally come here to read, but this bolded part is Olympic level mental gymnastics.

Indian freedom struggle was based on non violence and civil disobedience. And Gandhi was more or less the ideologue behind it. He was so wedded to the idea that when a famous incident of violence happened at Chauri Chaura, he basically withdrew from the movement, went on a fast for penance and forced the people to adopt the way of non violent struggle.

It is in no way comparable to what Hamas is doing - nor is the inherent cynicism of their actions and spite that they hold applicable in Gandhi’s case. He firmly advocated for good relations with Great Britain once India was independent despite the history of atrocities of British rule. And all the folks going up against the baton charges of police were volunteers who knew what they were doing.

I could say more, but I will stop here.
You're completely missing the point. Presumably, you hadn't followed the discussion that came previously between myself and Raoul.
 

pav1790

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You're completely missing the point. Presumably, you hadn't followed the discussion that came previously between myself and Raoul.
You presume incorrectly, friend. My reply was specifically because of the context of the conversation.

I invite you, once again or for the first time depending on whether you read my post or not, to look at the principles of non-violence and civil disobedience, which were the basic tenets of Satyagraha. Hamas is nothing like Gandhi. To compare their facile similarity when forgetting the basic values that distinguish them is like saying you are me because both of us are humans.
 

UweBein

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At least your open to other ideas :lol:
Well, better than to have a rigid mind set, I am hoping.

Being open to apartheid, as many leading human rights watch dogs have described the situation in Israel, does not make you smart or nuanced it's just makes you a war crime apologist.
And many haven't.

And with regard to war crime apologist... another useless label ;):D

You say that this is how the world is when there's only a handful of past examples. The other thing is, those genocides have already happened, we can't bring back those exterminated by the Brits, Spanish, Dutch, etc. We can however prevent it happening again, although it seems pretty bleak given we have people like you making excuses at every turn.
Oh...stop it. A handful examples?
I would argue that this list is still not complete:
List_of_ethnic_cleansing_campaigns (but it shows that there are much more examples than you have on your radar.)
 

Foxbatt

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Let's be honest. He is now in an unknown Arab country.So he has been switched. As for this 200 dollar a course Turkish restaurant I would like to know the place too. I have been to more than a few Turkish restaurants but never seen one yet where it is 200 dollars a course. So curious about this.
That said all these guys scam the general public and live a high life. From Hamas to PLA to LTTE to all these groups.

Different topic but look at the leader of the communist party of the Philippines. He is living the life in Netherlands while his New Peoples Army kill innocent people back in the Philippines. A few days ago one of the most promising football players in the Philippines was blown up by a roadside bomb planted by the communists. He was just 21. He was cycling with his family when the communists blew an IED.
 

lefty_jakobz

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@UweBein

Your mates kill children
They imprison children and do God knows what to them in prison
You are maybe giving israel leniency due to what your country allowed to happen to them ironic as its whats happening in that country today yet most are too blind to see it as they laud this apartheid state as some bastian of democracy
 

UweBein

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Which leading human rights watchdogs haven't? The actual leading ones have, so interested to know which leading ones haven't.
Am I the leading expert on leading human rights watchdogs or is it you? Do your homework.
 

The Corinthian

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Am I the leading expert on leading human rights watchdogs or is it you? Do your homework.
:lol:

So you’re just chatting shite when saying leading human rights watchdogs have said it isn’t. Classic.
 

The Corinthian

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Am I the leading expert on leading human rights watchdogs or is it you? Do your homework.
Also you made the claim that leading humans rights haven’t. Surely you should back that up with some, you know, evidence.
 

Raoul

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Let's be honest. He is now in an unknown Arab country.So he has been switched. As for this 200 dollar a course Turkish restaurant I would like to know the place too. I have been to more than a few Turkish restaurants but never seen one yet where it is 200 dollars a course. So curious about this.
That said all these guys scam the general public and live a high life. From Hamas to PLA to LTTE to all these groups.

Different topic but look at the leader of the communist party of the Philippines. He is living the life in Netherlands while his New Peoples Army kill innocent people back in the Philippines. A few days ago one of the most promising football players in the Philippines was blown up by a roadside bomb planted by the communists. He was just 21. He was cycling with his family when the communists blew an IED.
Indeed. It would appear that most of these organizations have leaders who fleece supporters to create very comfortable lives for themselves and their families - all under the banner of worthy moral causes.
 

Fearless

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@UweBein

Your mates kill children
They imprison children and do God knows what to them in prison
You are maybe giving israel leniency due to what your country allowed to happen to them ironic as its whats happening in that country today yet most are too blind to see it as they laud this apartheid state as some bastian of democracy
How patronising - and I saw the earlier offensive post you quickly deleted about being German.

Israel is a bastion of democracy, and the current coalition government being formed (including Arabs) is unique in the region.
 

lefty_jakobz

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How patronising - and I saw the earlier offensive post you quickly deleted about being German.

Israel is a bastion of democracy, and the current coalition government being formed (including Arabs) is unique in the region.
I didnt delete shit! It was deleted and I stand by it.

israel is a racist apartheid racist state, who murders children and imprisons kids.
No amount of bullshit from your end will change that.
You must make a shit load of money every time israel starts its aggression against innocent people.
 

lefty_jakobz

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The Nazi's did indeed tart things up at Auschwitz to fool the Red Cross.

This however, is very real.

Here we go. Cant argue with any real evidence so ill post some video in the hope it will deflect from the fact that you support a racist apartheid state...wonder if you get paid per post?
 

Fearless

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Here we go. Cant argue with any real evidence so ill post some video in the hope it will deflect from the fact that you support a racist apartheid state...wonder if you get paid per post?
Again - calling Israel racist is like calling a refuge for battered women sexist because it won't allow in extremely aroused men.
 

lefty_jakobz

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Again - calling Israel racist is like calling a refuge for battered women sexist because it won't allow in extremely aroused men.
israel the same country who has one set of laws for Jews and another for the Palestinians? I think thats literally the definition of apartheid. Wonder whose house/land your family members stole when they resettled in the apartheid state
 

Fearless

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israel the same country who has one set of laws for Jews and another for the Palestinians? I think thats literally the definition of apartheid. Wonder whose house/land your family members stole when they resettled in the apartheid state
I think it was the Christ family given the excellent condition of the window frames.
 

The Corinthian

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Again - calling Israel racist is like calling a refuge for battered women sexist because it won't allow in extremely aroused men.
Or it’s like calling Israel racist because it’s ummm you know racist. Why don’t you try engaging rather than coming up with whataboutery and arse ended analogies.
 

lefty_jakobz

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Or it’s like calling Israel racist because it’s ummm you know racist. Why don’t you try engaging rather than coming up with whataboutery and arse ended analogies.
He doesnt get paid for engaging, he gets paid when people watch the videos he posts
 

lefty_jakobz

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Actually, it was owned by an Israeli Arab family if I recall. They got a good price too.
So it was a ‘Christ family’ first now its an Arab family?
Surprised you never posted a video, or do you not get paid for posting your own videos, just the israeli propaganda ones?
 

Raven

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Again - calling Israel racist is like calling a refuge for battered women sexist because it won't allow in extremely aroused men.
Pretty sure this is against the forum rules.

"Using rape or cancer references as an analogy is not acceptable."

Taken from the Rules Violations section of the site.
 

Raven

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Well, better than to have a rigid mind set, I am hoping.


And many haven't.

And with regard to war crime apologist... another useless label ;):D



Oh...stop it. A handful examples?
I would argue that this list is still not complete:
List_of_ethnic_cleansing_campaigns (but it shows that there are much more examples than you have on your radar.)
Yikes.

So because it's happened before, you support it now. I'll make sure to take your posts with the necessary sack of salt in future.