Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less

[RedTiger]

I know how you feel. My daughter turned 1 last Saturday and I’ve seen so many videos in the last two weeks of fathers holding their infant babies lifeless bodies. Imagine - I can’t even bring myself to post those ones.

Israel have killed over 3,000 kids in the last 3 weeks. It’s madness and wanton destruction. They have to be brought to heel by the US.

I just want to add the almost everyone keeps talking about the number of dead children but no one remembers the 1000s of maimed children who will never lead a normal physical life.

 

[The Corinthian]

‘Self defence’

 

[Idxomer]

I just want to add the almost everyone keeps talking about the number of dead children but no one remembers the 1000s of maimed children who will never lead a normal physical life.

It's not just that, even the ones who survive won't have anything to look forward to. That's the reason children and anything related to them are being targeted. The aim is to make Gaza inhabitable to its young population above anything else. It's terrorism and ethnic cleansing disguised as a war.

 

[The Corinthian]

I just want to add the almost everyone keeps talking about the number of dead children but no one remembers the 1000s of maimed children who will never lead a normal physical life.

And the 1,000s and 1,000s that will have PTSD, trauma and persisting mental health problems for the rest of their lives. It’s a horrible situation for them.

https://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2023/11/06/palestine-children-ptsd

 

[2mufc0]

I just want to add the almost everyone keeps talking about the number of dead children but no one remembers the 1000s of maimed children who will never lead a normal physical life.

Plus all the ones made orphans, some have had their entire family wiped out.

 

[calodo2003]

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[Pintu]

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[MacabbiUnited]

I wonder around this place every once in a while to try and see this war the way it is seen to outsiders, I try not to comment, certainly in the last few years, because sometimes words cannot describe what I feel when I read some of these comments.

I am an Israeli, and I will try to put to words how this war looks from our perspective. Anyone who wishes to have a dignified conversation is welcome to respond, others I will ignore.

October 7th was a shocking day to all of us. I do not know a single person in Israel who doesnt know someone who was murdered, kidnapped our wounded during these horrifying hours. Hours in which loads of terrorists swarmed the streets of Israel, shooting everyone in sight, with the obvious agenda of killing as much as possible. This happend after we spent the last 2 years since our last “war” with Hamas trying to better the living situation in Gaza, allowing more Gazan workers to enter Israel, to create the economic conditions that will make war the least beneficial outcome for Gaza. But on October 7th we were all showed that its not about money, its not about the economy, they simply want to kill us all, regardless of our age, sex, political view or military background.

That signaled that no matter how hard we try, as long as Hamas rules Gaza, war will always be the endgame for them. So we set out on a mission to destroy Hamas. As always, we rained dows tens of thousands of panslips, waited for 20 days with our full military invasion, in which days we continuously urged the people of northern Gaza to evecuate, with strict orders where they can evacuate to because their neighborhoods that houses Hamas inferstracture will become a battlefield. Did you think we want this? Do we want our soldiers to run around the most densly populated area in the world trying to fish out terrorists? This is the worst possible outcome for us, and one we have avoided ever since the disengagement plan in 2004.

But what is our alternative? Should we let Hamas continue its murderous ways from inside schools, hospitals and civilian neightberhoods? We took all the measures we could to try and create the conditions which will lead to the fewest civilian casualties, but those who willingly choose not to leave are knowingly placing themselves in a declared battlefield, and that is exactly what Hamas wants. As many civilian casualties as possible, so people who know nothing about this war from up close will judge it wrongly, and pressure us to not finish Hamas of.

I will probably persuade neither of you all, since you clearly all have a very strong opinion on these matter, but when you call for a ceasefire that will save the murderous Hamas, just look at who are your partners in that call. The terrorist group known as Hezbolla, the Iranian regime who kills its on people when they protest, the Houthies in Yemen who arent known for their peaceful ways. Do they all care about the palestinians? Or do they just want to save Hamas from anahilation?

I feel sorry and saddened about every civilian casualty in this war. This war stopped my life, froze my job and put myself and a lot of my loved ones at risk. But if I have to choose between ever allowing our enemies to perform another October 7th on us, or this war with the outcome of Hamas deprived of all of its abilities, I sadly choose war.

 

[stevoc]

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I'd be interested in knowing how many dead civilians these people think was proportional.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

But what is our alternative? Should we let Hamas continue its murderous ways from inside schools, hospitals and civilian neightberhoods? We took all the measures we could to try and create the conditions which will lead to the fewest civilian casualties, but those who willingly choose not to leave are knowingly placing themselves in a declared battlefield, and that is exactly what Hamas wants. As many civilian casualties as possible, so people who know nothing about this war from up close will judge it wrongly, and pressure us to not finish Hamas of.

Nobody on earth believes this anymore unless their soul requires them to.

 

[Denis79]

I wonder around this place every once in a while to try and see this war the way it is seen to outsiders, I try not to comment, certainly in the last few years, because sometimes words cannot describe what I feel when I read some of these comments.

I am an Israeli, and I will try to put to words how this war looks from our perspective. Anyone who wishes to have a dignified conversation is welcome to respond, others I will ignore.

October 7th was a shocking day to all of us. I do not know a single person in Israel who doesnt know someone who was murdered, kidnapped our wounded during these horrifying hours. Hours in which loads of terrorists swarmed the streets of Israel, shooting everyone in sight, with the obvious agenda of killing as much as possible. This happend after we spent the last 2 years since our last “war” with Hamas trying to better the living situation in Gaza, allowing more Gazan workers to enter Israel, to create the economic conditions that will make war the least beneficial outcome for Gaza. But on October 7th we were all showed that its not about money, its not about the economy, they simply want to kill us all, regardless of our age, sex, political view or military background.

That signaled that no matter how hard we try, as long as Hamas rules Gaza, war will always be the endgame for them. So we set out on a mission to destroy Hamas. As always, we rained dows tens of thousands of panslips, waited for 20 days with our full military invasion, in which days we continuously urged the people of northern Gaza to evecuate, with strict orders where they can evacuate to because their neighborhoods that houses Hamas inferstracture will become a battlefield. Did you think we want this? Do we want our soldiers to run around the most densly populated area in the world trying to fish out terrorists? This is the worst possible outcome for us, and one we have avoided ever since the disengagement plan in 2004.

But what is our alternative? Should we let Hamas continue its murderous ways from inside schools, hospitals and civilian neightberhoods? We took all the measures we could to try and create the conditions which will lead to the fewest civilian casualties, but those who willingly choose not to leave are knowingly placing themselves in a declared battlefield, and that is exactly what Hamas wants. As many civilian casualties as possible, so people who know nothing about this war from up close will judge it wrongly, and pressure us to not finish Hamas of.

I will probably persuade neither of you all, since you clearly all have a very strong opinion on these matter, but when you call for a ceasefire that will save the murderous Hamas, just look at who are your partners in that call. The terrorist group known as Hezbolla, the Iranian regime who kills its on people when they protest, the Houthies in Yemen who arent known for their peaceful ways. Do they all care about the palestinians? Or do they just want to save Hamas from anahilation?

I feel sorry and saddened about every civilian casualty in this war. This war stopped my life, froze my job and put myself and a lot of my loved ones at risk. But if I have to choose between ever allowing our enemies to perform another October 7th on us, or this war with the outcome of Hamas deprived of all of its abilities, I sadly choose war.

It's not a war, it's just revenge, it's genocide. When Israel are done slaughtering civilians just like Hamas did, they will haven given birth to a whole new generation of monsters like Hamas.

 

[Idxomer]

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Most of what they do is lie and kill innocent people, an evil organization.

 

[Raoul]

I wonder around this place every once in a while to try and see this war the way it is seen to outsiders, I try not to comment, certainly in the last few years, because sometimes words cannot describe what I feel when I read some of these comments.

I am an Israeli, and I will try to put to words how this war looks from our perspective. Anyone who wishes to have a dignified conversation is welcome to respond, others I will ignore.

October 7th was a shocking day to all of us. I do not know a single person in Israel who doesnt know someone who was murdered, kidnapped our wounded during these horrifying hours. Hours in which loads of terrorists swarmed the streets of Israel, shooting everyone in sight, with the obvious agenda of killing as much as possible. This happend after we spent the last 2 years since our last “war” with Hamas trying to better the living situation in Gaza, allowing more Gazan workers to enter Israel, to create the economic conditions that will make war the least beneficial outcome for Gaza. But on October 7th we were all showed that its not about money, its not about the economy, they simply want to kill us all, regardless of our age, sex, political view or military background.

That signaled that no matter how hard we try, as long as Hamas rules Gaza, war will always be the endgame for them. So we set out on a mission to destroy Hamas. As always, we rained dows tens of thousands of panslips, waited for 20 days with our full military invasion, in which days we continuously urged the people of northern Gaza to evecuate, with strict orders where they can evacuate to because their neighborhoods that houses Hamas inferstracture will become a battlefield. Did you think we want this? Do we want our soldiers to run around the most densly populated area in the world trying to fish out terrorists? This is the worst possible outcome for us, and one we have avoided ever since the disengagement plan in 2004.

But what is our alternative? Should we let Hamas continue its murderous ways from inside schools, hospitals and civilian neightberhoods? We took all the measures we could to try and create the conditions which will lead to the fewest civilian casualties, but those who willingly choose not to leave are knowingly placing themselves in a declared battlefield, and that is exactly what Hamas wants. As many civilian casualties as possible, so people who know nothing about this war from up close will judge it wrongly, and pressure us to not finish Hamas of.

I will probably persuade neither of you all, since you clearly all have a very strong opinion on these matter, but when you call for a ceasefire that will save the murderous Hamas, just look at who are your partners in that call. The terrorist group known as Hezbolla, the Iranian regime who kills its on people when they protest, the Houthies in Yemen who arent known for their peaceful ways. Do they all care about the palestinians? Or do they just want to save Hamas from anahilation?

I feel sorry and saddened about every civilian casualty in this war. This war stopped my life, froze my job and put myself and a lot of my loved ones at risk. But if I have to choose between ever allowing our enemies to perform another October 7th on us, or this war with the outcome of Hamas deprived of all of its abilities, I sadly choose war.

This seems to be the prevailing Israeli opinion- that Israel and Hamas can no longer co-exist, which has resulted in an existential struggle remove them.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

we spent the last 2 years since our last “war” with Hamas trying to better the living situation in Gaza, allowing more Gazan workers to enter Israel, to create the economic conditions that will make war the least beneficial outcome for Gaza. But on October 7th we were all showed that its not about money, its not about the economy, they simply want to kill us all, regardless of our age, sex, political view or military background.

I love the idea that there were lots of people who thought Israel-Palestine conflict was about money until October 6th 2023.

 

[4bars]

Israel could indeed facilitate a 2 state solution but Hamas doesn't want one. Your magic wand has a bit more work to do, unfortunately,

As much as many put effort on the narrative, Hamas is not Palestine and I can guarantee that Palestine would vote overwhelmingly in favour for the 1967. No magic wands. and Hamas, would lose any power and support with this solution.

By the way, who propose that magic "being the king of israel" was not me

 

[Raoul]

Israel could indeed facilitate a 2 state solution but Hamas doesn't want one. Your magic wand has a bit more work to do, unfortunately,

It’s not only that. They are one of two competing factions, neither of which can claim to support all Palestinians. Therefore the current conflict is ostensibly between Israel and a non-state actor paramilitary group.

 

[4bars]

What was the Ukrainian equivalent to Hamas again?

If russia would be occupying most of ukranian territory for 80 years and settling the rest and leaving a territory like gaza, you would have an ukranian Hamas. If you would have a coalition of europeans and the US fighting for palestine territory against Israel occupation, I would guarantee that Hamas atrocities would never been committed, I can guarantee you that also

 

[4bars]

I wonder around this place every once in a while to try and see this war the way it is seen to outsiders, I try not to comment, certainly in the last few years, because sometimes words cannot describe what I feel when I read some of these comments.

I am an Israeli, and I will try to put to words how this war looks from our perspective. Anyone who wishes to have a dignified conversation is welcome to respond, others I will ignore.

October 7th was a shocking day to all of us. I do not know a single person in Israel who doesnt know someone who was murdered, kidnapped our wounded during these horrifying hours. Hours in which loads of terrorists swarmed the streets of Israel, shooting everyone in sight, with the obvious agenda of killing as much as possible. This happend after we spent the last 2 years since our last “war” with Hamas trying to better the living situation in Gaza, allowing more Gazan workers to enter Israel, to create the economic conditions that will make war the least beneficial outcome for Gaza. But on October 7th we were all showed that its not about money, its not about the economy, they simply want to kill us all, regardless of our age, sex, political view or military background.

That signaled that no matter how hard we try, as long as Hamas rules Gaza, war will always be the endgame for them. So we set out on a mission to destroy Hamas. As always, we rained dows tens of thousands of panslips, waited for 20 days with our full military invasion, in which days we continuously urged the people of northern Gaza to evecuate, with strict orders where they can evacuate to because their neighborhoods that houses Hamas inferstracture will become a battlefield. Did you think we want this? Do we want our soldiers to run around the most densly populated area in the world trying to fish out terrorists? This is the worst possible outcome for us, and one we have avoided ever since the disengagement plan in 2004.

But what is our alternative? Should we let Hamas continue its murderous ways from inside schools, hospitals and civilian neightberhoods? We took all the measures we could to try and create the conditions which will lead to the fewest civilian casualties, but those who willingly choose not to leave are knowingly placing themselves in a declared battlefield, and that is exactly what Hamas wants. As many civilian casualties as possible, so people who know nothing about this war from up close will judge it wrongly, and pressure us to not finish Hamas of.

I will probably persuade neither of you all, since you clearly all have a very strong opinion on these matter, but when you call for a ceasefire that will save the murderous Hamas, just look at who are your partners in that call. The terrorist group known as Hezbolla, the Iranian regime who kills its on people when they protest, the Houthies in Yemen who arent known for their peaceful ways. Do they all care about the palestinians? Or do they just want to save Hamas from anahilation?

I feel sorry and saddened about every civilian casualty in this war. This war stopped my life, froze my job and put myself and a lot of my loved ones at risk. But if I have to choose between ever allowing our enemies to perform another October 7th on us, or this war with the outcome of Hamas deprived of all of its abilities, I sadly choose war.

You are asking for a dignified conversation and I will try my best.

- What do you think was happening in Gaza and in the West bank before october 7th?
- If you think that there is no alternative when hamas killed 1400 israelis so that warrants killing +10K civilians palestinians (4000 kids, 2000 women and counting). How many killings of Israeli civilians were warranted to be killed when +6000 civilian palestinians had been killed since 2008 - October 6th 2023 by the is, among them dozens of kids under 13, even 2 year old babies?
- What do you think the settlement palestinian sentiment is among the West Bank regarding the settlement issue? what do you think they feel with the constant assassinations, the constant displacements? what alternative they have?
- Had Israel EVER been interested in the 2 state solutions when they kept promoting and financing the illegal settlements?
- If we assume that Israel had never been interested on that but the opposite as it had been munching away existing Palestinian territory, what plans do you think that Israel had for Gaza?
- What plans Israel had for Palestine before October 7th when Netanyahu should a map of Israel without palestine?
- You are asking if Hamas cares about palestinians when they killed 1400 Israelis knowing the consequences. Do the Israeli government care of the Israelis killing palestinians knowing the consequences of creating more terrorists that caused the October 7th?
- If we equating the killings of Hamas, a terrorist group, to a far more superior civilian death toll by the israelian government, should we consider Israel a terrorist State?



And many other questions. But could you start answering this questions if you have the time? They are genuine questions because all the israelians that I talk they only see their side, because as much as I don't understand the position that you are in, the outsider have a broader perspective because it does not affect them personally. I am sure you are suffering much more than what I ever suffered in my life, don't get me wrong, but you are suffering much less than what the palestinians had been suffering now or prior October 7th. And this suffering had been caused by your government and who voted. Whatever you gave to gazans (work permits) is something that without what israel had been doing, they would never needed.

Hope I was dignified enough for you to respond

Thanks

 

[Pintu]

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[Ted Lasso]

Extreme nationalism...it's a terrifying irony..

Israel on Thursday swore in Benjamin Netanyahu as prime minister of the most right-wing and religiously conservative government in the country's history.

Netanyahu took the oath of office moments after Israel's parliament, or Knesset, passed a vote of confidence in his new government.

The coalition, made up of Jewish ultranationalist and religious parties, has already prompted an unprecedented uproar from Israeli society, including the country's defense establishment, businesses, LGBTQ community, secular Jews and others. The new government has promised to curb the power of the country's independent judiciary and expand illegal settlements in the occupied West Bank that will deepen the conflict with the Palestinians.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/...ost-right-wing-government-in-countrys-history

For anyone that has paid attention to Israeli politics over the decades it's hard to rationalize or be sympathetic to some of the points noted and being used to excuse or justify genocidal acts and categorical war crimes. I have to assume those speaking these points voted for Netanyahu and don't reflect the not insignificant number of Israelis and global Jewish population that were worried about this party coming into power much the same way in the US we were terrified of Trump's election and the white supremacy and nationalism to follow.

 

[Brown Toothpick]

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Well done

 

[MDFC Manager]

I just want to add the almost everyone keeps talking about the number of dead children but no one remembers the 1000s of maimed children who will never lead a normal physical life.

Or indeed there orphans whose mental health will never be the same again

 

[MDFC Manager]

I'd be interested in knowing how many dead civilians these people think was proportional.

I know that sounds bit strange but it's still a really brave statement from a European PM. Wonder when the bigger ones will come around.

 

[Amir]

It’s not only that. They are one of two competing factions, neither of which can claim to support all Palestinians. Therefore the current conflict is ostensibly between Israel and a non-state actor paramilitary group.

Unfortunately, this is exactly the situation Netanyahu wanted and helped create - have the Palestenians in two factions, so he'd have an excuse not to try and negotiate at all.

 

[RedDevilQuebecois]

It’s not only that. They are one of two competing factions, neither of which can claim to support all Palestinians. Therefore the current conflict is ostensibly between Israel and a non-state actor paramilitary group.

When was the last time or what is the most notorious case in which a nation is involved in a fight against an enemy that is part of such a fragmented society?

 

[berbatrick]

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I remember this from 2015 (that's why it has the ISIS stone). What's ironic is that Israel was not-so-secretly helping ISIS out in Syria, while (mostly) the US and (slightly) European NATO countries - the ones shown here stabbing Israel in the back - were bombing ISIS cities.

 

[Amir]

Extreme nationalism...it's a terrifying irony..



https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/...ost-right-wing-government-in-countrys-history

For anyone that has paid attention to Israeli politics over the decades it's hard to rationalize or be sympathetic to some of the points noted and being used to excuse or justify genocidal acts and categorical war crimes. I have to assume those speaking these points voted for Netanyahu and don't reflect the not insignificant number of Israelis and global Jewish population that were worried about this party coming into power much the same way in the US we were terrified of Trump's election and the white supremacy and nationalism to follow.

The war has massive support in Israel, and that includes a lot of people who and never will be Netanyahu voters and supporters.

 

[YouOnlyLiveTwice]

 

[Beachryan]

If russia would be occupying most of ukranian territory for 80 years and settling the rest and leaving a territory like gaza, you would have an ukranian Hamas. If you would have a coalition of europeans and the US fighting for palestine territory against Israel occupation, I would guarantee that Hamas atrocities would never been committed, I can guarantee you that also

So October 7th was justified in your opinion?

 

[Ted Lasso]

The war has massive support in Israel, and that includes a lot of people who and never will be Netanyahu voters and supporters.

In the US you would often get polls showing some sample of the population and the breakdown of those for and against war. Is there anything like that which you can reference?

Quick search on my end showing it's far less conclusive than you're claiming:

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/israeli-polls-regarding-peace-with-the-palestinians

This is not inclusive of how war is conducted by the way since that's the major point of contention to date for even some of the "pro war" folks..at least that I know or have seen comments from online

 

[That_Bloke]

The war has massive support in Israel, and that includes a lot of people who and never will be Netanyahu voters and supporters.

Good to see you still hanging around here. We need your opinion, your perspective and your knowledge about what's going on in Israel more than ever.

Hope you're safe.

 

[4bars]

So October 7th was justified in your opinion?

absolutely not. awful and all Hamas should suffer the consequences. Is Israel current attack on Gaza justified in your opinion?

 

[Beachryan]

absolutely not. awful and all Hamas should suffer the consequences. Is Israel current attack on Gaza justified in your opinion?

Not the magnitude and nature. That's the worst part of this, it's both unforgivable and predictable.

The problem is that Oct 7th means not going after Hamas is impossible. And going after a fully entrenched Hamas is impossible.

That's what kills me about this whole disaster: as bad as things were before this has made it orders of magnitude worse. And made any kind actual livable solution far less likely.

 

[Beachryan]

The war has massive support in Israel, and that includes a lot of people who and never will be Netanyahu voters and supporters.

Is that true? Goes against what I'd heard from various podcasts etc

 

[Beachryan]

Assuming the pressure finally works, we will hopefully get a ceasefire soon. At this point, I honestly have no idea what a path forward looks like. While it's obviously easy to debate the decision to stick Israel where it is - and there's plenty of evidence with hindsight about how bad an idea that clearly was - the reality of today is that there's nothing one can do to change that. Israel is a major power in the region on its own now, that is the kind of the baseline.

Now that Hamas has demonstrated its capability to inflict mass casualties on Israel, I simply do not see how Israel can deal with them in a peaceful manner. There is no negotiating with Hamas. Therefore, what do you do? I've yet to see a single sensible answer to that question. Is it on Israel to attempt to force region change in Gaza? How does that happen? Can the UN come in and force 'free and fair' elections? Maybe that's an option. What if Hamas win again?

There is simply no world with Hamas, now, where Israel can just 'leave it alone'. Quite obviously, before October 7th there was. The whole situation is now irreparably f*cked in my opinion.

And if that's the case - and again I'm pleading for a sensible, realistic alternative - how do you get a two-state solution without Hamas? Can the PA take over management of Gaza? Would Hamas let them?

 

[Traub]

Assuming the pressure finally works, we will hopefully get a ceasefire soon. At this point, I honestly have no idea what a path forward looks like. While it's obviously easy to debate the decision to stick Israel where it is - and there's plenty of evidence with hindsight about how bad an idea that clearly was - the reality of today is that there's nothing one can do to change that. Israel is a major power in the region on its own now, that is the kind of the baseline.

Now that Hamas has demonstrated its capability to inflict mass casualties on Israel, I simply do not see how Israel can deal with them in a peaceful manner. There is no negotiating with Hamas. Therefore, what do you do? I've yet to see a single sensible answer to that question. Is it on Israel to attempt to force region change in Gaza? How does that happen? Can the UN come in and force 'free and fair' elections? Maybe that's an option. What if Hamas win again?

There is simply no world with Hamas, now, where Israel can just 'leave it alone'. Quite obviously, before October 7th there was. The whole situation is now irreparably f*cked in my opinion.

And if that's the case - and again I'm pleading for a sensible, realistic alternative - how do you get a two-state solution without Hamas? Can the PA take over management of Gaza? Would Hamas let them?

I think this is ultimately the only way forward.

To be honest, the best case scenario for all parties is something like this:
1. Ceasefire
2. Release of hostages
3. Removal of Hamas
4. Israeli government reshuffle - Netenyahu leaving his post, right wing parties not having a say anymore, no judicial reforms
5. PA taking over Gaza and West Bank
6. Establishment of two/three state solution - Jerusalem will be a struggle and possibly a third independent state in East Jerusalem
7. Rebuilding of Gaza

Now the problem is 3 and 4 IMO. And then of course how do you manage, from Israel's perspective, the risk of the rise of a Hamas again considering that 6 would potentially result in a free for all in terms of Iran providing weapons to terrorist groups. Of all of the above, I'm hoping that 1, 2 and 4 are achievable in the short-term, I just don't know how 3 is possible without destroying Gaza.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

There is no negotiating with Hamas.

The U.S. and Israel are negotiating with Hamas right now.

 

[4bars]

Not the magnitude and nature. That's the worst part of this, it's both unforgivable and predictable.

The problem is that Oct 7th means not going after Hamas is impossible. And going after a fully entrenched Hamas is impossible.

That's what kills me about this whole disaster: as bad as things were before this has made it orders of magnitude worse. And made any kind actual livable solution far less likely.

Yes, but that is when great men and societies raise to the ocasion. Mandela and southafrica could had chosen very easily a dark path after appartheid. It lies certainly in the ones that have the power for the generous action, not the ones that have to accept it and have no choice. It was possible last year, 10 years ago and before and it was never done but everything always indicared that the opposite is was the only outcome that israel wanted if we check the settlement strategy, sooner or later, with or without excuse.

The west has a big degree of responsability to not only allow it but promoting it

As you said, now it looks further than ever, but even so it could be possible. Is always possible when there is a will, but that was never there in the first place.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

Israel has killed 10,000 people over the last months. They've killed journalists. They've killed UN workers. They've killed doctors and nurses. They've killed thousands of children. They've dropped bombs on schools. They've dropped bombs on hospitals. They've dropped bombs on churches. They've dropped bombs on bakeries. They've dropped bombs on universities. They are gleefully murdering civilians as an act of revenge.

And the question is, "how can you negotiate with Hamas."

One group's campaign of terror: unfathomable nihilism. Another group's campaign of terror: a whoopsie.

 

[calodo2003]

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