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the_cliff

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Well either Egypt are getting ready to shoot at Palestinians (which I highly doubt) or lock them into Palestine.

Or things are escalating between Egypt and Israel and things could reach a boiling point if Israel do decide to invade Rafah. From what I'm hearing in Eastern media this is the most likely situation.
 

The Corinthian

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the_cliff said:

Well either Egypt are getting ready to shoot at Palestinians (which I highly doubt) or lock them into Palestine.

Or things are escalating between Egypt and Israel and things could reach a boiling point if Israel do decide to invade Rafah. From what I'm hearing in Eastern media this is the most likely situation.
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Sisi is a cnut but Bibi is the ultimate cnut. He’s forcing Egypt to take the refugees giving Bibi a carte blanche to take all of Gaza and remove any right to return for the Gazan Palestinians. It’s annother Nakba.

And the worst thing is that decrepit wanker Biden is watching this all unfold and doing absolutely nothing.
 

Cloud7

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The Corinthian said:
Sisi is a cnut but Bibi is the ultimate cnut. He’s forcing Egypt to take the refugees giving Bibi a carte blanche to take all of Gaza and remove any right to return for the Gazan Palestinians. It’s annother Nakba.

And the worst thing is that decrepit wanker Biden is watching this all unfold and doing absolutely nothing.
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As heartbreaking and wrong as all of this is, I am starting to think that the only way the people of Palestine aren't all literally killed is if they go to another country. We all keep saying that surely at some point the US will tell Israel to stop, or they themselves will stop, but I think it's quite clear at this point that they are not going to. It is cruel and unfair, but in terms of what is actually happening I can't see how these people don't all die, and I don't just mean from the bombs, but the lack of food and water, infections, lack of medication (How are people on dialysis in Palestine even getting dialysis these days?) and all those other associated things around this, unless they go to another country.
 

the_cliff

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Cloud7 said:
As heartbreaking and wrong as all of this is, I am starting to think that the only way the people of Palestine aren't all literally killed is if they go to another country. We all keep saying that surely at some point the US will tell Israel to stop, or they themselves will stop, but I think it's quite clear at this point that they are not going to. It is cruel and unfair, but in terms of what is actually happening I can't see how these people don't all die, and I don't just mean from the bombs, but the lack of food and water, infections, lack of medication (How are people on dialysis in Palestine even getting dialysis these days?) and all those other associated things around this, unless they go to another country.
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I highly doubt that happens. They won't be allowed in any Arab country just for the fact that they know they'll never be allowed back in. If Israel attempt to do that it would turn the war into a regional war that Israel wouldn't win. (Unless the US comes along to save the day).

I reckon Bibi designates a safe zone somewhere other than Rafah that the Palestinians can go to, probably re opening somewhere else in Gaza for them to go to while they deal with the Rafah crossing. It's the only way they can get what they want and not drag in Egypt and Lebanon to the war.

I know it keeps getting mentioned here but no way does Egypt allow Palestinians in or Bibi to massacre them in Rafah.
 

Giggsy PO

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gfactor86 said:
75% of the land was granted to Jordan. Did the Jordanians steal the land from the Palestinians too?
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You mean those Jordanians who for 19 years occupied Judea and Samaria (West Bank) and did absolutelly nothing to create Palestianan state there?
 

africanspur

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gfactor86 said:
75% of the land was granted to Jordan. Did the Jordanians steal the land from the Palestinians too?
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Was there a mass migration of Jordanians from elsewhere and land purchases to kick the current inhabitants out?
 

africanspur

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the_cliff said:
I highly doubt that happens. They won't be allowed in any Arab country just for the fact that they know they'll never be allowed back in. If Israel attempt to do that it would turn the war into a regional war that Israel wouldn't win. (Unless the US comes along to save the day).

I reckon Bibi designates a safe zone somewhere other than Rafah that the Palestinians can go to, probably re opening somewhere else in Gaza for them to go to while they deal with the Rafah crossing. It's the only way they can get what they want and not drag in Egypt and Lebanon to the war.

I know it keeps getting mentioned here but no way does Egypt allow Palestinians in or Bibi to massacre them in Rafah.
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Egypt is Sisi now. Sisis only aims are to remain in power and steal as much money as possible.

He killed a thousand of his own countrymen in one day and has imprisoned and disappeared tens of thousands more.

If it came down to a choice between shooting Palestinians trying to flee and the consequences of dealing with that miss migration and conflict with Israel, which Egypt would lose badly, I don't have your confidence that he won't choose the first.

The Egyptian army is essentially a business enterprise now, more interested in building factories and residential blocks that lay empty one desert highways than it is in defending Egyptian national interests.
 

Giggsyking

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the_cliff said:

Well either Egypt are getting ready to shoot at Palestinians (which I highly doubt) or lock them into Palestine.

Or things are escalating between Egypt and Israel and things could reach a boiling point if Israel do decide to invade Rafah. From what I'm hearing in Eastern media this is the most likely situation.
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Mexico president playing a dangerous game.
 

africanspur

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Roane said:
Even ISIS declared borders.

Interesting documents doing their rounds on social media. Actual documents with thumb prints and signatures of Jewish refugees given citizenship in the Palestine (that apparently didn't exist) stating:

"I swear to be loyal to the government in Palestine"

There is even one of Shimon Perez declaring this on a visa application
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Can we stop with this kind of nonsense? When you say ISIS declared its borders, do you mean that map where they coloured in black every single area of the globe where Muslims had ever ruled, including the whole of the Iberian peninsula and much of the Balkans.

We can continue to call out the war crimes, barbarity and yes even genocide now without these stupid attempts to compare to ISIS or the Nazis.
 

africanspur

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Giggsy PO said:
You mean those Jordanians who for 19 years occupied Judea and Samaria (West Bank) and did absolutelly nothing to create Palestianan state there?
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Let's play this game.

Jordan annexed Judea and Samaria (wink wink nudge nudge), no doubt about it.

The rest of the Arabs were almost uniformly furious and tried to kick the Jordanians out of the Arab League. They came to a quasi agreement that the Jordanians were providing trusteeship over the land until the Palestinian issue was resolved, though Jordan generally continued to act as if this wasn't the case.

Still, Jordan gave the Palestinians there full Jordanian citizenship, the same rights as citizens living in what is now Jordan and half the seats in parliament.

Now of course, Israel being so much more civilised than the Arabs generally, have a much better approach to this right? Must have offered some good perks, including citizenship?

Do you mind just running me through a quick bullet point list of your and/or Israel's plan to deal with the Arab occupants of this Jewish land?

Thanks a lot.
 

gfactor86

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Giggsy PO said:
You mean those Jordanians who for 19 years occupied Judea and Samaria (West Bank) and did absolutelly nothing to create Palestianan state there?
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yes them! Tens of thousands of Palestinians still languishing in refugee camps for decades without citizenship or rights
 

Idxomer

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Is there a limit to the depravity of this entity and its supporters?
 

the_cliff

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africanspur said:
Egypt is Sisi now. Sisis only aims are to remain in power and steal as much money as possible.

He killed a thousand of his own countrymen in one day and has imprisoned and disappeared tens of thousands more.

If it came down to a choice between shooting Palestinians trying to flee and the consequences of dealing with that miss migration and conflict with Israel, which Egypt would lose badly, I don't have your confidence that he won't choose the first.

The Egyptian army is essentially a business enterprise now, more interested in building factories and residential blocks that lay empty one desert highways than it is in defending Egyptian national interests.
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Egypt is not Sisi. It's a very big and common misconception about Egypt. Egypt, like Pakistan and Algeria is first and foremost a military state, the people with the actual and most power are the generals in the army. What Sisi wants or doesn't want is irrelevant and there's been plenty of reports in Arab media that he's been losing power and favour with the other generals. I guess we'll find out but there's definitely something happening soon in the border. With Egypt moving military equipment there, Blinken in Egypt 2 days ago and the director of the CIA going sometime this coming week and Israel practically announcing a ground offensive.

I'd say it's highly likely that the US will find a common ground with Egypt and Israel but I doubt Egypt accept Palestinian refugees or massacres at their borders. Both would most likely end up destabilising the country worse than 2011.
 

VorZakone

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In Private Remarks to Arab Americans, Biden Aide Expresses Regrets on Gaza

In a closed-door meeting with Arab American leaders in Michigan this week, one of President Biden’s top foreign policy aides acknowledged mistakes in the administration’s response to the war in Gaza, saying he did not have “any confidence” that Israel’s government was willing to take “meaningful steps” toward Palestinian statehood.

Mr. Finer added: “We have left a very damaging impression based on what has been a wholly inadequate public accounting for how much the president, the administration and the country values the lives of Palestinians. And that began, frankly, pretty early in the conflict.”
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https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/09/us/politics/biden-aide-israel-regret.html
 

Idxomer

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The family of doctor Muhammad Abu Salmiya said that he is being severely tortured because he refused to appear in a video accusing the resistance of using Al Shifa Hospital as a military site. Another doctor, who was kidnapped with Abu Salmiya, stated that the latter was forced to walk on all fours and eat from a bowl on the floor like an animal and even they put a leash on him. He added that Israeli soldiers broke both his arms.
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Ekkie Thump

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gfactor86 said:
UNRWA runs 10x Palestinian refugee camps in Jordan. Many have been there for years and treated as 2nd class citizens. What's funny about that?
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The result of ethnic cleansing. A crime against humanity. Maybe Israel should grant them the right of return?
 

Frosty

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Sky1981 said:
Not sure if this is some sort of behind closed door meeting when NYT can get direct quotes.
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I think that's precisely the point. Leak the news so it shows you do care about the Palestinian state, but make sure it is done by an advisor far enough away from the Oval Office so that you don't need to change anything in terms of policy or even rhetoric.
 

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Idxomer said:

Is there a limit to the depravity of this entity and its supporters?
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Such a sad story and plenty others like it that we haven't heard about.

Evil cnuts.
 

Redplane

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Any sources for news about this these days that I can reasonably assume just report the facts on this conflict (and yes aI know that is difficult to get 100% correct)? The propaganda/spin on some of this seems to make Russia/Ukraine seem like child's play.
 
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