Put some examples of the lies about the IDF? You have a video above about an execution of a surrendering elderly man on camera, this video is leaked after obtaining the camera, one wonder how many of those 30,000 killed in the same way?My memory can't handle the amount of lies and BS in this thread.
I've stopped posting here because while there's so much that is correctly written against Israel and the IDF, there's also so much disinformation. No, there were no beheaded babies on October 7 as far as I know. But women were sexually assaulted. Those doing their best to deny that are disgusting. This just goes too far.
Israel is refusing to cooperate with the investigation, isnt that telling?Fine, investigate.
Not really. It's become more of a (stupid) principal thing not to cooperate.Israel is refusing to cooperate with the investigation, isnt that telling?
The port seems like a longer term project. The only thing that will work in the present is a ceasefire that both sides agree to, involving concessions that both sides want.The Gaza port will take up to 60 days for completion. I don't see how that's anything but part of the Biden propaganda announcing it right now. It definitely won't help Palestinians who are currently starving and dying every day because of malnutrition.
How are you judging who is more evil out of Israel and Hamas? What measures?Not really. It's become more of a (stupid) principal thing not to cooperate.
At the same time, I'd say Israel is a piece of shit with quite a bit of evil in it. Hamas is a piece of shit with tons of evil in it - it's just a shame people are full of hatered towards Israel they try to clear Hamas of its crimes.
I don't see how they will reach these concessions.The port seems like a longer term project. The only thing that will work in the present is a ceasefire that both sides agree to, involving concessions that both sides want.
I'm measuring it through one being a terrorist organization with clear intentions - killing Israelis and destroying Israel - and the other being a country with nine million inhabitants, most of whom are peaceful people who just want to get on with their lives.How are you judging who is more evil out of Israel and Hamas? What measures?
After five months, I'm so done with that game.Put some examples of the lies about the IDF? You have a video above about an execution of a surrendering elderly man on camera, this video is leaked after obtaining the camera, one wonder how many of those 30,000 killed in the same way?
Of course.The port seems like a longer term project. The only thing that will work in the present is a ceasefire that both sides agree to, involving concessions that both sides want.
It's the first of many projects FOR Israel when they take over the whole land.Of course.
As if Israel would let Gaza have any port or airport, or the US carries out something that would directly go against Israel's wishes. Having a port (not controlled by Israel) would undermine the blockade of the Strip.
If the port is indeed long-term project, it involves the Gaza gas field about 20 miles off the coast.
As much as I respect your opinion, you really can't do this kind of math. Not anymore.I'm measuring it through one being a terrorist organization with clear intentions - killing Israelis and destroying Israel - and the other being a country with nine million inhabitants, most of whom are peaceful people who just want to get on with their lives.
Now, if I compare Gaza (including its citizens) to Israel, that's a different matter.
a country with nine million inhabitants, most of whom are peaceful people who just want to get on with their lives.
Rightly or wrongly, Israelis have been heavily burned by the terrorists attacks following the Oslo accords and then the second intifada. It turned most of them off the idea of a two state solution and made them look for security before anything else when voting. It also made it easier for the right to play on their fears when going to vote. Unfortunately, pessimism towards the Palestenians was probably proven right more times than wrong since the mid-nineties.As much as I respect your opinion, you really can't do this kind of math. Not anymore.
I'm not absolving Hamas of their crimes and think that it will never acknowledge Israel as a state. But Israelis want to get on with their lives whilst willfully voting for decades for a government that's been actively seeking to extend the settlements and openly stated that it had no interest in a two state solution. They're also perfectly okay with the appalling Apartheid situation in the West Bank. The Israelis in their majority don't want a Palestinian State and that was way before 10/7. How do you think it was going to end? From a personal experience you remind me of good willed people living on the sunny side of an under utterly unjust system and ask the heavens when the sky suddenly falls on their heads.
Not a dig at you, I've read enough of your posts to know where you stand, but I'm sorry, Israel can't have its cake and eat it.
I've no idea when this poll was done and who performed it, but look at my answer above.
I fully understand that.Rightly or wrongly, Israelis have been heavily burned by the terrorists attacks following the Oslo accords and then the second intifada. It turned most of them off the idea of a two state solution and made them look for security before anything else when voting. It also made it easier for the right to play on their fears when going to vote. Unfortunately, pessimism towards the Palestenians was probably proven right more times than wrong since the mid-nineties.
It's easy to blame Israelis for their vote, but their reasoning needs to be looked at as well.
Are there any cases of a people not being peaceful? Every people on earth fundamentally want to live peacefully. When a people are fine with a 'peace' for them that necessitates the extent of subjugation and killing we have seen, then you must accept there is a serious radicalisation problem across Israeli society.I'm measuring it through one being a terrorist organization with clear intentions - killing Israelis and destroying Israel - and the other being a country with nine million inhabitants, most of whom are peaceful people who just want to get on with their lives.
Now, if I compare Gaza (including its citizens) to Israel, that's a different matter.
On that, I recall a discussion with an Israeli historian, someone with a public profile in Israel who would describe himself as a proud Zionist and who was a bit of a mentor to me - he remarked quite seriously (although that is his default manner) that the Byzantines had the right idea using the Temple Mount as a rubbish dump and that the only sure solution to the problem of Jerusalem is to bulldoze the Old City in its entirety and use it as a car park or something.Ariel Sharon thought it was funny to take a walk to the Temple Mount about two months after the failed Camp David negotiations
Apparently he was deaf, just to top off the depravity that much more.Put some examples of the lies about the IDF? You have a video above about an execution of a surrendering elderly man on camera, this video is leaked after obtaining the camera, one wonder how many of those 30,000 killed in the same way?
wait,
Why wonder
IDF killed their own hostages despite them waving white flags and surrendering.
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Peaceful? The overwhelming majority of Israelis back the actions of the IDF's actions and a substantial portion of the country (approaching one third) are saying they aren't going far enough. That isn't telling me they're tired and want to get on with their lives...I'm measuring it through one being a terrorist organization with clear intentions - killing Israelis and destroying Israel - and the other being a country with nine million inhabitants, most of whom are peaceful people who just want to get on with their lives.
Now, if I compare Gaza (including its citizens) to Israel, that's a different matter.
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A sweeping generalisation.It's a deeply depraved society, and I'm sorry if that offends.
another generalisation.Won't be much of an IDF left if they extended the policy to the whole army.
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/30/up-to-six-stabbed-at-gay-pride-march-in-jerusalemA sweeping generalisation.
it's a secular, democratic and cosmopolitan society where women have the exact same rights as men and gay people can live their lives in the knowledge that they won't be thrown off a building for their sexual preferences.
it's easy to look at it and think it's outragous when you didn't live through October 7.Peaceful? The overwhelming majority of Israelis back the actions of the IDF's actions and a substantial portion of the country (approaching one third) are saying they aren't going far enough. That isn't telling me they're tired and want to get on with their lives...
Thanks for searching high and low and finding an article from 9 years ago to support whatever point you're trying to make. Well done you.https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/30/up-to-six-stabbed-at-gay-pride-march-in-jerusalem
Man stabs people at gay pride march in Jerusalem for second time
Six revellers attacked by Yishai Schlissel, recently released from prison after serving 10 years for stabbing three people at gay pride parade in 2005
Also read up on Israel pinkwashing - loads of stuff to read.
As long as they are jews. If not the rights are different. Also is a society profoundly ethnoracist and full of genocide abiding people with not a care in the world that kids dies of starvation...in the millions. And is a generalization, but a correct one with statistical numbers on handA sweeping generalisation.
it's a secular, democratic and cosmopolitan society where women have the exact same rights as men and gay people can live their lives in the knowledge that they won't be thrown off a building for their sexual preferences.
It's easy to think 7 August is outrageous when you don't live as a Palestinian.it's easy to look at it and think it's outragous when you didn't live through October 7.
Peaceful people getting on with their lives includes not having Hamas just across the border, always threatning with more rockets and terrorist attacks.
As for the poll, I agree it looks bad, but the headline didn't mention what appears inside the article: A survey for Israel's Channel 12 television at the end of January suggested 72 percent of Israelis believed Gaza should not receive any aid while hostages are still being held.
You can say it shouldn't be a factor at all, of course, but there are more layers to this.
A sweeping generalisation.
it's a secular, democratic and cosmopolitan society where women have the exact same rights as men and gay people can live their lives in the knowledge that they won't be thrown off a building for their sexual preferences.
Yes, I know. You were posting here months ago about how you didn't feel bad that Palestinian children would be bombed, as long as it guaranteed your safety and the safety of IDF soldiers.Peaceful people getting on with their lives includes not having Hamas just across the border, always threatning with more rockets and terrorist attacks.
I would nuke it (after evacuating the inhabitants), if it were in my hands. Then build there a nuclear power plant based on Chernobyl's.On that, I recall a discussion with an Israeli historian, someone with a public profile in Israel who would describe himself as a proud Zionist and who was a bit of a mentor to me - he remarked quite seriously (although that is his default manner) that the Byzantines had the right idea using the Temple Mount as a rubbish dump and that the only sure solution to the problem of Jerusalem is to bulldoze the Old City in its entirety and use it as a car park or something.
It might not be what someone not living in the region understands. But I guess there's a difference between actually being here to living elsewhere and thinking you can lecture others about what is happening here.Yes, I know. You were posting here months ago about how you didn't feel bad that Palestinian children would be bombed, as long as it guaranteed your safety and the safety of IDF soldiers.
This is just a manipulation of language and not what anyone actually understands as 'peaceful' and 'wanting to get on.'
With respect Amir, is the point not that basically any people on the planet are 'peaceful' as long as it's on their terms?It might not be what someone not living in the region understands. But I guess there's a difference between actually being here to living elsewhere and thinking you can lecture others about what is happening here.
Yeah, I don't know how it moved to be about a comparison between the average citizen and Hamas. It was obvious that the poster meant the government/illegal settlers/the IDF who are all no better than Hamas in either their actions or goals.Beyond that point about peace, the terms of this recent discussion are a bit strange. You can't define Israel as the people who live there and then compare them to Hamas (a military/political organization) as they are not the same thing. You would have to compare Israel to Palestine. You can compare Israel to Hamas if you are defining Israel as the state and its political/military goals.
The latter is what people are usually talking about, regardless of any issues that may be present in Israeli society.
Disgusting. Calling a bunch of genocide supporters "peaceful people" is utterly abhorrent. It would be like me coming in here calling the average Nazi peaceful. It's preposterous.it's easy to look at it and think it's outragous when you didn't live through October 7.
Peaceful people getting on with their lives includes not having Hamas just across the border, always threatning with more rockets and terrorist attacks.
As for the poll, I agree it looks bad, but the headline didn't mention what appears inside the article: A survey for Israel's Channel 12 television at the end of January suggested 72 percent of Israelis believed Gaza should not receive any aid while hostages are still being held.
You can say it shouldn't be a factor at all, of course, but there are more layers to this.