Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less
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Thieving cnuts.
The more it goes, the more I hate Biden. He was a demented old man and I know he is from the establishment and is aligned with the geopolitics theatre. If he would just shut up, at least is what he would look like. But this tweets and the media saying that is very mad at netanyahu for the situation in gaza and blah blah....While approving military aid, blocking UN resolutions, etc its beyonf disgusting. Is a piece of shit
You mean like...Nakba? or modern life west bank?
Shame on you talking about displacement, killing and rape when e see what is happening to 2 million people
Because is not a turning point. Is the same Biden whitewash narrative that US is very mad at Israel while fully supporting them
It doesn't imply, it's stated in the report "The mission wasn't investigative". They can also have all the abilities but what's their use when Israel puts huge obstacles for them to work and they are mostly dependent on what is presented to them? They don't have much if any power inside Israel, as the report indicates.
I think the report itself isn't a problem and it debunks several fabrications used and made by the likes of the NYT. However IMO, they should have cast more doubt over their inclusions.
The bigger problem is it's used -despite her having to state she's against that- as a justification to continue the violence and how the media mostly ignore the findings about sexual violence toward Palestinians which has now been mentioned in two different UN reports.
What a car crash of a tweet.
Small correction, Hamas in the way Western media understand doesn't have much to do with the death numbers. It's the Health Ministry that announces the numbers, these are doctors. It is exactly why it's an underestimate and probably why someone like Austin announced a higher number. I believe they need to see a body to consider that person dead. As said before, all those people missing under the rubble -some of them for months now which means they're dead- aren't counted. They are more meticulous in their counting than people think.
Only an absolute gobshite would look at what's been done to Gaza and think that they're having a whale of a time in markets full of wonderful goodies and that they're exaggerating the number of people killed.
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In this poll, only 14% of Biden voters say he should NOT stop arm shipments to Israel.
I don't trust a word either says. Thing is I held Israel to a different standard because they were supposed to be democracy that believed and abided by international rules. Hamas were murderous terrorists with no regard to rules or human life. But guess what? Israel are exactly like Hamas, murderous terrorists with zero decency and regard to life, which they have clearly shown.
The big difference is that they have weapons that can kill tens of thousands and completely level cities (as we have seen). I in no way stand or defend Hamas, they are murderous scum but Israel is no better and should be frowned upon and shunned exactly like other terrorist states have been in the past.
Mostly because their motives are obvious. Their viewpoint is obvious. People may disagree with them for that but they do not hide their perspective and viewpoint.
So yeah, what was your motive for posting that tweet? Do you believe that Gazans are flourishing in bustling markets right now?
Because the IDF and the Israeli government are known, habitual liars.
It's not a different standard, it's just cynicism at the constant dishonesty. 40 beheaded babies, keepy uppies with a severed breast etc etc.
Also the IDF agree with the 30k figures so yeah, not sure what that is about.
IDF shoot their own hostages, claims they didn't, footage is released, it's clear they did, they keep lying.
It said "the mission was not investigative" but I don't think that means what you or the twitter account you quoted think it means. What it means in the context of this report is that the enquiry was too narrow to deserve the moniker "investigation" and didn't extend to apportioning blame. This does not mean that it did not investigate the evidence within its remit or use investigative techniques in its analysis. It did - hence employing the people it employed; describing the methods they used, the evidence they evaluated and the conclusions they reached. They visited the sites; interviewed witnesses; reviewed video, photographic and audio sources; evaluated their veracity and caveated their conclusions. They were also candid as to where the preponderance of the evidence came from and noted as follows:It doesn't imply, it's stated in the report "The mission wasn't investigative". They can also have all the abilities but what's their use when Israel puts huge obstacles for them to work and they are mostly dependent on what is presented to them? They don't have much if any power inside Israel, as the report indicates.
I think the report itself isn't a problem and it debunks several fabrications used and made by the likes of the NYT. However IMO, they should have cast more doubt over their inclusions.
The bigger problem is it's used -despite her having to state she's against that- as a justification to continue the violence and how the media mostly ignore the findings about sexual violence toward Palestinians which has now been mentioned in two different UN reports.
Report said:
As well as the specific caveats listed above the opening summary goes to great lengths to describe the limitations of the evidence (paragraphs 7 through 11). A further 11 paragraphs, in its own titled subsection, are devoted to these limitations in greater details (Pages 12-15). In what way should they have cast more doubt over their conclusions? It was they who recognised the limitations, they who evaluated the available evidence and they who analysed it as experts. If you're happy with their skills and tools when they use them to exclude evidence (e.g. your quoted para 64), but unhappy when they use those self same tools to include it then I feel like the problem is not so much with the evidence or their ability but with your partiality.On a different note I believe the report mentions that although beyond its remit information gathered by the unit regarding Palestinian accusations of sexual violence perpetrated by Israelis will be pooled alongside information gathered via other UN institutions and make its way into a separate report. I'm hopeful the UN will shine a light on that too once it is published. I get that this report might be used as propaganda, but if the team thinks that sexual violence and rape happened it is duty bound to report that and the best way of combatting that propaganda is to disseminate the report itself and advertise its actual findings.
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Thanks for the correction and further explanation
Amen
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So this is the extremism Sunak was going on about.
https://thehill.com/homenews/campai...ting-in-gaza-youve-got-to-finish-the-problem/
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@Ekkie Thump Debunking isn't as difficult as proving something. That bit from the report isn't just about excluding evidence but also the credibility of the witnesses. And again I'm not saying these things haven't happened. I believe all those allegations including the ones toward Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza need to be fully investigated without any restriction on the teams. Something the Israelis will never agree to in my view. That report being used for propaganda isn't a possibility, it's a fact.
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I haven't read the UN thing but there's no real reason to doubt that Israeli women were raped on Oct 7. We have a statement from Hamas themselves, basically saying "shit happened":
Hamas' main goal was eliminating security forces and gaining hostages. Adding mass rape to the schedule, knowing that kind of firepower that's going to arrive in a few minutes/hours, would not make sense.
And, the lack of widespread forensic or eyewitness evidence of systematic/mass rapes. The more lurid stories (some of which the NYT relied on) don't seem to be true.
e - It seems there was a lot of variation in how the civilians they encountered were treated - murdered in front of their kids, or had a random political discussion, and this might be happening with the hostages too - testimonies from many of those who came out in November didn't point to cruel treatment, but they heard worse from those still inside. I'm guessing there's a lot of factors - different factions (it's not just Hamas that's fighting or keeping hostages), breakdown of discipline (which might have happened a little as Oct 7 dragged on, and is probably happening now), and the role of Gazan civilians (who broke through the fence later on Oct 7, without the same discipline or objectives as the militants.)
The NYT story claimed it was basically a systematic thing, which is less believable for a few reasons:
Hamas' main goal was eliminating security forces and gaining hostages. Adding mass rape to the schedule, knowing that kind of firepower that's going to arrive in a few minutes/hours, would not make sense.
And, the lack of widespread forensic or eyewitness evidence of systematic/mass rapes. The more lurid stories (some of which the NYT relied on) don't seem to be true.
e - It seems there was a lot of variation in how the civilians they encountered were treated - murdered in front of their kids, or had a random political discussion, and this might be happening with the hostages too - testimonies from many of those who came out in November didn't point to cruel treatment, but they heard worse from those still inside. I'm guessing there's a lot of factors - different factions (it's not just Hamas that's fighting or keeping hostages), breakdown of discipline (which might have happened a little as Oct 7 dragged on, and is probably happening now), and the role of Gazan civilians (who broke through the fence later on Oct 7, without the same discipline or objectives as the militants.)
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Imagine if Israel hadn't spent so much of its budget on defensive technology like the Iron Dome? Israel would be a pile of rubble after years of bombardment from Hezbollah and Hamas. Hamas didn't see the need to invest any of it's aid money into bomb shelters to protect civilians.
But...now Gaza is a pile of rubble.
To me.
To you.
No it isn't. It's a flourishing strip with bustling markets filled with safe Palestinians, who haven't died by the tens of thousands.
Right @gfactor86
Canada is resuming funding to UNRWA.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-government-resume-unrwa-funding-1.7134961
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-government-resume-unrwa-funding-1.7134961
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Bernard Henri Levy, the Bill Maher of France
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Good article.
Sure, but that's precisely why the team was careful to attribute different levels of certainty to different incidents - in line with universally agreed upon UN guidance on the subject. The report generally and explicitly chose an operating standard of "reasonable grounds to believe." When an incident didn't meet this standard the report was careful to say so and at no point did the team find something to be "proven" or "beyond reasonable doubt". The furthest support they were willing to give to a single incident was "clear and convincing". It's all there in the methodology:
As far as I can see the team was genuinely transparent in its methods, careful in its approach and always tentative in its conclusions. It was a serious professional effort that deserves to be taken seriously - not dismissed as a "report" that "buried" and "finally admitted".methodology said:
Speaking of Palestinian accusations needing to be investigated, this article was in The Guardian yesterday. It's only an internal report, but I think it relates to one of a number of similar inquiries that are ongoing:
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Respect to Ireland and Northern Ireland
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