That is why I doubt it is widespread. During the baseball and cycling scandals dudes were writing books dropping names like every month.
It's time we talked about doping in football
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) was joined by comedian Ali Woods to look back at the best and worst moments of a rollercoaster season with the annual United Hour Awards.
Has Ten Hag been sacked yet? We're not sure and we hope not, but it's looking more likely as the days pass.
Who should replace him and why is it taking so long to make a decision?
I’ve played at a decent level and met many semi-pros, ex-pros and current pros (one in particular an ex-top level star now playing in the SPL). Steroid use 100% is far and wide in the UK. I suspect it’s 1000 times worse in lesser scrutinised countries in Eastern Europe and continents like Africa.
But the quote with Desailly is correct. Clubs will never engage in a doping policy. It’s too risky. Instead, a blind eye is turned to the potential their players are on something. It keeps the clubs in a position to distance themselves in an investigation and continue to compete. Not to mention all the legal ramifications.
Individuals however, well they are free to more or less do what they want. In the lower leagues, you’d be shocked if an official came to do a test more than once a year - and that’s only on one player. Urine samples are the norm - these are easily circumvented.
To say that it is the reason that teams (like Leicester) are successful is untrue, but does it play a part? Absolutely.
One thing that is shocking is a lot of players don’t “know” what they are given; especially by doctors. The Guardiola piece about sending his players away to his special doctor - I’m inclined to believe at least some of the players didn’t know anything about medicine and recovery. The players aren’t that educated in this field (or at least they weren’t) and while ignorance isn’t an excuse, some may truly believe they have just being given “vitamins”.
It’s almost certainly rampant nowadays with how easy it is to get a hold of and ways to get around testing continue to improve - the classic cat and mouse. The issue is that it’s in everyone’s best interests to keep a lid on it. Everyone loses out (player, club, FA) if players start getting exposed left, right and centre.
I’m pretty sure the Dutch contingent in your post were caught because of the national team doctor supplying “supplements” aka Deca. An ex-Premier League Welsh international “disappeared” for well over a season with an “injury” - while this may be true, I know for a fact he was good friends with players connected to doing this sort of thing. Abel Xavier got caught doing Deca as well.
Players all over Italy and Germany got called out. Jens Lehmann has come out in the past and said his teammates (not Arsenal) were doping. Early 00’s players like Blasi, Couto, Guardiola... I can’t imagine what it’s like in places like Russia.
The rise in heart palpitations and problems is a massive concern and it all points to one issue. Players like one of our ex-strikers, or a previous world class midfielder falling off a cliff - when you start to understand how these drugs work, you know that taking other drugs for “vanity” reasons can limit the effect on them. Of course performance starts to suffer inconceivably over a short period of time. Burnout is a real thing and a possibility but there’s always that nagging thought in the back of your head - that these players are on the same trajectory that many others who aren’t in sports but do take these drugs are on.
Post Fergie we look like we've been on weed, never mind HGH etc.What if turns out we've been doping too?
And I mean Post-Fergie not the 90s
Unless Woody finds a lab for a partner, I don't think he budgets for that, hence why we always look tired after less than 30 mins.
If they are on the PEDS then how are they bypassing the random drug tests?
Didn't Wenger once talked about suspicious results from tests of incoming players from abroad? (Not that the English are innocent)
It made me wonder why some of our footballers look less 'energetic' the longer they're here with us. Different diet and possibly cheap ass doping products from us..
It made me wonder why some of our footballers look less 'energetic' the longer they're here with us. Different diet and possibly cheap ass doping products from us..
I think you'd have to be very naive to believe that.
There's been plenty of leaks that would suggest the contrary to what you're suggesting
https://www.the42.ie/carlos-tevez-d...ian-hackers-fancy-bears-leak-3559013-Aug2017/
https://www.skysports.com/football/...e-wenger-voices-fears-over-doping-in-football
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/o...g-scandal-as-Operation-Puerto-resurfaces.html
Yeah, I agree. Like all sport, of course it is.
But the OP almost makes it sound like it’s solely those teams, almost as some conspiracy. Which I think we both know is bullshit.
This is one of those things like “of course FiFA arent taking bungs, its all political”
Qatar and Russia world cups? 100% legit process.
Qatar and Russia world cups? 100% legit process.
Then McDonald’s for main and KFC for pudding.
Most players won't and don't get tested for years - and you don't take drugs for years at a time either (if you're smart). Some drugs are next to impossible to detect in certain methods, such as Growth (describe in the OP with Graham Hunter talking about Barcelona) in a Urine sample. Blood tests need to have a range - as everyone is different. As long as you stay within that range, you won't be accused of anything, even if it's above your natural, baseline level. With lots of money and research behind them, I'm know players and doctors can easily find ways to make detection exponentially harder for the authorities, who are already lackadaisical when it comes to this issue.
I actually thought Zlatan was on something, but I grew to like him so much I couldn't be arsed
If City players are doping, how is it possible that they are not even in top 10 distance covered and they are only fifth best at number of sprints? They are behind Huddersfield in both lists.
https://www.skysports.com/football/...nning-stats-liverpool-are-king-of-the-sprints
https://www.skysports.com/football/...nning-stats-liverpool-are-king-of-the-sprints
The whole Spanish situation across a range of sports makes very interesting reading.
And then they inexplicably decided to destroy all samples and just sweep it all away!
Nothing to see here lads.
When I used to play football, I was well into running, so simply ran the sedentary guys from the office off the pitch.
When you see certain teams and players doing that to top level professional teams, there's always a massive suspicion something aint quite right.
And then they inexplicably decided to destroy all samples and just sweep it all away!
Nothing to see here lads.
When I used to play football, I was well into running, so simply ran the sedentary guys from the office off the pitch.
When you see certain teams and players doing that to top level professional teams, there's always a massive suspicion something aint quite right.
Mainly because players don't "know" that others are on it. It's more an unspoken fact rather than something that's discussed at team meetings. Also, reputations get damaged and without proof, lawsuits will be ten-a-penny. You end up with egg on your face if you say you've been doping (especially when you're not successful) and other players you've accused (most will have an amicable relationship with ex-teammates so won't throw them under the bus in any way) turn around and go "where's the proof?" They're fighting a losing battle. If there's a scandal (hopefully no more blood bags get destroyed...) then I'd assume more would come out but what does an ex-teammate of Cristiano Ronaldo get for calling him out on it? A fat-law suit and a ruined reputation when they can't back-up their claims.
Our Fred’s actually a convicted doper although since he’s signed for United he can only be described as a convicted dope.
I’d give the Scouse a pass because there’s never really been any smoke around Klopp as far as I’m aware. Guardiola, on the other hand has been sending out smoke signals for years. I’m sure it will come out in the wash one day.
I have to say I raised an eyebrow when Casillas had that heart attack as he play in Spain in the noughties when they had a big spike in on pitch heart related deaths and the whole Feuentes thing was going on.
The same way peadophiles pass random background checks.
Round Manchester there was talk of him having the odd recreational line now and then but that could have been City fans trying to smear him. Like the rumour that used to go around about John O’Shea being gay.
Special "tonic" given to his players developed by a former Olympic champion (a lot of these people have had aids), who works closely with their nutritionist, raises an eyebrow for sure.
Do you have a link?
Very interesting read - thanks for posting.
The only mention of drugs I have heard over the last few decades is ..
1) Maradona
2) Recreational use - Bosnich and Mutu
3) Chelsea and Robben some murmurs about blood doping ie doctor injecting o2 blood back in to increase recovery times
4) Rio and his missed test
5) Messi and his growth hormones
Apart from that you are right it is not really common place to test all a team - just a couple pl selected players after games.
I would imagine if there is any doping then it would not be done during the season or whilst playing in case you are selected to provide a sample to test.
I was always a bit suspicious of Germany because they did so well at the world cup and the europeans - they just seemed fitter but then they went with a young squad and things went a bit pear shape when they held onto the older guard a bit longer. So perhaps it was just because they were young.
Re the likes of Jamie Vardy ... 6% body fat is not that unusual for elite men but it can make a massive difference to performance.
It would be shocking if the likes of Pep and Klopp were doping their teams- I would find it hard to believe but I said the same about Armstrong.
The only mention of drugs I have heard over the last few decades is ..
1) Maradona
2) Recreational use - Bosnich and Mutu
3) Chelsea and Robben some murmurs about blood doping ie doctor injecting o2 blood back in to increase recovery times
4) Rio and his missed test
5) Messi and his growth hormones
Apart from that you are right it is not really common place to test all a team - just a couple pl selected players after games.
I would imagine if there is any doping then it would not be done during the season or whilst playing in case you are selected to provide a sample to test.
I was always a bit suspicious of Germany because they did so well at the world cup and the europeans - they just seemed fitter but then they went with a young squad and things went a bit pear shape when they held onto the older guard a bit longer. So perhaps it was just because they were young.
Re the likes of Jamie Vardy ... 6% body fat is not that unusual for elite men but it can make a massive difference to performance.
It would be shocking if the likes of Pep and Klopp were doping their teams- I would find it hard to believe but I said the same about Armstrong.
One of the Liverpool fans in the office told me this as well but it didn't sound suspicious to me.
Perhaps. Seemed futile in cycling for years but all that conjecture ultimately did do something.
I don't think it will because there is too much corruption at the heart of the organizations running football, but at the same time, I like that questions are being asked. If nobody is doing that, then it's a certainty that nothing will happen.
Plus, without compelling evidence, there's invariably cynicism from fans who dismiss the accusations being born from jealousy, etc. and that reinforces the apathy when the subject arises. It's up to the bull-headed ones to keep plugging away and see what they can get.
This.
Ronaldo looks too good and Bale had migraines. It really isn't.
Some of this is based in research, such as Fuentes and of course the Spanish destruction of all those blood bags, which I didn't see in the article, but only skimmed.
A lot of this is an utter joke of an article, guesswork and bias masquerading poorly as insight and expertise.
Still, there is no doubt whatever that certain teams are doping, probably as company policy.
A lot of this is an utter joke of an article, guesswork and bias masquerading poorly as insight and expertise.
Still, there is no doubt whatever that certain teams are doping, probably as company policy.
The half life of, say, EPO is just a few hours. You can use it when you know you won’t be in trouble. It’s also possible to do manual blood transfusions which are undetectable unless football has introduced a «blood passport» ala cycling (which I seriously doubt they have). Easy peasy.
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That's the main reason.
There were 13 positive tests in PL in 4 seasons between 2012 and 2016. All of them were "social" drugs, so they didn't reveal players identity.
Well we know one.
If doping is as widespread as some on here are saying they must do.
Who said anything about calling out teammates? A guy like Eric Djemba Djemba, who was declared bankrupt a few years ago, could easily make £50,000 by just going to the press and telling them a team doctor was helping him dope at United.
There’s been a few scandals but nothing large enough that makes me think every top level player is doping.[/Quote][/QUOTE]
Understandable. I would laugh it off as well but because it's a German who would have been a young adult around the time when it was proven in court that Germany were doping their athletes, it certainly gives me a nagging feeling that "old habits die hard".
Why would someone he himself describes as the "best nutritionist in the world" need his help or advice on what to give players in a multi-billion pound corporation? Something is a bit fishy.
I didn't realise that names were not released but thinking about it I vaguely remember that Saido Berahino failed one ... I think his club said he was injured so he could serve his ban
The "know" is in quotes because it isn't spoken at a round table - but you can guess that players are.
Just like you can walk into any gym across the country and "know" that people are on the juice. You don't really know, but you "know".
And what do you think that would do to his reputation? How he's seen in his home country? His ego? How his family and comrades see him? People don't admit to it even when there's nothing to lose. Fake nattys are a thing for a reason. When he's a semi-famous person in his home town this could be suicide, in terms of respect and future employment. No doubt he'd be ostracised - most people who take steroids are. That's also assuming he has or knew what he was given.
Every player isn't doing it. But a lot of them are.
Very common practice. Clubs don't have to declare when a player has failed a recreational drugs test and is banned for 6 weeks. They usually just say he's injured, will be out for a few weeks.
Do you remember Dwain Chambers?
As soon as you learn a bit about doping you realise that
1. You basically have to be an idiot to get caught e.g. micro-dosing
2. The things that are being taken are largely not tested for, or the tests aren’t sophisticated enough to pick it up.
1. You basically have to be an idiot to get caught e.g. micro-dosing
2. The things that are being taken are largely not tested for, or the tests aren’t sophisticated enough to pick it up.
The fuentes stuff has been known for a good few years I never understood why nobody talks about it or cares. Not many people mention pep as a doper, but the opposite with lance Armstrong. All bizarre blind eye stuff
You know that all the 90s teams were done for doping including pep as a player? Lots of written about it. Just nobody cares