Jadon Sancho (Out)

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Phil Osophy

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We were warned about Sancho by the Dortmund coach. The poor man said the year before we signed him that Sancho staying at Dortmund was good and fine but "he has to run more than 20 minutes in games". The man looked depressed while talking about him. The signals were all there and we didn' see it (I include myself).

I'm not against any measures by Ineos but the key here is learning to identify players more than doing things to punish them. Signing someone who's already failing in terms of discipline and hardwork is playing the roulette. If we want a team with drive, energy and quality we have to identify a lot of players with drive, energy and quality.

Sir Alex did it in the era of VHS, and nowadays with all the technology and resources available we seem to miss every transfer. If Ineos want to fix the club they could start from there.
 

GMoore23

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If the player himself is willing to move on and take a huge loss in income (because he's been paid a lot more than he objectively deserves), fine - make it happen, assist him in any way to facilitate a move to a club that suits him.

If he's not willing to lose income, that's his problem. He stays and tries his best. If his best means he should stay in the reserves for the remainder of his contract, that's also his problem. Let him rot there to set a precedent.

I don't give a feck about the "optics" of having a 300k+ player rotting in the reserves. It's up to him to be up to standards.
With you 100%.

I wouldn't even put him in the U23's as wouldn't want his influence there either. Just make him train alone and dock his wages if he don't turn up.
 

stefan92

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With you 100%.

I wouldn't even put him in the U23's as wouldn't want his influence there either. Just make him train alone and dock his wages if he don't turn up.
I am not sure about the legal situation in England (especially not after Brexit), but I know that would not be allowed in Germany. A professional football player has the right to get access to professional training. As football is a team sport, individual training is not fulfilling this. At least that's what German courts decided in similar cases that went to court.

Would be interesting to know how this is in England?
 

THE ZOL

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Yes, let's sign more former Dutch league players who have no business playing at this level
Let’s not forget that Malen has the same agent as Ten Hag which also happens to employ his son.

Let’s also remember that, as of today, Sancho remains the last forward to score at Old Trafford in the league.
 

stefan92

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who gives a shit? Can the lad play at EPL level or not is the ONLY thing that counts, frankly.
He doesn't even play on a level good enough for Dortmund in the BL (which is why they want to sell). United does ruin even good BL players, why should a bad one work?
 

Snow

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I am not sure about the legal situation in England (especially not after Brexit), but I know that would not be allowed in Germany. A professional football player has the right to get access to professional training. As football is a team sport, individual training is not fulfilling this. At least that's what German courts decided in similar cases that went to court.

Would be interesting to know how this is in England?
Simple. Give some non-leaguers training access and have the player train with them. Pay them 50 quid each.
 

stefan92

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Simple. Give some non-leaguers training access and have the player train with them. Pay them 50 quid each.
Just thinking about this... offer a "training session with a PL star" and let THEM pay the 50 quid for it, make money off it.
 

THE ZOL

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Would it really be for the greater good to take a huge loss in paying out Sancho’s contract when Ten Hag’s future is itself up in the air and INEOS / Glazers may be forced to pay out his contract? Due to FFP restrictions, the new manager would then face the obstacle of trying to make it work with Ten Hag’s Eredivise-level signings without being able to replace them. Besides all of this, it could also be the case that a new manager is able to make it work with Sancho.
 

Red00012

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Would it really be for the greater good to take a huge loss in paying out Sancho’s contract when Ten Hag’s future is itself up in the air and INEOS / Glazers may be forced to pay out his contract? Due to FFP restrictions, the new manager would then face the obstacle of trying to make it work with Ten Hag’s Eredivise-level signings without being able to replace them. Besides all of this, it could also be the case that a new manager is able to make it work with Sancho.
If ETH gets sacked the 1st thing that happens is Sancho will be back .
 

THE ZOL

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who gives a shit? Can the lad play at EPL level or not is the ONLY thing that counts, frankly.
Can you trust Ten Hag’s talent ID after signings that have been made on the basis that he has either worked with them before (Antony, Amrabat, Onana), are part of the same agency (Hojlund) or that he observed them in the Netherlands (Weghorst, Malacia, Mount)?
 

VP89

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Would it really be for the greater good to take a huge loss in paying out Sancho’s contract when Ten Hag’s future is itself up in the air and INEOS / Glazers may be forced to pay out his contract? Due to FFP restrictions, the new manager would then face the obstacle of trying to make it work with Ten Hag’s Eredivise-level signings without being able to replace them. Besides all of this, it could also be the case that a new manager is able to make it work with Sancho.
For many reasons, yes. The idea that Sancho has a future with us is beyond far fetched. He's had his professionalism questioned by 3 different coaches and I think even the DoF or CEO of Dortmund. He's done here, and should feck off to whoever will take him irrespective of the manager.
 

antonyrightfoot

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He is a huge disappointment of course, but when I see managers like Dyche how they transform players like Dwight McNeil, I wonder if a decent manager cannot revive JS career.
 

THE ZOL

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For many reasons, yes. The idea that Sancho has a future with us is beyond far fetched. He's had his professionalism questioned by 3 different coaches and I think even the DoF or CEO of Dortmund. He's done here, and should feck off to whoever will take him irrespective of the manager.
United have lots of good professionals but what we do not have is quality. With patience and nurturing Sancho can become a better professional or we can make allowances so long as he earns that through performances on the pitch. You can’t treat every individual the same. Even Sir Alex did not hold, for example, Giggs to the same standards as Anderson. The key to man-management is creating an environment for everyone to thrive and Sir Alex was praised for giving the hairdryer to some & turning a blind eye to others.

However, the lack of quality among our existing forward line like Pellistri, Antony and Hojlund cannot be coached or nurtured no matter how hard you try. They can be the best professionals in the league and they would still fail to impact the game beyond running around.

Quality and professionalism are both important things, don’t get me wrong. But the reality is that most footballers have more of one and less than the other. It’s important to respect this diversity and these nuances because, at the end of the day, a successful team needs both.

I think the issue with Sancho is that he is naturally unfit. This may be down to genetic factors. He has never been the fastest or the quickest. At United, he usually tends to start games with much intensity and then he starts blowing at around the hour mark. Then, when he gets the ball in attacking positions he is quite clearly knackered from all the running down the line. To get the best out of a player like this you need someone to do his running for him so that when he gets the ball he has the energy to do his magic. I think Sancho has enough talent and potential to earn the opportunity to have an environment catered to him like this considering that we don’t play a possession-based system that would facilitate his ability to conserve energy.
 

VP89

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United have lots of good professionals but what we do not have is quality. With patience and nurturing Sancho can become a better professional or we can make allowances so long as he earns that through performances on the pitch. You can’t treat every individual the same. Even Sir Alex did not hold, for example, Giggs to the same standards as Anderson. The key to man-management is creating an environment for everyone to thrive and Sir Alex was praised for giving the hairdryer to some & turning a blind eye to others.

However, the lack of quality among our existing forward line like Pellistri, Antony and Hojlund cannot be coached or nurtured no matter how hard you try. They can be the best professionals in the league and they would still fail to impact the game beyond running around.

Quality and professionalism are both important things, don’t get me wrong. But the reality is that most footballers have more of one and less than the other. It’s important to respect this diversity and these nuances because, at the end of the day, a successful team needs both.

I think the issue with Sancho is that he is naturally unfit. This may be down to genetic factors. He has never been the fastest or the quickest. At United, he usually tends to start games with much intensity and then he starts blowing at around the hour mark. Then, when he gets the ball in attacking positions he is quite clearly knackered from all the running down the line. To get the best out of a player like this you need someone to do his running for him so that when he gets the ball he has the energy to do his magic. I think Sancho has enough talent and potential to earn the opportunity to have an environment catered to him like this considering that we don’t play a possession-based system that would facilitate his ability to conserve energy.
The issue with sancho is that he's an unprofessional cnut. I don't want unprofessional quality players. It would be pretty dumb to keep him based on that.
 

Ish

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United have lots of good professionals but what we do not have is quality. With patience and nurturing Sancho can become a better professional or we can make allowances so long as he earns that through performances on the pitch. You can’t treat every individual the same. Even Sir Alex did not hold, for example, Giggs to the same standards as Anderson. The key to man-management is creating an environment for everyone to thrive and Sir Alex was praised for giving the hairdryer to some & turning a blind eye to others.

However, the lack of quality among our existing forward line like Pellistri, Antony and Hojlund cannot be coached or nurtured no matter how hard you try. They can be the best professionals in the league and they would still fail to impact the game beyond running around.

Quality and professionalism are both important things, don’t get me wrong. But the reality is that most footballers have more of one and less than the other. It’s important to respect this diversity and these nuances because, at the end of the day, a successful team needs both.

I think the issue with Sancho is that he is naturally unfit. This may be down to genetic factors. He has never been the fastest or the quickest. At United, he usually tends to start games with much intensity and then he starts blowing at around the hour mark. Then, when he gets the ball in attacking positions he is quite clearly knackered from all the running down the line. To get the best out of a player like this you need someone to do his running for him so that when he gets the ball he has the energy to do his magic. I think Sancho has enough talent and potential to earn the opportunity to have an environment catered to him like this considering that we don’t play a possession-based system that would facilitate his ability to conserve energy.
All your posts in this thread is very much pro-Sancho and anti-EtH. It does my head in. Sure, have issues with the manager for a variety of valid reasons one can - especially during this season but anyone trying to justify or defend Sancho needs to give their head a wobble.

I’m sick and tired of these lazy, overpaid, fair weather players we’ve accumulated. Giving them fat contracts when they’ve achieved next to nothing in the game and elevating to ego/level to way above reality in the process. It’s one of the major reasons we’ve been shite post SAF and will continue to do so, unless we get rid of this type of player/character. I’d fully back the manager and club to get rid of him.
 

madzo2007

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United have lots of good professionals but what we do not have is quality. With patience and nurturing Sancho can become a better professional or we can make allowances so long as he earns that through performances on the pitch. You can’t treat every individual the same. Even Sir Alex did not hold, for example, Giggs to the same standards as Anderson. The key to man-management is creating an environment for everyone to thrive and Sir Alex was praised for giving the hairdryer to some & turning a blind eye to others.

However, the lack of quality among our existing forward line like Pellistri, Antony and Hojlund cannot be coached or nurtured no matter how hard you try. They can be the best professionals in the league and they would still fail to impact the game beyond running around.

Quality and professionalism are both important things, don’t get me wrong. But the reality is that most footballers have more of one and less than the other. It’s important to respect this diversity and these nuances because, at the end of the day, a successful team needs both.

I think the issue with Sancho is that he is naturally unfit. This may be down to genetic factors. He has never been the fastest or the quickest. At United, he usually tends to start games with much intensity and then he starts blowing at around the hour mark. Then, when he gets the ball in attacking positions he is quite clearly knackered from all the running down the line. To get the best out of a player like this you need someone to do his running for him so that when he gets the ball he has the energy to do his magic. I think Sancho has enough talent and potential to earn the opportunity to have an environment catered to him like this considering that we don’t play a possession-based system that would facilitate his ability to conserve energy.
If Sancho was still a teenager then I'd understand your point about nurturing and patience but hes a 23 year old man who has played professional football since he was 17. That is 6 years of having to turn up to places on time and coaches taking the the time to teach and coach him and still he can't turn up on time, be professional or train to a standard a manager wants.

He probably has a lot of hangers on who big him up and tell him hes the best and no one to take him to one side to tell him he's being a bit of a d**k and to get back to playing football properly. Players at United have been getting away with it for too long, if Sancho has to be the one to be bear the brunt of the standards the manager is trying to set then so be it.
 

Lash

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United have lots of good professionals but what we do not have is quality. With patience and nurturing Sancho can become a better professional or we can make allowances so long as he earns that through performances on the pitch. You can’t treat every individual the same. Even Sir Alex did not hold, for example, Giggs to the same standards as Anderson. The key to man-management is creating an environment for everyone to thrive and Sir Alex was praised for giving the hairdryer to some & turning a blind eye to others.

However, the lack of quality among our existing forward line like Pellistri, Antony and Hojlund cannot be coached or nurtured no matter how hard you try. They can be the best professionals in the league and they would still fail to impact the game beyond running around.

Quality and professionalism are both important things, don’t get me wrong. But the reality is that most footballers have more of one and less than the other. It’s important to respect this diversity and these nuances because, at the end of the day, a successful team needs both.

I think the issue with Sancho is that he is naturally unfit. This may be down to genetic factors. He has never been the fastest or the quickest. At United, he usually tends to start games with much intensity and then he starts blowing at around the hour mark. Then, when he gets the ball in attacking positions he is quite clearly knackered from all the running down the line. To get the best out of a player like this you need someone to do his running for him so that when he gets the ball he has the energy to do his magic. I think Sancho has enough talent and potential to earn the opportunity to have an environment catered to him like this considering that we don’t play a possession-based system that would facilitate his ability to conserve energy.
This is such an odd defense of Sancho being lazy. Can you name a top side who has a forward like that? In the modern front line, they all have to work hard, no one "does the running for them". Absolutely mental take.
 

Wing Attack Plan R

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Our next manager's priority will be to win games rather than continue the previous manager's beef with Sancho. We often hear new managers talk about 'clean slates' shortly after being appointed.
You won't hear it this time. The new manager would be insane for allowing that snake back in. Managers work with players who have lost their place in the team, not players who publicly called their manager a liar then refused to apologize, thus earning a banishment from the first team. Show me any case that is similar to this one where the new manager invited back in the poison that killed his predecessor. Beyond the manager, the fans won't support Sancho. He's fecking done.
 

Pronewbie

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United have lots of good professionals but what we do not have is quality. With patience and nurturing Sancho can become a better professional or we can make allowances so long as he earns that through performances on the pitch. You can’t treat every individual the same. Even Sir Alex did not hold, for example, Giggs to the same standards as Anderson. The key to man-management is creating an environment for everyone to thrive and Sir Alex was praised for giving the hairdryer to some & turning a blind eye to others.

However, the lack of quality among our existing forward line like Pellistri, Antony and Hojlund cannot be coached or nurtured no matter how hard you try. They can be the best professionals in the league and they would still fail to impact the game beyond running around.

Quality and professionalism are both important things, don’t get me wrong. But the reality is that most footballers have more of one and less than the other. It’s important to respect this diversity and these nuances because, at the end of the day, a successful team needs both.

I think the issue with Sancho is that he is naturally unfit. This may be down to genetic factors. He has never been the fastest or the quickest. At United, he usually tends to start games with much intensity and then he starts blowing at around the hour mark. Then, when he gets the ball in attacking positions he is quite clearly knackered from all the running down the line. To get the best out of a player like this you need someone to do his running for him so that when he gets the ball he has the energy to do his magic. I think Sancho has enough talent and potential to earn the opportunity to have an environment catered to him like this considering that we don’t play a possession-based system that would facilitate his ability to conserve energy.
He can't cut it in the PL with that attitude. Doesn't have enough natural talent and fitness to coast. He needs to go.
 

Wing Attack Plan R

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United have lots of good professionals but what we do not have is quality. [1] With patience and nurturing Sancho can become a better professional or we can make allowances so long as he earns that through performances on the pitch. You can’t treat every individual the same. [2] Even Sir Alex did not hold, for example, Giggs to the same standards as Anderson. The key to man-management is creating an environment for everyone to thrive and Sir Alex was praised for giving the hairdryer to some & turning a blind eye to others.

However, the lack of quality among our existing forward line like Pellistri, Antony and Hojlund cannot be coached or nurtured no matter how hard you try. They can be the best professionals in the league and they would still fail to impact the game beyond running around.

Quality and professionalism are both important things, don’t get me wrong. But the reality is that most footballers have more of one and less than the other. It’s important to respect this diversity and these nuances because, at the end of the day, a successful team needs both.

I think the issue with Sancho is that he is naturally unfit. This may be down to genetic factors. He has never been the fastest or the quickest. At United, he usually tends to start games with much intensity and then he starts blowing at around the hour mark. Then, when he gets the ball in attacking positions he is quite clearly knackered from all the running down the line. [3] To get the best out of a player like this you need someone to do his running for him so that when he gets the ball he has the energy to do his magic. I think [4] Sancho has enough talent and potential to earn the opportunity to have an environment catered to him like this considering that we don’t play a possession-based system that would facilitate his ability to conserve energy.
1. We don't have that kind of time and patience for a waster like Sancho, who has never shown anything of note in a United shirt.
2. I'm trying but failing to understand what this even means. Giggs had been part of the United set up since 1987, and the first team since 1990; Anderson joined in 2007. Giggs already was setting the standards.
3. He's a fecking forward, man. Or are you suggesting we let him camp out in front of the opposition goal like Ronaldo 2.0 was doing?
4. Completely disagree. He's been found out. Bundesliga with Haaland and Bellingham in the side made him look better than he really is.
 

Gabriel Djemba-Bebe

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You won't hear it this time. The new manager would be insane for allowing that snake back in. Managers work with players who have lost their place in the team, not players who publicly called their manager a liar then refused to apologize, thus earning a banishment from the first team. Show me any case that is similar to this one where the new manager invited back in the poison that killed his predecessor. Beyond the manager, the fans won't support Sancho. He's fecking done.
Roy Keane with Ireland after Mick Mccarthy was sacked.
 

Pickle85

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Our next manager's priority will be to win games rather than continue the previous manager's beef with Sancho. We often hear new managers talk about 'clean slates' shortly after being appointed.
And how would Sancho help to win games?! He's shown absolutely nothing since joining, been poor for England (then dropped). Genuinely don't see why a new manager would think he's the answer.
 

Gabriel Djemba-Bebe

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Not the same at all.
Comparing Roy Keane as a professional with Jacob Sancho is about the funniest thing I've ever read here. Nice one.
Of course the circumstances surrounding every player vs manager fallout will never be exactly the same - Twitter wasn't around in 2002 for a start. However, you'd have thought there would be no way back for a player who personally insulted their manager and was banished from the camp as a result, however those personal insults weren't a concern for the next Ireland manager, as he wasn't there to witness it and therefore he prioritised winning football matches. I can't imagine the next manager will continue beefing with Sancho. If he's turning up to training on time during his first few days in the office, then I reckon he'll be given a clean slate. It's how it goes in the world of football when you're a commodity for a club who pays you 375k a week.

For the record, I don't want Sancho to return, but the cynic in me thinks he will.
 

USREDEVIL

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Our next manager's priority will be to win games rather than continue the previous manager's beef with Sancho. We often hear new managers talk about 'clean slates' shortly after being appointed.
You are right. Getting Sancho back will turn things around. Been amazing just before ETH cruelly threw him into the children's playpen for having the audacity to question his obviously top level training and attitude.
 

Gabriel Djemba-Bebe

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You are right. Getting Sancho back will turn things around. Been amazing just before ETH cruelly threw him into the children's playpen for having the audacity to question his obviously top level training and attitude.
Jesus Christ. I never said Sancho was performing well before this fallout started, or that he was a top professional. I just said the next manager will likely want all player options available to him. People are getting way too touchy about this subject. I agree that Sancho has behaved poorly and deserved to be punished by Ten Hag. Calm your tits.
 

Pickle85

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Of course the circumstances surrounding every player vs manager fallout will never be exactly the same - Twitter wasn't around in 2002 for a start. However, you'd have thought there would be no way back for a player who personally insulted their manager and was banished from the camp as a result, however those personal insults weren't a concern for the next Ireland manager, as he wasn't there to witness it and therefore he prioritised winning football matches. I can't imagine the next manager will continue beefing with Sancho. If he's turning up to training on time during his first few days in the office, then I reckon he'll be given a clean slate. It's how it goes in the world of football when you're a commodity for a club who pays you 375k a week.

For the record, I don't want Sancho to return, but the cynic in me thinks he will.
Not to labour the point but the two situations are entirely different, given that one was an ultra hard worker that was sounding off about the camp's lax attitude while the other was a lazy shite getting chastised for being a lazy shite. Couldn't be more different. The only similarity is that the managers had issues with them.
 

Gabriel Djemba-Bebe

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Not to labour the point but the two situations are entirely different, given that one was an ultra hard worker that was sounding off about the camp's lax attitude while the other was a lazy shite getting chastised for being a lazy shite. Couldn't be more different. The only similarity is that the managers had issues with them.
Not to labour the point even further, but my point was never that Keane and Sancho displayed similar levels of professionalism. Merely that the next manager will likely be unbothered about a fallout that occurred prior to his appointment, even-more-so when that player is a 375k a week commodity who will strengthen their squad depth, and will likely offer more creativity to the team than someone like Pellistri who's currently getting minutes off the bench.
 

Red00012

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And how would Sancho help to win games?! He's shown absolutely nothing since joining, been poor for England (then dropped). Genuinely don't see why a new manager would think he's the answer.
Ya that’s why he’ll leave him rotting because he thinks he won’t do anything :wenger:
sancho will be back immediately after the sacking .
 

Lost bear

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Not to labour the point even further, but my point was never that Keane and Sancho displayed similar levels of professionalism. Merely that the next manager will likely be unbothered about a fallout that occurred prior to his appointment, even-more-so when that player is a 375k a week commodity who will strengthen their squad depth, and will likely offer more creativity to the team than someone like Pellistri who's currently getting minutes off the bench.
Well, I'm going to labour it even more. The internal cynic may possibly be correct, but any new manager that took its advice would have to be more than a little crazy. The issue with Sancho wasn't a personality clash between a manager and a player based on the two individuals, but a demand by the manager that the player abided by the fundamental terms of the contract and professional standards that govern the game. Sancho failed to meet the most basic obligations of timekeeping and attendance, and any sensible manager would recognise that if he's done that with his predecessor he's extremely likely to do it again with him (/her).

A final point by way of aside: I accidently wrote young Jadon's surname as 'Snacho'. Jadon Snacho: there you have it.
 

USREDEVIL

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Jesus Christ. I never said Sancho was performing well before this fallout started, or that he was a top professional. I just said the next manager will likely want all player options available to him. People are getting way too touchy about this subject. I agree that Sancho has behaved poorly and deserved to be punished by Ten Hag. Calm your tits.
No you were acting like he'd help us be better. That's bs.
 

Gabriel Djemba-Bebe

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Well, I'm going to labour it even more. The internal cynic may possibly be correct, but any new manager that took its advice would have to be more than a little crazy. The issue with Sancho wasn't a personality clash between a manager and a player based on the two individuals, but a demand by the manager that the player abided by the fundamental terms of the contract and professional standards that govern the game. Sancho failed to meet the most basic obligations of timekeeping and attendance, and any sensible manager would recognise that if he's done that with his predecessor he's extremely likely to do it again with him (/her).

A final point by way of aside: I accidently wrote young Jadon's surname as 'Snacho'. Jadon Snacho: there you have it.
I respect the thought process behind that and I would love nothing more than for the next manager to uphold those beliefs. However, going off that logic, no manager will want to sign Sancho because they are aware of his poor timekeeping? I'm sure there will be some clubs that stay well clear of him, but I doubt he'd struggle to find suitors (especially if he fancied lowering his wage demands). My point being that in the world of elite level football, managers aren't going to let a fallout over timekeeping under the previous regime get in the way of them selecting him.
No you were acting like he'd help us be better. That's bs.
I said that the next manager will likely want a full squad available to pick from in order to help them win football matches. You might want to try using some basic reading skills before going off on a weird post demonstrating a poorly executed use of sarcasm.
 

USREDEVIL

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Insulting another member
I respect the thought process behind that and I would love nothing more than for the next manager to uphold those beliefs. However, going off that logic, no manager will want to sign Sancho because they are aware of his poor timekeeping? I'm sure there will be some clubs that stay well clear of him, but I doubt he'd struggle to find suitors (especially if he fancied lowering his wage demands). My point being that in the world of elite level football, managers aren't going to let a fallout over timekeeping under the previous regime get in the way of them selecting him.

I said that the next manager will likely want a full squad available to pick from in order to help them win football matches. You might want to try using some basic reading skills before going off on a weird post demonstrating a poorly executed use of sarcasm.
Feck off. Ignoring your dumb ass.
 

saik

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All your posts in this thread is very much pro-Sancho and anti-EtH
He might be Sancho himself as he absolutely hates ETH. Even in that thread where Luckhurst and other reporters were banned from press conference he was there with the same shit about Sancho and calling others as ETH cultists just because they agreed with banning those reporters.
 
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