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Jadon Sancho| Staying at Dortmund for now
- Thread starter Adnan
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Totally agree with you and I’ve been posting about this for months.
Nobody here can reliably tell us to what level Masons progression will be hindered when playing out of his natural position.
I happen to think it’s potentially a hell of a lot more damaging than many like to think in here.
Hold up play, positioning, linkup, finishing, movement. All these key areas need to be worked on and fine tuned for an elite level striker. No matter how talented you are.
We can’t sit here and say ‘ah well Henry and Ronaldo made the transition.’ Ffs.
*Yawn* 
Re Fjørtoft
Fjørtoft is still a clueless clown
Fjørtoft is still a clueless clown
Our fans are way too quiet, we've signed 1 person and supposedly chasing sancho all summer, honestly however is in charge needs to be fired, get someone in who can work alot faster
Looks like Jan is starting to become an expert on football transfers. He's learning to say lots of things without actually saying anything.
Fjortoft has been saying the same "Might happen, might not" shit for two months.
He should be banned, he knows as much as I do about this transfer.
He should be banned, he knows as much as I do about this transfer.
This is off guys.
Nobody reporting it here. Nobody reporting it for last few weeks in Germany.
It's done.
Nobody reporting it here. Nobody reporting it for last few weeks in Germany.
It's done.
The tweet I posted on this page about our efforts for him intensifying is from a German journo that's followed by Dortmund
Well unless we actually make a bid for him I don’t know how much things can “intensify”. Also Dortmund’s stance has always been pay us €120m and he can go, so as long as we’re willing to pay that sort of money I think he’ll be ours regardless of them wanting to keep him. They aren’t turning that money down not in this climate. That being said I’ve seen nothing so far to suggest we are willing to pay the money and the rumours starting to come out that we’re looking at potential stop gap signings suggests that.
I think this is the week! Forget the August 10 deadline or €120m. Have a gut feeling - that this week is the decider. Its international break which means the players are away but when they get back - its back to business.
EPL starting on 12th, Bundesliga (and our season) the week after. Dortmund will never let him go so close to beginning of the season - it doesn't give them time to sign a decent replacement at all. So sadly, if its not done by this Friday, I'm afraid its the end of muppet season in regards to Sancho.
So... Let's hope we get this done in the next 4 days!
EPL starting on 12th, Bundesliga (and our season) the week after. Dortmund will never let him go so close to beginning of the season - it doesn't give them time to sign a decent replacement at all. So sadly, if its not done by this Friday, I'm afraid its the end of muppet season in regards to Sancho.
So... Let's hope we get this done in the next 4 days!
Yeah, sadly agree with you.
If this was the quiet before the storm a la Havertz, at this point you had every reliable mouthpiece saying it was only a matter of time.
We're also probably at the point where even if we pay what Dortmund had asked for, they'd refuse it to save face.
Ed Woodward has opened an empty word file and typed the words "Bid for Jodan Sancho" today. Tomorrow he aims to write two more lines. #Progress
Well the reporting on the UK side the past week or so mentions that we'd seemingly be willing to give them their money, just that the issue is with 3rd party related fees
German season begins this weekend with the 1st cup round
I don't see how there is this running theme of "Dortmund isn't desperate for cash". If you really read their financials, they ARE running a deficit every single season. It's quite simple really. They have this habit of bringing in older players on high wages for low fees (Hummels, Witsel, Meunier, Hazard, Brandt, Can) plus players on really high wages (Reus). Furthermore, they fill in gaps with loan players, which are not their asset to begin with -- which is good for cashflow issues, but is just wasting money on an asset you don't own. In order to fund their high wage bills, they need to sell, or get expensive financing from banks. I would imagine it's probably above 8% in interest, more likely in the 10-12% range. Never a good idea to pay wages through loans.
Dortmund have been lauded by many journalists for their ability to develop talent. I disagree. Dortmund is very good a finding top quality teenagers, paying top dollar for them to come to Dortmund, promise playing time, and then sell them to larger clubs. When was the last Dortmund player who started and finished their career at Dortmund, from youth all the way up to the senior team?
Okay, so now many of the big clubs are wise to this. Instead of 4m or 8m on a young 17, 18 or 19 year old prospect, these kids are now going for 30m. Wow. Bellingham was 30m+, you need to pay him 75-100k per week, you have him for 3 seasons, say. That's another 12-15m. If you sell him for 50m, it's basically a loss when you include agent fees, etc.
Look, I don't know if they will sell Sancho this summer to United -- frankly, no one does here in the Caf. But I can tell you, that they HAVE to sell Sancho, Haaland and their other young superstars, OR, get rid of all of their older, high wage players and change their model. Just read their financials, look at their wage bills. They can certainly get a loan, but with COVID and all of the uncertainty and so much of their revenue dependent on game day income (not TV deal as in the PL), they will either need to sell Sancho in the next two windows or drastically cut their wage bill.
Second point: IF Utd is negotiating with Sancho on personal terms, the deal is done with Dortmund, we've agreed to meet their asking price. Otherwise, there would be no need to discuss personal terms. Now, we may pull out, like we did with Haaland, due to the agent fees or exhorbitant wage demands. But there was never a doubt that we would meet the RB Salzburg asking price for Haaland, we just would not put in the 75m release clause and pay unreasonable agent fees.
No chance of us getting him after the Bundesliga starts.
Since checking last week, odds have shortened for us signing Sancho and lengthened for him staying at Dortmund.
It's the other way round, actually. If you haven't got the players' agreement, what's the point in negotiating with the club? Thiago would have been off to Liverpool weeks ago, if your logic was to be applied.
You can tell when someone is a fan of Fm.
As I’ve said all along we will pay up (the asking price the press have reported all along) probably sometime in the first week of October.
Disagree. Thiago's asking price is 30m for a 29 year old CM on high wages. Sancho is a 20 year old 120m record signing who is requesting 300K per week. Two totally different situations. Thiago's contract is running down, Bayern won't give him 3 years (or is it 4? Can't remember), and WANT to offload him.
If Dortmund does not want to sell, why would they let us negotiate with the Sancho group? What's the point?
Nicely put and well researched I'd say. Can't say I've read Dortmund's annual reports, my information stems mainly from media coverage about the results. So it may very well be the case that they have to sell players in order to finance their expenditures. It definitely sounds plausible the way you put it.
However, I don't know their annual audits of the last years but according to transfermarkt, they made around +160m from transfer fees since 2017/18 before the start of this season that saw them signing Can and Bellingham for 50m. Now I'm aware that those sums don't find their ways in the books as expenditures and profits like that and I know that large parts of those payments are probably scheduled so that it affects their cash flow and there'll also be huge agent fees etc. But one can definitely suspect that they made a huge profit from those transfer windows so that they have more leeway now regarding the point in time at which they have to sell Sancho. In the end, I find it very hard to imagine that Dortmund would sign a player like Bellingham and pay 30+m for him during Corona times if there would be even the slightest possibility of risking their financial health.
Yes. And Woodward will be expecting adulation for securing an important signing.
The trouble is, by leaving it so late the player will be under-prepared to join his new team and the pressure of his price will make it very difficult. We got lucky with Fernandes' form when he came in. But had we got him at the start of the month we may have had an easier ride to top 4, giving us a greater chance in the cups.
No offense man, but you're on the wrong track there. All the reports suggest that Bayern met Thiago's demands but he suddenly didn't want to sign the negotiated contract anymore.
There's not just black and white. There are examples of both scenarios: Personal terms first, club second and vice versa.
Fernandes should have been brought in at the start of the season never mind the start of January.
Agents can talk with clubs anytime, there's nothing the holding club can do about it.
The club is using the silence to trick fans into thinking they are working away on this deal behind the scenes all summer when in reality it’s probably been dead since that deadline Dortmund set a month ago. That’s the last time we had any official news or any sustained media coverage. United may even actually think they are still working on a deal by considering to prepare or whatever they are at but all that means absolutely nothing if Dortmund won’t or don’t have to sell. Why haven’t we even bid yet? It makes no sense.
Some random journo tweeting that United's efforts to sign Sancho have intensified is nothing to get excited about, simply because there is no way he could possibly know that.
It was just a tweet to generate conversation. This thread is full of them.
Just thought it was interesting since he seems connected enough given that he's actually followed by the official Dortmund club account, unlike some of the other journo's referred to in this thread *coughs Jah Jah Forforts name*
Sure, I wasn't having a pop at you or anything, it's just a little frustrating that we haven't heard any solid info related to this transfer in a long time, save for random journos tweeting irrelevant nonsense to generate clicks.
have a feeling we would get him if we managed to sell a couple of players but there's zero noise about Pereira, Lingard, Mata, Jones, Dalot, Rojo..
This thread is getting depressing. As others have said it was probably dead a while ago. The club don't need to brief it's over just to put muppets out of their misery, in fact it's better to act like we were never in for him in the first place. Hopefully we'll go back in next year but we'll be up against competition from other clubs if revenue returns to normal. At the start of the window I said I'd be devastated if we didn't get him and would be happy with just him but to be honest, it doesn't look like anyone else other than Chelsea are doing big business and we don't know how Covid is going to hamper us moving forward either.
If we wanted to act like we were never in for him then we would have said as much.
"Financial health" is subjective and falls on a spectrum. Some would say they are financially healthy when they are living paycheck to paycheck. Others feel safe with $50K in the bank, but $50k in credit card bills. Dortmund and United are both public companies, you can read their financials and draw your own conclusions. I am absolutely positive that Dortmund has access to credit and won't be filing bankruptcy if they don't sell Sancho this window. But it makes the margins that they operate in that much thinner. If you can't buy young talent at cut rate prices, your assembly line breaks down.
Dortmund knows that they are a way station for Sancho, Haaland and Reyna. It's just a when, not an if.
Olmo and ziyech come to mind straight away and if you throw wages into it I'm sure they would have been on half of what it will take to get sancho to agree.
Agreed. They briefed last week that we had not contacted Messi’s representatives as they wanted that rumour shutdown. If the deal for Sancho was dead they would have briefed as such.
I saw two or three articles that said that Thiago wanted a four year contract, Bayern offered three, then the Bayern CEO said that Thiago was leaving. Maybe the German and English press are reporting things differently?
Ziyech is a decent player, but remains to see if he can deliver in a bigger league. Even if he could deliver the same level as in Ajax he wouldn't come close to Jadon.
Olmo might grow into something in the future, but unlikely to ever achieve anything close to what Jadon will.
Ziyech would be better than what we currently have as a winger, but if Sancho is attainable I would much rather want him. He's a more skilled player, much younger, a safer bet, and a better commercial package.
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