Film James Bond: No Time to Die

Probably should have worded that better in fairness. Take the recent gender swap remakes such as Ghostbusters, overboard and the all women oceans 11 film. They all flopped. People don’t want their favourite films/characters swapped for the sake of political correctness.
Ocean's 8 was a box office success, it had the biggest opening weekend for any Ocean's film.

As for ghostbusters it's hard to know if the reason for the film doing poorly was down to a all women cast or because the film was utter shite and for some reason the film decide to alienate and attack the ghostbuster fan base.

Plus with these two movies we are still talking about two well known franchises. I get the lets make a new thing instead of simply swapping argument but in today's world it doesn't work. Sadly.
Elba is too old and Hiddles/Fass just aren't believable as being able to fight dirty and kick the shit out of East European henchmen. They just don't have that innate hardness and would be like a revamp of Moore's Bond.
Dunno he basically plays a bond type character in Luther. Also you could just set the film/films around Bond nearing retirement(Which I don't think has been done before).
 
Ocean's 8 was a box office success, it had the biggest opening weekend for any Ocean's film.

As for ghostbusters it's hard to know if the reason for the film doing poorly was down to a all women cast or because the film was utter shite and for some reason the film decide to alienate and attack the ghostbuster fan base.

Plus with these two movies we are still talking about two well known franchises. I get the lets make a new thing instead of simply swapping argument but in today's world it doesn't work. Sadly.

Dunno he basically plays a bond type character in Luther. Also you could just set the film/films around Bond nearing retirement(Which I don't think has been done before).

The retiring age of a 00 agent is 45. Then again Moore was pushing 60 in view to a kill so it could work :D
 
Ian Fleming based the character on his own experiences and Bonds early life mimicked his own upbringing too. In other words that of a privileged, privately educated rich white boy.

How many black people do you know that could relate to that?

If you make James Bond black then you need to completely re-write his origins. Which begs the question why not just create a new character, that will appeal to black people without the baggage of all the race swap bollocks?

When was the last time those origins were remotely relavent to the character on screen? Is Moonraker thematically true to those origins? The one where Bond fights a metal giant in space? In fact, didn’t the most recent Bond re-tell his origins so he could be Blofelds brother? Was that all palatable because he was a white guy? In fact, weren’t his Fleming written origins re-written as far back as the 60s to excuse the fact Connery was Scottish? (Spoiler: they were) What’s stopping us doing that again?

We’ve done all that. Why do we need to keep doing it? What’s the point of making endless more Bond films for another 50 years if we’re restricted to this a singular interpretation? To reiterate... Would Idris in Casino Royale be a worse interpretation of Bond than Moonraker, or Die Another Day, just by being black? Why is “whiteness” more inherent to the character than the ever shifting tone of the series?

Also, sure, being black and posh wouldn’t wash in 1960, but in 2019 it very much can... especially if you go with the whole “adopted orphan” angle... which the current films are already somewhat leaning into.

The spiderman comparison is not relevant at all. Miles Morales Is a brand new character that becomes spiderman. No race swapping of Peter Parker, a brand new character that Latino/black people can relate to.

Did I not say exactly the same thing regarding Bond? Introduce a new black 00 agent in the next Bond film and then give him his own franchise to run with.

Isn’t this kind of thing already many people’s head cannon? Don’t people like to hypothesise that 007 is just a legacy number, passed down to different people, in order to reconsile all the differences in actors, tone, setting, etc? So why is that different to the “passing of the mantle” Spider-Verse?

It just seems so utterly boring to me. Shakespeare hasn’t survived all these years by people insisting Romeo and Juliet are always depicted as Veronan teenagers, has he? In fact, the complete opposite is true. When was the last time anyone tried to adapt Willy Shakes “authentically”? They even did an Othello with Patrick Stewart where everyone’s but him was black. It’s fiction FFS.... it survives through adaptation.
 
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Ashley Young could do it, he was good in The Wire and hopefully he'll be giving up the football soon.
 
A black Bond could work with a slight reboot; not a reboot of the series, but a radical "changing of the guard", like in 85-87 (from grandpa Moore to drop-dead-serious Dalton in his early '40s). Idris and Daniel are the same age so it could work. I don't like changing the skin color of Bond just for the sake of it, only if the actor has British nationality and looks good as Bond: Idris oozes charisma, sex appeal and looks fit enough to crack skulls if necessary (and taller than Daniel).
So, resume: black Bond ONLY if played by Idris.
 
Who was your favourite bond?

On a purely personal level, Brosnan in Goldeneye is the top of my tier system... but all his other efforts are below several Connery, Craig & Moore films (I can’t remembet whether the Daltons are good? I just know Benicio Del Torro is in one)
 
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Brosnan in Goldeneye is the top of my tier system... but all his other efforts are below several Connery, Craig & Moore films
Am watching Tomorrow Never Dies - feck me it's the worst Bond ever. Shit dialogue and a terrible Dave Arnold soundtrack.
 
Elba could easily pass for early 40”s though


Is this the worst bond scene ever


Absolutely phenomenal stunt. But what the feck were they thinking adding that slide whistle sound effect? :lol:
 
Bond should really be a middle/upper class white Englishman. It's just the way the character was written. I don't mind if someone like Idris Elba is cast but really they should create a new film series if they want to do that, just as the Americans did with Jason Bourne.

The idea of a female 007 though? That's daft.
 
Bond should really be a middle/upper class white Englishman. It's just the way the character was written. I don't mind if someone like Idris Elba is cast but really they should create a new film series if they want to do that, just as the Americans did with Jason Bourne.

The idea of a female 007 though? That's daft.

Yeah, but made her faithful to the original character: good-looking/fit active heterosexual, even predatory. Men, hide while you can! (or not:D)
 
Am watching Tomorrow Never Dies - feck me it's the worst Bond ever. Shit dialogue and a terrible Dave Arnold soundtrack.

To each his own. I think Arnold's soundtrack was cracking and TND is still the best of the pure action-oriented Bond films. Dumb? Probably. Boring/awful? Hell no. I think Brosnan's era peaked with TND and after that it was downhill (TWINE, boring, bad casting), DAD (silly, reeking of kitsch-not camp, but downright kitsch-and overall just a 40th anniversary homage-travesty).
 
Brosnan is actually the way i pictured bond. Suave, british (i know), handsome, cool.

Bond for all his skills shouldnt be about muscle or fighting skill. He should he proficient with empty hand killing and fighting but i dont think he should he brawling like a full fledged martial artist

I personally would love to see a female bond.
 
That concept could work but the female character wouldn't be 007, she'd be 008 or 009 or whatever, so the "shock" moment of M telling "007" to come in and it being a woman wouldn't make any sense.

How do you mean? Do numbers not get re-assigned when someone leaves?
 
That concept could work but the female character wouldn't be 007, she'd be 008 or 009 or whatever, so the "shock" moment of M telling "007" to come in and it being a woman wouldn't make any sense.

Bond has retired so 007 would be available and the woman in question has obviously replaced him at MI6.
 
If we have a black female James (Jane?) Bond, a MALE character, then why not go the whole hog and diversify everything...

I personally can’t wait to see Morgan Freeman play Wonder Woman.
 
How do you mean? Do numbers not get re-assigned when someone leaves?

Hmm, I'm not sure about someone leaving tbf, but it's been established that there are other numbers in existence as we've seen 006 (Sean Bean in Goldeneye) and Bond talked about how if he's killed 008 will replace him when he was talking to Goldfinger in the laser table scene.

Actually him being replaced by 008 if he's killed would suggest the numbers aren't reassigned.
 
Hmm, I'm not sure about someone leaving tbf, but it's been established that there are other numbers in existence as we've seen 006 (Sean Bean in Goldeneye) and Bond talked about how if he's killed 008 will replace him when he was talking to Goldfinger in the laser table scene.

Actually him being replaced by 008 if he's killed would suggest the numbers aren't reassigned.


Or 008 would be bumped up to 007 if Bond was killed :smirk: At any rate, Goldfinger is not in the same universe as Craig’s Bond!
 
Hmm, I'm not sure about someone leaving tbf, but it's been established that there are other numbers in existence as we've seen 006 (Sean Bean in Goldeneye) and Bond talked about how if he's killed 008 will replace him when he was talking to Goldfinger in the laser table scene.

Actually him being replaced by 008 if he's killed would suggest the numbers aren't reassigned.

A quick google search tells me that numbers get reassigned when people die but there's no mention of retirement.

I'm sure it's something the films will happily assume to be correct if they want to do it.
 
A quick google search tells me that numbers get reassigned when people die but there's no mention of retirement.

I'm sure it's something the films will happily assume to be correct if they want to do it.

Isn't there meant to be a retirement age of 45 or something too? Roger Moore tested that one :lol:
 
I've rarely enjoyed James Bond. I've never read the books and haven't watched all the films but I do know ,from my little knowledge, that 007 is simply a agent code-name and not necessarily James Bond himself.

So once Bond retires ,or better yet blown into tiny pieces and those tiny pieces are collected and shot up into the stratosphere , the 007 code-name is simply reassigned to another agent . Female,male,black,white , y'know a common sense transition.

So why the heck is this so difficult for people to understand ? or better yet why the f*ck is it something to get into a tizz about ?
 
I've rarely enjoyed James Bond. I've never read the books and haven't watched all the films but I do know ,from my little knowledge, that 007 is simply a agent code-name and not necessarily James Bond himself.

So once Bond retires ,or better yet blown into tiny pieces and those tiny pieces are collected and shot up into the stratosphere , the 007 code-name is simply reassigned to another agent . Female,male,black,white , y'know a common sense transition.

So why the heck is this so difficult for people to understand ? or better yet why the f*ck is it something to get into a tizz about ?

Who's getting into a tizz?
 
I’ve subscribed to the theory that 007 James Bond is just an assigned code name too. I used to not have too much of a liking to Bond movies because the only ones I’d seen were the Roger Moore ones which were largely cartoony schlock... They were the only ones that made it on mainstream TV back in the day as the afternoon movie.

Then I saw Goldfinger when I was about 18 and thought it as fantastic, and totally understood why Sean Connery is the undisputed GOAT 007. Brosnan would be a very close 2nd if he had better scripts, but as such he had Goldeneye and then a bunch of mehs.

I hope they don’t go the woke route for the sake of it. If you’re going to have a Jane Bond, then make it a good spy thriller movie first and not some ‘strong, independent woman don’t need no man’ political commentary. People go to Bond movies to be entertained, not listen to someone’s manifesto.