James, Lingard, Pereira, Rashford: What do you expect?

[Lee565]

For good reason. Our defence was bottom half of the league level while our attack was top 6 level last year. The issue was simply selling Lukaku without replacing him (and Herrera in midfield who could provide balance).

But arsenal have a worse defence and will finish above us with their attack, we really didnt need to wast 120 million on just the defence, a good right back would have tied us over for a season and there was cheaper ones than Bissaka who have offensive qualities, we are still conceding pretty much every game so what was the point.

 

[Kush]

Those 4 Bournemouth players are good players, Wilson is linked with £70m+ moves, King has proved himself over a number of seasons in the PL (a 16 goal season is better than anything Rashford has produced) and Fraser produces a lot of assists.

Norwich haven't scored for 2 games since the freak City result.

Burnley have proven target men which we don't have.

Lampard's youngsters are taking the next step after proving themselves in the Championship (like Dan James is). With the added quality of William and Perdro around them.

Yes bring some more examples if you want?

Those names weren't posted for you to analyze what they have done or are doing, they were to back up the point the original poster was making. The likes of Callum Wilson are being linked with a £70m move because they are playing in a functional side where the coach/managers are making the most out of them and making them look greater than sum of their parts. That's why King, Fraser all looked potent in attack. Same applies for Barnes and Wood, the manager is employing a system which plays to their strength. That's why they are dangerous.

Put Wilson, King or Fraser or any of the names I mentioned in there in a dysfunctional side like ours and they wouldn't get anywhere near that number and look like 'good' players to you but rather rank average or not good enough like many at our club. Want to know why? Because coaching matters. And you just have to look at the stark decline in productivity of some of the better attackers which we've bought under managers (van Gaal and Mourinho) who neglected attacking play. But, you are one of the most stubborn posters on here so I won't engage with you further on this discussion.

What's funny is that Barnes is actually a very good player and not only plays a good target game but is fairly quick, makes good runs and scores a fair few goals considering his roal in a team like Burnley.

Even more sad is the fact that Bournemouth's front 4 is like twice as good as ours at the moment. Pretty dire.

Any player can look good in a functioning system. Just look at Teemu Pukki at Norwich, his history will never tell you that he'd be an efficient goalscorer yet he is for Norwich under Farke. Kelechi Iheanacho is a bang average forward, yet he was scoring at a regular interval at City. Many systems can elevate players to a level which they weren't at previously. That's why coaching in modern football is more important than ever before.

 

[Infra-red]

Pereira and Lingard are as bad as it gets in a United shirt. Terrible players who offer absolutely nothing and whose continued presence in the team is an utterly pointless waste of everyone's time.

Rashford needs to be shifted out wide or to the bench. He is not (and probably never will be) a #9.

James is one of the few likable players in the squad and one of only three players who actually performed tonight (the others being Tuanzebe and McTominay). In this company, I don't have a bad word to say about him.

 

[Alemar]

If pogba never plays well how long do we say he is good enough.

But we need a Veratti for a role Pogba is forced to play. Pogba is no Veratti (although vice versa is also true), Pogba is an attacking player and should be used as such.

Certainly he plays badly as a DM as he is not a DM at all. Still, everyone knows that he is good in attack, yet Ole prefers....well...Lingard as an attacking midfielder. What do you expect then?

 

[Leftback99]

Those names weren't posted for you to analyze what they have done or are doing, they were to back up the point the original poster was making. The likes of Callum Wilson are being linked with a £70m move because they are playing in a functional side where the coach/managers are making the most out of them and making them look greater than sum of their parts. That's why King, Fraser all looked potent in attack. Same applies for Barnes and Wood, the manager is employing a system which plays to their strength. That's why they are dangerous.

Put Wilson, King or Fraser or any of the names I mentioned in there in a dysfunctional side like ours and they wouldn't get anywhere near that number and look like 'good' players to you but rather rank average or not good enough like many at our club. Want to know why? Because coaching matters. And you just have to look at the stark decline in productivity of some of the better attackers which we've bought under managers (van Gaal and Mourinho) who neglected attacking play. But, you are one of the most stubborn posters on here so I won't engage with you further on this discussion.

Have you noticed that in the 'open play xg' table that you keep going on about that Bournemouth are only 0.33 ahead of us even with all that great 'coaching'? Potent.

 

[bosnian_red]

But arsenal have a worse defence and will finish above us with their attack, we really didnt need to wast 120 million on just the defence, a good right back would have tied us over for a season and there was cheaper ones than Bissaka who have offensive qualities, we are still conceding pretty much every game so what was the point.

Yes you will still concede goals when your midfield and attack is shite and when you don't have much of a system? Our defence, when fit, is actually very good right now. The point was to fix the defence that was atrocious. The next steps are to fix the midfield and attack. What is hard to understand? We had one of the worst defences in the league, now it is very decent but unfortunately Woodward couldn't do anything with the midfield and attack. That's the next step.

You wanted a right back to tie us over? Someone like Darmian or Dalot right? Nah. I like what Ole chose to do. Just needed a lot more because our midfield is unbalanced and our attack is a group of young players who can't stay fit.

 

[Kush]

Have you noticed that in the 'open play xg' table that you keep going on about that Bournemouth are only 0.33 ahead of us even with all that great 'coaching'? Potent.

I knew you'll find a way to weasel out of original argument and turn it into something to suit your agenda. I'm not surprised and I'm not having this conversation with you after this post.

But, before I leave just give your head a wobble that you're actually having a debate with me where the benchmark are Bournemouth who have a home stadium capacity of 10k and are outplaying us and producing better football on a fraction of our budget. Oh and do look at this table for both 19/20 season as well as last. Not only they have the data to back that up but a simple watch of few matches of theirs would tell you that, but I know you're not interested in having any actual discussion. Keep burying your head in sand, one day penny will drop for you.

https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/clubs/big_chance_created?se=274

 

[Bojan11]

there you go.

Then why didn’t he go for Mandzukic for a year or two. Surely better than the dross we got now. I’d take Ibra from the MLS back.

 

[Leftback99]

I knew you'll find a way to weasel out of original argument and turn it into something to suit your agenda. I'm not surprised and I'm not having this conversation with you after this post.

But, before I leave just give your head a wobble that you're actually having a debate with me where the benchmark are Bournemouth who have a home stadium capacity of 10k and are outplaying us and producing better football on a fraction of our budget. Oh and do look at this table for both 19/20 season as well as last. Not only they have the data to back that up but a simple watch of few matches of theirs would tell you that, but I know you're not interested in having any actual discussion. Keep burying your head in sand, one day penny will drop for you.

https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/clubs/big_chance_created?se=274

I haven't weaseled out of anything, just shown you up yet again for posting nonsense.

 

[Asger]

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I always knew Pirlo and co at Juve did make Pogba better than he already is. One of the most overrated midfielder in the world.

 

[Irwin99]

Not sure James belongs with those players but I agree mostly. Our entire plan for this season seemed based on the most optimistic outlook that the players would stay fit, that they'd hit the ground running and the youngsters would come in and look the part. Some of that might happen as we're only 7 games in but it's not looking good.

I said in another thread that I think a Manzukidic type player could have been a decent stop gap signing a bit like Larsson was in 06/07. An experienced player who even if he doesn't get goals, he'll take the pressure off from a paper thin squad. I mean Larson only got 3 goals in 13 games but it gave the club a boost that year. There's no excuse for leaving us with this squad over the summer.

I'm sure i heard Ole say in the summer that the club won't be doing business in January and now i'm hearing he might. Are there any actual quotes that he might spend?

 

[G_and_T]

I am not sure you can include James in this line of criticism. He is new to the PL but has shown more maturity and ability than Jesse and Andreas have so far this season. I think sentimentality is keeping Jesse and Andreas in the squad and they need to be moved on. One of the most frustrating things about Rashford is hearing him say he wants to be the striker, but anytime someone is crossing the ball in to the penalty area, he is standing outside the box, or on the wing, he just doesn't understand the strikers role. Fingers crossed they figure out how to fix this situation asap.

 

[noodlehair]

James and Pereira have actually been playing pretty well.

Rashford is extremely low on confidence, most likely as a direct result of all the shit he gets from internet idiots even when he has a decent game, and actually the same can apply to Lingard who isn't even allowed to go on holiday without it causing a tsunami of stupid personal insults from his own fans.

Why anyone would criticise Pereira or James at all at this point is beyond me. The pair of them are ridiculously hard working and actually stand up and want the ball and try to make something happen

 

[devilish]

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They need patience as well. Same with Ole, Jones and Mata

 

[redshaw]

Crap in crap out I guess you're saying.

I'd leave James out though, he's not turned to shit yet, there's still a few games to go to know whether putting on the shirt will have an adverse affect on him. He might even be resistant fingers crossed.

 

[RUCK4444]

Remove Dan James’ name from the thread title.

He does not deserve to be listed alongside the chuckle brothers.

Note to all: Solskjær was happy with these attacking options.

I don’t believe that to be the case, he’s confirmed they tried to replace Lukaku and I don’t think for a second Ole would have been happy to let Lukaku leave without believing a replacement would be secured.

Selling your most prolific striker and not replacing them is never a managers decision, responsibility for that should be placed on Woodward.

 

[meamth]

Well at least Pereira and James is more reliable when he is delivering the final ball situation.

The others? Fecking clueless. Rashford in particular, when he snatched that ball from Arsenal and did feck all, pass the ball back instead.

 

[JJ12]

In a perfect world Rashford and James would be on the bench or rotation type players until they prove to be starters.

And the other 2 would be playing for MK Dons

 

[romufc]

In a perfect world Rashford and James would be on the bench or rotation type players until they prove to be starters.

And the other 2 would be playing for MK Dons

What has James done wrong to say he is a rotation player? Why would you not give players a chance?

 

[JJ12]

What has James done wrong to say he is a rotation player? Why would you not give players a chance?

I think he's a very good young player with a lot to learn. But in a perfect world we'd be challenging for the title - does he start in a team challenging the title? I doubt it.

He's been arguably our best player this season - how many of the other top 6 teams does he start for?

 

[Noc-Z]

I thought James would come here and be a squad player to be developed and maybe become a starter in time. But things are so bad he's been dropped in at the deep end. And all credit to him, he's taken the opportunity brilliantly and is making those around him look bad. Which they are really.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Do people think it's pure coincidence that this is arguably the worst we've seen Rashford, Lingard, Pogba, Mata play for us and it's all at the exact same time?

Great managers get the best out of players, Ole is currently getting the worst.. apart from Dan James.

 

[romufc]

I think he's a very good young player with a lot to learn. But in a perfect world we'd be challenging for the title - does he start in a team challenging the title? I doubt it.

He's been arguably our best player this season - how many of the other top 6 teams does he start for?

yes if we are talking title challenge, but that is too far away. at this moment he is what we need because he gives it his all, up for taking players on. Hopefully he continues that way rather than what Rashford, Lingard have done.

 

[Dr. StrangeHate]

I don’t believe that to be the case, he’s confirmed they tried to replace Lukaku and I don’t think for a second Ole would have been happy to let Lukaku leave without believing a replacement would be secured.

Selling your most prolific striker and not replacing them is never a managers decision, responsibility for that should be placed on Woodward.

Well you don't have to believe anything, this is what Ole said:

“If the right one [had been available], if it was there, we would have [signed a forward],” Solskjaer said. “It was time for Rom to go. He knows that. He didn’t want to be here. What is the point in having players that don’t want to be here?

“And there’s no point getting players in that you’re not 100 per cent sure about. When you get players in, you need the right ones that are going to stay here for a longer period and that’s the long-term thinking we have to show. I cannot think, ‘I need a player because this is my reputation’. No, it’s the club.

“There were strikers [available], but they weren’t the ones we wanted. We couldn’t get the one we wanted.”


Ole didn't want the strikers that were available so it is his responsibility the forward line is what it is.

 

[Bilbo]

The fact is if we were to replace two first choice attacking players at City or Liverpool with Lingard & Pereira they would be hugely impacted as an attacking force. This is the reality of where the team is right now. There will be arguments made about whether we should have sold Lukaku (he wanted out - sell him) or whether we should have replaced him, and these are valid points to discuss, but the club were right to walk away from Dybala and Mandzukic would have been a Band-Aid signing not a long term solution.

The issue here is that some fans are being critical of the coaches that we do not look like a fluid attacking force. The counter-argument to that is that it is completely understandable given the circumstances.

 

[Sir Scott McToMinay]

The fact is if we were to replace two first choice attacking players at City or Liverpool with Lingard & Pereira they would be hugely impacted as an attacking force. This is the reality of where the team is right now. There will be arguments made about whether we should have sold Lukaku (he wanted out - sell him) or whether we should have replaced him, and these are valid points to discuss, but the club were right to walk away from Dybala and Mandzukic would have been a Band-Aid signing not a long term solution.

The issue here is that some fans are being critical of the coaches that we do not look like a fluid attacking force. The counter-argument to that is that it is completely understandable given the circumstances.

I agree, but why haven’t we brought someone in?
Could be someone on loan even, could be another up and coming player like James even, but literally someone who could offer something different and give us some attacking threat.
I really don’t know who is Ole referring to as “the right players”, but there are plenty potentially “right players” out there when we are so far from being the finished product ourselves, as a team.

 

[GDaly95]

James: Will be a good player for years to come. If we stay challenging for top 4 or worse, he'll be a starter. If we get back to where we want to be, squad player. This is the hardest one to predict, he would be class or a one-dimensional pace merchant or anything in between.

Lingard: He'll stay until around the age of 30 at which point he'll join a side like Watford.

Pereira: Won't last more than 2 or so more years. Will join a mediocre side abroad.

Rashford: Will be in and out of the team for years. We'll be 'waiting for the pin to drop' for years. He'll have good form and we'll say he's class. He'll have bad form and we'll say he's a waste of time. Ultimately, his career will follow a similar arc to Lingard's, but he'll make more of an impact during his time here and potentially join a better team than Lingard will have done.

Could be way off of course.

 

[JJ12]

yes if we are talking title challenge, but that is too far away. at this moment he is what we need because he gives it his all, up for taking players on. Hopefully he continues that way rather than what Rashford, Lingard have done.

Definitely in this team right now - he's our best attacker, which is quite sad.

I'm just referring to where we want to go eventually (title challenger) - our current best attacker would probably be best used as an impact player off the bench.

 

[Renegade]

I don’t believe that to be the case, he’s confirmed they tried to replace Lukaku and I don’t think for a second Ole would have been happy to let Lukaku leave without believing a replacement would be secured.

Selling your most prolific striker and not replacing them is never a managers decision, responsibility for that should be placed on Woodward.

He wouldn’t have given away Sánchez a few days after he wasn’t happy with his options.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

I don’t believe that to be the case, he’s confirmed they tried to replace Lukaku and I don’t think for a second Ole would have been happy to let Lukaku leave without believing a replacement would be secured.

Selling your most prolific striker and not replacing them is never a managers decision, responsibility for that should be placed on Woodward.

I highly doubt it myself but as fans we shouldn’t have to read between the lines for truths we will never know.

OgS is on record saying he was happy with the squad & that of all the forwards in world football the ones he deemed worthy were unavailable so he didn’t buy one. I happen to think if our scouts, board, OgS couldn’t identify a single ‘gettable’ forward to improve our squad they should all be sacked for malpractice.

The time has come for OgS to be judged by his words/actions; I can’t jusge his relationship with Woodward/Glazers but I can listen to the snippets we get from his own mouth & decide whether what I am hearing makes sense [to me].

How a man can come out & say something then have fans say he didn’t mean it is beyond me. He has to tow the company line yes but no one forced him to utter his words.

 

[Renegade]

Rashford should have gone out on on loan the 16/17 season when we had Ibra.

 

[Woodzy]

James is undroppable at this point. It’s insane - he’s a £15m player from the Championship.

The thing with James is that he has the attributes to create and score chances by himself. Some of our players, while maybe more gifted footballers, also need other players in the team to step up in order to look good. Our lack of midfield kills us for example.

 

[AneRu]

James: Will be a good player for years to come. If we stay challenging for top 4 or worse, he'll be a starter. If we get back to where we want to be, squad player. This is the hardest one to predict, he would be class or a one-dimensional pace merchant or anything in between.

Lingard: He'll stay until around the age of 30 at which point he'll join a side like Watford.

Pereira: Won't last more than 2 or so more years. Will join a mediocre side abroad.

Rashford: Will be in and out of the team for years. We'll be 'waiting for the pin to drop' for years. He'll have good form and we'll say he's class. He'll have bad form and we'll say he's a waste of time. Ultimately, his career will follow a similar arc to Lingard's, but he'll make more of an impact during his time here and potentially join a better team than Lingard will have done.

Could be way off of course.

I think only James and Rashford will be useful players here, I refuse to believe that the Rashford we saw in January was a fluke he just needs a bit of rest and then some luck to go his way so as to regain some confidence. There is a good player in there but I feel the pressure of being the main man in attack is getting to him and he is a bit overindulged by the management.

 

[romufc]

Definitely in this team right now - he's our best attacker, which is quite sad.

I'm just referring to where we want to go eventually (title challenger) - our current best attacker would probably be best used as an impact player off the bench.

It is sad because when he came in Ole words were he is one for the future, so us almost relying on him is very sad.

A club like Manutd to to away to West Ham and have almost 0 attacking threat is shocking.

I dont see the fascination of playing Lingard every game? He talks about off the ball, but we aren't all that off the ball either tbh.

 

[JoaquinJoaquin]

James and Pereira have actually been playing pretty well.

Rashford is extremely low on confidence, most likely as a direct result of all the shit he gets from internet idiots even when he has a decent game, and actually the same can apply to Lingard who isn't even allowed to go on holiday without it causing a tsunami of stupid personal insults from his own fans.

Why anyone would criticise Pereira or James at all at this point is beyond me. The pair of them are ridiculously hard working and actually stand up and want the ball and try to make something happen

Wow, your standards must be really low.

 

[JJ12]

It is sad because when he came in Ole words were he is one for the future, so us almost relying on him is very sad.

A club like Manutd to to away to West Ham and have almost 0 attacking threat is shocking.

I dont see the fascination of playing Lingard every game? He talks about off the ball, but we aren't all that off the ball either tbh.

Years previous I was a defender of Lingard in terms of him being a decent squad player - decent off the ball movement, good work rate and a knack for scoring big goals. None of that is even true anymore so I can't understand us wanting to play him let alone giving him a new contract which is looking likely.

At least he's young, so he can still improve.

Bite bitches

 

[romufc]

Years previous I was a defender of Lingard in terms of him being a decent squad player - decent off the ball movement, good work rate and a knack for scoring big goals. None of that is even true anymore so I can't understand us wanting to play him let alone giving him a new contract which is looking likely.

At least he's young, so he can still improve.

Bite bitches

I was too, and it wasn't even years, I was defending Lingard during Ole's great run because when he was injured we did miss him he was running around, linking the play and whenever he got the ball he moved it forward played one touch. Now he looks lost.

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

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Holy shit that's mental.

As for how many goals I'm expecting from them

James - anything over 10 goals would be incredible, realistically 7-8 would be fair for his first season

Rashford - 15 is his ceiling and that's including pens

Lingard - 5-6 goals max

Pereira - if he gets 5 I'd be surprised

Martial needs to get 20-25 this season or we're fecked.

 

[Snow]

Mane, Salah, Ali, Lamela, Moura, Firmino, Abraham, Mount, are just a few average forwards that turn into great or productive time players once their managers coached them properly. None of these players were that highly regarded, until they were coached.

What? Most of them were highly regarded. In fact all of them were. Everyone that follows talent knew about Lamela and Lucas before they were bought from S-America.
At 21 Mané was the best player in Austria when Southampton bought him and many regarded the purchase by Liverpool as a bargain.
Alli was a 19 year old that had already played 3 seasons of first team football.
Liverpool paid 30m for Firmino. He wasn't some 24 year old no name that they threw money at. Watchers of the Bundesliga were well familiar with him.
Chelsea fans have had high hopes for Tammy Abraham. He's 21 and has played 2 seasons in the Championship with more than 20 goals. Before this he just wasn't ready for the Premier League.
Salah is the biggest surprise at how good he is but this is the same person that Chelsea initially bought from Basel. You think they bought him because they thought he was average?

It's a weird bunch of names that you consider average but all of them were bought at a young age by big clubs.

 

[Jezpeza]

I’ve made a point of praising him. Sadly, he is associated because he’s a young, promising winger from the Championship that is now, by default, our best, fit attacking player. That can never be right.

I think he is going to be amazing. But it’s not right by him that he’s not been introduced slowly but is leading the line from matchday one. Not for reasons of quality alone either. I once read an article about how Giggs was swapped regularly with lee sharpe at the start of his career, to the frustration of many, because he was obviously better. Was apparently to protect him from injuries. Was then compared to Michael Owen who was played week in week out from 18 and by his mid 20’s was suffering recurring injuries