James McClean: 'Does being abused for being Irish and anti Irish abuse acceptable?'

[arnie_ni]

He’s the only one who doesn’t wear a poppy and he’s the only one who would be openly republican as far as I know. (Can’t think of any other Irish players who express an opinion tbh).

He wasn’t going to win any fans in England with the balaclava thing obviously-but there is another discussion to be had around that part of our history.

Fair enough then, I was actually of the opinion he wouldn't be the only not wearing one., but he was just the only one getting called out for it.

 

[Paxi]

He’s the only one who doesn’t wear a poppy and he’s the only one who would be openly republican as far as I know. (Can’t think of any other Irish players who express an opinion tbh).

He wasn’t going to win any fans in England with the balaclava thing obviously-but there is another discussion to be had around that part of our history.

The reason for that is, of course, fear of retribution. Most don’t feel that strongly about it as well.

 

[Eire Red United]

Self absorbed feckin idiot.

I can genuinely say I’ve never met a single person who is remotely racist towards Irish people. Just my experience I suppose, but I’m 35 and lived in Britain my whole life. He’s comparing his ‘plight’ to that of minorities who have suffered far worse for generations.

Just feck off and retire from your basic career James, a career in which you are far more known for what’s happened off the pitch than on it.

So it’s ok for someone to shout abuse from the stands calling McClean a dirty Irish so and so, but not ok if we change his name to Marcus Rashford or Paul Pogba or Mo Salah and change the word Irish to black or Muslim? It’s fine for him to get death threats in the post? For Neil Lennon to get the same?

Open a history book. Ever hear of the famine? Bloody Sunday? (Both of them)

 

[stevoc]

Not every Irish player was born in Derry and actually don’t understand or know half of what actually went on up there. He’s seen it at 1st hand so if he doesn’t want to wear the poppy he’s well entitled to do so . He mightn’t be the cleverest at dealing with it but he definitely doesn’t deserve half the crap he puts up with.

I was being sarcastic mate, was just putting out there what I reckon a few on here probably would like to say.

Basically for some McClean is a bad Paddy, if he just kept his mouth shut and did what he was told he would have no problems.

 

[Eire Red United]

Fair enough then, I was actually of the opinion he wouldn't be the only not wearing one., but he was just the only one getting called out for it.

Could be wrong, open to correction on that one. Only other player I can think of not wearing one is Matic.

 

[IrishMcD]

[/QUOTE]

But surely he isn't the only one not to wear a poppy?

Obviously an entirely different situation but matic doesn't wear a poppy for instance.

I'm sure if we dug hard enough we could find other Irish players playing in England not wearing one

Christ lad, i'm trying to understand you but are you seriously comparing an Irish man from Derry and a Serbian and asking why the Serbian doesn't get abuse in England?

I will say it one more time, the british newspapers all lambasted McClean the first time he didnt wear a poppy, it was discussed on tv....massive attention drawn to it, NOT BY JAMES MCCLEAN but by British media.As happens when an agenda is set, the abuse rolled in and has continued since. I am pretty sure the history with the irish is a lot more sensitive than Britians dealings with Serbia.

 

[Paxi]

I was being sarcastic mate, was just putting out there what I reckon a few on here probably would like to say.

Basically for some McClean is a bad Paddy, if he just kept his mouth shut and did what he was told he would have no problems.

That’s what it is for me, essentially. You’re good Irishman until you open your mouth.

 

[Eire Red United]

Don't understand? My bloody father is a a Catholic from Derry. I know all to well.

I 100 percent believe McLean is abused because he's McLean and not because of his beliefs.

I honestly think if another nationalist player brought this up and made it a talking point it would gain traction and something would be done.

Really wish Seamus Coleman or Duffy or someone would.

 

[arnie_ni]

Christ lad, i'm trying to understand you but are you seriously comparing an Irish man from Derry and a Serbian and asking why the Serbian doesn't get abuse in England?

I will say it one more time, the british newspapers all lambasted McClean the first time he didnt wear a poppy, it was discussed on tv....massive attention drawn to it, NOT BY JAMES MCCLEAN but by British media.As happens when an agenda is set, the abuse rolled in and has continued since. I am pretty sure the history with the irish is a lot more sensitive than Britians dealings with Serbia.

No no no. I said its obviously different he's just the only other player I 100 percent know doesn't wear one

 

[Red00012]

I was being sarcastic mate, was just putting out there what I reckon a few on here probably would like to say.

Basically for some McClean is a bad Paddy, if he just kept his mouth shut and did what he was told he would have no problems.

My bad !

 

[arnie_ni]

Really wish Seamus Coleman or Duffy or someone would.

And I think the fa would stand up and take notice and try to do something about it, or at least be seen to be doing something about it.

 

[Paxi]

Could be wrong, open to correction on that one. Only other player I can think of not wearing one is Matic.

Yes. That’s right. To be fair, to @arnie_ni not much was made of that if I recall correctly.

 

[arnie_ni]

Could be wrong, open to correction on that one. Only other player I can think of not wearing one is Matic.

That's why I used matic as an example, because he did create an initial stir when he didn't and even had to make a public statement to defend his not wearing of one

 

[Eire Red United]

Christ lad, i'm trying to understand you but are you seriously comparing an Irish man from Derry and a Serbian and asking why the Serbian doesn't get abuse in England?

I will say it one more time, the british newspapers all lambasted McClean the first time he didnt wear a poppy, it was discussed on tv....massive attention drawn to it, NOT BY JAMES MCCLEAN but by British media.As happens when an agenda is set, the abuse rolled in and has continued since. I am pretty sure the history with the irish is a lot more sensitive than Britians dealings with Serbia.
[/QUOTE]Don’t think @arnie_ni is saying it’s the same thing in fairness to him. Though I’d say you wouldnt need to look too far for the knuckle draggers who will abuse Matic for not wearing the poppy.

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

When did this obsession with Poppies start?

Feels like it's really ramped up to ridiculous standards in the last decade.

 

[arnie_ni]

Don’t think @arnie_ni is saying it’s the same thing in fairness to him. Though I’d say you wouldnt need to look too far for the knuckle draggers who will abuse Matic for not wearing the poppy.

I don't think itl matter to these nutters who the person is, if you don't wear their poppy they'll take offense to it

 

[Paxi]

That's why I used matic as an example, because he did create an initial stir when he didn't and even had to make a public statement to defend his not wearing of one

Most don’t have a first clue as to why Matic would feel that way too. Not that troubles is far behind. Most are hilariously uneducated.

 

[arnie_ni]

When did this obsession with Poppies start?

Feels like it's really ramped up to ridiculous standards in the last decade.

Honestly? When McLean didn't wear one.

 

[RUCK4444]

What?

He references all the talk and discussion there is about black players being called vile racist abuse and compared his own to it.

 

[Eire Red United]

He references all the talk and discussion there is about black players being called vile racist abuse and compared his own to it.

Whats the difference?

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

Honestly? When McLean didn't wear one.

I cannot imagine what goes on in peoples heads sending him abuse for not wearing a bloody poppy.

 

[Maluco]

I think the argument has too much nuance to be put to bed.

Most people seem to agree that sectarian abuse is unacceptable.

Most people seem to agree that McLean isn’t the best face for it.

But I think the nuance comes from the fact that there are those who dislike him as a personality and those that use that as an excuse to mask discriminatory beliefs.

Yes, he is the wrong face, yes, he puts his foot in his mouth, and no, he isn’t eloquent, but none of that gives anyone the excuse to jeer or berate him for his position, beliefs, or nationality.

That’s the crux of it.

 

[arnie_ni]

He references all the talk and discussion there is about black players being called vile racist abuse and compared his own to it.

Why is racial abuse worse than sectarian abuse (to either Catholic or protestant)?

Maybe that's not what yours saying so apologies if it isn't

 

[2 man midfield]

I cannot imagine what goes on in peoples heads sending him abuse for not wearing a bloody poppy.

It’s daft isn’t it.

“Oh you like the money that comes with playing in England though...”

 

[Paxi]

When did this obsession with Poppies start?

Feels like it's really ramped up to ridiculous standards in the last decade.

I can’t remember them on football shirts for that long (15 years maybe) but I remember them being worn by almost all whom recognised themselves as Unionists.

 

[Eire Red United]

Boring topic to be honest.

fair play to him for highlighting the abuse he receives but sure he has asked for it, for being vocal about where he from and what his beliefs are, oh and not wearing a poppy which I thought be obvious. How dare he, keep quiet and if you don't like go back to Derry

I really hope that’s sarcasm...

 

[Eire Red United]

You’re right, you are a self absorbed fecking idiot.

Got it in one.

 

[arnie_ni]

I cannot imagine what goes on in peoples heads sending him abuse for not wearing a bloody poppy.

Why do people abuse any body for anything.

I've never abused anyone for anything more than a shitty personality. cnut is the height of my insults.

 

[Paxi]

I cannot imagine what goes on in peoples heads sending him abuse for not wearing a bloody poppy.

It’s not just refusal to wear the poppy. He’s openly republican and people don’t like that.

 

[RUCK4444]

You’re right, you are a self absorbed fecking idiot.

Your right, poor James has had to suffer far worse than ethnic minorities.

He’s not racially oppressed, he’s took a stance that many disagree with and there will always be people online willing to overstep the mark. He knew that.

There’s a big difference between his complaints and those of black players being called disgusting racist abuse day in day out.

But he can’t see that, so that’s why it’s a self absorbed outlook from him.

 

[stevoc]

I take on board everything your saying. I think you realise now that I also agree its totally unacceptable.

But when it comes to sectarian abuse in football, why do you think he is the (only?) Main Irish player to get abused?

Do you not think its because of things like the balaclava picture, which of course was obviously intended as a joke.

I can understand people taking a dislike to him for wearing a balaclava, even if it may have been an ill thought out attempt at humour.

But that balaclava incident was what 1-2 years ago?

The guy has been receiving abuse going back to 2012-13 or whatever year he first decided he wouldn't wear the Poppy anymore. Most of that was driven by the disgraceful media articles about it at the time. So it doesn't all stem from that Balaclava picture.

 

[RUCK4444]

Whats the difference?

None, none whatsoever mate.

 

[arnie_ni]

I think the argument has too much nuance to be put to bed.

Most people seem to agree that sectarian abuse is unacceptable.

Most people seem to agree that McLean isn’t the best face for it.

But I think the nuance comes from the fact that there are those who dislike him as a personality and those that use that as an excuse to mask discriminatory beliefs.

Yes, he is the wrong face, yes, he puts his foot in his mouth, and no, he isn’t eloquent, but none of that gives anyone the excuse to jeer or berate him for his position, beliefs, or nationality.

That’s the crux of it.

Even thought I'm right in the middle of this misunderstanding, this post sums it up perfectly in fairness.

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

I think the argument has too much nuance to be put to bed.

Most people seem to agree that sectarian abuse is unacceptable.

Most people seem to agree that McLean isn’t the best face for it.

But I think the nuance comes from the fact that there are those who dislike him as a personality and those that use that as an excuse to mask discriminatory beliefs.

Yes, he is the wrong face, yes, he puts his foot in his mouth, and no, he isn’t eloquent, but none of that gives anyone the excuse to jeer or berate him for his position, beliefs, or nationality.

That’s the crux of it.

This all seems very fair to me.

 

[Eire Red United]

Wouldn't have any time at all for the PIRA at all, I'm a firm follower of James Connolly and Wolfe Tone, McClean would be a fairly well known supporter of PSF. Again, a debate for another day

It was the sons and grandsons of the men who fought in 1916 and for Collins who were fighting in the North in the 70’s and 80’s- same fight different time. So don’t really understand that view point tbh.

 

[Eire Red United]

I think the argument has too much nuance to be put to bed.

Most people seem to agree that sectarian abuse is unacceptable.

Most people seem to agree that McLean isn’t the best face for it.

But I think the nuance comes from the fact that there are those who dislike him as a personality and those that use that as an excuse to mask discriminatory beliefs.

Yes, he is the wrong face, yes, he puts his foot in his mouth, and no, he isn’t eloquent, but none of that gives anyone the excuse to jeer or berate him for his position, beliefs, or nationality.

That’s the crux of it.

Yeah pretty hard to disagree with any of that.

 

[diarm]

Why are we discussing his views on poppies or on singing? He's posted about his experience and how it compares to things like anti-racism yesterday and the issues he's raised are being ignored amidst a nonsense argument about why other Irish players aren't abused, or about how thick he is, or whether or not he wore a fecking flower on his shirt.

That is why other Irish players (/people/posters) don't speak out - because they know they'll be the thick cnut and the terrorist sympathiser the minute they do. There can be no sensible, rational discourse with a large majority of British people about their history in Ireland because most of them genuinely don't believe they have anything to be ashamed of in that history.

They have been raised to believe the thick Paddy, the dirty Indian or the barbaric African is not to be taken seriously. The savages they encountered on their travels around the world are fascinating in their own backward way, but they're not real people and their concerns aren't overly important.

When you do lose patience and attempt to engage a seemingly rational person on the topic, you're told to get over ancient bygones or that both sides were equally to blame. As if we don't still live on an Island torn across the middle by the aftermath of British occupation and divide and conquer tactics. As if neighbours and cousins don't still live in hatred of one another as a direct result of the same population management policies that Britain employed in India and Pakistan or the several other conflict areas they've washed their hands of across the planet.

As if we're not dealing with the fallout of a Brexit decision taken by people who gave not two shits about the situation their ancestors created in Ireland, in their obsession with claiming what was rightfully fair for them.

 

[stevoc]

He references all the talk and discussion there is about black players being called vile racist abuse and compared his own to it.

No I think I understood what you were trying to say well enough mate that reply was just my reaction to the ridiculousness of it.

He is still regularly receiving sectarian and anti-irish racial abuse is he not?

 

[Eire Red United]

No I think I understood what you were trying to say well enough mate the what reply was just my reaction to the ridiculousness of it.

He is still regularly receiving sectarian and anti-irish racial abuse is he not?

But thats absolutely fine apparently......

 

[Eire Red United]

Why are we discussing his views on poppies or on singing? He's posted about his experience and how it compares to things like anti-racism yesterday and the issues he's raised are being ignored amidst a nonsense argument about why other Irish players aren't abused, or about how thick he is, or whether or not he wore a fecking flower on his shirt.

That is why other Irish players (/people/posters) don't speak out - because they know they'll be the thick cnut and the terrorist sympathiser the minute they do. There can be no sensible, rational discourse with a large majority of British people about their history in Ireland because most of them genuinely don't believe they have anything to be ashamed of in that history.

They have been raised to believe the thick Paddy, the dirty Indian or the barbaric African is not to be taken seriously. The savages they encountered on their travels around the world are fascinating in their own backward way, but they're not real people and their concerns aren't overly important.

When you do lose patience and attempt to engage a seemingly rational person on the topic, you're told to get over ancient bygones or that both sides were equally to blame. As if we don't still live on an Island torn across the middle by the aftermath of British occupation and divide and conquer tactics. As if neighbours and cousins don't still live in hatred of one another as a direct result of the same population management policies that Britain employed in India and Pakistan or the several other conflict areas they've washed their hands of across the planet.

As if we're not dealing with the fallout of a Brexit decision taken by people who gave not two shits about the situation their ancestors created in Ireland, in their obsession with claiming what was rightfully fair for them.

100% lad.