Jason Wilcox - New technical director

RedStarUnited

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The idea that Southampton would get upset about a director wanting to further his career by joining one of the largest clubs in the world in Man Utd and likely receiving a massive pay rise seems a bit far fetched to me. Fans getting upset is a different matter, but surely no serious business people looks at this with anything but understanding?
Add to that they had nearly £100m in losses last year - and that was a premiership season so im sure they are even more in the red now. They will not let a guy take what I assume to be a high six figure salary for doing nothing for 12 months.
 

2 man midfield

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Amazing how we have the ability to nick very competent people from other clubs and decided to stick with Ed Woodward and friends for a decade.

Its like you have a gun and decided to throw chopsticks at a robber in your house. I know that sounds american but its true.
:lol:
 

padzilla

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It's fascinating that execs move all the time between clubs but when Man United are involved then the current employers insist on ludicrously long gardening leave unless a king's ransom is paid.

We should tell them to do one and move on without all this daft drama, until we do then it's going to continue. It's exactly the same that happens to us when trying to sign players.
 

r0663664

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I wonder how garden leave works. Does Jason still get paid by Southampton? I assume he does. If he doesn't, I guess he can sue Southampton as he has no income for the next 12 months. It is stupid of Southampton paying someone on garden leave for not doing any work. I doubt Southampton will hold out so long, they will give in and take whatever compensation on the table else Jason will walk after 12 months without compensation.
 

kaku06

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It's fascinating that execs move all the time between clubs but when Man United are involved then the current employers insist on ludicrously long gardening leave unless a king's ransom is paid.

We should tell them to do one and move on without all this daft drama, until we do then it's going to continue. It's exactly the same that happens to us when trying to sign players.
Agreed. I’m low key stunned how hell bent every club is to make everything impossible for us :lol:. Forget about players it’s just staff members ffs. They all behave like we are poaching their world class players for peanuts.
 

padzilla

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I wonder how garden leave works. Does Jason still get paid by Southampton? I assume he does. If he doesn't, I guess he can sue Southampton as he has no income for the next 12 months. It is stupid of Southampton paying someone on garden leave for not doing any work. I doubt Southampton will hold out so long, they will give in and take whatever compensation on the table else Jason will walk after 12 months without compensation.
Yes you get paid for gardening leave, I can't believe Southampton hate Manchester United so much they would pay Wilcox to do no work for a year and also have to pay someone else to do the same job while he's on gardening leave.

It's beyond petty.
 

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The gardening leave period would be a stipulation of their contract when they started their roles at the respective clubs. As far as I know, it is not something that can be thrust upon someone out of nowhere. For instance, my last job had a 12 week notice period, so to move roles I’d have had to sit at home for the full 12 weeks before starting a new job, but the feckers made me work every minute of that 12 weeks :rolleyes: Some senior jobs will naturally have longer notice periods and therefore gardening leave can be enacted when a person decides to move on.
 

devilish

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Our CEO used to be a banker whose got no previous experience in football whatsoever. We got a CEO whose been in football since 2004 and had gone up the ranks at both trophy studded Barcelona, City and City group. Our Sporting director had no previous experience in the job. We are aiming at a person whose been a sporting director with the FA, Brighton and Newcastle. Fletcher got promoted 3 times in less then a year. Jason Wilcox worked up his way to academy director in one of the finest youth academies in the country and then moved as sporting director at Southampton only to accept a DEMOTION at United to work as technical director.

Will mistakes be made? Of course they will. Football is all about people and people are devious and unpredictable. Take Tonali as an example. He was considered the poster boy of Italian football, someone with great passing skills but still possessing the terrier like character of a Gattuso. The guy left Milan in tears which shows a level of commitment that very few players have these days. Turned out that behind the scenes he wasn't just a gambler but he had spread his gambling methods to half of the Italian youth team thus rotting the entire setup down. However we're better of having the best in class then people who are on the job learning.
 
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devilish

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He’ll be gone. Loved Dazza but he’s not best in class.
I had many issues with Fletcher's role as technical director

a- the way Fletcher got promoted. He got a job and got promoted twice in 1 year
b- the role he got seem to shrink and grow according to what the manager wants. That lead to a high level of ambiguity which reached its apex when Rangnick questioned what Fletcher does
c- the fact that there was no one to mentor him. Our DOF and our CEO were on the job learning as well
d- A-B-C showed total disrespect to the TD role. Which is a shame considering how important it is

Everything surrounding the TD and the DOF role screamed of them being fake jobs who were meant to silence the fans from pushing for the modernization of United's structure

However there's no denying that Fletcher had done a good job in helping academy players transition into the first team. The likes of Garnacho and Mainoo had shown a level of maturity in their game beyond their actual age. He also dragged his twins to the United's academy and from what Howson said one of them could even be a potential WC player.

I think that Wilcox job will be bigger then what Fletcher had. He'll be involved in recruitment and at all stages of the academy. Fletcher will survive in a more defined job probably in doing what he's doing right now. Thanks to Wilcox and Ashworth he'll finally get the mentoring he deserved.
 

devilish

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Yes you get paid for gardening leave, I can't believe Southampton hate Manchester United so much they would pay Wilcox to do no work for a year and also have to pay someone else to do the same job while he's on gardening leave.

It's beyond petty.
These clubs are sensing our desperation in building a football structure as quickly as possible and therefore want their pound of flesh. Its the direct consequence of us neglecting such structure for at least the past 12 years.
 

Rauður Djöfull

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This is like the 3rd time this has been asked in this very thread, (and it's only 5 pages long!). It has no affect on whether or not Ashworth joins. They're 2 different roles.
Ok cool thanks
Sorry for asking what has been answered
Busy days so hard to keep up
 

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Southampton will play hard until they identify their replacement. Once that's in place a deal will be done for the remainder of his contract, they won't pay 2 wages for 1 role

I imagine similar will happen with Ashworth eventually though his profile may command a little on top and the Saudis may want to make a show of strength

I'd expect both to be in place by end of the season
 

padzilla

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Southampton will play hard until they identify their replacement. Once that's in place a deal will be done for the remainder of his contract, they won't pay 2 wages for 1 role

I imagine similar will happen with Ashworth eventually though his profile may command a little on top and the Saudis may want to make a show of strength

I'd expect both to be in place by end of the season
There's definitely an element of posturing from the Saudis in this. As much as I obviously deplore City, the way they have handled the departure of Omar Berrada was incredibly savvy in comparison, it's making me think we've made a mistake hiring him compared to Newcastle who are behaving as small-time and petty as you would expect.
 

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Agreed. I’m low key stunned how hell bent every club is to make everything impossible for us :lol:. Forget about players it’s just staff members ffs. They all behave like we are poaching their world class players for peanuts.
For years United did what they wanted. 90s and 00s. None of this is surprising
 

DWelbz19

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12 months notice is totally unreasonable in any case. 3 months is the norm for an 'executive' position.
Not really. 3 months is mid level management. 6-12 months is pretty standard for senior level directors working for entities of these sizes. 6-9 months is normally the sweet spot but 12 months can be justified in these instances.
Well yeah you can. As far as I'm aware they're unenforceable in practice. In my old job people would just feck off and we couldn't do anything about it. It was only two week's notice as well... Pricks
That’s… not true. A two weeks notice period (and most junior periods of 1 month) makes sense for a company not bothering to enforce a notice period but for a senior employee who undoubtedly has information about the company etc. which he will pass on to a competitor in the market — his employment contract will have restrictive covenants (things preventing him from certain things for X months after he leaves) and garden leave provisions — high notice periods like this are definitely enforceable. If he just up and leaves like that, the Employer could apply to the courts for an injunction against him and probably damages if they have proof he’s taken any confidential information with him at his new company.

You have to remember a notice period works both ways — you have to give your employer notice before you leave and they have to do the same before they dismiss you
 

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All of these delays of appointments will screw up our next season

Alex Crook just said on TalkShite that Southampton have confirmed that Coxy has tendered his resignation
What the hell does that even mean?
 
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golden_blunder

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Are we also still potentially getting Dougie Freedman as head of recruitment? That one went a bit quiet.

CEO: Berrada
DOF: Ashworth
TD: Wilcox
HOR: Freedman

Big step up from Arnold, Murtough, & Fletcher

Be interesting to see what roles Murtough and Fletcher play after the reshuffle.
Fletcher didn’t/doesnt do any of those roles
 

McGrathsipan

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People only care about loyalty when it's their club that suffers. Otherwise everyone is happy to poach staff and players from other clubs
What the absolute feck does that even mean? Loyalty my fecking hole.

Someone offers a man much more money to work in a bigger company and some poxy football fan starts talking about Loyalty.

Did his current employer save him from. Homelessness and put years of work into training and development and lots of money?
No they fecking didn't. He works there for a few months.
Loyalty my absolute hole.

Tools
 

DWelbz19

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It seems is different from the rest, clubs can force employee to go on garden leave. I see a purpose with contract with players because of huge transfer fee but why non-playing staff. Does clubs pay another club a transfer fee and sign on bonus? To me, it is just a job. Anyone can serve out their notice period, might it 1-3 months before joining the next club. It seems football employment policy is still very outdated. Anyone is free to leave unless as notice period is served, just like to current policy in most companies. Asking employee to go on garden doesn't work or expecting a compensation of 1 year salary.
Garden leave and long notice periods isn’t football employment law specific — it’s the standard for senior executive employees in the corporate world.

Garden leave will be a clause in Wilcox’s contract of employment. It’s very standard for senior employees to have this in their contract. When he formally serves his notice, the employer is entitled to place him on garden leave. The logic here is that, owing to his seniority and knowhow, he has access to a lot of restricted information. Rather than have him work his notice period in such conditions, they just have him stay at home until his notice is done.

His notice period is whatever has been agreed in his contract, it isn’t just 1-3 months.
 

padzilla

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Most cases of gardening leave are for senior figures at an organisation who might be tempted to go and work for a direct rival.

The gardening leave is there to protect against that. Of course, I have no idea what's in Wilcox's contract but I think you would be hard-pressed to describe United and Southampton as direct competitors, when they aren't even in the same league.

Gardening leave usually lasts between 30 to 90 days but in extreme cases there can be gardening leave of up to six months in place.
 

DWelbz19

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Most cases of gardening leave are for senior figures at an organisation who might be tempted to go and work for a direct rival.
Correct.
The gardening leave is there to protect against that. Of course, I have no idea what's in Wilcox's contract but I think you would be hard-pressed to describe United and Southampton as direct competitors, when they aren't even in the same league.
Sort of. It’s likely to have the normal restricted customer, restricted supplier, restricted business etc. wording — depending on his role and what he will actually deliver to the club, Saints could definitely have an argument he is in breach of his restrictive covenants and/or the confidential information he has access to could be used in his new role.
Gardening leave usually lasts between 30 to 90 days but in extreme cases there can be gardening leave of up to six months in place.
Incorrect. Garden leave can be the entire notice period. It’s just typical that it’s rather likely to be a portion of your notice period as the employer and employee will agree normally (or in this case the two clubs might negotiate a settlement figure).
 

padzilla

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When Wilcox joined Southampton he served a six month gardening leave from City didn't he?
 

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Thread title is a bit premature, although this one will surely get done sooner or later

Ashworth is a different situation because the Saudis may well dig their heels in just to feck us and him about
 

Ikon

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Football is a transient business.
Players, Managers, Coaches, Medics etc are always on the move from one club to the next, so why is there such outrage when United come calling?

It does make me wonder if these clubs would be just as outraged if Liverpool or City were knocking...
 

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I wonder how garden leave works. Does Jason still get paid by Southampton? I assume he does. If he doesn't, I guess he can sue Southampton as he has no income for the next 12 months. It is stupid of Southampton paying someone on garden leave for not doing any work. I doubt Southampton will hold out so long, they will give in and take whatever compensation on the table else Jason will walk after 12 months without compensation.
The point of gardening leave is to protect your business secrets and prevent taking the contents of plans and contacts to a rival.

Obviously the employee is compensated for that time as it's just a notice period where you don't have to work.

It's very common. In fact my employment contract has a gardening leave clause, though I suspect I would have to work the notice.
 

padzilla

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Football is a transient business.
Players, Managers, Coaches, Medics etc are always on the move from one club to the next, so why is there such outrage when United come calling?

It does make me wonder if these clubs would be just as outraged if Liverpool or City were knocking...
City made Wilcox do six months' gardening leave before joining Southampton.
 

Ikon

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An interesting piece about the efficiency of City's academy set up involving Jason Willcox,

"Willcox, was promoted to oversee the smooth running of what has turned into a title-winning, money-making machine, players who haven’t made the cut to thrive in Guardiola’s team have been sold for big money, in many cases purely on the strength of their displays through the age groups.
Last summer they sold goalkeeper James Trafford to Burnley for £19m, Shea Charles joined Southampton for a fee that could rise to £15m, Taylor Harwood-Bellis also signed for Southampton on loan with a £20m obligation to buy if the Championship club are promoted, while Carlos Borges moved to Ajax for £17m.
Sam Edozie, Gavin Bazunu and Juan Larios were sold for a combined fee of £31m..

They’ve made £150m solely through the sales of homegrown players since the summer of 2022; a period in which United made sales of all players totalling £70m"
 

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If he's got a notice period in his contract no...he can't. Hence why all the talk last night/this morning about said notice period.
Well colour me taught.

I always assumed you could just up and leave and didn’t realise notice periods were legally binding.
 

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Alex Crook just said on TalkShite that Southampton have confirmed that Coxy has tendered his resignation
 

Devil81

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Ratcliffe learning the hard way United always get their pants down.

We pay over the odds for everything.
 

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There's definitely an element of posturing from the Saudis in this. As much as I obviously deplore City, the way they have handled the departure of Omar Berrada was incredibly savvy in comparison, it's making me think we've made a mistake hiring him compared to Newcastle who are behaving as small-time and petty as you would expect.
City know they're in enough trouble as it is, I doubt they'll be making any waves with any clubs until their charges are dealt with

Particularly with regards to a man that will likely know where the bodies are buried!
 

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Are we also still potentially getting Dougie Freedman as head of recruitment? That one went a bit quiet.

CEO: Berrada
DOF: Ashworth
TD: Wilcox
HOR: Freedman

Big step up from Arnold, Murtough, & Fletcher

Be interesting to see what roles Murtough and Fletcher play after the reshuffle.
I wonder how long it will take for the fanbase to understand what Fletcher does in his role.
 

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Whatever about football expertise we should have no issues re gardening and landscaping around OT when these guys eventually do come to work for us, with all the experience they are building up.
 

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Yes you get paid for gardening leave, I can't believe Southampton hate Manchester United so much they would pay Wilcox to do no work for a year and also have to pay someone else to do the same job while he's on gardening leave.

It's beyond petty.
They don't hate you and it's not petty. It's a negotiation tactic to get some money out of your billionaire owners.