Jeremy Corbyn - Not Not Labour Party(?), not a Communist (BBC)

[sun_tzu]

At what point does your ironic anti semitic posts just become plan anti semitism ?

That would be when it's not ironic... And actultually anti-Semitic... You know like the labour party... (Cough allegedly)... Roll on ehrc

 

[Red Dreams]

I'm not the one forcing Jewish MPs and Jewish Labour members to leave the party

Its quite amusing how the Tories suddenly all love the Jews.

 

[Red Dreams]

At this moment, what matters is killing no deal.

I agree.

So Swinson needs to support Corbyn who is the leader of the biggest Opposition party.

 

[esmufc07]

I agree.

So Swinson needs to support Corbyn who is the leader of the biggest Opposition party.

Even with Lib Dem support Corbyn still can't get a majority.

Will come down to the Tory rebels who lost the whip, and they've explicitly stated they will not put Corbyn into No. 10.

 

[Red Dreams]

Even with Lib Dem support Corbyn still can't get a majority.

Will come down to the Tory rebels who lost the whip, and they've explicitly stated they will not put Corbyn into No. 10.

Their action will simply say they care more about getting Corbyn out than preventing Brexit.

I highly doubt their sincerity.

 

[sun_tzu]

Even with Lib Dem support Corbyn still can't get a majority.

Will come down to the Tory rebels who lost the whip, and they've explicitly stated they will not put Corbyn into No. 10.

Corbyn will get first crack (if he wants it knowing that getting less votes than Johnson might look very bad) then a compromise candidate... I'd guess Clarke ?

Even if the libs agreed to back Corbyn the best he will get from chuka and Berger is to abstain... As you say without the ex conservatives corbyns not getting the votes (dup certainly won't back him for example)

 

[Ekkie Thump]

Their action will simply say they care more about getting Corbyn out than preventing Brexit.

I highly doubt their sincerity.

That would be true but as far as standing on your principles go risking getting kicked out of your own party seems pretty sincere.

 

[Red Dreams]

That would be true but as far as standing on your principles go risking getting kicked out of your own party seems pretty sincere.

If those who oppose a no deal Brexit do not put aside their differences and stand together, we will get the result Johnson wants.
How does that help the country.

There should not be any pre-conditions and political gamesmanship.

I'm not holding my breath.

 

[Red Dreams]

We will have to wait for their manifesto. I didn't really follow their conference so I don't know if they announced any major policies (other than Revoking A50 if they get a majority)

I listened to Corbyn's speech at the TUC and Labour Conference.
If the Lib/Dems don't have most of those policies I honestly don't see how they can help people.

There really is no time left.

 

[Ekkie Thump]

If those who oppose a no deal Brexit do not put aside their differences and stand together, we will get the result Johnson wants.
How does that help the country.

There should not be any pre-conditions and political gamesmanship.

I'm not holding my breath.

Neither am I but I don't doubt that the homeless Tories sincerely don't want to leave Europe. It's just I'm equally convinced they sincerely loathe and mistrust Corbyn - perhaps even more.

 

[Red Dreams]

Neither am I but I don't doubt that the homeless Tories sincerely don't want to leave Europe. It's just I'm equally convinced they sincerely loathe and mistrust Corbyn - perhaps even more.

The hard Brexiters are anti immigrants first and foremost.
If they bothered to listen to Corbyn, all he is for is policies that help working class families.

 

[esmufc07]

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[Ekkie Thump]

The hard Brexiters are anti immigrants first and foremost.
If they bothered to listen to Corbyn, all he is for is policies that help working class families.

You won't hear any disagreement from me, but that's saying very little. The ex-tories think he's going to destroy the nation via smash and grabs on private property, self-defeating methods of taxation and create new cavernous black holes in public finance via renationalisation. Giving him the legitimacy of becoming the PM of a government of national unity gives him a level of credibility that makes such a 'disaster' more likely in their eyes.

 

[Red Dreams]

You won't hear any disagreement from me, but that's saying very little. The ex-tories think he's going to destroy the nation via smash and grabs on private property, self-defeating methods of taxation and create new cavernous black holes in public finance via renationalisation. Giving him the legitimacy of becoming the PM of a government of national unity gives him a level of credibility that makes such a 'disaster' more likely in their eyes.

I'm not disagreeing with you either.

That's the Mantra they have been selling...and people have been buying.
By the time they wake up it will be too late.

My point has always been that if you are going to oppose, you have to be For something.
This is where Lib/Dems fail.

But you have to hand it to the Tories.

Brilliant con men.

 

[nickm]

I'd say 'hmm, despite the questionable original source there does seem to be something here'. You'd see I have done that before in the various Corbyn threads over the years.

But my contention here is that you aren't interested in this because it challenges your view or breaks you out of an echo chamber, but because it perfectly encapsulates what you want to be true of Corbyn and Labour over Brexit (i.e that they're incompetent) to the point you're posting sources (or a chain of sources) you'd dismiss out of hand in other circumstances.

I posted it because it was an interesting allegation, was via someone on twitter - Daniel Finkelstein - I respect and who is pretty rational, and talked to the trustworthiness of labours desire to find consensus in Brexit, which is coming sharply into view again. So given that, I would like to know whether it is true. But you go ahead and talk nonsense about echo chambers (even though you are the one dismissing it on the basis of who said it rather than what was said).

 

[NinjaFletch]

I posted it because it was an interesting allegation, was via someone on twitter - Daniel Finkelstein - I respect and who is pretty rational, and talked to the trustworthiness of labours desire to find consensus in Brexit, which is coming sharply into view again. So given that, I would like to know whether it is true. But you go ahead and talk nonsense about echo chambers (even though you are the one dismissing it on the basis of who said it rather than what was said).

Eugh, fine. Yes, you're right, you shouldn't question any sources, nor think about what biases the people telling you information might hold, and suggesting that people apply absolutely basic critical thinking skills to what they read – let alone what they read from a former Tory comms head writing about the Labour leader in the Daily Mail – is obviously nonsense.

 

[Untied]

I posted it because it was an interesting allegation, was via someone on twitter - Daniel Finkelstein - I respect and who is pretty rational, and talked to the trustworthiness of labours desire to find consensus in Brexit, which is coming sharply into view again. So given that, I would like to know whether it is true. But you go ahead and talk nonsense about echo chambers (even though you are the one dismissing it on the basis of who said it rather than what was said).

So just to be clear, you think that it is more likely that Labour was wrecking the discussions than that the government came forward with proposals that were genuinely totally inadequate?

Also, I currently have a bridge listed on eBay, would you be interested?

 

[esmufc07]

The Sunday Times understands that internal union polling shows that the party is on course to lose more than 100 seats. The poll also suggests that up to a third of those who voted Labour at the last election could desert the party and support the Liberal Democrats. A further 10% are expected to switch to the Brexit Party, according to the data.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...fears-loss-of-100-seats-in-election-0psf2q9w6

Pidcock and Long Bailey the favourites to replace him apparently. Christ knows when Labour will next be an electoral force.

 

[sun_tzu]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...fears-loss-of-100-seats-in-election-0psf2q9w6

Pidcock and Long Bailey the favourites to replace him apparently. Christ knows when Labour will next be an electoral force.

https://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/next-labour-leader

Starmer..........5/1
Long bailey....13/2
Thornberry....10/1
Raynor............11/1
Piddock........ 18/1

 

[Fluctuation0161]

I'm not disagreeing with you either.

That's the Mantra they have been selling...and people have been buying.
By the time they wake up it will be too late.

My point has always been that if you are going to oppose, you have to be For something.
This is where Lib/Dems fail.

But you have to hand it to the Tories.

Brilliant con men.

Very true.

 

[Untied]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...fears-loss-of-100-seats-in-election-0psf2q9w6

Pidcock and Long Bailey the favourites to replace him apparently. Christ knows when Labour will next be an electoral force.

Damn, from the famously neutral Sunday Times too

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jan/02/labour-election-jeremy-corbyn-fabian-society
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...tion-wipeout-polls-suggest-tory-majority-150/
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...s-ahead-of-labour-in-a-new-poll-a7685271.html

 

[esmufc07]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jan/02/labour-election-jeremy-corbyn-fabian-society
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...kip-latest-yougov-poll-stoke-by-a7578641.html

Well yes all polls should be taken with a pinch of salt. Whether they lose 100, 50 or 10 seats, or even gain a few, they are not going to win a majority any time soon, which should be the aim, no?

 

[Red Dreams]

https://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/next-labour-leader

Starmer..........5/1
Long bailey....13/2
Thornberry....10/1
Raynor............11/1
Piddock........ 18/1

So which of these stand 100% behind the policies Corbyn spoke of at the Conference?

 

[NWRed]

Their action will simply say they care more about getting Corbyn out than preventing Brexit.

I highly doubt their sincerity.

preventing no deal doesn't require Corbyn, it can be done by anybody who can legitimately get the support of the house. Labour, and in particular Corbyn, lose nothing by supporting a respected backbencher from their own party, in fact they look great as they are compromising in the national interest.

 

[Red Dreams]

preventing no deal doesn't require Corbyn, it can be done by anybody who can legitimately get the support of the house. Labour, and in particular Corbyn, lose nothing by supporting a respected backbencher from their own party, in fact they look great as they are compromising in the national interest.

This has been discussed above.

 

[sun_tzu]

So which of these stand 100% behind the policies Corbyn spoke of at the Conference?

Piddock has her nose up corbyns arse so I'd say she's behind him... But probably not standing

 

[Red Dreams]

Piddock has her nose up corbyns arse so I'd say she's behind him... But probably not standing

The media always likes these popularity contests.

If you ask the average voter what his or her needs are they wont be far off what Corbyn has stated.
That is the key.

Its about principles and fighting for them. Let the other guy lie.

 

[Sweet Square]

@esmufc07

I know this won't make any difference to your views because something something Corbyn isn't a very nice man but well its worth reading.

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[berbatrick]

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[sglowrider]

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Project Terror?

 

[EwanI Ted]

@esmufc07

I know this won't make any difference to your views because something something Corbyn isn't a very nice man but well its worth reading.

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Not sure I'd exactly describe that as a comprehensive report exactly, but assuming its true it does highlight how reselection can be an own goal for Labour, from a publicity perspective.

Besides, while it may not quite be as dramatic as a left wing insurgency, it still puts the CLP in a bad light - that report suggests that people wanted her out because others wanted her job, which is a poor reason. I have no idea if Hodge in particular is a popular local MP, but generally speaking, if an MP is generally regarded as doing a good job by the constituency, the CLP really shouldn't be trying to remove that person. To do so is to assert that the CLP is more important than the electorate, which I can't agree with.

Granted, making a judgment about whether an MP is doing a good job or not is very difficult, and no MP is universally popular. But all the more reason to exercise caution and to use trigger ballots only in edge cases, such as where the individual risks Labour losing a seat entirely. From that brief note, this doesn't seem to meet that criteria and looks to be about internal machinations only.

 

[esmufc07]

https://www.politicshome.com/news/u...sh-labour-mp-louise-ellman-face-move-oust-her

Motion of confidence against a Jewish MP to be debated on the evening of the most important Jewish holiday, meaning she can't even attend

Well done Labour.

 

[sun_tzu]

https://www.politicshome.com/news/u...sh-labour-mp-louise-ellman-face-move-oust-her

Motion of confidence against a Jewish MP to be debated on the evening of the most important Jewish holiday, meaning she can't even attend

Well done Labour.

They scheduled the antesemitism debates at conference on Saturday meaning people couldn't attend as well.

I think the plan is if we just keep doing shit like this the ehrc can never finish their investigations

 

[Untied]

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This sort of comment would never have been possible before Corbyn normalised antisemitism.

 

[Smores]

https://www.politicshome.com/news/u...sh-labour-mp-louise-ellman-face-move-oust-her

Motion of confidence against a Jewish MP to be debated on the evening of the most important Jewish holiday, meaning she can't even attend

Well done Labour.

You know that has nothing to do with the actual party right? It's a local motion

 

[BobbyManc]

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This sort of comment would never have been possible before Corbyn normalised antisemitism.

What an idiotic post. Have a word with yourself. The idea that Corbyn is to blame for right-wing anti-Semitic conspiracies is shameful and it completely belittles the problem of anti-Semitism that you're pretending to be so concerned about. The idea that Corbyn has 'normalised antisemitism' also exposes the fact that you clearly have no understanding of the history of anti-Semitism on the continent and more specifically in the UK itself.

 

[Pexbo]

What an idiotic post. Have a word with yourself. The idea that Corbyn is to blame for right-wing anti-Semitic conspiracies is shameful and it completely belittles the problem of anti-Semitism that you're pretending to be so concerned about. The idea that Corbyn has 'normalised antisemitism' also exposes the fact that you clearly have no understanding of the history of anti-Semitism on the continent and more specifically in the UK itself.

Was that comment not facetious?

 

[Ekkie Thump]

What an idiotic post. Have a word with yourself. The idea that Corbyn is to blame for right-wing anti-Semitic conspiracies is shameful and it completely belittles the problem of anti-Semitism that you're pretending to be so concerned about. The idea that Corbyn has 'normalised antisemitism' also exposes the fact that you clearly have no understanding of the history of anti-Semitism on the continent and more specifically in the UK itself.

I *think* that was his point.

 

[BobbyManc]

Was that comment not facetious?

I *think* that was his point.

Yeah thanks for pointing that out, having re-read it, I've realised that I have made a fool of myself. My apologies @Untied.

 

[sullydnl]

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