Jesse Lingard will have an excellent season | Discuss in his player performance thread

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billybee99

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Well, with all due respect, that is a stupid way to judge a player.

Any one player - no matter who they are - only has the ball at his feet for 2% of any game.

Fans judging what a player does based solely on that 2% alone are missing the essence of team sport.. especially this sport.

Why on earth would you only base a player's performance on 2%? When in fact the other 98% is way more important. Discipline (and I mean this in terms of carrying out manager's orders) is the most important attribute any player at the top level can have. Yes, some of those orders come in the realm of that 2%, such as decision-making on the ball, but most managerial orders and indeed most discipline is done in the other 98%.

The unfortunate thing is; most fans don't pay one iota of attention to the 98%; they are only interested in what a player does during the 2% of the time he has the ball at his feet.

When fans were playing junior football as a kid, their coaches were only concerned about how they kicked a ball; could they pass the ball, shoot....

And now they can only relate their football knowledge to what they learned when they were 12-years old. They only judge players on what they do on the ball.

But that is not how professional football works.

Wanna know why Jesse Lingard is highly regarded by the likes of Sir Alex Ferguson, Louis van Gaal, Jose Mourinho, Ole Solskjaer and Gareth Southgate? Because his 98% is top-quality! They know they can trust him implicitly to carry out their orders. And wanna know why he is disregarded by football fans on internet forums? It's simple: they don't understand the 98%.
Oh sure. And maybe we're putting too much emphasis on all the goals that Messi and Ronaldo get with their 2% of the ball and maybe we should start giving out Balon D'Ors based on the other 98%. Then, the real talented players can win - you know, the guys that do all the important work for 98% of the game like movement and putting in a shift. Why focus on that real difficult 2% like putting balls in the back of the net and sliding players through on goal with great passes.
 

edcunited1878

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No you it couldn't. You can't have a #10 that averages 2 assists per year and challenge the big boys. Sorry not having it. As long as we have this guy playing in advanced positions, whether you want to call him a #10 or RW or a false 9, or whatever, we are going nowhere and we will be dipping in and out of the top 4. Just look at what City and Liverpool have in those positions and tell me with a straight face that Lingard is anywhere near that quality; he wouldn't even make their bench and even his biggest fanboys know it.
Did you not read the rest of the post? Not everyone has to be a scoring threat, but in United's case, because they are lacking goals across the forward line, Lingard has to be a threat like he was two years ago under Mourinho.
 

Greck

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His effort will be 150% and pressing will be there but there's really no way around the fact that he's going to be a heavily featured attacker with an average passing range and poor weighting on his passes. That alone will ruin many attacks. He'll be as good as is realistically possible for Lingard to be. I don't put much stock in preseason either. Half of this board wanted Shaw sold after last preseason and he came out as our POTY
 

Raven96__

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I really like Manchester united, very big club, but please allow me to express my opinion and say Lingard shouldnt be playing at a club of this magnitude, no disrespect to him, but I dont rate him at all. Sorry.
 

The Boy

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Why then doesn’t Klopp’s press or Poch’s press or Pep’s press have such a useless creator in their attack? And how do they manage to press so well when their attackers all contribute goals/assists also?

What an absolute pile of shit excuse for a below average player with above average running skills.
Um because Liverpool, City and Spurs have been better coached over the few seasons, they haven’t changed manager, they didn’t suffer last preseason and the first half of the season in a poisonous atmosphere where everything was going wrong, they hadn’t worked hard enough on fitness ..... etc etc

Everyone at Utd had a shite time last season, the season before when you came 2nd (seems lot of people forget that or write it off as it wasn’t a title challenge) he scored 13. Ole says he’s one of the best in his system, he’s a regular England international rated by Southgate, Mou rated him, LVG rated him. But for you he’s a below average player, fair enough, football’s a subjective game. But I think quite a few people here will be eating their words, Lingard will have a good season, I just hope he gets judged fairly.
 

MrBest

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I hope he does well, scores 20 goals wins player if the year. It just will not happen as he just goes missing in games, all he has is an epic work rate. I expect him to start the season and slowly be phased out.
 

Redcy

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If he scores 13 goals people will judge him on that, I still think 7 assists in 48 games or 20 goal contributions in 48 is poor for an attacker
 

ash_86

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He doesn't have the technique to be successful at this level. Also at his age this he's not going to do a 180 and start producing numbers. Ole needs to be honest and not use him much. If we are going to use players just because they love the club, then we're just going backwards. Give his minutes to Gomes and sit back and watch the magic happen.
 

SCJY

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I really like Manchester united, very big club, but please allow me to express my opinion and say Lingard shouldnt be playing at a club of this magnitude, no disrespect to him, but I dont rate him at all. Sorry.
Hmm... I personally appreciate your opinion, but don't you think it's a bit early to judge such a young player? He's still only learning.
 

KW2006

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What is sad is we don't have better option than him for the amc position. Mata too slow and lacks the pressing ability needed in this formation. Gomes and Greenwood still young. Sanchez not a amc though worth a try.
 

KW2006

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He should be a multi-use squad player who could fill the amc, rw and mc positions. Our problem is we lack better players in these positions. So, more often than not, he would be a starter.
 

ayushreddevil9

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I really like Manchester united, very big club, but please allow me to express my opinion and say Lingard shouldnt be playing at a club of this magnitude, no disrespect to him, but I dont rate him at all. Sorry.
You don't have to be sorry to voice your opinion, which is infact a very sensible one. A nothing player really.
 

dave1956

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He reminds me of John Ashton junior, played for the youth team 1962 to 1965 and the senior side from 1965 to 1972. A winger who in the youth and reserve side showed ability and always gave 100 %. In 1965 due to circumstances he became part of the first team and although he continued to give 100% in games he appeared to have difficulty playing at first team level. His best game was in the 1968 European Cup Final, where he came alive.
He played 155 senior games and scored 25 goals.
Lingard to me is the same he has reached a level where he is not going to improve, he may have the odd game where he excels but these games will be few and far between. On his performance in the last 18 months I would be surprise if he managed 10 goals in all competitions this coming season.
 

Gasolin

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I should become a professional footballer then. Bit of stamina work and I could press anyone 90 mins. This is so much bs I can't even believe I read through all this. Nice try though Jesse.

And by the way. His off the ball movement when we are in possession is pretty shit. Headless chicken with no meaningful runs at all.
People said exactly the same thing for Park. Yet, you need players like them. They allow the others to shine and bring something. Remember Park was a poor scorer too. But in big games? He would always play. Always.

For me, Lingard is the same but he’s actually better than Park with his first touch. His shot is a big problem so he could work on that but I think in games where we need to press and counter press, he will feature and be very very good.
 

Kentish

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Could we please not do this? We have ruined many a talented kids by hyping them up pre season and then being disappointed when they don't hit the ground running.
Humour is wasted on so many
 

Raven96__

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You don't have to be sorry to voice your opinion, which is infact a very sensible one. A nothing player really.
Hes turning 27 too, this reminds me when real madrid fans say Lucas Vasquez is young and learning when hes actually 28!
 

McGrathsipan

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We had the same shit with Anderson.

Hes got great potential... etc etc blah blah....
He was limited and had the odd good game.

Lingaard is the same as a player. But 1000% more annoying
 

Stadjer

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Excellent season for a starting Manchester United attacking player or an excellent season for Lingard as a player?

Two very different things. If Lingard scores 6 goals and 8 assists he will have had his best season ever but it is nowhere near the stats Liverpool or City players in the same position will achieve.

I know he is still a young and upcoming future superstar but he just doesnt have the quality yet.. maybe in a few years when he matures as a player.
 

Gasolin

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Excellent season for a starting Manchester United attacking player or an excellent season for Lingard as a player?

Two very different things. If Lingard scores 6 goals and 8 assists he will have had his best season ever but it is nowhere near the stats Liverpool or City players in the same position will achieve.

I know he is still a young and upcoming future superstar but he just doesnt have the quality yet.. maybe in a few years when he matures as a player.
Lingard best is 13 goals and 5 assists for one season. So I’m not sure 6 goals 8 assist would be considered his best.
 

Stadjer

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Lingard best is 13 goals and 5 assists for one season. So I’m not sure 6 goals 8 assist would be considered his best.
Should have made it "one of his best". What season was that? First Mourinho season?


Edit : Looked it up. One of his famous purple patches people as people like to call it. During the 17/18 season. Scored 7 of his 8 premier league goals and two of his 6 of his premier league assists between 28/11/17 and 1/1/18.

So he basically had an excellent month and very average season.
 
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Gasolin

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Should have made it "one of his best". What season was that? First Mourinho season?
Yes, Lingard can do well, but I think the real killers should be Martial and Rashford. They score and our team will be flying because Lingard will make sure the opposition never builds easily and will have to rely on long ball. And we will get the ball back. James and Greenwood to
come in and finish the opposition off. We need to score in the first half, as much as possible.
 

Siorac

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People said exactly the same thing for Park. Yet, you need players like them. They allow the others to shine and bring something. Remember Park was a poor scorer too. But in big games? He would always play. Always.

For me, Lingard is the same but he’s actually better than Park with his first touch. His shot is a big problem so he could work on that but I think in games where we need to press and counter press, he will feature and be very very good.
Didn't even make the bench in Moscow so clearly not always.

He was a lot better player than Lingard, no matter his goalscoring record.
 

Gasolin

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Didn't even make the bench in Moscow so clearly not always.

He was a lot better player than Lingard, no matter his goalscoring record.
And SAF already said that was one of his hardest decision. The player who
made it that day was Hargreaves. Same type of player, running and covering a lot basically, so the point stands.

And no Park was not better than Lingard, you don’t remember the caf at that time if you say that now... people called him exactly what they call Lingard, headless chicken, poor first touch, poor tactical awareness, and what not. But SAF valued him indefinitely for the big games.
 

Siorac

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And SAF already said that was one of his hardest decision. The player who
made it that day was Hargreaves. Same type of player, running and covering a lot basically, so the point stands.

And no Park was not better than Lingard, you don’t remember the caf at that time if you say that now... people called him exactly what they call Lingard, headless chicken, poor first touch, poor tactical awareness, and what not. But SAF valued him indefinitely for the big games.
I did not know that the Caf's opinion at the time is the deciding factor when it comes to assessing Park's quality.
 

Patience

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He didn't specify "in the league", but I agree. Considering he has 17 in his entire Manchester United career, the chances of him nearly doubling his tally are minute to put it mildly.
But crazier things have happened before. Leicester winning the league for example


What a load of shit
I'm now convinced Lingard apologists are flat earthers of the footballing world. No amount of evidence will change their minds, so it's pointless to even argue


There y'go chief;

Lingard was outstanding yesterday. Didn't score, didn't assist. So people like you probably won't think he was very good.

But his pressing (the best of all our front 'four') was almost perfect; and had the Chelsea backline allover the place.

Maguire was MOTM for such an outstanding and flawless debut. But yesterday, Lingard was the best attacker we had, simply because he carried out Ole's orders the best of any of them.

But because he didn't assist or score, you prolly wouldn't have noticed howbrilliant he was.
 

Loony BoB

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I'm a fan of Lingard and think he should stay. Despite that, I don't agree with Patience at all that Lingard was the best attacker we had. I think he was missing in the first half just as Rashford was not doing enough defending in the first half. In the second half, all of our attackers played well. I don't think Lingard was outstanding by any means. I still think he should stay, I think he offers us a lot, but I don't think yesterday's game should be something we highlight as brilliant. Just alright. He wasn't the best or worst player on the pitch.
 

Escobar

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There y'go chief;

Lingard was outstanding yesterday. Didn't score, didn't assist. So people like you probably won't think he was very good.

But his pressing (the best of all our front 'four') was almost perfect; and had the Chelsea backline allover the place.

Maguire was MOTM for such an outstanding and flawless debut. But yesterday, Lingard was the best attacker we had, simply because he carried out Ole's orders the best of any of them.

But because he didn't assist or score, you prolly wouldn't have noticed howbrilliant he was.
Outstanding? At what? How can he be outstanding when he did not really contribute much to our attacking display. He had a good work rate, did press well, had a few good touches but that's about it. Especially in the first half he was one of the worst players with Pereira
 

Chinese Assassin

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He reminds me of John Ashton junior, played for the youth team 1962 to 1965 and the senior side from 1965 to 1972. A winger who in the youth and reserve side showed ability and always gave 100 %. In 1965 due to circumstances he became part of the first team and although he continued to give 100% in games he appeared to have difficulty playing at first team level. His best game was in the 1968 European Cup Final, where he came alive.
He played 155 senior games and scored 25 goals.
Lingard to me is the same he has reached a level where he is not going to improve, he may have the odd game where he excels but these games will be few and far between. On his performance in the last 18 months I would be surprise if he managed 10 goals in all competitions this coming season.
John Aston
 

LuckyScout78

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I luv the boy workrate and aggressiveness. Reason i would choose him over Mata on the right side. Lingard is able to run a lot. Two thumbs up for that. His minus is the skill set. Might it just natural. Practice is one thing, but some is just meant and gift with the skills and fate of Messi. Born to be a winner and born to be a Messi.

I think max level of Lingard is just this. And its good ti have a player like Lingard in the squad. Sometimes really smart to find the space and without the ball.

Again, i like his workrate. He is definitely trying his best.
 

Maticmaker

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Lingard is one of our best players without the ball, especially his runs against tight/massed defences. Yesterday however against a team like Chelsea such off-the-ball running was fruitless and he didn't come good until he started to do it with the ball. The fact that both our centre backs are now capable of bring the ball over the halfway line without a nose bleed, should signal better times for such as Lingard as it forces the opposition out of their planned positions and gives him space to exploit.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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Jesse relies so much on his pace & stamina. Technically he’s lacking. It won’t be for consistent long run, there will be games he will run out stamina and not perform due to needs rest.
 

Eyepopper

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I can't stand him, I think he's a nothing player.

But, that said, comparisons to PJS (who I'd have every day over him) aren't fair when you consider the players they were playing with.

Right here, right now, Lingard isn't what we need.

Add all the SM bullshit, and ego (neither of which we had with PJS) and its not hard to see why he's so unpopular among fans.

Imagine PJS launching a brand, and positioning himself as a SM star - even when we were decent - and ask what the reaction would be..
 

Greck

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With the departure of Rom we no longer play a traditional CF plus complimentary attackers. We now use a more fluid forward line where each attacker has to be one of a creator, finisher, facilitating catalyst and/or decent ball carrier. Lingard looked like dead weight yesterday. And pressing alone can't justify the lack of contribution. He was also nowhere to be found when AWB was getting double marked. Does he run away from the ball or something? That would have been the least he could do to help out
 

ValenciaRocks

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He's 26 going on 27 ffs! He's not a kid anymore! aye

I hope he does well, he'd prove a lot of people wrong about him if he shows he can contribute across a season, not just in the odd game or purple patch.
I honestly thought he was 26 going on 28.... all this time
 
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