Film Joker: Folie à Deux (Joker 2)
- Thread starter SalfordRed18
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
They should call her character Lady Haha.
Stay away from Harley Quinn and Batman. Hopefully they will and in turn have a different story for once. Sick of those two at this point.
The Joker in the first film wasn't the real one?
I'm not into comic books but watch some of these movies now and then, so forgive my ignorance.
I'm not Anit-marvel but the joker was better than anything Marvel has ever produced. And it wasn't exactly brilliant either. Was a decent movie though so I'm looking forward to this.
Edit: A musical? Dear God...
A musical would be fun if they got The Killing Joke in without the nasty perverted bits.
As someone who had to sit through "House of Gucci" with my missus, I don't believe it.
Exactly
She was good in A Star Is Born and also decent in the American Horror Story series she was in.
I really wish the musical bit wasn't mentioned and was a big surprise once released and people attended it
Musical has completely killed any excitement of which I had very little because I thought the first film was meh
I can’t stand Lady Gaga.
I agree with that but Marvel don’t make serious movies, which joker was. As a serious movie, it wasn’t very good.
A lot of the best parts of the original film involved the great soundtrack and the director said that this Joker has "music in him" that he alone hears. It could be interesting.
The dirty aesthetic and the haunting music really made the first film for me, as well as Joaquin's acting of course.
The dirty aesthetic and the haunting music really made the first film for me, as well as Joaquin's acting of course.
People who don't like the Joker are the same people who think inverted full backs are a good idea and eat mushy peas
A load of shite would be another fecking superhero bollocks with it's paint by numbers script.A musical? What a load of shite.
It won’t be a fecking musical
Lady Gaga is an outstanding musician and song writer. She's also proven her chops as an actor.
Not surprised people in here don't see the talent.
Not surprised people in here don't see the talent.
Why do some people insist on splitting people into camps and tribalising everything?
People who like Marvel (any) films are bound to praise them because of that. As they are massively popular, a consensus forms that they are generally pretty good. That doesn't make you wrong if you don't like them, but you seem to feel you're part of some noble resistance?
Anyway, I like Marvel films because I like their characters as I grew up with them. I also like DC characters for the same reason and when they get their act together and make a good film, I appreciate it similarly, without tribalism.
That being said, I agree with what others have said. The more I think about The Joker after watching it and the shock subsiding, the less I like it. I really doubt I'll ever want to sit down and watch it again. I appreciate the cinematography and art design, as it did a great job of replicating the films of that era, but I think a good story can be told without resorting to ultra-violence. And ultimately, if you were to remove the ultra-violence, I can't think of a memorable scene.
The riot scene near the end of the movie was pretty memorable, no? Individual scenes aside, the quality of the performance from Joaquim Phoenix was extremely memorable. As far as comic book adaptations go this was definitely one of the very best. Streets ahead of the vast majority of films in that genre. Comparing it to the Marvel stuff isn’t necessarily tribalism so much as using them as a genre benchmark. A benchmark that it completely blows away.
Of course, we’re not allowed to speak highly of this film because it’s become a Magnus opus for the incels. Which is a pity. Because it’s a damn fine film and we shouldn’t think less of it just because odious misogynists also like it (for their own peculiar reasons, that have little to do with the quality of the film-making).
They probably doing it just for the monies. Guaranteed its going to suck.
I didn’t like it cos it’s sledgehammer unsubtle and ultimately little more than Baby’s First Taxi Driver, made by the director of the Hangover movies thinking he’s above the material, but ironically only proving he’s no Scorsese.
Its a shallow cynical imitation of the films it’s trying to homage. And I’d much rather a Marvel film trying to be unashamed fun than a pretentiously cynical and mechanical exercise in “worthy” film making by a hack.
Phoenix is pretty good though, sure. Could do without all the dancing, personally.
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I've never watched the original but I liked that the french gave it some film award because it scared some americans.
I didn't really like the first one. About as meaningful of any Marvel movie, but somehow tricked people into thinking it was artsy and intellectual.
Tbf I’d actually probably watch a Joker musical with Lady Gaga in it, cos it sounds like an interesting pitch, and she’s a good actress… but I don’t really trust Todd Phillips to do anything particularly deep with it. And he’d really want to, which is the problem.
Bingo.
The first hangover movie was good an’ all.
And this film is obviously no Scorsese. But I’m only comparing it with comic book adaptations. Which is an admittedly low bar but it still stands out from all the rest. It’s not very original but it’s well made, has an engrossingly seedy atmosphere and is rooted in a superb performance by Phoenix, (which the dancing doesn’t spoil). It even has something interesting to say about mental illness and the shitty American health service.
But apparently we have to hate it because a load of wankers who hate women think it’s a masterpiece? Feck that. It’s a good movie. Their opinions don’t matter.
what does it say about mental illness? Genuinely have no idea what it says.
Mainly how grim and under-resourced public community mental health services are. And how difficult it is for someone with a psychotic illness to try and keep on top of their illness in that scenario.
Not a theme that comes up very often in the Marvel Cinematic Universe.
In that sense and also the anti-rich sentiment in the film it's pretty funny that, if there is any message to Joker, then it's actually a pretty left wing one despite all the incel hysteria it sparked.
I’d argue the film positions you to feel like Joker is justified in his position and that the mental health treatment he receives is not seen as “under-resourced” but holding back individuals who are mistreated.
Maybe. Either way at least it makes you think about an important topic. Which sets it apart from almost every other comic book movie.
It does? I massively disagree with that. It’s no deeper than the latest Dr Strange and claiming that deals with “trauma” or arguing Moon Knight focuses on mental health treatment.
Yup.
The whole intersection of the culture war and movie criticism is so weird.
You get smart people with good taste bending over backwards to defend a completely banal blockbuster like Black Panther (which is admirable for what it stands for but a bang average piece of film-making) or a straight up turkey like the Ghostbusters remake; while rushing to put the boot into a movie like Joker which is objectively far superior to both of the above.
All because those are the opinions that members of their ‘tribe’ must hold. And there’s nothing worse than having the same opinion about a movie as incels or fascists.
I haven’t seen the new Dr Strange. The last one was pretty shit so I’ve no interest in another one. The most interesting thing about Moon Knight was the way it dealt with his multiple personalities. It could have made a good movie. Stretched far too thin over a whole series IMHO.
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@Pogue Mahone
Constantly insinuating that people who don’t agree with your opinion of a movie must be doing so because of some misplaced SJW virtue signalling is some pretty weird incelly behaviour dude. Chill. Make a YouTube video or something.
Constantly insinuating that people who don’t agree with your opinion of a movie must be doing so because of some misplaced SJW virtue signalling is some pretty weird incelly behaviour dude. Chill. Make a YouTube video or something.
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Meh. Some people can’t bring themselves to admit something is good because it’s popular.
At the very least the soundtrack, cinematography and Phoenix’ performance are excellent, even if the story isn’t for you.
I think there were some phenomenal scenes and can remember some really good discussions about mental health in the aftermath. I was a big fan but think it should have been standalone.
At the very least the soundtrack, cinematography and Phoenix’ performance are excellent, even if the story isn’t for you.
I think there were some phenomenal scenes and can remember some really good discussions about mental health in the aftermath. I was a big fan but think it should have been standalone.
The first one was just like a bad musical without the music. It was melodramatic, inconsequential, vacuous, had stagey set pieces, bold themes slapped in your face, garish set design. Joker 2 can stick in a pop star, some songs and the tone doesn't even need to change from the first.
A character grandly singing about where can they get some antipsychotic meds, wouldn't be any less subtle than the hospital scenes in Joker.
Obviously it would create a dissonance within a section of the fan base who wouldn't allow themselves to see the similarities.
A character grandly singing about where can they get some antipsychotic meds, wouldn't be any less subtle than the hospital scenes in Joker.
Obviously it would create a dissonance within a section of the fan base who wouldn't allow themselves to see the similarities.
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