I'd rather have a couple failed transfers and be propelled to 2nd than not spend whatsoever, spiral into midtable and risk the few good players I have doubting their future.
Jose Mourinho joins Sky Sports
- Thread starter Tom Van Persie
- Start date
He spent 500 million, did he? Calling anyone a cancer is out of order to say the least.
As for other stuff I guess you feel better when you can pin all of our trouble on one man.
As long as we don't buy right players we can all blame him. And tell me other than Matić and Bailly which of his signings we need to get rid of?
Maybe he failed according to you, but still did the most out of all managers after Fergie. It's not much but it's something. Also all what he said about the club structure seem true.
Strange thing to love.I'm absolutely loving the bitterness here
It really isn't.
It really is. Might want to get that checked.
I'm OK, thanks. I'm sure people in this thread need their bitterness checked though.
About their club being mismanaged? Seems a normal thing to be bitter about. Why are you LOVING supporters being bitter about their club being mismanaged?
Short term planning though
How often will we get away with 'a couple of failed transfers'? in 3 years we'd have a full team of failures.
I mean we could have kept Sanchez, Lukaku and Fellaini and we would probably have a better chance at top 4 than we do now but are they the players we want in the long run? no thanks.
If we add 1 in January then another 3-4 in the summer this team will suddenly look completely different. The main thing is making sure we get the right player in. For the first time since SAF retired it finally feels like it's a clean slate, we are back at square 1 after 6 years of bad decisions from managers to players, we aren't winning feck all this year and maybe even next so hold on tight its gonna be a bumpy ride but the end result is hopefully worth it.
Difference of opinion. Many neutrals see Jose as having done a good job while with us. Only bitter fans here seem to think otherwise. Ole is mismanaging the squad right now, are we going to see similar posts on him? Course not.
Zlatan wasn't a failure, and I don't regard Lukaku as one either (27 goals in his only full season under Jose's approach). Matic sure was a short term buy but did well enough for his debut season. I agree he's a stop gap and not long term planning however.
Bailey sure I agree, but not Lindelof. Lindelof joined for £30m and is a decent enough centre back for that price.
Ole's problems and failings do not vindicate Jose's period in the slightest. He spent over 300m on new players and left the team in disarray.
I really have a hard time understanding why most people blame Mourinho for what happens at MAnchester United (beside his history within a rival club or the victories he got at old trafford)
You blame someone that asked the club to do more to put the club where it should be. At the first here, i dont know if you guys saw that or if it was only in portuguese. But he stated everything that was wrong with the club, how the facilities where awful for developments and how it looked like the club simply had stopped in time.
You blame someone that was the only one to put United near their level in 7 years time.
You blame someone because he made everyone miserable because, has all of you, wanted more and wanted the conditions to do more and you all feel miserable now.
You blame someone because you wanted titles now but you didnt want players for the now but for the future.
I guess you all simply vilify Moutinho because it makes life easier to blame one man instead of facing the truth that your club is being run like a milk cow that is starting to become barebones. That is full of mediocre to awful professionals and in no way it's going to get better soon.
You blame someone that asked the club to do more to put the club where it should be. At the first here, i dont know if you guys saw that or if it was only in portuguese. But he stated everything that was wrong with the club, how the facilities where awful for developments and how it looked like the club simply had stopped in time.
You blame someone that was the only one to put United near their level in 7 years time.
You blame someone because he made everyone miserable because, has all of you, wanted more and wanted the conditions to do more and you all feel miserable now.
You blame someone because you wanted titles now but you didnt want players for the now but for the future.
I guess you all simply vilify Moutinho because it makes life easier to blame one man instead of facing the truth that your club is being run like a milk cow that is starting to become barebones. That is full of mediocre to awful professionals and in no way it's going to get better soon.
Mkhitaryan
Sanchez
Fred
Bailly
Matic (paying 40M for 1 good season without a major trophy no resale value is a failed transfer)
Lukaku
Looks like more than a couple to me (even if we bizarrely leave off Lukaku and Matic). This doesn't even include a potential failure like Dalot or his weird obsession with Fellaini. The best player he signed, Pogba, he wanted to sell. Revisionism won't change the reality of his tenure no matter how much anyone tries to do deny it.
2nd place, nowhere near a title challenge, and dumped out of Europe by Sevilla. Let's not purposely leave out important parts. Cheers.
Exactly. Very simple point. We have messed up replacement just like we did many times before.
Selective reading.
Which neutral fans think Jose did a good job? All they did was laugh at the club for how poor we were during Jose's time. Just because Ole is making poor decision doesn't mean Jose was good.
And yes we are seeing similar posts on Ole and it didn't even start this season.
I've a question for the pro-Mourinho guys. If he did such a great job at United (as he says himself), why is he jobless at the moment? Surely if he's coming off the back of one of his 'greatest managerial achievements' the big clubs should be queuing up.
@VP89, you mentioned above that most neutrals see it this way. Why do you think he struggling for work if this is the case?
@VP89, you mentioned above that most neutrals see it this way. Why do you think he struggling for work if this is the case?
Loads have. The sky debate the other day had ex players suggesting Jose did a good job. I don't think Gary thought Jose did a bad job. I recall a podcast by James Richardson suggesting he did a good job to get us 2nd, and so on.
Of course there is an undeniable outlook that he had made enemies in the squad and in the press and that ultimately was his downfall. I'm not disagreeing with that whatsoever and Jose himself said he should have been sacked. So I'm not really saying I disagree with the decision or even that he's free from blame.
I just find it hilarious how bitter posters are about Jose when he's speaking as a pundit, is spot on about his evaluations of us and they still cry about it. Whether they like it or not, our best since Ferguson was under Jose. Our worst since Ferguson may well be under Ole. Hate Jose or love him, that is undeniable at the moment and his evaluation as a pundit has no bias or bitterness towards us. And yet, many fans love to just be sour over it.
Lukaku wasn't a failure for Jose. Mkhi I agree and Sanchez was traded for Mkhi (but I agree nonetheless). Matic yep. Bailey sad because he was a beast pre his ankle injury and a liability post that.
For all his obsession with random players that didn't fit the fans outlook, he still did better than Ole has when he favoured the star players (ie playing Pogba selling Fellaini, sticking Rashford up top etc)
You find it hilarious maybe because you are a big Jose fan, for other ManUtd fans they criticize him for the damage he did to the club just like Moyes and Van Gaal did along with Woodward.
Overall they were, yes. I think that’s pretty indisputable at this point surely?
That’s your words not mine.
I’d be overjoyed with a top 4 finish this year. We have an, at the very least, unexperienced manager and poor squad by our own standards. With all the money Mourinho spent in his tenure it shouldn’t be, but here we are.
If your team is a couple of injuries from the level of Leicester and West Ham, how the hell can the standards be to challenge for top places, especially with the competition ahead of us?
In isolation I was very happy with being 2nd too but that achivement quite obviously fades in comparison to the events that unfolded afterwards and here we stand, a worse team than when he took charge.
The signs were clear towards the ends of that season that things were far from alright and the manager was quite obviously instigating and causing alot of issues for himself and the club. It’s not like no one could’ve predicted it either, we all knew who Mourinho was from the beginning.
I don't see him as doing as much damage. I thought what he did in his second year was phenomenal given the shit squad he had in year 1. People want to shout about £300m spend, the man spent over half that on 2 players because he had no striker and no proper midfield. Sure he made transfer errors on the way but he was a proven winner and his points per game was very good. Much better than his previous managers and def better than Ole. So when I'd be careful before we start discussing who does most damage.
For for all my admiration for Jose there's many many who have a cult hate for him. They won't see my view and I may not see theirs.
But back to the root point, I do take particular enjoyment from them being bitter about him when he speaks the truth.
The irony is that many posters now criticise Ole for not calling out Woodward in the same way thatJose often did.
Right. So many naturals see Jose as not having done a good job yet only bitter fans here seem to think he's done a bad job. Terrific logic there.
Of course it couldn't be that you are a massive massive fanboi of Mourinho's because why would someone whose loyalties lie with the club (and not a manger) begrudge a fan for feeling annoyed at their club being left in a pretty shitty state by Moyes/LVG/Mourinho (and Woodward of course).
Also aren't you seeing criticism for Ole? It's everywhere on redcafe.
"jose, why are you making everyone miserable. You should coach the players you have and shut up"
6 months later
"Ole, why are you such a yes man! You know this team can't do it but you never ask for more"
He's out of a job because he's now damaged goods, sacked at Chelsea, left Madrid by 'mutual consent', sacked at Chelsea again and then sacked at United. His philosophy is also outdated in the current age where all the top teams want to play progressive attacking football
All that being said while we would have always found it hard to really compete with City under Jose given the contrast in styles, things didn't have to go the way they did. Yes Mourinho didn't have to have his customary meltdown but then the board knew who they were getting into bed with when the appointed him so they should have been prepared to give him everything he wants or have it end in disaster. You cant blame Mourinho for his meltdown because that's just him, you can blame the board for deciding not even 6 months after renewing his contract that they actually dont like his style and no longer wanting to back him
With better recruitment last summer I'm confident a more content Mourinho would have easily got us into the Top 4, the problem is a large amount wouldn't have been happy with just Top 4 with Mourinho at the helm playing the style of football we did. But then those same people aren't happy now where we're just as likely to finish Top 4 as not and playing 'apparantly' a more attacking style so what can you do
Klopp spent as much money and built the squad that is miles better. Jose spent shit loads of money and the squad we have is not good enough.
You love people being bitter when Jose speaks the truth but for some reason you seem to lose it when people speak the truth about Jose. After spending nearly 400 million, he was fighting with teams like Bournemouth after half a season when managers like Klopp (apparently Jose was better) built a squad that was so good that it reached CL finals, won it and looks like a proper elite team. When Jose was having a wet dreams about Perisic, Boateng, Willian our rivals signed younger and better players.
His points per game was 1.89 points per game and IIRC Ole's is 1.73 points per game. That's 6 points over a season.
Ole is not good enough going by what we have seen, doesn't mean Jose was. Everything summed up when he talked about Lindelof, that CB can easily be bullied but somehow paid good money to sign him when players like Maguire went for half of the fee in the same season.
If Jose says club is not good enough it's the truth but when fans say Jose wasn't good enough and made so many mistakes then it's bitterness.
Caf logic is immensely fecked. Many neutrals see Jose to have done a good job during his time here, is my point. You have a divide on the caf where if anyone defends mourinho they get called a fan boy.
And here are. What a joke, suggesting a view is bitter is one thing, calling someone a fanboi like some sort of 4 year old in a playground is another. Keep it up.
The criticism towards Ole is not a patch on the level of Hatrid I've seen for Jose. And this is a man with a worse points per game than David Moyes
@JohnnyLaw, sure if you twist like you did by saying Ibra was just a stop gap whatever that means and Pogba wasn't even his transfer.
Anyway I dont get this obsession. He's gone but some can't let it go and he comes nice as a guy who's to blame for everything when we know problems run deep at the club.
Anyway I dont get this obsession. He's gone but some can't let it go and he comes nice as a guy who's to blame for everything when we know problems run deep at the club.
I definitely think Jose left the club in a worse state than when he entered. He always has had an arrogant toxic flavor to him, never lasting more than 3 seasons at a club, elevating himself over the clubs. He has shown that he is the perfect short term solution for any club that wants trophies right away, but has pretty much left every club he has managed post Porto in a worse state than he entered. Always toxic, always controversial. He does have an effective approach to football though, almost perfected his approach to the game with his "boring"defensive, no risk playing style, not winning the fans over, but gets the narrow results you need to get 2nd in the league and win a couple of cups with a decent, but not great squad. Not the attractive attacking style we want to play. Add that to the fact that he always manage to wear out his surroundings with his toxic personality, he should be a no go for any club with long term ambitions.
I can stand behind this though.
Pogba was his transfer but we have seen many times that Jose fans saying Pogba was club signing and was signed because of marketing. Nonsense obviously but which player was signed by whom is always twisted to suit the narrative.
True.
David Moyes - 34 games - 57 points - 1.67 ppg
Ole - 27 games - 48 points - 1.77 ppg
Jose got more hatred as he was the biggest cnut to ever manager the club and also one of the biggest cnut in football.
So, personal reasons and not really football reasons. It figures, after that sevilla game press conference people really did everything to get him out. People being mad because of getting eliminated of the champions league.
Really bad times. Getting in 2nd place, doing some games on UCL, getting to the FA cup final.
Now the club is way better. At least Ole isnt a cnut
Regarding this debate don't care for Klopp, him having done a better job than Jose doesn't mean Jose didn't do a good job given what he walked into with us. Klopp simply performed on an unbelievable level that any other top manager (Conte, Allegri, Simeone, Sarri etc) would have massively struggled to replicate. Klopp also had a year head start on Jose, which helps when you're trying to mould a squad and philosophy your own way.
From Opta - Ole's first 27 league games with man utd yielded the same points exactly (48) as Jose's Last 27 league games as manager. I'd like to know what Jose's overall points per game was with United across the 3 years. Jose's overall win % for us was 58%. How much has Ole's been since becoming perm? How much do you think hel end on for this season? Also, I never initially posted here to compare Jose to Ole. I just took pleasure in seeing bitter fans complain about Jose when he's not even manager anymore and spoke a good analysis on the weekend. Others brought Ole into this, I'm just continuing the question.
That's not what they're saying though. They hate him evaluating his view as a pundit. Which is beyond stupid because everything he says is spot on. Yeah he made transfer errors. That doesn't mean he shouldn't evaluate the club and speak the truth. He's not coming and saying how great he was in the transfer market for fecksake.
Again confusing with the logic. Replacement being bad doesn't mean Jose was good.
Doesn't sound bitter at all
So you don't care what other manager who was apparently not better than Jose achieved but want everyone to believe 2nd place finish which was closer to 6th place than 1st is some miraculous achievement. Jose being the best among the managers we had since SAF is like getting award as the most handsome man in burnt ward. All the managers we hired after SAF have failed, just each had different level of failures.
Why since becoming permanent? Did anyone else started to manage the club? While we are at it, check the points per game once Jose had his regular meltdown. Jose achieved 1.89 points per game, Ole achieved 1.77 points per game.
Jose had 58.3% win percentage overall, Ole has 52.8.
In league Jose has 53.7%, Ole has 51.8%
I still don't understand how any ManUtd fans can't see why fans are bitter towards Jose and other managers/people who have destroyed this club. He is a master salesman though, sells his bs like no one else and people will lap it up.
What? Saying he was the biggest cnut is being bitter? Do you want me to post all the articles highlighting all the cnutish things he did?
Jose was a wrong fit for the clubs at the best of times, but certainly given the nature of the club when he was here.
Under the circumstances he did a decent job finishing second and winning a couple of trophies, but his style was never going to sit well.
For those asking why he's unemployed, it simply because not many top jobs have come up.
If people think he's not going to end up at a top European club then you're mental. I'm almost certain he'll be the next Madrid manager.
Under the circumstances he did a decent job finishing second and winning a couple of trophies, but his style was never going to sit well.
For those asking why he's unemployed, it simply because not many top jobs have come up.
If people think he's not going to end up at a top European club then you're mental. I'm almost certain he'll be the next Madrid manager.
You are right, Jose destroyed the club. Players where shackled by Jose system and if he left all would be great and full of wins. Guess not. But well, lets blame all the managers, ever on the club.
Have you ever tought that maybe, just maybe, the managers aren't the real problem?
Have you ever tought that being miserable like you are is the same that Jose was when he had is "meltdown"? I hope we dont see United failing over and over again and people keep blaming the managers. Denial it's really something