Jose Mourinho Sack Watch

balaks

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Different with Mourinho, from Chelsea perspective at least, the way he treated Eva and his general downfall in 15/16 was a disgrace. I fell pretty positive about all our ex managers back to Hoddle when first went to a game, only Mourinho is the exception.

Levy has made a massive mistake hiring him and Spurs fans will ultimately regret Mourinho as much as most Utd and Chelsea fans do.
I'm not just talking about Jose though - you still get lots of stuff written in here about Moyes, LVG, C Ronaldo (how many years ago did he leave?), etc., etc. it's a bit odd.
 

DoomSlayer

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I'm not just talking about Jose though - you still get lots of stuff written in here about Moyes, LVG, C Ronaldo (how many years ago did he leave?), etc., etc. it's a bit odd.
Our fanbase and history is infinitely bigger than Tottenham's, it's not surprising that you don't get it.
 

roonster09

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I'm not just talking about Jose though - you still get lots of stuff written in here about Moyes, LVG, C Ronaldo (how many years ago did he leave?), etc., etc. it's a bit odd.
Van Gaal barely gets a mention unless its about ex ManUtd managers topic. Ronaldo is one of our best ever players and this is a huge football forum where most of the leagues are discussed. We have huge threads for players who never played for Manutd too and also from some poor leagues.

There isn't restriction here on threads, usually there will be in other forums where everything is discussed in single thread and most of the time there is barely any discussion about other leagues.
 

FrankDrebin

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I find it odd that Manchester United fans talk about their previous managers too.
What I find stranger is they're talking about these previous managers on a forum dedicated to the United fanbase.
It's just so weeeeeeeeeeiiiiiiiiiirrrrrrrrrrrrrd.
 

cyberman

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Unfortunately that appears to be true. You guys are all a bit odd if you don't mind me saying - generally the obsession with ex-players and ex-managers is way more pronounced here than in any other football forum I've ever been on. I honestly don't know why that is.
This forum will rip itself apart if Pogba leaves this summer and is a success elsewhere.
Too many people want to win arguments on here and it never stops
 

ArjenIsM3

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They played the same 12 months ago under Pochettino though

That's just a natural byproduct of having Sissoko and Winks as your only midfield options. Injuries meant José also hasn't been able to field a midfield capable of moving the ball. Or protect the defence in transition

They one real difference is they press less and lower on the pitch than last season(but then they already were under Poch this season), though not by much
Spurs have a plethora of midfield options. Lo Celso, Ndombele, Alli, Dier, Winks, Sissoko.
 

Vault Dweller

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I think Sick Boy sums him up pretty well:



Sick Boy : It's certainly a phenomenon in all walks of life.

Mark "Rent-boy" Renton : What do you mean?

Sick Boy : Well, at one time, you've got it, and then you lose it, and it's gone forever. All walks of life: George Best, for example. Had it, lost it. Or David Bowie, or Lou Reed...

Mark "Rent-boy" Renton : Some of his solo stuff's not bad.

Sick Boy : No, it's not bad, but it's not great either. And in your heart you kind of know that although it sounds all right, it's actually just shite.

Mark "Rent-boy" Renton : So who else?

Sick Boy : Charlie Nicholas, David Niven, Malcolm McLaren, Elvis Presley...

Mark "Rent-boy" Renton : OK, OK, so what's the point you're trying to make?

Sick Boy : All I'm trying to do is help you understand that The Name of The Rose is merely a blip on an otherwise uninterrupted downward trajectory.

Mark "Rent-boy" Renton : What about The Untouchables?

Sick Boy : I don't rate that at all.

Mark "Rent-boy" Renton : Despite the Academy Award?

Sick Boy : That means feck all. Its a sympathy vote.

Mark "Rent-boy" Renton : Right. So we all get old and then we can't hack it anymore. Is that it?

Sick Boy : Yeah.

Mark "Rent-boy" Renton : That's your theory?

Sick Boy : Yeah. Beautifully fecking illustrated
Love that scene.
 

AR87

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So? We had 0 shots against alkmar. Ole out?
It's not about that to me. It's the utterly negative setup, and that even if you are going to play on the counter, try to play it through the lines, don't just hoof it long.

Ole has his own issues, but we've been much better as a counterattacking team than we were under Jose and generally we try to keep the ball, we often just suck at doing anything with it. Even when he has the better side, Jose seems too focused on trying to nullify the opposition instead of showing any interest in attempting to take the game to them.
 

Dec9003

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It could seem like a massive achievement if it weren't for context. It was 3 points between 14th and 5th when he started. Utd was 2 points ahead of Tottenham at the time:



However, the gap between Tottenham and Chelsea was 12 points, so yes he did catch up with them:



Nevertheless, United have also closed the gap to 4th from 10 points to 3 points. Yet according to many Caf posters, Ole is a very poor manager having a very poor season. Based upon that, my conclusion would be that neither Jose nor Ole have done anything remarkable. Chelsea deserves lone credit for being very underwhelming.

In comparison to his last 14 PL games for United before his dismissal, he has gained 3 more points during his first 14 PL games for Tottenham:



I'm not sure if that's a good sign or not. On the one hand, Spurs supporters will probably understandably argue that he has managed to steady the ship. On the other hand, United supporters wouldn't be wrong to argue that his performance is hardly better than in his final months at United.

I feel like it's too early to judge and a lot will depend on the performance of the other teams competing for the CL qualification. I think he will struggle if other teams manage to build some momentum like I hope United will. But if it goes down to the wire I wouldn't be completely surprised to see him pull off an old Mourinho and prove many of us naysayers wrong. Either way, I think he's a fascinating character and I am pleased that he's still around.
So the context shows he’s doing a good job then? Made up 11 points on the fourth place team which given how they were doing this season under Poch is impressive.
The context certainly doesn’t take away from their decent form post Poch.
 

Dec9003

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I'm not just talking about Jose though - you still get lots of stuff written in here about Moyes, LVG, C Ronaldo (how many years ago did he leave?), etc., etc. it's a bit odd.
It’s nothing to do with being obsessed with anybody.
This football forum is bigger than just being about United, the football forum part is about just that, all things football.
It’s not surprising that big figures in football (Jose, Ronaldo) are being discussed.
There’s also active threads on Barca, Nagelsmann, Crouch, Morelos etc.
Put it this way, if the forum didn’t have this section to talk about all things football, you likely wouldn’t be on here at all.
 

DoomSlayer

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Still none the wiser sorry.
It's not your fault, don't worry.

There aren't many Spurs fans that would want to discuss whether Pavlyuchenko was a flop or if Juande Ramos should have been given more time. It's just the natural state for you guys anyway.
 

Valar Morghulis

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It's not your fault, don't worry.

There aren't many Spurs fans that would want to discuss whether Pavlyuchenko was a flop or if Juande Ramos should have been given more time. It's just the natural state for you guys anyway.
Now that's a blast from the past, I completely forgot he existed :lol: He wasn''t a flop was he? I used to really like him.
 

balaks

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It’s nothing to do with being obsessed with anybody.
This football forum is bigger than just being about United, the football forum part is about just that, all things football.
It’s not surprising that big figures in football (Jose, Ronaldo) are being discussed.
There’s also active threads on Barca, Nagelsmann, Crouch, Morelos etc.
Put it this way, if the forum didn’t have this section to talk about all things football, you likely wouldn’t be on here at all.
That is a fair point.
 

André Dominguez

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Well with Poch I had plenty of evidence to draw my opinions on. I'm happy with how things are going with Jose at the moment because the squad is fecked and has been since before he came in, we have been extremely unlucky with injuries also and it is clear we need a big refresh of the squad which he won't get the chance to do properly till the summer. This season is all about doing as well as we can and aiming for top 5, FA cup, etc. Right now he is doing about as well as could be expected under the circumstances which we find ourselves.

I would be fine with people making comments about it being a disaster if in 6 months time we have not improved - then fair enough because I'll be also unhappy - but at the moment it is clear we are struggling badly and I don't think that is down to Jose at all. In fact I think he has done a good job at moving us up the table.
I think he will make a good job next season. Tottenham will be battling for top 4, that's almost granted. I really think his new staff appointments were great: Sacramento is a bright "young" assistant that immediatly started working at high profile jobs and Nuno Santos is highly rated goalkeeper coach to the point he received offers from Benfica at least, but eventually moved to Lille.

The other two staff members are "usuals". Carlos Lalin is a worldwide reference in terms of high performance fitness training and Giovanni Cerra can make a good impact if there is a strong Department of Football structure

Also, people underestimate how much impact does the transfers make, which can be a problem bigger than one would think.

When a manager changes the squad engineering and the guys who joined the club are not delivering, it brings the odds that this can create a lethargy in the squad because there was a plan counting that player X could deliver a pre-determined end product, but it's not happening which can cause several issues.
 

Kag

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I think Sick Boy sums him up pretty well:



Sick Boy : It's certainly a phenomenon in all walks of life.

Mark "Rent-boy" Renton : What do you mean?

Sick Boy : Well, at one time, you've got it, and then you lose it, and it's gone forever. All walks of life: George Best, for example. Had it, lost it. Or David Bowie, or Lou Reed...

Mark "Rent-boy" Renton : Some of his solo stuff's not bad.

Sick Boy : No, it's not bad, but it's not great either. And in your heart you kind of know that although it sounds all right, it's actually just shite.

Mark "Rent-boy" Renton : So who else?

Sick Boy : Charlie Nicholas, David Niven, Malcolm McLaren, Elvis Presley...

Mark "Rent-boy" Renton : OK, OK, so what's the point you're trying to make?

Sick Boy : All I'm trying to do is help you understand that The Name of The Rose is merely a blip on an otherwise uninterrupted downward trajectory.

Mark "Rent-boy" Renton : What about The Untouchables?

Sick Boy : I don't rate that at all.

Mark "Rent-boy" Renton : Despite the Academy Award?

Sick Boy : That means feck all. Its a sympathy vote.

Mark "Rent-boy" Renton : Right. So we all get old and then we can't hack it anymore. Is that it?

Sick Boy : Yeah.

Mark "Rent-boy" Renton : That's your theory?

Sick Boy : Yeah. Beautifully fecking illustrated
Brilliant writing, this.
 

passing-wind

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If Mourinho can keep the players onside he will get results. The aspect of performances is where Jose struggles and it's genuinely a reason why he struggles to build competitive teams, he's the type of manager to put things together rather than craft a sustainable squad.

I don't care what the opinions are with Woodward, Mourinho signed enough players in his years here to cover the entire starting 11. Spurs should be ruthless and use the DOF recommendations over the managers, otherwise you'll find Jose signing players and then a year or two later wanting replacements for them. I'm not even going to bother dispensing an opinion on ethos and play style :lol: Tottenham are absolutely finished in this regard until someone else comes in.
 

giorno

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Spurs have a plethora of midfield options. Lo Celso, Ndombele, Alli, Dier, Winks, Sissoko.
They're either injured, crap, or attacking midfielders though. They just don't have the players to build up from the back against a good press. Hence using the CBs to launch long balls over the top of the defence. They've been doing that since most of last season too
 

Brwned

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They're either injured, crap, or attacking midfielders though. They just don't have the players to build up from the back against a good press. Hence using the CBs to launch long balls over the top of the defence. They've been doing that since most of last season too
Pretty sure Ndombele can build up from the back well against a good press. He takes a few more risks but looks very comfortable dropping deep and picks out players in between midfield and defence consistently. He just seems a little too languid for Mourinho's liking.
 

balaks

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Pretty sure Ndombele can build up from the back well against a good press. He takes a few more risks but looks very comfortable dropping deep and picks out players in between midfield and defence consistently. He just seems a little too languid for Mourinho's liking.
He can but he is not fit enough yet. Which is pretty shocking by the way. He does look pure class though.
 

giorno

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Pretty sure Ndombele can build up from the back well against a good press. He takes a few more risks but looks very comfortable dropping deep and picks out players in between midfield and defence consistently. He just seems a little too languid for Mourinho's liking.
He is, but he's injured
 

Rhyme Animal

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I think Sick Boy sums him up pretty well:



Sick Boy : It's certainly a phenomenon in all walks of life.

Mark "Rent-boy" Renton : What do you mean?

Sick Boy : Well, at one time, you've got it, and then you lose it, and it's gone forever. All walks of life: George Best, for example. Had it, lost it. Or David Bowie, or Lou Reed...

Mark "Rent-boy" Renton : Some of his solo stuff's not bad.

Sick Boy : No, it's not bad, but it's not great either. And in your heart you kind of know that although it sounds all right, it's actually just shite.

Mark "Rent-boy" Renton : So who else?

Sick Boy : Charlie Nicholas, David Niven, Malcolm McLaren, Elvis Presley...

Mark "Rent-boy" Renton : OK, OK, so what's the point you're trying to make?

Sick Boy : All I'm trying to do is help you understand that The Name of The Rose is merely a blip on an otherwise uninterrupted downward trajectory.

Mark "Rent-boy" Renton : What about The Untouchables?

Sick Boy : I don't rate that at all.

Mark "Rent-boy" Renton : Despite the Academy Award?

Sick Boy : That means feck all. Its a sympathy vote.

Mark "Rent-boy" Renton : Right. So we all get old and then we can't hack it anymore. Is that it?

Sick Boy : Yeah.

Mark "Rent-boy" Renton : That's your theory?

Sick Boy : Yeah. Beautifully fecking illustrated
Bowie with the last laugh over this dialogue...

And I think Mourinho will win a trophy with Spuds - albeit a minor one.
 

Offside

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He’s taken them from 14th to within a point of the top four so he must be doing something right surely?
The amount of shite that's posted on here that's clearly just been read from a "FutbolBible" post with no context.
 

Dec9003

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The amount of shite that's posted on here that's clearly just been read from a "FutbolBible" post with no context.
I’m sorry I don’t know what futbolbible is.
He’s gained about 11 points on fourth place since he was appointed, that’s not bad no?
We don’t really know how successful Jose will be at Tottenham, but he’s done alright so far I’d say.
It will be interesting to see if they can get champions league football given their injuries to some of their top players.
 

Offside

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I’m sorry I don’t know what futbolbible is.
He’s gained about 11 points on fourth place since he was appointed, that’s not bad no?
We don’t really know how successful Jose will be at Tottenham, but he’s done alright so far I’d say.
It will be interesting to see if they can get champions league football given their injuries to some of their top players.
Apologies.
More down to Chelsea's free-fall.
He's not doing as bad as he usually does in his 3rd season but give him time and it will go toxic.
 

Dec9003

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Apologies.
More down to Chelsea's free-fall.
He's not doing as bad as he usually does in his 3rd season but give him time and it will go toxic.
Chelsea aren’t doing well no but they’ve still had to win matches to make up the points.
Yeah we have a pretty good idea how it will end, probably similar to his time with us.
If he can win them a cup and get champions league football before the almost inevitable meltdown though Spurs fans would probably take that anyway.
 

giorno

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26 points in 14 games. 70/71 points clip over a full season

That said, aside from the first few games, they're doing well mostly because Son, Lucas, Alli, etc have all hit great patches of form and carried them even as the overall team performances weren't much to speak of. Initially he improved the defence but at this point it's basically back to where it was under Pochettino.

Spurs are basically the team they were second half of last season. An improvement from what they were this season under Pochettino, so Mourinho has managed to at least steady the ship. Injuries have meant he hasn't really had a real chance to do more than that, while at the same time, but at the same time, his is a team that relies entirely on individualities right now
 

ReddBalls

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I think Sick Boy sums him up pretty well:



Sick Boy : It's certainly a phenomenon in all walks of life.

Mark "Rent-boy" Renton : What do you mean?

Sick Boy : Well, at one time, you've got it, and then you lose it, and it's gone forever. All walks of life: George Best, for example. Had it, lost it. Or David Bowie, or Lou Reed...

Mark "Rent-boy" Renton : Some of his solo stuff's not bad.

Sick Boy : No, it's not bad, but it's not great either. And in your heart you kind of know that although it sounds all right, it's actually just shite.

Mark "Rent-boy" Renton : So who else?

Sick Boy : Charlie Nicholas, David Niven, Malcolm McLaren, Elvis Presley...

Mark "Rent-boy" Renton : OK, OK, so what's the point you're trying to make?

Sick Boy : All I'm trying to do is help you understand that The Name of The Rose is merely a blip on an otherwise uninterrupted downward trajectory.

Mark "Rent-boy" Renton : What about The Untouchables?

Sick Boy : I don't rate that at all.

Mark "Rent-boy" Renton : Despite the Academy Award?

Sick Boy : That means feck all. Its a sympathy vote.

Mark "Rent-boy" Renton : Right. So we all get old and then we can't hack it anymore. Is that it?

Sick Boy : Yeah.

Mark "Rent-boy" Renton : That's your theory?

Sick Boy : Yeah. Beautifully fecking illustrated
Irvine Welsh is brilliant.
 

NewGlory

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Did Mourinho lecture press on how Tottenham also lacks "football heritage" after shitting pants with RB Leipzig, the way he did with us post-Valencia loss?

He seems to have tendency of regurgitating old tricks, even way after they stop working, so - just curious.
 

Loon

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He’s started chucking players under the bus. Having said that, starting with that gobshite Delle Ali is a great choice.
 

Sad Chris

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So the context shows he’s doing a good job then? Made up 11 points on the fourth-place team which given how they were doing this season under Poch is impressive.
The context certainly doesn’t take away from their decent form post Poch.
Fair enough, I think many Spurs supporters are happy about the points he's won, especially after the abysmal final Poch months. But many also seem to be blowing his achievements in these first 14 games out of proportion:

26 points after 14 games would have had him...
- 5th in 15/16
- 6th in 16/17
- 5th to 6th in 17/18 (depending on goal difference)
- 6th in 18/19

So, I think it's fair to conclude that 26 points in 14 games is usually what you need to be sitting between 5th and 6th, a tendency more towards 6th. Some will argue that it's good enough at this moment in time, steadying the ship after Poch. However, arguing that he's done a good job of catching up is an overstretch. The very poor performances of one other team are the sole reason for this catchup. Chelsea has managed to collect 15 points in the last 14 games.

15 points after 14 games would have you in...
- 14th in 15/16
- 13th in 16/17
- 12th to 14th in 17/18
- 13th in 18/19

Having a team in the top 4 melt away like Chelsea has made it possible for an average performance of Jose to look like a very good performance. But not just Spurs have caught up with Chelsea, other teams include:

Sheffield - 7 points
United - 7
Wolves - 5
Burnley - 4
Arsenal - 2
Even Watford in 19th has gained a point on Chelsea!

I can imagine that Jose will boast about his first season at Spurs. It will sound like a very good achievement to take a team from 14th to top 6, maybe CL qualification. But for those who choose to take a closer look, there's nothing magical going on here.

There are many more things to consider the broader picture. How much of this was due to the new manager bounce? Or looking forward, of the eight games he has won, six were with only one goal difference, so how will he compensate for the injured attackers and the expected drop in goals scored? Will a 6th place performance be enough to finish 4th this season or will other clubs (United) step up at last?

I think there are many ways he will (or won't) be able to prove his value over the next few weeks and months; he doesn't need credit for this "catch up". In the best case, he can show everybody he still has it, in the worst case, he'll just confirm what many people think about him: he ain't got it anymore. It's going to be interesting either way.
 

André Dominguez

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Different with Mourinho, from Chelsea perspective at least, the way he treated Eva and his general downfall in 15/16 was a disgrace. I fell pretty positive about all our ex managers back to Hoddle when first went to a game, only Mourinho is the exception.

Levy has made a massive mistake hiring him and Spurs fans will ultimately regret Mourinho as much as most Utd and Chelsea fans do.
In the end is always a matter of power balance. The difference is that Mourinho is so mediatic that makes it look like just happens to him, when apart from Guardiola, every manager eventually meltdown after a long period at a club.
If Dortmund had given full power to Klopp even after that tough season, I'm pretty sure he would put some top players out of the team and probably not even at the bench, but he would loose because in the end players market value is way bigger than replacing the manager.
 

zenith

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I'm so relived that he's not our manager. Toxic moaner to the core.
 

bondsname

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And so it begins.
This guy is a textbook narcissist. Everything is about his achievements. If he fails to get top 4, it's because the squad is bad. If he gets top 4, it's because of his amazing coaching.

It all checks out; fantastic at first impressions, charismatic, scapegoating, inflated and fragile ego, cannot admit mistakes. When he took the Spurs job I thought he was a changed man, but he will eventually fall into his usual toxic behaviour which is very typical of a narcissist.

Now when I think about it, when he took the United job he had me fooled aswell, I thought he was a changed man.