Jose Mourinho - Was He Right?

[breakout67]

Inter brought in 5 players in 09/10 that went into the starting 11.

Milito
Eto'o
Sneijder
Lucio
Motta

Zanetti, Cambiasso and Zlatan were their best players when he came and he lost one of them.

Porto brought in the following players under JM that started in their CL winning season:

Ferreira
Valente
Maniche
Derlei
Alberto
Mendes

His first stint at Chelsea, he bought these players that featured heavily in his first 2 seasons:

Drogba
Carvalho
Cech
Ferreira
Essien

No way you can call bringing in 5-6 first team players as 'tweaking' the team. That's a rebuild.

 

[doriandun]

Bailey and Lindelof???

He'd already bought two centre-backs.
Fair enough they both struggled but it was relatively early so they both deserved another chance.
Plus, even if they did turn out to be bad signings, can u then blame the board for being a bit sceptical about handing Mourinhio 75m to spend on Harry Maguire?

Im not the biggest fan of our board either, believe me, but I can definitely see where they were coming from on that one.

Another option was of course to try out one of the younger players at CB but that was never ever going to happen under Mourinhio either.

All you do is offset the cost of Harry Maguire with getting rid of Phil Jones and Bailly, now Bailly contract expires in 2020, and will probably leave on a free. By offloading those two you could bring in 35 to 40 mill, that means you have paid 40 odd mill for Harry Maguire, who is still young enough.

If the club was smart this summer i would get rid of Pogba, use that money to get Neve's and a Dacoure, that gives you a midfield of Neve's,Mc T, Fred and Dacoure, then outlay 30 to 40 mill to get a right winger and Alderweireld, thats how you shop.

 

[JPRouve]

Inter brought in 5 players in 09/10 that went into the starting 11.

Milito
Eto'o
Sneijder
Lucio
Motta

Zanetti, Cambiasso and Zlatan were their best players when he came and he lost one of them.

Porto brought in the following players under JM that started in their CL winning season:

Ferreira
Valente
Maniche
Derlei
Alberto
Mendes

His first stint at Chelsea, he bought these players that featured heavily in his first 2 seasons:

Drogba
Carvalho
Cech
Ferreira
Essien

No way you can call bringing in 5-6 first team players as 'tweaking' the team. That's a rebuild.

First all of these clubs have and had DOFs. And he definitely tweaked these teams, just look at Inter they were champions when he joined them and he kept the same backbone made of Cambiasso, Stankovic, Cordoba, Samuel, Zanetti, Maicon, Julio César during the first season he had Ibrahimovic and Veira and went to the CL semi final while most of the players that you are mentioning came in 2009. He tweaked it to win the CL but he didn't built a backbone.
Cech was purchased by the club under Ranieri, they tried to have him in January and were after him for months before that. And these players joined a backbone made of Makélélé, Terry, Lampard, Duff, Gallas, Bridge and Gudjohnsen among others like Cole. Chelsea finished second with Ranieri and CL semi finalists.

There is a partner here, he is able to make wonders when you have a backbone but we don't really know what he could do without one.

 

[breakout67]

First all of these clubs have and had DOFs. And he definitely tweaked these teams, just look at Inter they were champions when he joined them and he kept the same backbone made of Cambiasso, Stankovic, Cordoba, Samuel, Zanetti, Maicon, Julio César during the first season he had Ibrahimovic and Veira and went to the CL semi final while most of the players that you are mentioning came in 2009. He tweaked it to win the CL but he didn't built a backbone.
Cech was purchased by the club under Ranieri, they tried to have him in January and were after him for months before that. And these players joined a backbone made of Makélélé, Terry, Lampard, Duff, Gallas, Bridge and Gudjohnsen among others like Cole. Chelsea finished second with Ranieri.

There is a partner here, he is able to make wonders when you have a backbone but we don't really know what he could do without one.

You are way off about that Inter team. Inter got knocked out by us in the final 16 and quite comfortably at that. They also finished comfortably 2nd in their group behind Panathinaikos. They were nowhere near a CL title in his first season.

It's being captain hindsight to suggest that Inter Milan had the back bone of a CL winning team in that season. When you are citing Stankovic, a Past it Viera and Cordoba as part of your back bone then things are grim, Stankovic was constantly moved around and used as a utility player in 09/10 and Cordoba was a squad player. Both of these players were also at Inter for a very long time, they had shown no evidence of being the required standard at the highest level. Viera averaged 20 appearances a season under Mou, to cite him as part of the back bone is nonsense.

Chelsea however, I can understand what you are saying. Because Ranieri did a lot of good work that Mourinho built upon. Not to mention Mou spent a ridiculous amount, most managers could build a team spending the way Chelsea did.

I would say that there is a strong case that Mourinho built a team for both Porto and Inter.

 

[Ashley R1+O]

I think he despised the mentality of some of the players, and I'm inclined to believe he was right on that point. Probably why he started to play McTominay, even though he's rarely trusted the youth. He saw that he was willing to put in a proper shift unlike some others...

It was the same with Fellaini. Despite people relentlessly yelling like somebody with Tourette Syndrome "HOOFBALL BLERGGGG HOOFBALLLRLLLARLARLRLARL" he actually gave a shift for the shirt every time and never let his standards slip. Despite his own clubs fans booing him and calling him shit. That is the type of mentality we should be coveting and sowing throughout the club.

 

[Lentwood]

Even if he was right, so what?

It was still Mourinhio's own fault because, two years into the job, it was essentially his squad.
You could understand him moaning on all summer like he did about how poor the squad was if it was his first season in charge, but after two full years then anyone in the squad was either his own signing, or players he had chosen to keep.
So even if the squad was poor, was that not his fault?

Solskjaer, in his defence, did the opposite and actually tried to to be positive and talk up this 'average' squad that he had inherited and it worked until David De Gea decided to show everyone how overrated he is and cost us one crucial goal after another.

I will keep saying this over and over again until it sinks in for every poster - modern football managers are not fundamentally responsible for scouting/signing players! That responsibility is on the scouting team and in most clubs, a DoF/Head of Recruitment. A modern football manager will say 'I would like an aggressive holding midfield player with power and energy etc....' and the scouting/analyst team will come back with a shortlist which the manager will put to the board to pursue.

This notion of 'it was manager Xs squad' or whatever is fundamentally flawed. If the players coming into the club are not good enough, then that is on the scouts/analysts. Do you think Jose spent weeks watching Fred, Bailly, Lindelof, Dalot etc....I can tell you the answer....no he did not! Every manager that has come into our club, including David Moyes who joined from a mid-table side, has said that our scouting is shambolic and the quality of information is very low. Hence why our managers have often fallen back on signing players that they know from previous clubs!

It is no coincidence that the dominance of City and continued rise of Liverpool was preceded first and foremost NOT by Pep & Klopp but by Txiki Begiristain and Michael Edwards. Those are the guys responsible for bringing in De Bruyne, Laporte, Kyle Walker, Ederson, Salah, Firminho, Mane, Van Dijk etc....during the same period we have signed Herrera, Rojo, Darmian, Lukaku, Blind, Dalot, Bailly, Lindelof etc.....

 

[JPRouve]

You are way off about that Inter team. Inter got knocked out by us in the final 16 and quite comfortably at that. They also finished comfortably 2nd in their group behind Panathinaikos. They were nowhere near a CL title in his first season.

It's being captain hindsight to suggest that Inter Milan had the back bone of a CL winning team in that season. When you are citing Stankovic, a Past it Viera and Cordoba as part of your back bone then things are grim, Stankovic was constantly moved around and used as a utility player in 09/10 and Cordoba was a squad player. Both of these players were also at Inter for a very long time, they had shown no evidence of being the required standard at the highest level. Viera averaged 20 appearances a season under Mou, to cite him as part of the back bone is nonsense.

Chelsea however, I can understand what you are saying. Because Ranieri did a lot of good work that Mourinho built upon. Not to mention Mou spent a ridiculous amount, most managers could build a team spending the way Chelsea did.

I would say that there is a strong case that Mourinho built a team for both Porto and Inter.

I'm talking about his entire time at Inter while you somehow talk about the second season which is strange because the players that you decided to ignore went to the CL semi final, so they very much proved their quality. Then Mourinho tweaked the team to go from the CL semi finals to winning it. The following season the team fell off a cliff though partially because the backbone that I'm referring to was relatively old.

 

[Swintonred1987]

I'm talking about his entire time at Inter while you somehow talk about the second season which is strange because the players that you decided to ignore went to the CL semi final, so they very much proved their quality. Then Mourinho tweaked the team to go from the CL semi finals to winning it. The following season the team fell off a cliff though partially because the backbone that I'm referring to was relatively old.

When you buy five/six players and they go straight into the starting line up that is not squad tweak that’s a rebuild. What’s so hard to understand?

 

[breakout67]

I'm talking about his entire time at Inter while you somehow talk about the second season which is strange because the players that you decided to ignore went to the CL semi final, so they very much proved their quality. Then Mourinho tweaked the team to go from the CL semi finals to winning it. The following season the team fell off a cliff though partially because the backbone that I'm referring to was relatively old.

Inter Milan did not go to the Semi-final in his first season. They got knocked out in the final 16 by us.

Here are Inter Milan's CL results.

04/05 - Knocked out in the final 8
05/06 - Knocked out in the final 8
06/07 - Knocked out in final 16
07/08 - Knocked out in final 16
08/09 - Knocked out in final 16
09/10 - Win the CL

You have confused Inter Milan with another team.

 

[JPRouve]

Inter Milan did not go to the Semi-final in his first season. They got knocked out in the final 16 by us.

Here are Inter Milan's CL results.

04/05 - Knocked out in the final 8
05/06 - Knocked out in the final 8
06/07 - Knocked out in final 16
07/08 - Knocked out in final 16
08/09 - Knocked out in final 16
09/10 - Win the CL

You have confused Inter Milan with another team.

My bad, I messed up that one. But the point stands Mourinho added to Zanetti, Cambiasso, Samuel, Julio César and Maicon, Maxwell and Chivu were also the main leftbacks until the last part of the CL campaign. It's also worth remembering that only Milito and Motta managed to maintain their levels beyond 2010, he didn't built the backbone of that Inter team and most of the signings weren't durable. Though to be fair to him he wasn't hired to do that and he wasn't a DOF, so if I don't give him special credits I won't give him any flak for it either.

 

[Lentwood]

It was the same with Fellaini. Despite people relentlessly yelling like somebody with Tourette Syndrome "HOOFBALL BLERGGGG HOOFBALLLRLLLARLARLRLARL" he actually gave a shift for the shirt every time and never let his standards slip. Despite his own clubs fans booing him and calling him shit. That is the type of mentality we should be coveting and sowing throughout the club.

Yeah but the modern-day football fan would rather see 89 minutes of posturing and arm-waving followed by a rabona that goes into row Z than a player like Fellaini who tirelessly gets through the dirty work

I made the same point about Young recently - he might have fallen off a cliff these last couple of months but you can't doubt his commitment or application. Not his fault the club haven't prepared for him to be phased out so he's being forced to play every week

 

[breakout67]

My bad, I messed up that one. But the point stands Mourinho added to Zanetti, Cambiasso, Samuel, Julio César and Maicon, Maxwell and Chivu were also the main leftbacks until the last part of the CL campaign. It's also worth remembering that only Milito and Motta managed to maintain their levels beyond 2010, he didn't built the backbone of that Inter team and most of the signings weren't durable. Though to be fair to him he wasn't hired to do that and he wasn't a DOF, so if I don't give him special credits I won't give him any flak for it either.

Well he was hired to build a CL winning team which he did. I won't be foolish in thinking that Mourinho can build a long term project. The failure of Inter after he left was more down to those above him, who did not look after the club's finances at all. The owner was obsessed with winning the CL and put everything into it when hiring Mourinho. Maybe he didn't care anymore, who knows.

 

[Ish]

He was right. He was wrong. He was part of the problem. But he was by far, also not the only problem.

 

[Buster15]

Inter brought in 5 players in 09/10 that went into the starting 11.

Milito
Eto'o
Sneijder
Lucio
Motta

Zanetti, Cambiasso and Zlatan were their best players when he came and he lost one of them.

Porto brought in the following players under JM that started in their CL winning season:

Ferreira
Valente
Maniche
Derlei
Alberto
Mendes

His first stint at Chelsea, he bought these players that featured heavily in his first 2 seasons:

Drogba
Carvalho
Cech
Ferreira
Essien

No way you can call bringing in 5-6 first team players as 'tweaking' the team. That's a rebuild.

Looking at that list, it shows that Jose knew exactly which players to buy and that he is a good judge of a player; contrary to what some say.

 

[Buster15]

I will keep saying this over and over again until it sinks in for every poster - modern football managers are not fundamentally responsible for scouting/signing players! That responsibility is on the scouting team and in most clubs, a DoF/Head of Recruitment. A modern football manager will say 'I would like an aggressive holding midfield player with power and energy etc....' and the scouting/analyst team will come back with a shortlist which the manager will put to the board to pursue.

This notion of 'it was manager Xs squad' or whatever is fundamentally flawed. If the players coming into the club are not good enough, then that is on the scouts/analysts. Do you think Jose spent weeks watching Fred, Bailly, Lindelof, Dalot etc....I can tell you the answer....no he did not! Every manager that has come into our club, including David Moyes who joined from a mid-table side, has said that our scouting is shambolic and the quality of information is very low. Hence why our managers have often fallen back on signing players that they know from previous clubs!

It is no coincidence that the dominance of City and continued rise of Liverpool was preceded first and foremost NOT by Pep & Klopp but by Txiki Begiristain and Michael Edwards. Those are the guys responsible for bringing in De Bruyne, Laporte, Kyle Walker, Ederson, Salah, Firminho, Mane, Van Dijk etc....during the same period we have signed Herrera, Rojo, Darmian, Lukaku, Blind, Dalot, Bailly, Lindelof etc.....

All I can add is - good point well made.
Don't believe everything you read or hear in the popular press.
Most of it is simple headline making.

 

[SiamDevil]

It was the same with Fellaini. Despite people relentlessly yelling like somebody with Tourette Syndrome "HOOFBALL BLERGGGG HOOFBALLLRLLLARLARLRLARL" he actually gave a shift for the shirt every time and never let his standards slip. Despite his own clubs fans booing him and calling him shit. That is the type of mentality we should be coveting and sowing throughout the club.

There was a couple of influential United fans (almost certain it’s Goldbridge and Rants) who mocked players of lesser quality but always gave 100% calling them “passion merchants”. Shame on them. We’re so desperate for passion right now.

 

[André Dominguez]

Inter brought in 5 players in 09/10 that went into the starting 11.

Milito
Eto'o
Sneijder
Lucio
Motta

Zanetti, Cambiasso and Zlatan were their best players when he came and he lost one of them.

Porto brought in the following players under JM that started in their CL winning season:

Ferreira
Valente
Maniche
Derlei
Alberto
Mendes

His first stint at Chelsea, he bought these players that featured heavily in his first 2 seasons:

Drogba
Carvalho
Cech
Ferreira
Essien

No way you can call bringing in 5-6 first team players as 'tweaking' the team. That's a rebuild.

At Inter he had not much input on the transfer market: Moratti always made sure that Inter had good players every summer, as long as the funds allowed it.

At Porto he only had input on Derlei and Valente, which he previously managed at Leiria. Porto always had a very organized DoF, and Carlos Alberto was totally unknown for Mourinho before he signed for Porto.

At Chelsea he probably had a heavier input, since he brought Ferreira and Carvalho and asked for Drogba because he was extremely impressed by Drogba's performances at UCL under the Marseille shirt. It ruined Abrahamovic plans though, because he wanted to hire Sheva in that season and had already agreed terms with Milan.

 

[André Dominguez]

As I said many times, I'm far from being Jose's fan, and I think he's getting a bit outdated tbh, but I think he can still be an extremely effective manager with the right conditions.

But he is extremely demanding to the point that the players grow tired of him relatively quickly.

IMHO, for Mourinho to be sucessful, he needs a squad that it's bloodthirsty, which is something he never found here, and so, he couldn't get his message to our current set of players.

Because Mourinho is one of those managers that will give you some slack about your errors if he sees you working your *ss off.

 

[JPRouve]

At Inter he had not much input on the transfer market: Moratti always made sure that Inter had good players every summer, as long as the funds allowed it.

At Porto he only had input on Derlei and Valente, which he previously managed at Leiria. Porto always had a very organized DoF, and Carlos Alberto was totally unknown for Mourinho before he signed for Porto.

At Chelsea he probably had a heavier input, since he brought Ferreira and Carvalho and asked for Drogba because he was extremely impressed by Drogba's performances at UCL under the Marseille shirt. It ruined Abrahamovic plans though, because he wanted to hire Sheva in that season and had already agreed terms with Milan.

There is a different angle to that one, Abramovich and Kenyon used Mendes as consultant, he apparently advised Rybolovlev to do the same at Monaco. Also Kenyon and Mendes happens to be close and ended up working together.

 

[SteveTheRed]

Of course he was right. Jose problem was that he was fed up with the squad and hierarchy at the club and it spilled out into the public - he was tired of some of the players dictating the club and wanted to make sure people knew that.

Ole will/is finding out the same problem. We had a little spell, the players flexed their muscles and were excited they got rid of Mourinho but now realised the pressure is back on them to perform.

 

[André Dominguez]

There is a different angle to that one, Abramovich and Kenyon used Mendes as consultant, he apparently advised Rybolovlev to do the same at Monaco. Also Kenyon and Mendes happens to be close and ended up working together.

That probably also influenced some of those transfer choices, although Drogba was not represented by Mendes.

 

[Lentwood]

Of course he was right. Jose problem was that he was fed up with the squad and hierarchy at the club and it spilled out into the public - he was tired of some of the players dictating the club and wanted to make sure people knew that.

Ole will/is finding out the same problem. We had a little spell, the players flexed their muscles and were excited they got rid of Mourinho but now realised the pressure is back on them to perform.

Correct. I imagine Jose expected that, after finishing second, the Board would really push to invest in the players required to go toe-to-toe with City

Instead, we spend less than Fulham

I imagine the following conversation took place between Ed and the shareholders;

Ed - "I am under pressure from Jose to invest in additional playing staff to target a league title next year"

Shareholders - "How much is he asking for "

Ed - "£200-£250m"

Shareholders - "How much extra income does winning a league title deliver, as compared with finishing 4th?"

Ed - "about £15m"

Shareholders - "invest £250m to see a £15m ROI.....yeah sure....."

 

[Mr. Christian]

He was right when talking about the lack of quality and commitment we have.
He ultimately couldn't fix it though, so he needed to go.

Perfectly put.

 

[DSG]

I will keep saying this over and over again until it sinks in for every poster - modern football managers are not fundamentally responsible for scouting/signing players! That responsibility is on the scouting team and in most clubs, a DoF/Head of Recruitment. A modern football manager will say 'I would like an aggressive holding midfield player with power and energy etc....' and the scouting/analyst team will come back with a shortlist which the manager will put to the board to pursue.

This notion of 'it was manager Xs squad' or whatever is fundamentally flawed. If the players coming into the club are not good enough, then that is on the scouts/analysts. Do you think Jose spent weeks watching Fred, Bailly, Lindelof, Dalot etc....I can tell you the answer....no he did not! Every manager that has come into our club, including David Moyes who joined from a mid-table side, has said that our scouting is shambolic and the quality of information is very low. Hence why our managers have often fallen back on signing players that they know from previous clubs!

It is no coincidence that the dominance of City and continued rise of Liverpool was preceded first and foremost NOT by Pep & Klopp but by Txiki Begiristain and Michael Edwards. Those are the guys responsible for bringing in De Bruyne, Laporte, Kyle Walker, Ederson, Salah, Firminho, Mane, Van Dijk etc....during the same period we have signed Herrera, Rojo, Darmian, Lukaku, Blind, Dalot, Bailly, Lindelof etc.....

Wrong. The manager’s job is on the line. To think that Jose said, “I need a (blank)”, then just blindly allowed them to purchase whoever fits the requirements is patently wrong and false. Our scouting quality may be awful, but the manager, in our system, has final say over which option we attempt to buy at any given position.

You are insane if you think Moyes, LvG and Jose did not watch footage of players before spending tens of millions of dollars on them. Not only did they watch, their assistants did as well. 60+ matches every season and just the scouting of opposing teams alone will provide a lot of footage of transfer targets.

Managers ARE responsible for who they bring in. Credit to Mourinho for recognizing that his earlier purchases WERE NOT good enough to win the league and ask for reinforcements. Credit to the board for denying those requests because he would have overpaid for 30 yr old defenders.

I believe nothing Moyes says, by the way. He’s trying to get a job. Of course he’s going to say that the scouting was shambolic. If he says the scouting was quality, it’s his fault that he didn’t buy the right players. Or get them to perform.

Look, the DoF is the best way forward, mostly because the DoF is tasked with building youth talent as well as senior team talent. The manager needs to win now. If the manager is making decisions based on winning now, the youth / reserves / squad tends to be neglected.

 

[bonothom]

He was right about the attitude of the players but he did himself no favours when being such a miserable bastard.

 

[-Supreme-]

Turns out to be right whatever he said since he’s been at Utd.

One of the most notable things that said about Jose is not playing Rashford enough even though he already gave him plenty of opportunities and look how that turns out by playing him week in week out?

 

[Roboc7]

It was the same with Fellaini. Despite people relentlessly yelling like somebody with Tourette Syndrome "HOOFBALL BLERGGGG HOOFBALLLRLLLARLARLRLARL" he actually gave a shift for the shirt every time and never let his standards slip. Despite his own clubs fans booing him and calling him shit. That is the type of mentality we should be coveting and sowing throughout the club.

We need that type of mentality but in more talented players, irrespective of his attitude Fellaini wasn’t good enough. City are the best team because they don’t accept mediocre players who try hard or do their best and they wouldn’t tolerate talented players who aren’t prepared to work for the team.

 

[breakout67]

We need that type of mentality but in more talented players, irrespective of his attitude Fellaini wasn’t good enough. City are the best team because they don’t accept mediocre players who try hard or do their best and they wouldn’t tolerate talented players who aren’t prepared to work for the team.

This is spot on. Leroy Sane is benched and gets junk minutes in big games because he isn't working hard enough for the manager. Sane would walk into our team, underpeform for 3 seasons and then we'd give him a bumper new contract.

 

[red4ever 79]

Was right in terms of the players attitude and commitment. That is clearly evident now. However he didnt help the situation being such a miserable toxic guy. I have zero empathy with these players. I want 75% of them gone.

 

[Roboc7]

This is spot on. Leroy Sane is benched and gets junk minutes in big games because he isn't working hard enough for the manager. Sane would walk into our team, underpeform for 3 seasons and then we'd give him a bumper new contract.

Yeah and all the players Pep dumped for not being good enough would have been given bumper new deals as well.

The key for Ole is to buy players who fit his system and have right attitude and he needs to get likes of Pogba, Martial, Rashford etc to buy into it as well.

That’s where the improvement comes from, that’s who you need to connect with (or be prepared to sell) not from motivating likes of Mctominay, Fellaini and Young etc. Jose didn’t have problem with the latter type of players but as he found out here and at Chelsea and Madrid it’s the talent that will make or break you.

 

[Un4givableB]

Correct. I imagine Jose expected that, after finishing second, the Board would really push to invest in the players required to go toe-to-toe with City

Instead, we spend less than Fulham

I imagine the following conversation took place between Ed and the shareholders;

Ed - "I am under pressure from Jose to invest in additional playing staff to target a league title next year"

Shareholders - "How much is he asking for "

Ed - "£200-£250m"

Shareholders - "How much extra income does winning a league title deliver, as compared with finishing 4th?"

Ed - "about £15m"

Shareholders - "invest £250m to see a £15m ROI.....yeah sure....."

Always glad when someone sees what's going on, the Board, therefore the club has no ambition, they want us to be a slightly more free spending Arsene Wenger's Arsenal, always in the top 4 and occasionally win something.

 

[Ashley R1+O]

We need that type of mentality but in more talented players, irrespective of his attitude Fellaini wasn’t good enough. City are the best team because they don’t accept mediocre players who try hard or do their best and they wouldn’t tolerate talented players who aren’t prepared to work for the team.

You can't just instill that mentality in talented players. They either have it or they don't, we don't scout attitude and it is obvious under Woodward. Fellaini was fine as a squad player who could cover three positions, part of the attitude is understanding your place and being able to execute.

 

[haram]

He was right when talking about the lack of quality and commitment we have.
He ultimately couldn't fix it though, so he needed to go.

How can you fix it when the board doesn't back you and is even telling you who is and isn't good enough?

 

[Jama18418]

[QUOTE="doriandun, post: 24018163, member: 112338"


If the club was smart this summer i would get rid of Pogba, use that money to get Neve's and a Dacoure, that gives you a midfield of Neve's,Mc T, Fred and Dacoure, then outlay 30 to 40 mill to get a right winger and Alderweireld, thats how you shop.[/QUOTE]

Selling Pogba to get that midfield you described would be disastrous! We need quality that is proven in Europe against the big sides. Ndombele was brilliant against city and Barcelona. He wouldn’t cost a lot more than neves. Rabiot who is free is must! And tielemens for 40 million is bargain. That’s 100 million to give us a midfield that can compete against any in the world but more importantly amongst each other (Pogba/Fred/ndombele/rabiot/tielemens/mctominay)

I agree alderweireld is must with his clause, de Ligt would be amazing. Semedo from Barcelona would be quality.

I think all our attackers aren’t half as bad they are made out to be. I think it’s down to us not getting to dangerous positions like the other big teams in the league. It’s because we’re not able to spring quickly because we don’t have any ball playing quality from our Cb and our full back rarely carry the ball!

 

[Roboc7]

You can't just instill that mentality in talented players. They either have it or they don't, we don't scout attitude and it is obvious under Woodward. Fellaini was fine as a squad player who could cover three positions, part of the attitude is understanding your place and being able to execute.

Think it’s time to move on from Fellaini, he wasn’t good enough, he’s gone and left for his payday rather than fighting for his place. He’s a poor example of what a United player should be. Saying to players this guy isn’t very good but he works hard isn’t as effective as saying this guy is one of best players in the world and he tries hard.

If managers can’t get players to play for them then they need to identify players that can or find a way to motivate them.

It’s easy to motivate the less talented players who are happy to be there and being massively overpaid. At this stage in his career that’s who Mourinho could motivate, in his early days he was able to inspire much better players.

 

[Ashley R1+O]

Think it’s time to move on from Fellaini, he wasn’t good enough, he’s gone and left for his payday rather than fighting for his place. He’s a poor example of what a United player should be. Saying to players this guy isn’t very good but he works hard isn’t as effective as saying this guy is one of best players in the world and he tries hard.

It was time, we did move on. Nothing can change that, on the whole 'poor example' premise I don't really agree. You're just on a hiding to nothing as a fan and enabling the situational behavior which doubles down on the situation that we're in at the moment by absolving things like this and wafting them away into nothing.

Mentality was the outlier that SAF knew how to scout, one of the Gaffer's office things that set him apart from nearly every other manager in the game.

 

[AOAARON]

First all of these clubs have and had DOFs. And he definitely tweaked these teams, just look at Inter they were champions when he joined them and he kept the same backbone made of Cambiasso, Stankovic, Cordoba, Samuel, Zanetti, Maicon, Julio César during the first season he had Ibrahimovic and Veira and went to the CL semi final while most of the players that you are mentioning came in 2009. He tweaked it to win the CL but he didn't built a backbone.
Cech was purchased by the club under Ranieri, they tried to have him in January and were after him for months before that. And these players joined a backbone made of Makélélé, Terry, Lampard, Duff, Gallas, Bridge and Gudjohnsen among others like Cole. Chelsea finished second with Ranieri and CL semi finalists.

There is a partner here, he is able to make wonders when you have a backbone but we don't really know what he could do without one.

Re: Mourinho's inter stint, I'd hardly call getting rid of Ibra and getting in Eto' a "tweak"..

But heck if that "tweaking" got Italian champions to champions of Europe, then you guys could do with a tweaker yourselves!

 

[Foxtrot]

Mourinho is always right.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

Re: Mourinho's inter stint, I'd hardly call getting rid of Ibra and getting in Eto' a "tweak"..

But heck if that "tweaking" got Italian champions to champions of Europe, then you guys could do with a tweaker yourselves!

Wasn't his call.

 

[Roboc7]

It was time, we did move on. Nothing can change that, on the whole 'poor example' premise I don't really agree. You're just on a hiding to nothing as a fan and enabling the situational behavior which doubles down on the situation that we're in at the moment by absolving things like this and wafting them away into nothing.

Mentality was the outlier that SAF knew how to scout, one of the Gaffer's office things that set him apart from nearly every other manager in the game.

Mentality and ability, celebrating mediocrity like Fellaini and rewarding it with new contracts and pay rises isn’t a good example.