Jose Mourinho - Was He Right?

[lsd]

A broken clock is right twice a day too

 

[Keeps It tidy]

Of course he was right

Every single one of you who gloated over Jose's sacking are contributing to the slow death of this club

Do you think the situation would be better if he was still managing?

 

[charlenefan]

It doesn't matter whether he was right or not. Mourinho was in it for himself. He didn't respect the club.

Had to go, not because of the job he did or didn't do, bit because the guy was in it for himself.

A million miles from what a United manager needs to be

While there's no denying Mourinho has an ego it actually does matter if he was right or not. Whether he bleeds Man Utd is somewhat irrelevant, he cares about his own CV and he wanted to be successful here.

In the summer a large majority sided with players like Martial and Pogba and the board did likewise, they didn't back him to do things his way and we're now in a situation where the same question will be asked of the fans and the board again, back those players who appear to be a large part of the problem or back the manager to try and turn things around his way

 

[Bilbo]

While there's no denying Mourinho has an ego it actually does matter if he was right or not. Whether he bleeds Man Utd is somewhat irrelevant, he cares about his own CV and he wanted to be successful here.

In the summer a large majority sided with players like Martial and Pogba and the board did likewise, they didn't back him to do things his way and we're now in a situation where the same question will be asked of the fans and the board again, back those players who appear to be a large part of the problem or back the manager to try and turn things around his way

Nope it doesn't matter. You cant deliver the message in the way that he did and expect to be taken seriously. Watch his post match interview after the Seville defeat and tell me that is someone you want anywhere near this club.

Let us not forget that this is his team. Lots of money spent. He failed. It's that simple.

 

[charlenefan]

Nope it doesn't matter. You cant deliver the message in the way that he did and expect to be taken seriously. Watch his post match interview after the Seville defeat and tell me that is someone you want anywhere near this club.

Let us not forget that this is his team. Lots of money spent. He failed. It's that simple.

Mourinho was done here I don't disagree with that however that's not the point of this thread is it, it's was he right with the things he was saying or wasn't he. How he delivered said message is largely irrelevant if the same message is repeated by Ole and also ignored

 

[Cassidy]

Was LVG right? Was Moyes? Has Ole outperformed Jose this season?

 

[breakout67]

I wanted to write a little about Perisic and Willian because they are often used as sticks to beat Moaninho with. First of all, I am under no illusion that these two players are world beaters, they are players below the level of world class, and only shine in a system that suits them. However, I believe that recruiting Lukaku, Perisic and Willian represented a coherent strategy in the market.

Lukaku's biggest strengths are his attacking of space and attacking of crosses. Perisic and Willian are both players that move defenders around with their dribbling and running, while also being good at supplying runners in the box (they have the added bonus of being very diligent in tracking back, but this is secondary). The plan in attack was to use Perisic and Willian to create space for Lukaku who would then make runs into the box to be fed by one of them.

Perisic would replace Martial while Willian would replace Lingard/Mata. So it makes sense to compare how they have performed over the past 3 seasons.

Martial - 51 goals and assists in 123 games, 2.41 games per g/a
Perisic - 61 goals and assists in 121 games, 1.98 games per g/a

Lingard - 37 goals and assists in 124 games, 3.35 games per g/a
Willian - 64 goals and assists in 147 games, 2.19 games per g/a

Not only would both be upgrades on our existing options, they would compliment our striker much more. It's possible that the three working together would be greater than the sum of its parts. The only issue would be age profile, but Willian and Perisic are still performing despite both being 30 years old.

 

[hn4manunited]

That's the thing, isn't it? We don't really know anything. We're spoonfed tidbits of information via the media (who naturally put their own spin on it) and are then left to draw conclusions which more often than not turn out to be false.

You make some good points though. It's genuinely perplexing for a manager with Jose's ability in the transfer market to get so many targets wrong.

I think you hit the nail here. You just don’t see that in Jose’s record on identifying transfer targets.

 

[haram]

I wanted to write a little about Perisic and Willian because they are often used as sticks to beat Moaninho with. First of all, I am under no illusion that these two players are world beaters, they are players below the level of world class, and only shine in a system that suits them. However, I believe that recruiting Lukaku, Perisic and Willian represented a coherent strategy in the market.

Lukaku's biggest strengths are his attacking of space and attacking of crosses. Perisic and Willian are both players that move defenders around with their dribbling and running, while also being good at supplying runners in the box (they have the added bonus of being very diligent in tracking back, but this is secondary). The plan in attack was to use Perisic and Willian to create space for Lukaku who would then make runs into the box to be fed by one of them.

Perisic would replace Martial while Willian would replace Lingard/Mata. So it makes sense to compare how they have performed over the past 3 seasons.

Martial - 51 goals and assists in 123 games, 2.41 games per g/a
Perisic - 61 goals and assists in 121 games, 1.98 games per g/a

Lingard - 37 goals and assists in 124 games, 3.35 games per g/a
Willian - 64 goals and assists in 147 games, 2.19 games per g/a

Not only would both be upgrades on our existing options, they would compliment our striker much more. It's possible that the three working together would be greater than the sum of its parts. The only issue would be age profile, but Willian and Perisic are still performing despite both being 30 years old.

Adding the fact that they would make us stronger away from home which was a problem for us last year. You really dont want Martial and Mata in deeper areas away from home, whereas Willian and Perisic are far more comfortable in those areas and playing on the break.

Our home form in the league in terms of results was good. People can say what they want about the performances.

 

[hn4manunited]

It doesn't matter whether he was right or not. Mourinho was in it for himself. He didn't respect the club.

Had to go, not because of the job he did or didn't do, bit because the guy was in it for himself.

A million miles from what a United manager needs to be

I think this is a flawed thinking among most of our fans. What does a manager who care about United look like?

Did what Jose do with exposing how this club is being run without care of getting sacked not mean he cared about our club? Did his constant moaning about Ed not providing him the backing he needed to get us back to winning ways not show a sign of caring for United?

 

[hn4manunited]

While there's no denying Mourinho has an ego it actually does matter if he was right or not. Whether he bleeds Man Utd is somewhat irrelevant, he cares about his own CV and he wanted to be successful here.

In the summer a large majority sided with players like Martial and Pogba and the board did likewise, they didn't back him to do things his way and we're now in a situation where the same question will be asked of the fans and the board again, back those players who appear to be a large part of the problem or back the manager to try and turn things around his way

This is a strong point that most fans are failing to see. Most would go straight to the Jose issue. Replace Jose with “manager” and we have a point that is valid.

 

[Z1L3]

Probably no-one wanted LVG so he retired and no big clubs appears to want Mourinho. mourinho didn't win/challenge for the PL for 4 years long time in football and did nothing of note in the CL for even longer. We can safely say they're both outdated.

Well, I guess Klopp and Poch are not outdated, they must be garbage because they won feck all, and they both have teams that are better at every single position.

 

[Z1L3]

Yes, a CB to partner Lindelof who was progressing. Centre backs work in partnerships. If Bailly is not the answer you move on. City went and broke the transfer record for a goalkeeper when Bravo failed and he was more proven than Bailly.

Alexis was signed after the club turned down Jose’s proposals for a winger. Woodward would agree to signing Alexis because he is a big name wouldn’t he? He is a clown.

He didn’t make a single successful signing, he did not improve any of our players yet we still finished 2nd? Something isn’t adding up.

Exactly. And as Jose said in his recent interviews, it's a different type of job if you're there on a short contract to win or if you're in it for the long run to (re)build. The club lacked the balls to side with the manager instead of the primadona players. Jose's biggest crime was that he was not liked. Period.

 

[starman]

He was right that we need to replace his poor recruitment, he would've been right the year after as well, and so on..

He was right to be sacked as he was simply not right for the club

 

[Keeps It tidy]

Exactly. And as Jose said in his recent interviews, it's a different type of job if you're there on a short contract to win or if you're in it for the long run to (re)build. The club lacked the balls to side with the manager instead of the primadona players. Jose's biggest crime was that he was not liked. Period.

What in Mourinho's career shows that he should be the one responsible for a rebuild?

 

[KristianMackle]

He was a problem himself but yes he was right. The players couldn't take his brutal honesty and just shut up shop. The problem runs far deeper than him and I'm afraid we'll need to replace at least 5 players in the starting eleven alone.

 

[Lentwood]

Do you think the situation would be better if he was still managing?

That is not the question that was asked

As I keep saying, whether our manager is Jose, Sven Goran Eriksson, Pep Guardiola, Barry Fry or Donald Trump, the club is rotten to the very core and serious structural and personnel changes are required to fix this

 

[Z1L3]

What in Mourinho's career shows that he should be the one responsible for a rebuild?

The second Chelsea title, for example. The fact that he knows football, unlike the mob that blamed him for everything and claimed that these players are wonderful and only need a manager like this or that.

But the other question is, if he's not the one to do the rebuild, then why give him a long-term contract?

 

[Kaglish10]

I wanted to write a little about Perisic and Willian because they are often used as sticks to beat Moaninho with. First of all, I am under no illusion that these two players are world beaters, they are players below the level of world class, and only shine in a system that suits them. However, I believe that recruiting Lukaku, Perisic and Willian represented a coherent strategy in the market.

Lukaku's biggest strengths are his attacking of space and attacking of crosses. Perisic and Willian are both players that move defenders around with their dribbling and running, while also being good at supplying runners in the box (they have the added bonus of being very diligent in tracking back, but this is secondary). The plan in attack was to use Perisic and Willian to create space for Lukaku who would then make runs into the box to be fed by one of them.

Perisic would replace Martial while Willian would replace Lingard/Mata. So it makes sense to compare how they have performed over the past 3 seasons.

Martial - 51 goals and assists in 123 games, 2.41 games per g/a
Perisic - 61 goals and assists in 121 games, 1.98 games per g/a

Lingard - 37 goals and assists in 124 games, 3.35 games per g/a
Willian - 64 goals and assists in 147 games, 2.19 games per g/a

Not only would both be upgrades on our existing options, they would compliment our striker much more. It's possible that the three working together would be greater than the sum of its parts. The only issue would be age profile, but Willian and Perisic are still performing despite both being 30 years old.

Only if these "have been" players would have come cheap. Willian was priced at 50mil, remember? I still don't know the reason behind signing Matic, Lukaku etc and you want us to add another turds in Perisic and Willian who wouldn't have come cheap and would then have us saddled with another shite burden? No, thank you. Why don't you recommend them for City?

 

[Keeps It tidy]

The second Chelsea title, for example. The fact that he knows football, unlike the mob that blamed him for everything and claimed that these players are wonderful and only need a manager like this or that.

But the other question is, if he's not the one to do the rebuild, then why give him a long-term contract?

And after winning a title in his second stint with Chelsea he had them in 16th place in December. And he should not have been given a long term contract with the club.

 

[B20]

Next up on the caf:

"Paul Ince - was he right?"

 

[Tincanalley]

I think Woody and the board had lost faith in Jose's ability to identify the correct transfer targets, due to every one of his previous targets being either the wrong fit or simply not good enough. They were reluctant to hand him more money and they had every reason to be.

Woody and the board - where could you find a better qualified bunch to make judgements in top tier football?

 

[Vialli_92]

No point bringing in Mourinho if he isn't going to be backed

The United job was probably his toughest job but ultimately what he said about the players looks to be true

 

[Mal donaghy]

Then clearly Mourinho didn't know the player he was getting in Pogba if he thought he would be the solution to all of his problems, not to mention he's the one player along with Martial who helped him keep his job longer than he should have and never lowered himself to Mourinho's incessant talking. No one who has ever played with Pogba will tell you he was a locker room cancer. General statements like pogba is what makes everything wrong this club is just nonsense, you're talking about a player that has 30 goals/assist this season playing with a team completely devoid of confidence or ideas without him. No one even comes close, even in a game like today he was the only one who created something. You're just venting at the wrong player, but Pogba's always been THE scapegoat for this team. He deserves slack, they all do but you need to have a look at what you're saying because you don't have an embarrassment of riches and if you think getting rid of Pogba and finding someone who can even come close to what he's capable of is going to be an easy task for a club with no CL and not much momentum, you are in for a rude awakening.

Great players can make the players around them appear great, grab the game by the scruff of the neck, lead a team that's getting beat to fighting back, by leading the way for others to follow, so in saying that, is Pogba one of them players ?? Cause he makes the most noise both Verbally and even Visually off the pitch, do you get what I mean ?[

 

[JPRouve]

That's the thing, isn't it? We don't really know anything. We're spoonfed tidbits of information via the media (who naturally put their own spin on it) and are then left to draw conclusions which more often than not turn out to be false.

You make some good points though. It's genuinely perplexing for a manager with Jose's ability in the transfer market to get so many targets wrong.

What are these abilities, he has never been in a position to actually dictate transfer policies? He has always worked with a DOF and technical directors.

 

[hn4manunited]

Only if these "have been" players would have come cheap. Willian was priced at 50mil, remember? I still don't know the reason behind signing Matic, Lukaku etc and you want us to add another turds in Perisic and Willian who wouldn't have come cheap and would then have us saddled with another shite burden? No, thank you. Why don't you recommend them for City?

If I were to guess, Jose needed some senior players with fighting spirit and a work ethic in the squad to help drive our young and weak minded players. We were doing much better when Zlatan was here. After he left, Matic was the only senior player who understand what Jose demands from his players. Jose just needed more of those influences in the squad.

 

[djembatheking]

With the Glazers/Woodward pulling the strings we are fecked . Van Gall said the club is a business 1st and a football club 2nd .
Jose wanted Perisic , Willian and Maguire/Alderweireld and wanted rid of Pogba and Martial as he knew they didn`t have the mentality to work their balls off for the team , both technically great players but luxury players that need quality around them . No doubt Woodward wanted to keep Pogba and Martial for their marketability and not the football reasons that Jose needed to build his team . Jose then checked out last summer and made sure he was sacked to ensure he got his pay off as he knew the club was fecked .
If Ole is not backed with regards to in goings and out goings the best statement he can make is to walk in the summer as he will be in a no win situation and it will only be a matter of time until player power gets him sacked anyway .
It boils my blood seeing players not fighting for the shirt .
It also makes sense as to why Mike Phelan is still unsure as to whether he wants to be a part of the shambles at a club he obviously loves .
Oles tactical awareness is still a bit of an unknown quantity but he has made it clear that he wants players that will work harder , run harder and never give up and he is at a club where he has the financial backing to buy the best technical players that have the drive and desire to be the best .
If players at the club are unable or unprepared to strive to be that then he should be allowed to offload them and replace with alternatives that will .
I doubt it will happen though as Ed will still want his big name superstars that helps him sell the Manchester United product .
feckin stinks .

 

[crossy1686]

Jose wasn't right* but he certainly was about some of the characters around the place. Problem is, being Jose Mourinho means your a prickly cnut and people are inclined to believe it's you boiling everyone's piss and not the other way around.

 

[Scholsey2004]

He was right. He'd also become part of the problem though and was actively trying to get sacked.

 

[Wumminator]

People seem to be suggesting that he should have been kept because he was right all along.

Can we all agree that his signings were awful and made us worse?

Mikhi/Bailly/Dalot/Matic/Sanchez/Fred have all been absolutely fecking horrific.

 

[Andy_Cole]

Jose’s right. The players are shite.

 

[Z1L3]

And after winning a title in his second stint with Chelsea he had them in 16th place in December. And he should not have been given a long term contract with the club.

Your question was, did he ever rebuild a team. The answer is yes, and he did it with bargain signings. Don't change the subject.

 

[Reddy Rederson]

Your question was, did he ever rebuild a team. The answer is yes, and he did it with bargain signings. Don't change the subject.

I think the most glaring thing about that video is how truest awful we have been in the market. Buying at huge prices with huge contracts, and then letting players walk away for free or very low fees. Whoever has been doing our transfer deals has been taken for a mug.

 

[Kaglish10]

If I were to guess, Jose needed some senior players with fighting spirit and a work ethic in the squad to help drive our young and weak minded players. We were doing much better when Zlatan was here. After he left, Matic was the only senior player who understand what Jose demands from his players. Jose just needed more of those influences in the squad.

Matic was already at the decline stage while he was at Chelsea. The fact that Mourinho signed him at an exorbitant price is even more ridiculous. If we had allowed Mourinho to continue his spending spree, the likes of Willian and Perisic would have been brought in at enormous amount of money.

I wouldn't have minded if they were just punts but to sign them at the price quoted for them? That's ridiculous.

 

[goin4glory]

Mourinho is a horrible cnut but he was also right. It's possible for both of these to be true. You don't have to like Mourinho to to see his point.

 

[Mcking]

We have the man who failed as a manager at Cardiff managing the first team, with the man who failed as a manager at Hull City assisting him. It is amazing how some are trying to use people who couldn't manage at Cardiff and fecking Hull City as some sort of justification for Mourinho who had us behind Bournemouth at the mid-part of the season.

 

[Eric7C]

People seem to be suggesting that he should have been kept because he was right all along.

Can we all agree that his signings were awful and made us worse?

Mikhi/Bailly/Dalot/Matic/Sanchez/Fred have all been absolutely fecking horrific.

I think we have seen enough from Dalot and Fred to suggest that they could be United players. Dalot especially because he is only 20 and you can't dismiss him just because he's had a couple of bad games being played out of position.

On your about Jose, I couldn't agree more. It's amazing how people cannot have any nuance in their arguments - it's possible that both our players and Jose are shit.

 

[Greck]

Here's an unpopular opinion. Of all our previous managers LVG is the only one I'd give more time but only if a gun were put to my head. He bought like crap but if he hadn't his footballing style was the only one worth investing more time into. Still the only manager who has tried to implement anything remotely resembling a style in possession

 

[breakout67]

Matic was already at the decline stage while he was at Chelsea. The fact that Mourinho signed him at an exorbitant price is even more ridiculous. If we had allowed Mourinho to continue his spending spree, the likes of Willian and Perisic would have been brought in at enormous amount of money.

I wouldn't have minded if they were just punts but to sign them at the price quoted for them? That's ridiculous.

I find this post quite funny. As if Mourinho has control over the prices we pay. You might want to have a word with Woodward and Matt Judge, ever since they took over we have been absolute mugs in the market. You can guarantee that they would have been punts had Barca, Bayern, Juventus bought them.

Vidal for £18m
Douglas Costa for £36m
Matuidi for £20m
Rodriguez for £40m

Do you think we would ever get these prices quoted for us? No way, because we have absolute mugs handling our transfers!

 

[Liver_bird]

I wanted to write a little about Perisic and Willian because they are often used as sticks to beat Moaninho with. First of all, I am under no illusion that these two players are world beaters, they are players below the level of world class, and only shine in a system that suits them. However, I believe that recruiting Lukaku, Perisic and Willian represented a coherent strategy in the market.

Lukaku's biggest strengths are his attacking of space and attacking of crosses. Perisic and Willian are both players that move defenders around with their dribbling and running, while also being good at supplying runners in the box (they have the added bonus of being very diligent in tracking back, but this is secondary). The plan in attack was to use Perisic and Willian to create space for Lukaku who would then make runs into the box to be fed by one of them.

Perisic would replace Martial while Willian would replace Lingard/Mata. So it makes sense to compare how they have performed over the past 3 seasons.

Martial - 51 goals and assists in 123 games, 2.41 games per g/a
Perisic - 61 goals and assists in 121 games, 1.98 games per g/a

Lingard - 37 goals and assists in 124 games, 3.35 games per g/a
Willian - 64 goals and assists in 147 games, 2.19 games per g/a

Not only would both be upgrades on our existing options, they would compliment our striker much more. It's possible that the three working together would be greater than the sum of its parts. The only issue would be age profile, but Willian and Perisic are still performing despite both being 30 years old.

Actually a very good post. It’s just about the direction and ethos, I’m pretty sure it’s not how most united fans wanted to play and unfortunately for José it left him in a position where he was half trying to play his way half trying to please the united faithful. Eventually he just lost it with everything and everyone but like many have alluded to it’s a structural problem. United need a rebuild and it doesn’t even have to be a lengthy one it’s just if the fans have the patience for it.

This united side are much better than the one Klopp inherited with us but ours was much more suited to his football having already played under Rodgers. We needed to tweak summer by summer till we could build a side not only in his image but one that could withstand the rigours of the league and it’s unique challenges as well as the UCL. We had patience but even then at times it wore thin for some fans, with United I feel the issue is exacerbated. Basically as much stick as we get for delusion the whole club has stuck by Klopp through thick and thin. It’ll take the same for united fans to do and that will filter through to the club and players. Nobody here is bigger than the manager.

In a nutshell it’s a collective effort to recognise what’s required and have the patience to see it through. The strategy needs to be coherent though from top to bottom.