lsd
The Oracle
- Joined
- Jun 5, 2016
- Messages
- 10,956
A broken clock is right twice a day too
Do you think the situation would be better if he was still managing?Of course he was right
Every single one of you who gloated over Jose's sacking are contributing to the slow death of this club
While there's no denying Mourinho has an ego it actually does matter if he was right or not. Whether he bleeds Man Utd is somewhat irrelevant, he cares about his own CV and he wanted to be successful here.It doesn't matter whether he was right or not. Mourinho was in it for himself. He didn't respect the club.
Had to go, not because of the job he did or didn't do, bit because the guy was in it for himself.
A million miles from what a United manager needs to be
Nope it doesn't matter. You cant deliver the message in the way that he did and expect to be taken seriously. Watch his post match interview after the Seville defeat and tell me that is someone you want anywhere near this club.While there's no denying Mourinho has an ego it actually does matter if he was right or not. Whether he bleeds Man Utd is somewhat irrelevant, he cares about his own CV and he wanted to be successful here.
In the summer a large majority sided with players like Martial and Pogba and the board did likewise, they didn't back him to do things his way and we're now in a situation where the same question will be asked of the fans and the board again, back those players who appear to be a large part of the problem or back the manager to try and turn things around his way
Mourinho was done here I don't disagree with that however that's not the point of this thread is it, it's was he right with the things he was saying or wasn't he. How he delivered said message is largely irrelevant if the same message is repeated by Ole and also ignoredNope it doesn't matter. You cant deliver the message in the way that he did and expect to be taken seriously. Watch his post match interview after the Seville defeat and tell me that is someone you want anywhere near this club.
Let us not forget that this is his team. Lots of money spent. He failed. It's that simple.
I think you hit the nail here. You just don’t see that in Jose’s record on identifying transfer targets.That's the thing, isn't it? We don't really know anything. We're spoonfed tidbits of information via the media (who naturally put their own spin on it) and are then left to draw conclusions which more often than not turn out to be false.
You make some good points though. It's genuinely perplexing for a manager with Jose's ability in the transfer market to get so many targets wrong.
Adding the fact that they would make us stronger away from home which was a problem for us last year. You really dont want Martial and Mata in deeper areas away from home, whereas Willian and Perisic are far more comfortable in those areas and playing on the break.I wanted to write a little about Perisic and Willian because they are often used as sticks to beat Moaninho with. First of all, I am under no illusion that these two players are world beaters, they are players below the level of world class, and only shine in a system that suits them. However, I believe that recruiting Lukaku, Perisic and Willian represented a coherent strategy in the market.
Lukaku's biggest strengths are his attacking of space and attacking of crosses. Perisic and Willian are both players that move defenders around with their dribbling and running, while also being good at supplying runners in the box (they have the added bonus of being very diligent in tracking back, but this is secondary). The plan in attack was to use Perisic and Willian to create space for Lukaku who would then make runs into the box to be fed by one of them.
Perisic would replace Martial while Willian would replace Lingard/Mata. So it makes sense to compare how they have performed over the past 3 seasons.
Martial - 51 goals and assists in 123 games, 2.41 games per g/a
Perisic - 61 goals and assists in 121 games, 1.98 games per g/a
Lingard - 37 goals and assists in 124 games, 3.35 games per g/a
Willian - 64 goals and assists in 147 games, 2.19 games per g/a
Not only would both be upgrades on our existing options, they would compliment our striker much more. It's possible that the three working together would be greater than the sum of its parts. The only issue would be age profile, but Willian and Perisic are still performing despite both being 30 years old.
I think this is a flawed thinking among most of our fans. What does a manager who care about United look like?It doesn't matter whether he was right or not. Mourinho was in it for himself. He didn't respect the club.
Had to go, not because of the job he did or didn't do, bit because the guy was in it for himself.
A million miles from what a United manager needs to be
This is a strong point that most fans are failing to see. Most would go straight to the Jose issue. Replace Jose with “manager” and we have a point that is valid.While there's no denying Mourinho has an ego it actually does matter if he was right or not. Whether he bleeds Man Utd is somewhat irrelevant, he cares about his own CV and he wanted to be successful here.
In the summer a large majority sided with players like Martial and Pogba and the board did likewise, they didn't back him to do things his way and we're now in a situation where the same question will be asked of the fans and the board again, back those players who appear to be a large part of the problem or back the manager to try and turn things around his way
Well, I guess Klopp and Poch are not outdated, they must be garbage because they won feck all, and they both have teams that are better at every single position.Probably no-one wanted LVG so he retired and no big clubs appears to want Mourinho. mourinho didn't win/challenge for the PL for 4 years long time in football and did nothing of note in the CL for even longer. We can safely say they're both outdated.
Exactly. And as Jose said in his recent interviews, it's a different type of job if you're there on a short contract to win or if you're in it for the long run to (re)build. The club lacked the balls to side with the manager instead of the primadona players. Jose's biggest crime was that he was not liked. Period.Yes, a CB to partner Lindelof who was progressing. Centre backs work in partnerships. If Bailly is not the answer you move on. City went and broke the transfer record for a goalkeeper when Bravo failed and he was more proven than Bailly.
Alexis was signed after the club turned down Jose’s proposals for a winger. Woodward would agree to signing Alexis because he is a big name wouldn’t he? He is a clown.
He didn’t make a single successful signing, he did not improve any of our players yet we still finished 2nd? Something isn’t adding up.
What in Mourinho's career shows that he should be the one responsible for a rebuild?Exactly. And as Jose said in his recent interviews, it's a different type of job if you're there on a short contract to win or if you're in it for the long run to (re)build. The club lacked the balls to side with the manager instead of the primadona players. Jose's biggest crime was that he was not liked. Period.
That is not the question that was askedDo you think the situation would be better if he was still managing?
The second Chelsea title, for example. The fact that he knows football, unlike the mob that blamed him for everything and claimed that these players are wonderful and only need a manager like this or that.What in Mourinho's career shows that he should be the one responsible for a rebuild?
Only if these "have been" players would have come cheap. Willian was priced at 50mil, remember? I still don't know the reason behind signing Matic, Lukaku etc and you want us to add another turds in Perisic and Willian who wouldn't have come cheap and would then have us saddled with another shite burden? No, thank you. Why don't you recommend them for City?I wanted to write a little about Perisic and Willian because they are often used as sticks to beat Moaninho with. First of all, I am under no illusion that these two players are world beaters, they are players below the level of world class, and only shine in a system that suits them. However, I believe that recruiting Lukaku, Perisic and Willian represented a coherent strategy in the market.
Lukaku's biggest strengths are his attacking of space and attacking of crosses. Perisic and Willian are both players that move defenders around with their dribbling and running, while also being good at supplying runners in the box (they have the added bonus of being very diligent in tracking back, but this is secondary). The plan in attack was to use Perisic and Willian to create space for Lukaku who would then make runs into the box to be fed by one of them.
Perisic would replace Martial while Willian would replace Lingard/Mata. So it makes sense to compare how they have performed over the past 3 seasons.
Martial - 51 goals and assists in 123 games, 2.41 games per g/a
Perisic - 61 goals and assists in 121 games, 1.98 games per g/a
Lingard - 37 goals and assists in 124 games, 3.35 games per g/a
Willian - 64 goals and assists in 147 games, 2.19 games per g/a
Not only would both be upgrades on our existing options, they would compliment our striker much more. It's possible that the three working together would be greater than the sum of its parts. The only issue would be age profile, but Willian and Perisic are still performing despite both being 30 years old.
And after winning a title in his second stint with Chelsea he had them in 16th place in December. And he should not have been given a long term contract with the club.The second Chelsea title, for example. The fact that he knows football, unlike the mob that blamed him for everything and claimed that these players are wonderful and only need a manager like this or that.
But the other question is, if he's not the one to do the rebuild, then why give him a long-term contract?
Woody and the board - where could you find a better qualified bunch to make judgements in top tier football?I think Woody and the board had lost faith in Jose's ability to identify the correct transfer targets, due to every one of his previous targets being either the wrong fit or simply not good enough. They were reluctant to hand him more money and they had every reason to be.
Great players can make the players around them appear great, grab the game by the scruff of the neck, lead a team that's getting beat to fighting back, by leading the way for others to follow, so in saying that, is Pogba one of them players ?? Cause he makes the most noise both Verbally and even Visually off the pitch, do you get what I mean ?[Then clearly Mourinho didn't know the player he was getting in Pogba if he thought he would be the solution to all of his problems, not to mention he's the one player along with Martial who helped him keep his job longer than he should have and never lowered himself to Mourinho's incessant talking. No one who has ever played with Pogba will tell you he was a locker room cancer. General statements like pogba is what makes everything wrong this club is just nonsense, you're talking about a player that has 30 goals/assist this season playing with a team completely devoid of confidence or ideas without him. No one even comes close, even in a game like today he was the only one who created something. You're just venting at the wrong player, but Pogba's always been THE scapegoat for this team. He deserves slack, they all do but you need to have a look at what you're saying because you don't have an embarrassment of riches and if you think getting rid of Pogba and finding someone who can even come close to what he's capable of is going to be an easy task for a club with no CL and not much momentum, you are in for a rude awakening.
What are these abilities, he has never been in a position to actually dictate transfer policies? He has always worked with a DOF and technical directors.That's the thing, isn't it? We don't really know anything. We're spoonfed tidbits of information via the media (who naturally put their own spin on it) and are then left to draw conclusions which more often than not turn out to be false.
You make some good points though. It's genuinely perplexing for a manager with Jose's ability in the transfer market to get so many targets wrong.
If I were to guess, Jose needed some senior players with fighting spirit and a work ethic in the squad to help drive our young and weak minded players. We were doing much better when Zlatan was here. After he left, Matic was the only senior player who understand what Jose demands from his players. Jose just needed more of those influences in the squad.Only if these "have been" players would have come cheap. Willian was priced at 50mil, remember? I still don't know the reason behind signing Matic, Lukaku etc and you want us to add another turds in Perisic and Willian who wouldn't have come cheap and would then have us saddled with another shite burden? No, thank you. Why don't you recommend them for City?
Your question was, did he ever rebuild a team. The answer is yes, and he did it with bargain signings. Don't change the subject.And after winning a title in his second stint with Chelsea he had them in 16th place in December. And he should not have been given a long term contract with the club.
I think the most glaring thing about that video is how truest awful we have been in the market. Buying at huge prices with huge contracts, and then letting players walk away for free or very low fees. Whoever has been doing our transfer deals has been taken for a mug.Your question was, did he ever rebuild a team. The answer is yes, and he did it with bargain signings. Don't change the subject.
Matic was already at the decline stage while he was at Chelsea. The fact that Mourinho signed him at an exorbitant price is even more ridiculous. If we had allowed Mourinho to continue his spending spree, the likes of Willian and Perisic would have been brought in at enormous amount of money.If I were to guess, Jose needed some senior players with fighting spirit and a work ethic in the squad to help drive our young and weak minded players. We were doing much better when Zlatan was here. After he left, Matic was the only senior player who understand what Jose demands from his players. Jose just needed more of those influences in the squad.
I think we have seen enough from Dalot and Fred to suggest that they could be United players. Dalot especially because he is only 20 and you can't dismiss him just because he's had a couple of bad games being played out of position.People seem to be suggesting that he should have been kept because he was right all along.
Can we all agree that his signings were awful and made us worse?
Mikhi/Bailly/Dalot/Matic/Sanchez/Fred have all been absolutely fecking horrific.
I find this post quite funny. As if Mourinho has control over the prices we pay. You might want to have a word with Woodward and Matt Judge, ever since they took over we have been absolute mugs in the market. You can guarantee that they would have been punts had Barca, Bayern, Juventus bought them.Matic was already at the decline stage while he was at Chelsea. The fact that Mourinho signed him at an exorbitant price is even more ridiculous. If we had allowed Mourinho to continue his spending spree, the likes of Willian and Perisic would have been brought in at enormous amount of money.
I wouldn't have minded if they were just punts but to sign them at the price quoted for them? That's ridiculous.
Actually a very good post. It’s just about the direction and ethos, I’m pretty sure it’s not how most united fans wanted to play and unfortunately for José it left him in a position where he was half trying to play his way half trying to please the united faithful. Eventually he just lost it with everything and everyone but like many have alluded to it’s a structural problem. United need a rebuild and it doesn’t even have to be a lengthy one it’s just if the fans have the patience for it.I wanted to write a little about Perisic and Willian because they are often used as sticks to beat Moaninho with. First of all, I am under no illusion that these two players are world beaters, they are players below the level of world class, and only shine in a system that suits them. However, I believe that recruiting Lukaku, Perisic and Willian represented a coherent strategy in the market.
Lukaku's biggest strengths are his attacking of space and attacking of crosses. Perisic and Willian are both players that move defenders around with their dribbling and running, while also being good at supplying runners in the box (they have the added bonus of being very diligent in tracking back, but this is secondary). The plan in attack was to use Perisic and Willian to create space for Lukaku who would then make runs into the box to be fed by one of them.
Perisic would replace Martial while Willian would replace Lingard/Mata. So it makes sense to compare how they have performed over the past 3 seasons.
Martial - 51 goals and assists in 123 games, 2.41 games per g/a
Perisic - 61 goals and assists in 121 games, 1.98 games per g/a
Lingard - 37 goals and assists in 124 games, 3.35 games per g/a
Willian - 64 goals and assists in 147 games, 2.19 games per g/a
Not only would both be upgrades on our existing options, they would compliment our striker much more. It's possible that the three working together would be greater than the sum of its parts. The only issue would be age profile, but Willian and Perisic are still performing despite both being 30 years old.