It's FcBarca, he would write something against Jose in a thread about the climate or ecology.How is that even related to this thread? FCBarca and Making sense, mutually exclusive.
Also@ people who gets their knickers in twist for everything related to Jose, there are few who are relentless.
Jose Mourinho's biggest weakness as a manager
- Thread starter GM K
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I wouldn't be surprised if he blames Jose for terrorism also.
Your point is valid and for me this is a weakness. I would dearly love to see many more youth players come through in the premier league. The national team is without doubt suffering because of this. I also believe the fans would connect with the players in a better way if more home grown talent came through. At the moment we are all cheering on these foreign squillionaires many of whom have very little connection with the lifestyles of the their fans.
I'd probably use a different letter than "E".Will only quote you now, because i don't take most of the other people serious, given the kind of their answers..
You should read my statement again. In no way what so ever did i say what you imply..quite the opposite. Twice by the way. This was already a clarification from before. I'd say read my statement again, but i want to make it easy now, so no more misunderstandings happen:
I am an extreme "E"(about 85%,staying with the MBTI letters for now, because most people don't know the OCEAN/FFM model) myself, and i thought this “Some of them can win a big match, what I think they can’t do is win it and cope with that intensity, especially that mental intensity, the focus, the concentration, the responsibility, the determination."and derivations of that sentence regaring other areas of business about quite some "I"people before getting accustomed with psychology theories like MBTI, OCEAN/FFM and what not. The reason was their (seemingly) lack of participation in groups, in discussions, their body language, etc..all those "I" behaviors. In reality it was not true - those "I" people had the same responsibility, determination, intensity and what not like the "E" people i knew - i just didn't know it at that time, because they didn't show it in the same way i would. Only when i took classes like leadership competencies i learned, and i began to understand what's behind it. Now i know that your kind is not less capable then our kind
The thing is, i don't think Mourinho ever took those lessons. Most people don't have a clue about human relations, i know quite some small or mid-sized company bosses, including my dad, and noone of them has had a clue in those business based psychological theories. It takes time and effort, and i guess most football managers have never heard about it...especially when some success proves them right. I think Mourinho, just like i did in the past, is confusing introvert behavior with the bolded part in my statement. I had this opinion already before his interview, and this part:
just proves it for me. Especially since many of those players have never been called out before, by any other manager.
Your reading capabilities don't go beyond the title?
It does and while the OP felt the issue to discuss his man management skills as being the biggest weakness (Odd for a coach to have this as their biggest weakness). I acknowledge this to be a weakness of his but the bigger one is the one I pointed out - his teams never play entertaining football.
Many who value results over the actual play will of course disagree but point remains
I don't think that's the case at all.
What Mourinho is driving at is not "mentality" in the sense of training hard or eating right etc, but the unconscious stuff. It's all about levels. All professional players must have the drive and ambition to get to the pro-game and will have made sacrifices along the way, but there's only a select few who can handle the pressure of playing for the very top clubs, and fewer again who can turn it on at the highest level in the biggest games.
A good example was Ben Foster who looked a world beater on loan at Watford when people were taking pot shots at him 30 times a game. At United, when he'd have to go 20 minutes without touching the ball he seemed to struggle to maintain that concentration. that is very specific to keepers of course but it highlights the point.
Some players will move to clubs like United and despite having the talent will wilt under the pressure. I suspect there are some who don't put in the effort but I suspect it's far more common that those players simply don't have the mental strength to produce the performances consistently enough when it's expected of them in a good side, rather than being a shining light in an average team.
It's always easy to call somebody mentally weak when you simply can't manage them. Being able to deal with different personalities is a rare ability. That doesn't mean you get along with everybody, but that you know how to treat certain players compared to others. Ferguson was outstanding in that regard, hence why certain players performed much better under him than in other places.
I take it they didn't play entertaining football when they scored the most goals in the league and set a new record in 2011/12 either.
Still though, you're intentionally going off topic, derailing this thread with your agenda, just stop.
I think creating the siege mentality with the "everybody is against us" attitude is the factor behind his success and his short tenures. I remember a panel of journalists discussing his short tenures and repeated fallouts (in most cases) and the point made was that he creates this siege attitude which brings out the best in his teams but after a while it becomes mentally draining for the team, coupled with him publically digging out players along the way, causing needless problems with the board and the media with his complaining and supposed unfair treatment that he and his team always get and eventually when he has upset too many people he ends up parting ways.
Biggest weakness is not killing off games when the world and his brother can see they are ripe for the picking.... He sits back inviting teams on to us.
Extremely subjective statement.
Football is like art or music. It's all a matter of perspectives. While Reggae is dull to some, some others will swear that it's the only type of music that is exciting. The same can be said about classical music or rap.
While some see the art only in attacking play, some see it in defensive play and some see it in both. Was Chiellini's unbelievable intervention against Monaco in the CL semi final as entertaining as Messi's curler at the final second against Madrid during the last el-classico? Was Milan's master class defensive structure in the 1990s as entertaining as Barca's masterclass attacking structure in the last 10 years? It's all about perspectives.
Who defines 'entertaining' in music or art or football? Do we even get the definition of 'attacking' or 'defensive' teams right? Which team was 'attacking' and which one was 'defensive'? Juventus or Barcelona?
Just saying that (even though I think I understand what you mean), your statement was a bit too sweeping and general.
Many people will disagree with you that his Inter, Real Madrid, first Chelsea squad and second Chelsea squad (title winning year) were not entertaining. I remember how I used to be astounded by the blistering attacking pace of Ronaldo / Benzema / Higuain / Di Maria set loose by the incredible passing skills of Alonso and Ozil. In some of the big games, yes, I hated the sit back approach, but generally, I didn't find that Madrid team dull.
Another Mourinho weakness is that he tends to underwhelm in the market (except last season, of course), going for squad players instead of obvious first teamers. Specially this coming season, where he surely hadn't the time to figure perfectly the new additions to the team. I have the feeling United's summer transfer market will be very underwhelming comparing to City's, for instance, and that's if Woodward manages Mourinho's primary targets (Griezmann, etc.), otherwise we might see some harsh comments by the manager just after his well deserved vacations.
Not true.
Chelsea - Drogba, Carvalho, Ferreira, Robben, Cech, Essien, Del Horno, Cole, Ballack all signed for first team.
Inter - Quareshma, Milito, Eto'o, Sneijder, Motta, Lucio - All first team players even though Quareshma was huge flop. Also he signed 5 first team players in 2009-10 and then added Pandev in Jan window.
Madrid: Di Maria, Ozil, Khedira, Modric - all first choice players. Then players like Coentrao, Carvalho, Varane who played lot for first team.
Chelsea: Willian, Zouma, Matic, Costa, Fabregas - All first team players.
Obviously he has signed squad players and players who moved on very quickly but he knows how to build team very quickly.
You clearly got carried away there with Del Horno, Cole, Quaresma, Pandev and Zouma. Anyway, your list only makes sense if you put the Filipe Luís, Schürrle, Salah, etc., etc. type of players. My point was not so much that they were signed for the first team, but more that most of them weren't absolutely clear first teamers (like Neymar or Greizmann would be) and it showed. Mourinho, even when he's in the most powerful clubs in the world, doesn't really act like it when buying players, perhaps because he's too eager not to mess with the squad's sensibilities, and that might have cost him in Real Madrid and Chelsea (last time).
SAF changed the way we handle European games by then. We sat back to contain them and hit them on the counter. Only difference was whenever we go forward, we scored.You're making massive assumptions that mourinho doesn't understand introverts, which is not what he's implied whatsoever. One can be extraverted and very weak mentally, unable to cope with any sort of serious pressure. You think that gets past mourinho because the player makes a lot of noise? Please. I genuinely don't think you understand what introvert means. It doesn't necessarily make one shy and unable to display their qualities lol.Will only quote you now, because i don't take most of the other people serious, given the kind of their answers..
You should read my statement again. In no way what so ever did i say what you imply..quite the opposite. Twice by the way. This was already a clarification from before. I'd say read my statement again, but i want to make it easy now, so no more misunderstandings happen:
I am an extreme "E"(about 85%,staying with the MBTI letters for now, because most people don't know the OCEAN/FFM model) myself, and i thought this “Some of them can win a big match, what I think they can’t do is win it and cope with that intensity, especially that mental intensity, the focus, the concentration, the responsibility, the determination."and derivations of that sentence regaring other areas of business about quite some "I"people before getting accustomed with psychology theories like MBTI, OCEAN/FFM and what not. The reason was their (seemingly) lack of participation in groups, in discussions, their body language, etc..all those "I" behaviors. In reality it was not true - those "I" people had the same responsibility, determination, intensity and what not like the "E" people i knew - i just didn't know it at that time, because they didn't show it in the same way i would. Only when i took classes like leadership competencies i learned, and i began to understand what's behind it. Now i know that your kind is not less capable then our kind
The thing is, i don't think Mourinho ever took those lessons. Most people don't have a clue about human relations, i know quite some small or mid-sized company bosses, including my dad, and noone of them has had a clue in those business based psychological theories. It takes time and effort, and i guess most football managers have never heard about it...especially when some success proves them right. I think Mourinho, just like i did in the past, is confusing introvert behavior with the bolded part in my statement. I had this opinion already before his interview, and this part:
just proves it for me. Especially since many of those players have never been called out before, by any other manager.
You also misunderstood what i was saying obviously. I hope the above explains enough. It's obviously not only the E/I dilemma, it's different mental aspects as well, i didn't want to go too deep in a football forum. Valencia is not a clear "I" for me. He is shy, yes, but it probably has to do with him not being comfortable in English, being in another culture, etc. Even i am shy, when i talk to people from complete different cultures..his body language however doesn't look like "I" for me..at least not distinctive, both on and off pitch. It's the obvious "I"s (>70%) Jose seems to have a problem with..Martial seems as "I" as you can get for example.
Thanks for the book tip, another one for my car (audiobook obviously).
I am convinced that not a single senior player of our club has a "weak mentality" in contrary to most forum users here. My little half brother played at the youth of a professional club for quite some time, so i know how they handle the kids there...10 year olds must cope with more pressure then your average McK consultant. Drives me mad when uneducated people throw around those nonsense accusations while never achieving anything close to that (being a pro footballer) in their lifes.
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If you meant superstars like Griezmann then no, Jose didn't. Before last season the highest Jose spent was around 30 Million on single player.
I'd say his weakness is his inability to coach passing well from the back, also not implementing a high press. These are the reasons I think he struggles so much with pep teams, or any high caliber ball playing side. in terms of zonal defending he's probably the best around. Very hard to get numerical advantages over a Jose team.
Isn't there a contradiction here?
Not all teams implement a high press and it's not nessasarily the only way to play especially if you are counterattacking. also high pressing mean you can compromise zonal marking as literally players are out of position pushed up attempting to press
Also Mourinho's team didn't always struggle against pressing teams.
Also what the fcuk is coaching passing well from the back?
Van Gaal couldn't teach Smalling or Jones to do this (god love him for trying) and to some extent I think it depends on the balance of your central midfield
Often the full backs push up into midfield leaving 2 cbs to hold position while the DM drops deep or inter changes positions with a CB. I don't think we currently have players to do that, it's not necessarily a tactical failure from Mourinho
His mouth.
Not coaching a high press isnt a weakness, its a choice of what tactic a coach wants to utilise. Just because you want to see high pressing doesnt mean a coach using another approach has a weakness, its a difference of footballing idealogy.
Biggest weakness is winning the champions league with Porto, he's never lived that down, and is constantly expected to work magic at teams from the get go.
Just realised this sounds a bit like when you have an interview and decide to list a strength as your weakness so you don't look shite.
Just realised this sounds a bit like when you have an interview and decide to list a strength as your weakness so you don't look shite.
As a trained Organisational Psychologist I completely agree with you.
Mourinho should be a student of the game and should incorporate some of possession based principles in possession when playing against possession based side.
Also be a.collector of world's best talents in defense as well as attack.
Give defensive freedom to best attacking players in a system which has more defensive balance.
Also be a.collector of world's best talents in defense as well as attack.
Give defensive freedom to best attacking players in a system which has more defensive balance.
So Mourinho should stop being Mourinho. Ok then.
Because united has to remain united. When he gets his team.
And that's the problem.
IMO, phrases like United way or United play style are not correct. The correct phrases are " SAF way " and " SAF play style " and there's big difference between both phrases.
Our building way of the team and play style was SAF's. His era is over. Each new manager will build the team on the way he wants, and with the style he always succeeded at before. The clubs identity on the field will that of its current manager. All clubs around us are the same. We won't mold each manager to play as SAF exactly because we miss the man it's impossible.
The faster we accept this fact, the better for us.
Mourinho should be more like Mourinho actually. He built his career by adapting to and overcoming the current football tactical climate, he pioneered the 4231 to beat the 442 that was being played by everyone and their dog at the time and then he pioneered the 433 when everyone copied his 4231. Ever since his Real Madrid stint he hasn't shown much, if any growth tactically. Football has moved on from 6 man defences and fullbacks who can't do anything other than stick a leg in now and then in their own box, Mourinho hasn't yet.
Nonsense, attacking football is United's way and SAF respected that and succeeded because of it. At the richest club in the world, with the second highest wage budget in the world it should be no other way either. No ones expecting him to do a Pep and play 6 attackers in his starting 11 but he needs to compromise with the values of the club and stop shutting up shop every time we score a goal or play our rivals. When he has his own players in after this window, i fully expect to see a change in playstyle.
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United way is attacking way, and Jose mourinho is a phenomenal manager who can adapt and change too and play attacking if he has got the team.
The key is to build that team.
Time to move away from a traditional 4231 which is very predictable now.
Respected what, mate ? SAF was here for more than 20 years. He was the one who built the most successful era of the club. Everything that was done in his era here was his. No one on the board forced him to attack or build the team in a certain way. That WAS his play style and that WAS his way of building the team that lead us to glory. We got used to him for more than 20 years so for us he was United and United was him, simple as that.
I'm not saying Jose should park the bus but what i say is let the current manager build the team on the way he sees it best for him to succeed, whether it's attacking or playing counters or both ( and that what I expect Jose will do anyway ), then if he failed in winning anything, sack him.
Forcing a manager to build or play a certain style regardless of his thoughts is the first step for the failure. You shouldn't have hired him from start then !
Manchester United and Matt Busby. A defensive manager will never succeed at United and even Jose knows it and has alluded to it in past interviews. He isn't bigger than the club like he was at Chelsea and has to compromise and grow into the role if he wants success here. Ending games with no goals scored and 30% possession is unacceptable and shameful when you look at our current wage bill and the calibre of some of the players in our team. As i said, it's most likely down to the fact that he doesn't rate half of our squad and i expect big changes next season or a title/CL if our style stays the same.
That doesn't mean what he did here wasn't his favored play style. No manager would have passed 27 years here in a style that isn't his. Everything happened in the club was under SAF agreement.
Again, no one is saying we should park the bus every game, but can we please let our manager build the team on the way he thinks it what brings him success ?
And I sure he's going to attack anyway but not in all games of course to be prepared for.
Of course
.I think you underestimate how far raw talent can get people. In this case, he's literally talking about two players that fit that description precisely. Two very young players, with loads of talent, that have probably not been pushed very hard in their development because they've just been the best at every level, until they weren't.
Good, we reached an agreement on something.Of course
Agree with all of that.
Picking fights with the world, his cousin and his wife