These suggestions of 4D chess are just denial. Denial to accept reality that he may not be as emotionally collected or mature as his carriage suggests.So it's just Mastermind Mourinho doing his usual stuff, and its just us mortals who can't read it.
Riiiiight.
Jose saving his skin - yet again.. (Manager v Players blame game)
- Thread starter Raees
- Start date
- Status
The redeeming features when looking at Jose is that we are still 2nd in the league and in the FA cup semi final. We are still rebuilding too - that much is clear. I still do not think this squad is good enough to challenge City, or compete against the leading teams in the Champions league. For me, we are 3/4 positions short but we are improving, certainly in terms of the overall strength of the squad. He did inherit a bit of a mess to be fair to him.
I can deal with the Sevilla game taken into isolation but what is really making me lose faith in the project is Jose and his churlish behaviour, that is often at the expense of the team and results. For example, his treatment of Luke Shaw is just pathetic. If he isnt good enough, get rid thats fine, no one would argue. You do not public insult the player and the persons intelligence. He has about 4 games in a row and I thought he was starting to look decent and then he gets dropped out of nowhere and plays a 32 year old winger at left back. Its like a power play - Jose showing everyone that he is in charge. Its absolutely unnecessary.
Even some of the overly negative tactics and lineups - to me its like he is employing the tactics simply to make a point that he is in total charge.
Honestly, I think if you could time travel and came back to tell Jose that Martial was the future of the football club he would drop him just to prove a point. Its pathetic.
I can deal with the Sevilla game taken into isolation but what is really making me lose faith in the project is Jose and his churlish behaviour, that is often at the expense of the team and results. For example, his treatment of Luke Shaw is just pathetic. If he isnt good enough, get rid thats fine, no one would argue. You do not public insult the player and the persons intelligence. He has about 4 games in a row and I thought he was starting to look decent and then he gets dropped out of nowhere and plays a 32 year old winger at left back. Its like a power play - Jose showing everyone that he is in charge. Its absolutely unnecessary.
Even some of the overly negative tactics and lineups - to me its like he is employing the tactics simply to make a point that he is in total charge.
Honestly, I think if you could time travel and came back to tell Jose that Martial was the future of the football club he would drop him just to prove a point. Its pathetic.
Earlier in the season, all we'd hear from Jose was how it was a great group of players... all working really hard etc. nothing but praise. He would rarely be critical of them, even after a poor performance.
Now the pressure has turned up a notch after the Champions League exit... he's completely turned the fire on them rather than accept that any fault might lay at his door. Personally, I'd rather see him protect the players in public. He should take a leaf out of Sir Alex's book of man management.
Now the pressure has turned up a notch after the Champions League exit... he's completely turned the fire on them rather than accept that any fault might lay at his door. Personally, I'd rather see him protect the players in public. He should take a leaf out of Sir Alex's book of man management.
This thread is gross.
And racist?
The biggest problem with Casillas was how much influence he had with a sector of the journalist so that divided the team and also the fans. For the most part I think it was justified to bench Casillas as he was playing bad but it all escalated so much to the point it was needed to get rid of both of them.
Oh Neymar would show plenty of personality, so much so, I doubt Jose will know what to do with it all. Would be fun to see those two at it.
Agreed. I'd be shocked if he could win the league again with his type of football and players.
We're unfortunately caught up in his crap though.
That’s the impression I got as well. It had reached a point where there was no way Mourinho could stay on.
That is incredibly harsh. We got Ibra on a free and he was very good until getting injured. Sanchez has played, what, 7-8 games? and was on a completely different level to either Rashford or Martial at Arsenal (he should be playing on the right IMO, though). Lukaku is 24 years old and has scored 25 goals in his first season. The jury is out on Pogba and Lindelof but it's not as if they both haven't shown genuine promise, it would be foolish to write either off at this stage.
Inter, maybe. There he did buy most of the treble-winning first team, sure. Chelsea? No way. Terry, Lampard, Makelele, Gallas, Duff, Joe Cole, Gudjohnsen - all played over 40 games in 04/05 and most of them were key players. And he obviously relied a LOT on the existing key players at Madrid; of his signings, only Di Maria, Khedira and Özil played a major part in winning the league in 2012. Of the ten players who made the most appearances in 2011/12 for Madrid, eight had already been at the club when Mourinho had arrived.
And he was not in control of the transfers at any of those clubs.
Funny isn't it.So it's just Mastermind Mourinho doing his usual stuff, and its just us mortals who can't read it.
Riiiiight.
The apologists bench would go through anything to find sense in every nonensense Mourinho spout. This guy goes around publicly shaming and bullying his own players and the conclusion drawn from that is that he's deflecting attention from them to himself
The guy is doing the opposite, he's delecting any blame from himself while throwing the players under the bus.
I remember hearing that Mourinho true colors usually show when the going get tough. Obviously we all knew about Mourinho's past antics and we were hoping he'd learned a lot after what he'd been through.
I told myself that these talks of Mourinho meltdowns and drama are in the past and are just rival fans wishful thinking. I was convinced that for a person who saw himself dismissed from 2 of his previous jobs due to certain antics which include falling out with his own players and such that he'd have learn and change. Little did I know I was a fool to even hope.
The man was happy with his squad, he was happy seeing them defend against Liverpool, he was smugly claiming that our attack is set and doesn't addition, he was happy declaring at the start of the season that we'd be challenging both for the title and the top teams in Europe in the CL as well as do well in the cups. Fast forward he get dumped from the CL mosly due to his cowardly tactics, get called on his tactical and approach mistakes, the man ego took a hit and decided to throw his toys out the pram. Blames everyone else but himself.
I told myself that these talks of Mourinho meltdowns and drama are in the past and are just rival fans wishful thinking. I was convinced that for a person who saw himself dismissed from 2 of his previous jobs due to certain antics which include falling out with his own players and such that he'd have learn and change. Little did I know I was a fool to even hope.
The man was happy with his squad, he was happy seeing them defend against Liverpool, he was smugly claiming that our attack is set and doesn't addition, he was happy declaring at the start of the season that we'd be challenging both for the title and the top teams in Europe in the CL as well as do well in the cups. Fast forward he get dumped from the CL mosly due to his cowardly tactics, get called on his tactical and approach mistakes, the man ego took a hit and decided to throw his toys out the pram. Blames everyone else but himself.
Agreed. His tactics are debatable (they helped us beat Liverpool but cost us against Sevilla) but his comments about the players, especially Shaw, are self-defeating if he actually wants them to improve. If he's using them as a scapegoat or trying to bully them into leaving, then what he's saying makes complete sense but it makes him a liability for the club.
I just wish he'd shut up. No one buys his antics anymore and other coaches are making him look outdated. He's embarrassing himself.
I don't understand why Mourinho always points fingers towards City and Pep? Why its always about the players Pep inherited, or the money they spend?
What about Tottenham and Liverpool ? Two teams with far lesser resources compared to Mourinho, and even though United sit 2-3 points above the two and i don't think its that significant , but whats significant is that both teams play far better, attacking, systematic football. Mourinho has spent more money then these two teams and still the standard of football is less then the two. Mourinho never talks about their Squad, Heritage or Money.
What about Tottenham and Liverpool ? Two teams with far lesser resources compared to Mourinho, and even though United sit 2-3 points above the two and i don't think its that significant , but whats significant is that both teams play far better, attacking, systematic football. Mourinho has spent more money then these two teams and still the standard of football is less then the two. Mourinho never talks about their Squad, Heritage or Money.
Last edited by a moderator:
Right what?So it's just Mastermind Mourinho doing his usual stuff, and its just us mortals who can't read it.
Riiiiight.
You have to have been quite easily distracted if you didnt notice how he literally lied post Sevilla how 'my players did their best" and 'we played well at this point and that" then stirred up controversy by claiming this shit "isnt new to United". Then come Friday he went on a 12 minute rant successfully preventing any journalist asking tough questions like why he picked his tactics and 11 that failed him vs Sevilla, why Pogba and Alexis can't seem to perform currently and what he has to say about fans being restless with the tumescent football of recent months. Plus Lukaku claiming some team mates were hiding and scared. That was standard him.But chicken little and his clones have started a hostile take over in here....
Last edited:
Why, because he has no spine and can't handle being called out? Luke Shaw's work ethic has been a problem in the past, he has admitted it himself.
I don't agree with the public shaming, but if the players can't handle it, it also says something about them.
you have to be a special kind of naive to believe he had no input as into who was signed for him. Especially at Inter and Madrid. He was even sacked at Chelsea the first time for going to war with Abrahmovic for forcing Ballack and Schevchenko down his throat.
Ranieri was widely considered to be the man who bought in the best talent, Jose Moulded them into a mentally strong organised unit and added the defensive resolve ... can't take away anything from Mourinho Mk1, he knew in those days how to get a squad playing for him better than anyone, including all the fringe players.
In his first season at Chelsea he brought in Cech, Fereira, Carvalho, Alex, Tiago Mendes, Robben, Alcides, Mateja Kezmann. Of whom 6 became first team regular.
Then he followed that up with adding Essien, Wright-Phillips, Jarosik, Lassana Diarra and Del Horno. That's 13 players in 2 windows.
At Real he may have relied a lot on previous purchases. But Real had recruited very well
So he was just augmenting an existing core of class.
At United he has inherited 2 changes of transfer directions, yet its still Fergie's old boys still holding the majority of key positions in the team. Yet in 4 windows, Mourinho has only added 7 players. 3 in the first. 3 in the second and Alexis as the outlier. Frankly its no surprise his team is not yet as set as any of his past teams were after 2 seasons.
Why would he want to improve and stay at United if the manager is saying this kind of stuff about him? I'd have understood if he left in the summer but if I was him, my priority would be to get away from Mourinho because aside from occasional appearances followed by public insults there's no reason to stay. He'd get more support and game time as well as a better role for him in the team at another club. His best chance at improving is somewhere else.
It's actually quite simple - he's obsessed with showing that he's better than Pep. Think he got passed over for the job at Barcelona and they chose Pep. Ever since then he's got a bee in his bonnet about Pepito.
Same for me. I was totally wrong. I just hope United isn't too damaged before he's sacked - which he will be as he can't help himself and it will become untenable for us to keep him.
So Luke is more of a problem than anyone thought. Maybe why Jose didn't want him at Chelsea. Luke looked great pre-season, but now looks like he wants to play, wants the rewards, but is not willing to put the hard work to earn them.
Mourinho being unpleasant and narcissistic is hardly news. He has a history of embarrassing himself and the clubs he works for. Surely that is part of the deal when you sign him up. What you expect in return for this inconvenience is winning games and trophies.
The debate around Mourinho should always be whether his behaviour is worth what he is currently producing in terms of results. There is little debate that he is capable of being unlikable.
The debate around Mourinho should always be whether his behaviour is worth what he is currently producing in terms of results. There is little debate that he is capable of being unlikable.
Maybe because he could be the starting left back for United if he played well and put the work in? He's also been praised by Jose in the past.
He needs more support? He's a grown man given more than one chance at Manchester United. Does he need to grow up?
Please look at his own quotes about how he needed to work harder. That amazes me. He gets to a club like United and does not get in shape etc....the guy needs a freaking wake up call.
The last game he did not work hard. He did not get forward. I want him to succeed here obviously but he's been infuriating.
Getting more time and better role, I can't argue with that. If he works hard it could be here.
It's actually quite obvious that Jose does not bring the best out of our players currently. And it is not about just individual form, it's also about the whole team, playing together as a team. Look how lost we lookin games and you should realize the players as a group is not on top
He's fast running out of options after this job. Unlike our fans, most boards of big clubs see through his shit and will not want to touch him with a barge pole when he's back on the market.[/QUOTE]
Exactly right, history is always important and his history is telling a story. I hoped he would change at MU and possibly become a long termer but history is playing it's part. I still wish he would get smart and sort the team out so that it has width and an attacking and defending flow, and not playing with no connection between defence and attack. Surely he can see the problem and rectify it!
He has one more season here and I'm hoping he will get the players the team needs and shot of those who we dont. If he doesnt change his ideology it will be another long year for all.
Exactly right, history is always important and his history is telling a story. I hoped he would change at MU and possibly become a long termer but history is playing it's part. I still wish he would get smart and sort the team out so that it has width and an attacking and defending flow, and not playing with no connection between defence and attack. Surely he can see the problem and rectify it!
He has one more season here and I'm hoping he will get the players the team needs and shot of those who we dont. If he doesnt change his ideology it will be another long year for all.
another thing Im wondering about is this narrative going on in the media and Mourinho bashes that Shaw is a pussy with fragile confidence that needs an arm around the shoulder treatment. For If memory serves me well, every time he has been publicly criticised by his managers, from Poch to LVG now to the "Dark triad' one, all his ever done is react positively, take responsibility, work his ass off and comeback stronger, pleasing all of them afterwards, each time. Ill be shocked if this time will be any different. Personally he strikes me as a mentally tough S.O.G.
Sorry but Cech had already signed for Chelsea in the Jan before Jose arrived, and two of those in Kez and Tiago were sold after their first season, any chance of clearly stating who Alcides is?
Tiago was a first team regular. Even if he was sold after a season
Alcides was a flop. Thats why you dont even know him
Well, then that looks bad on Mourinho, to be fair. Maybe he re-watched the Sevilla game and was already feeling upset about the lack of character his players showed. He's definitely not without blame, and does say some things that are harsh or out of bounds at times.
Right what?
But chicken little and his clones have started a hostile take over in here....
Completely agree. He conveniently dodged the point the whole world is trying to make that it was not the fact that they went out in the pre-quarters was the problem but the way the did. If my memory serves me right, the last 2 times before this that United went out in the knockout stage of the champions league was thanks to a dodgy sending off of Nani against Real Madrid and after putting up a really good performance against Bayern Munich.
Also, this comment about how Shaw did not attack like they had trained for 2 days after the Sevilla game makes me wonder why have United not been practicing to attack for 1.5 years under Mourinho? Was Sevilla the first time United played so defensively? We have been playing with this "wait and watch" type of approach since Mourinho arrived. It has been his style wherever he played. Suddenly he makes it seem like he likes attacking football and the players are not willing to do it.
Yes 1.5 years of no consistent tactics and approach, no cohesion and understanding, even no stable starting 11 inspite of having bought 8 new players. Then after the shitshow in Europe, he is claiming that for 2 days they practiced attacking but the players still do not get it
The meltdown is already there.This thread is like the United version of DT and Claude locked in cage for 24 hours.
He doesn't get it. He doesn't want to be second but it seems he is already getting his excuses in for next season too. Somehow the last 2 interviews have shown some people here that Mourinho is up for a fight. If anything it seems he is already laying down tools and pushing the blame elsewhere.
And Ty. Don't forget Ty.
- Status