Jose took an almighty risk today

[prtk0811]

Blaming it all on jose is not right,

1st goal was a really unlucky deflected goal , 2nd goals were individulal mistakes by 2-3 players, and we missed a really good chance in the first half with rooney not teeing up mata.

Jose dint get tactically outclassed, Young and Fosu mensah injury in 2 games was really unlucky too, who could have played as wingbacks in a 343 and set us up more balanced.

We have been back passing too much in posession in the final third because of slower transition with slower players and lack of movement and presision have really struggled to score goals all season, also our finishing and decision making in the final third have let us down , had rooney chance been taken the game would ave been much more different than this.

We are not attacking as we should , but its down to lack of speed in transition. Every big away game we had lack of balance in the team due to injuries, suspsnsions or wrong selection vs chelsea.

 

[Chicharo]

We will advance to the EL final, but it is just one game against Ajax, anything can happen and then the whole season might fall through.
So yes, he did risk, but it is stupid not to trust him at this stage. Hopefully he knows what he is doing

 

[prtk0811]

Ferguson's squads had depth. That's the difference.

And high workrate and fitness. Also he had top class wide players and wingers which we dont

 

[Strachans Cigar]

I think its something of a masterstroke. Definitely a slimmer chance of us getting top 4 than winning the EL, given injuries and squad tiredness. We would have been spreading ourselves too thin I think. And obviously winning the EL holds more prestige.

So effectively throw the game v your nearest rivals for 5th place so we finish 6th & don't have to play EL football again next season.

...in that scenario if we don't win the EL we can have a clearer run at the title/top 4 next season in the event of us not having any European football. Chelsea and Liverpool being cases in point.

Good decision IMO

 

[The Purist]

Ferguson's squads had depth. That's the difference.

Mata, Rooney, Rashford, Lingard, Martial and Mkhitaryan featured.. and that's just the attack. Carrick, Herrera, Smalling, Jones, De Gea (rated on here as the best keeper in the world). All capable of beating Arsenal with the right instruction - many having been thorns in our side for years.

 

[Zoo]

Never seen Ferguson making up excuses like these. Fair play to Jose.. managed to take the blame away from himself yet again. The comment reminds me of the time he said you would lose to Boro, only for you to win. For what it's worth, every player United played today has probably beaten us at least once (some of them many times) with the obvious exception of the kid.

Ferguson was going for the league, not the top 4 cup which you lot are used to. Mourinho has rightly made a decision now and prioritised the Europa, we've tried to fight on all fronts throughout the season.

 

[SER19]

What standards?
It is easier to win 2 games straight than win 4 games straight. Right?

Come on, if five years ago anybody at this club would have been thinking of throwing in the towel because we had to play bloody Tottenham and arsenal - to win the europa league - never mid the cl, something would have been seriously wrong,

I totally see the sense in it right now but overall it represents fully how far we've fallen

 

[RRCE]

This.

100%.

 

[Obiorahking_]

Come on, if five years ago anybody at this club would have been thinking of throwing in the towel because we had to play bloody Tottenham and arsenal - to win the europa league - never mid the cl, something would have been seriously wrong,

I totally see the sense in it right now but overall it represents fully how far we've fallen

We don't have the means to do the impossible right now. Do you believe its possible for our injury/fatigue ridden squad to compete on both fronts?

 

[Random Task]

Mata, Rooney, Rashford, Lingard, Martial and Mkhitaryan featured.. and that's just the attack. Carrick, Herrera, Smalling, Jones, De Gea (rated on here as the best keeper in the world). All capable of beating Arsenal with the right instruction - many having been thorns in our side for years.

Rooney has ceased to be Wayne Rooney a long time ago, Mata was returning from injury and it showed in his performance, Miki is wildly out of sorts form-wise, Lingard and Martilal have been sporadic all season long. It really was not a strong team, not in the slightest. We rested 4 of our best players this season in Pogba, Valencia, Bailly and Rashford, had they played today things may have been different, we would definitely have been a more attacking threat at least.

Not to take anything away from your win, I'm hoping your lot can displace City or the dippers for that 4th spot. Either one will do fine

 

[saivet]

I think its something of a masterstroke. Definitely a slimmer chance of us getting top 4 than winning the EL, given injuries and squad tiredness. We would have been spreading ourselves too thin I think. And obviously winning the EL holds more prestige.

So effectively throw the game v your nearest rivals for 5th place so we finish 6th & don't have to play EL football again next season.

...in that scenario if we don't win the EL we can have a clearer run at the title/top 4 next season in the event of us not having any European football. Chelsea and Liverpool being cases in point.

Good decision IMO

Clearly you either don't know or forgot what winning the League Cup means in terms of the EL.

 

[Son Of Sam]

Mata, Rooney, Rashford, Lingard, Martial and Mkhitaryan featured.. and that's just the attack. Carrick, Herrera, Smalling, Jones, De Gea (rated on here as the best keeper in the world). All capable of beating Arsenal with the right instruction - many having been thorns in our side for years.

So this is depth to you?

In 2008, when Fergie played in European Semis, he had fully fit Tevez, Ronaldo, Rooney, Nani, Park, Giggs, in the squad.

2009 was even better, he had Tevez, Rooney, Ronaldo & Berbatov in the attack. An injury to any of that quartet isn't a much of a disaster.

In 2011, Fergie had Owen, Berbatov, Rooney and Chicharito. All fit & firing for the semi final games.

Today....Jose had Rashford(an academy player), a 32 year old Rooney that has lost his bearing and then what? Nothing.

 

[M Bison]

I think its something of a masterstroke. Definitely a slimmer chance of us getting top 4 than winning the EL, given injuries and squad tiredness. We would have been spreading ourselves too thin I think. And obviously winning the EL holds more prestige.

So effectively throw the game v your nearest rivals for 5th place so we finish 6th & don't have to play EL football again next season.

...in that scenario if we don't win the EL we can have a clearer run at the title/top 4 next season in the event of us not having any European football. Chelsea and Liverpool being cases in point.

Good decision IMO

It was a fair decision, but masterstroke is taking it a bit far.

 

[cyberman]

Mata, Rooney, Rashford, Lingard, Martial and Mkhitaryan featured.. and that's just the attack. Carrick, Herrera, Smalling, Jones, De Gea (rated on here as the best keeper in the world). All capable of beating Arsenal with the right instruction - many having been thorns in our side for years.

What good is quoting names? Smalling, Jones and Mata have played 7 mins of football since March, Rooney and Carrick are on the way out in the summer for a reason while two of your names came on when we were already 2-0 down.
Jose couldn't give two fecks about the result today. We made 8 changes to our side, how in Gods name people expect our second 11 to play better than our first 11 who sit in 5th is beyond me.
It's not excuses, we'll do the same v Spurs next week and Southampton a few days later. If we pick up any points then shame on that side.

 

[Son Of Sam]

Ferguson was going for the league, not the top 4 cup which you lot are used to. Mourinho has rightly made a decision now and prioritised the Europa, we've tried to fight on all fronts throughout the season.

Didn't Fergie rest many players too when United's game against Chelsea @Stamford Bridge was sandwiched between a CL semifinal tie against Barcelona in 2008?

We played a goalless draw against Barca on Wednesday, we faced Chelsea on Saturday with Ronaldo on the bench, Tevez, Park, etc were left in Manchester.

We lost 2-1 to Chelsea & it was clear Fergie prioritised the CL over the PL game against Avram Grant's Chelsea. It's so easy to stick a knife into Jose but people forget Fergie did all these things while he was here as well.

 

[The red panther]

His call was completley justified.

EL is right now the easier and safer route into the CL for us and it is a trophy to win (one which we don't have yet). The team has been on its last legs for a very long time now, increasing risks of injurry. If he would have fielded a strong team in the PL given the fact that our chances of finishing top 4 look very grim and than we get injurries because of that and it would harm our chances of winning the EL, that is also a bad idea.

Imo you have 3 choices:

• choice 1: We try and get top 4, ditch EL
• choice 2: We try and get top 4 and win the EL
• choice 3: We ditch top 4 and we try and win EL

choice 1 is a very poor one to make because winning EL is much nicier than finishing top 4 (you are directly qualified for the CL, you have a huge european night and a major trophy).
choice 2 holds a big risk that we would miss out on both because we have alot of injurries and the team has been on its last legs for quite some time
choice 3 makes alot of sense

Choice 2 is actually not a realistic one to make given the situation with our injurries. At some point Jose had to make a decision and that decision was made alot easier because of drawing versus Swansea and City, if we would have the points from those games, I'am pretty sure Mourinho would still have gone for the league but right now we don't really have the best outlook on top 4, so it makes no sense risking injurrying players and tiring them for it when you need them for EL.

 

[youngrell]

I had zero problem with the team we put out today, it was very strong and we also rested some key players for Thursday.

What was a disgrace was the tactics and mentality that team was sent out with.

Given that the manager is clearly putting all our eggs in the EL basket, we had absolutely nothing to lose today, so why set up so negative and defensive?

And all those backing it all to the hilt, with the mindset of we would have to win all 4 of our PL games instead of just a draw and a win in the EL, you are basing that on both City and Liverpool both winning all their remaining games too.

We could possibly have drawn or lost v Spurs next week and still made top 4 if we actually put it on Arsenal today and got the win.

Pathetic.

 

[welshwingwizard]

The bit I don't get is if he was prioritising EL then why not just chuck the kitchen sink at Arsenal and at least end our top four hopes in glorious failure. Why not risk a bit of a thumping by giving them something to think about and at least gave a right go. What's to lose if he had already, by the looks of it, conceded the PL ?

Agree. Would have liked to see that. He could have experimented with getting the best out of the attacking players like martial

 

[Son Of Sam]

I had zero problem with the team we put out today, it was very strong and we also rested some key players for Thursday.

What was a disgrace was the tactics and mentality that team was sent out with.

Given that the manager is clearly putting all our eggs in the EL basket, we had absolutely nothing to lose today, so why set up so negative and defensive?

And all those backing it all to the hilt, with the mindset of we would have to win all 4 of our PL games instead of just a draw and a win in the EL, you are basing that on both City and Liverpool both winning all their remaining games too.

We could possibly have drawn or lost v Spurs next week and still made top 4 if we actually put it on Arsenal today and got the win.

Pathetic.

Setting up negative & defensive is mainly to reduce the possibility of any of the players copping injuries. The less running you have to do, the better.

If we had gone gung ho, we could either win, lose or draw with the frustration of losing key players to injuries before Thursday.

How is this so difficult to grasp?

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

That team could have beaten Arsenal. He didn't take that much of a risk.

I'd say the bigger issue is players having a possible European final in their heads. There were a few cautious performances out there. We'll probably finish 6th.

 

[youngrell]

Setting up negative & defensive is mainly to reduce the possibility of any of the players copping injuries. The less running you have to do, the better.

If we had gone gung ho, we could either win, lose or draw with the frustration of losing key players to injuries before Thursday.

How is this so difficult to grasp?

Because this was supposed to be a team where our key players were rested, so how do they get injured if they are not playing?

Probably only Herrera and Darmian start Thursday, maybe Mkhi.

 

[Chicharo]

He has risked, if we end up winning the EL everyone will praise him, if we don't he'll be crucified. It is simple as that

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Come on, if five years ago anybody at this club would have been thinking of throwing in the towel because we had to play bloody Tottenham and arsenal - to win the europa league - never mid the cl, something would have been seriously wrong,

I totally see the sense in it right now but overall it represents fully how far we've fallen

Comparing this season's Tottenham to any Spurs side we came up against under Fergie is ridiculous tbf.

 

[Moonwalker]

I had zero problem with the team we put out today, it was very strong and we also rested some key players for Thursday.

What was a disgrace was the tactics and mentality that team was sent out with.

Given that the manager is clearly putting all our eggs in the EL basket, we had absolutely nothing to lose today, so why set up so negative and defensive?

And all those backing it all to the hilt, with the mindset of we would have to win all 4 of our PL games instead of just a draw and a win in the EL, you are basing that on both City and Liverpool both winning all their remaining games too.

We could possibly have drawn or lost v Spurs next week and still made top 4 if we actually put it on Arsenal today and got the win.

Pathetic.

Because that's his modus vivendi. Because setting the team up in an attacking way, would not only be against his general approach to games like this, but constitute a big risk of getting trounced, and that's the last thing we need ahead of the Europa game. It's also very informative to Mourinho, because this is the way we will set up in our games against 'big' teams next season too, and today he will have learned - which of these (mostly out of favor) players have what it takes to carry out his will, next season.

What he did was commonsense, and I have no problem with it whatsoever. It's the propensity of a lunatic fringe of posters, to venerate him even when he does the simplest of things, that's incredibly annoying though.

 

[dogwithabone]

Setting up negative & defensive is mainly to reduce the possibility of any of the players copping injuries. The less running you have to do, the better.

If we had gone gung ho, we could either win, lose or draw with the frustration of losing key players to injuries before Thursday.

How is this so difficult to grasp?

Oh come on that's too far fetched for words !

So teams set up defensively to reduce the risk of injuries ? No disrespect meant but I think that's absolute nonsense. We are talking about highly conditioned athletes who are primed to play 180 minutes of highly competitive football a week.

Jose has been pretty defensive and some might say negative all season and I've never known a season of injuries like it. That alone blows your theory right out of the water.

 

[Son Of Sam]

Because this was supposed to be a team where our key players were rested, so how do they get injured if they are not playing?

Probably only Herrera and Darmian start Thursday, maybe Mkhi.

Herrera, Darmian, Mkhi, Mata, Martial are KEY!

 

[Son Of Sam]

Oh come on that's too far fetched for words !

So teams set up defensively to reduce the risk of injuries ? No disrespect meant but I think that's absolute nonsense. We are talking about highly conditioned athletes who are primed to play 180 minutes of highly competitive football a week.

Jose has been pretty defensive and some might say negative all season and I've never known a season of injuries like it. That alone blows your theory right out of the water.

Highly conditioned athletes? Few days ago, we had 7-9 players injured from fatigue. We simply don't have any depth - having to rely on a young academy player like Rashford to lead the attack line says a lot about the depth of the squad.

I cannot remember anytime under Fergie where Welbeck was our saviour to lead our attack line. We always had the Chicharitos, Owens, Berbatovs to alternate. I really don't know what people expect from Jose.

 

[SER19]

Comparing this season's Tottenham to any Spurs side we came up against under Fergie is ridiculous tbf.

Or any equivalent.

 

[frank lee madeer..]

So this is depth to you?

In 2008, when Fergie played in European Semis, he had fully fit Tevez, Ronaldo, Rooney, Nani, Park, Giggs, in the squad.

2009 was even better, he had Tevez, Rooney, Ronaldo & Berbatov in the attack. An injury to any of that quartet isn't a much of a disaster.

In 2011, Fergie had Owen, Berbatov, Rooney and Chicharito. All fit & firing for the semi final games.

Today....Jose had Rashford(an academy player), a 32 year old Rooney that has lost his bearing and then what? Nothing.

That's all relative. Our opponents are no longer Europe's elite, we now face la ligas 11th best team & Arsenal are no great shakes either. Our current squad depth is far superior to either of these teams.

It's our negative style of play that handicapped us today , nothing to do with our squad.

Anyways, catch you later , I'm done for the day.

 

[SER19]

We don't have the means to do the impossible right now. Do you believe its possible for our injury/fatigue ridden squad to compete on both fronts?

I think we absolutely 100% should have had. The squad has been mismanaged, too many players were let go and we shouldn't have been in this position anyway. Our endless run of frankly toothless home draws to rubbish sides left us here, all of this has combined to leave us in a ridiculous position of having to basically pack in the last 4 games of the season, and not only that, have basically all of us on board with it. It's absurd really and a far cry from where we should be.

Hopefully just circumstantial for this season

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Or any equivalent.

Not sure what your point is? White Hart Lane is arguably the toughest ground in the league to visit this season. So that will have been taken into account in our approach today.

A few weeks back I would have been against putting all our eggs in the Europa basket but we fecked ourselves by failing to beat Swansea. And all the other home draws against poor teams. C'est la vie. We know what we need to do in the summer but I've no problem with conceding top four. We've left ourselves too much to do. Before a ball was kicked today.

 

[Son Of Sam]

That's all relative. Our opponents are no longer Europe's elite, we now face la ligas 11th best team & Arsenal are no great shakes either. Our current squad depth is far superior to either of these teams.

It's our negative style of play that handicapped us today , nothing to do with our squad.

Anyways, catch you later , I'm done for the day.

You are having a laugh.
Our current squad depth is not superior to any of the squads I listed.

We lost Zlatan and we are relying on an academy graduate to lead the line. If we had lost Rooney in 08 & 09, Tevez, Berba, Saha, etc could have filled in without any hassles.

 

[dogwithabone]

Highly conditioned athletes? Few days ago, we had 7-9 players injured from fatigue. We simply don't have any depth - having to rely on a young academy player like Rashford to lead the attack line says a lot about the depth of the squad.

I cannot remember anytime under Fergie where Welbeck was our saviour to lead our attack line. We always had the Chicharitos, Owens, Berbatovs to alternate. I really don't know what people expect from Jose.

No depth ? We've got the deepest squad in the PL in terms of experience.

The current level of quality might be questionable, balance too perhaps, but if you're going on reputation then no team in the PL can touch us for numbers and squad depth.

By the way I'm not criticising Jose, I think he's doing a fabulous job but he's not exempt from a bit of questioning on certain issues.

 

[The red panther]

So this is depth to you?

In 2008, when Fergie played in European Semis, he had fully fit Tevez, Ronaldo, Rooney, Nani, Park, Giggs, in the squad.

2009 was even better, he had Tevez, Rooney, Ronaldo & Berbatov in the attack. An injury to any of that quartet isn't a much of a disaster.

In 2011, Fergie had Owen, Berbatov, Rooney and Chicharito. All fit & firing for the semi final games.

Today....Jose had Rashford(an academy player), a 32 year old Rooney that has lost his bearing and then what? Nothing.

Martial, Lingard, Mkhitaryan, Mata ?

Our only injurred offesnive player is Ibra

I get what you are trying to say but your example doesn't make any sense.

Our most important players we missed today were Pogba, Fellaini, Bailly, Blind and Valencia which had us reallying on Rooney, Carrick, Jones, Smalling and Tuanzebe. Tuanzebe is the only one who had a good game, whilst Carrick and Rooney are examples of players who are completley passed it and when they need to create things from midfield, it goes slow and it is not enough to trouble Arsenal. Jones and Smalling just aren't very good, together with Darmian who also isn't very good, it resulted in Arsenal having an easy 2nd goal which came minutes after them having a complete luck goal and it essentially killed the game for us as the team didn't have the energy left nor the desire to fight for it as we needed to win for this game to matter, and us scoring 3 goals is very unlikely at this moment not mention everybody is clearly tired and focussed more on the EL anyway.

 

[SER19]

Not sure what your point is? White Hart Lane is arguably the toughest ground in the league to visit this season. So that will have been taken into account in our approach today.

A few weeks back I would have been against putting all our eggs in the Europa basket but we fecked ourselves by failing to beat Swansea. And all the other home draws against poor teams. C'est la vie. We know what we need to do in the summer but I've no problem with conceding top four. We've left ourselves too much to do. Before a ball was kicked today.

I've already said that right now at this minute I see the sense in it. The fact in the bigger picture that we're in this position is woeful. Trading off league points to try win the europa league which we've bundled through against poor teams as it is. And this isn't exactly with power house teams ahead of us in the league. My point is that while yes we were spoiled with success, should we finish 6th which looks likely, regardless of winning europa league, it's an incredibly poor position to be in considering where we were less than 5 years ago.

 

[montpelier]

I think Jose is using a narrative that it suits Jose to use. And he's trying to get the best end result - which is qualifying for the CL by winning a trophy.

Don't think he's getting sacked, but going out to CV on Thursday would be catastrophic I think - we could have lost today anyway, Arsenal are not complete mugs however much we might like to think that.

 

[frank lee madeer..]

You are having a laugh.
Our current squad depth is not superior to any of the squads I listed.

We lost Zlatan and we are relying on an academy graduate to lead the line. If we had lost Rooney in 08 & 09, Tevez, Berba, Saha, etc could have filled in without any hassles.

Put your glasses on & read my post again. I clearly said ' either' of the 2 teams I mentioned. Arsenal & celta. We don't need squad depth to compete with barca....we ain't playing them, & arsenal are the worst they've been since Wenger arrived.

 

[dogwithabone]

You are having a laugh.
Our current squad depth is not superior to any of the squads I listed.

We lost Zlatan and we are relying on an academy graduate to lead the line. If we had lost Rooney in 08 & 09, Tevez, Berba, Saha, etc could have filled in without any hassles.

You keep saying Rashford is a 19 year old academy graduate but if we signed 18 year old Mbappe, a Monaco academy graduate, would he count ?

Rooney is 32, ibrahamovic is 36.

Why are Rashford and Rooney seemingly not counting on your squad depth arguement ?

 

[LuisNaniencia]

What good is quoting names? Smalling, Jones and Mata have played 7 mins of football since March, Rooney and Carrick are on the way out in the summer for a reason while two of your names came on when we were already 2-0 down.
Jose couldn't give two fecks about the result today. We made 8 changes to our side, how in Gods name people expect our second 11 to play better than our first 11 who sit in 5th is beyond me.
It's not excuses, we'll do the same v Spurs next week and Southampton a few days later. If we pick up any points then shame on that side.

My Arsenal supporting friend text me something similar, "you had 8 internationals out" as if to say we were playing our strongest team. Can't even be bothered to reply.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I've already said that right now at this minute I see the sense in it. The fact in the bigger picture that we're in this position is woeful. Trading off league points to try win the europa league which we've bundled through against poor teams as it is. And this isn't exactly with power house teams ahead of us in the league. My point is that while yes we were spoiled with success, should we finish 6th which looks likely, regardless of winning europa league, it's an incredibly poor position to be in considering where we were less than 5 years ago.

Well now you're stating the bleeding obvious. Fergie's retirement left us in a tail-spin and we've been floundering ever since. Clear signs this season (IMHO) that we're making baby steps towards being a force again but we've fallen a long way so it will take a while to turn us roun. Mourinho's taken longer than we'd all hoped to steady the ship but steady the ship he has. But missed chances in games we dominated ended up costing us dear. This has been obvious for a while now. I'm genuinely bemused that anyone might think today's game told us anything we didn't know already or is an accurate marker for what this manager/team is capable of. That much was blindingly obvious from the moment the line-ups were posted.