[PepsiCola]

This @Zii fellow has put hyperbolic strawman comments in the mouths of posters whilst making hyperbolic statements himself. Ironic.

Was poor yesterday, though it was a nice pass in the build up of the goal. Though harsh to give him stick considering he's come back early from an operation and he was playing infront of a dire midfield.

 

[izec]

He is heavily reliant on the team and us being on the front foot. If we defend and play passively and we dont have possession, Mata will disappear and do nothing most of the time. He is not someone that can do something on his own or score a screamer from nowhere.

 

[shield]

He looked good yesterday. Good movement (not the Lingard type of aimless movement), good ball control , nice awarness and I believe he would have even scored had he been presented with a single opportunity.

His movement in attack is so great to watch. Does exactly what is needed to set up a quick counter. Like, Martial( even Rashford) has this problem of hanging on to ball for too long or trying to go through a wall, but Mata just picks it up, releases it accurately to a forward and moves to a position to receive the ball back. He keeps all the players position in memory and can carry out a variety of passes.

Think Mourinho is trying to get him fit for the EL final.

 

[manunited1919]

He looked good yesterday. Good movement (not the Lingard type of aimless movement), good ball control , nice awarness and I believe he would have even scored had he been presented with a single opportunity.

His movement in attack is so great to watch. Does exactly what is needed to set up a quick counter. Like, Martial( even Rashford) has this problem of hanging on to ball for too long or trying to go through a wall, but Mata just picks it up, releases it accurately to a forward and moves to a position to receive the ball back. He keeps all the players position in memory and can carry out a variety of passes.

Think Mourinho is trying to get him fit for the EL final.

I hope so. We should be starting Martial/Rashford/Mata/Mhikytarian for the final. But unfortunately, I can see Jose opting for more 'control' and playing a midfield 3 of Fellaini, Herrera and Pogba, and then Mata or Micky get dropped from the team. Possibly Martial too, to make room for Lingard.

 

[shield]

I hope so. We should be starting Martial/Rashford/Mata/Mhikytarian for the final. But unfortunately, I can see Jose opting for more 'control' and playing a midfield 3 of Fellaini, Herrera and Pogba, and then Mata or Micky get dropped from the team. Possibly Martial too, to make room for Lingard.

Good question. Can see that you have created a new thread regarding this.

I would like us to go with a midfield two with 'Pogba - Herrera' and have then have "Martial-Mkhi-Mata" and then Rashford ahead. I don't think we need to be so defensive with Ajax.

But you are right, it will definitely be a midfield three with 'Pogba - Herrera - Fellaini' and I think Lingard will start too. So, we may not get to see Martial and Mata in the final unless we are down by a goal

 

[manunited1919]

Good question. Can see that you have created a new thread regarding this.

I would like us to go with a midfield two with 'Pogba - Herrera' and have then have "Martial-Mkhi-Mata" and then Rashford ahead. I don't think we need to be so defensive with Ajax.

But you are right, it will definitely be a midfield three with 'Pogba - Herrera - Fellaini' and I think Lingard will start too. So, we may not get to see Martial and Mata in the final unless we are down by a goal

Indeed, it would be a big surprise if Jose dropped Fellaini and opted for Mata or Mhiky as No10 in this game.

 

[TheReligion]

He looked good yesterday. Good movement (not the Lingard type of aimless movement), good ball control , nice awarness and I believe he would have even scored had he been presented with a single opportunity.

His movement in attack is so great to watch. Does exactly what is needed to set up a quick counter. Like, Martial( even Rashford) has this problem of hanging on to ball for too long or trying to go through a wall, but Mata just picks it up, releases it accurately to a forward and moves to a position to receive the ball back. He keeps all the players position in memory and can carry out a variety of passes.

Think Mourinho is trying to get him fit for the EL final.

I agree we are trying to get him fit.

JM had a little word with him when he came off and gave him a hug. I think he was giving him the nod for Stockholm.

 

[AdNani]

We are a much better side when he and Mkhitaryan both play, think he's a certainty to start,

 

[Inter Yer Nan]

Hope he gets the nod in the final as he's one of the few players who loses his shit when presented with a decent chance. We are just a much better side with him in the team. Probably needs about 90 mins over the next two games and he'll be be up to full match fitness.

 

[Inter Yer Nan]

We are a much better side when he and Mkhitaryan both play, think he's a certainty to start,

Yeah, so much intelligence and slick play between them.

 

[Janson]

This is not about bashing Mata. I'm only gonna talk about how I've seen the player since he joined Chelsea and how I see him now(the positivity comes at the end so bare with me. And sorry for the long post.

I have never been a fan and haven't had much positive about him to say. I could see why Mourinho didn't want him back then. I believe he's too weak, easilly dissposessed, too slow, he just gets run over by attackers when attempting to track back and defend. It was Villas Boas who bought him in his first and only season at Chelsea. I think he only had one good season when he was basically their best player in 2013 I think. Obviously I wasn't watching every match so I can't say exactly how good he was, but I've seen enough to form an opinion. It's fair to say he wasn't my type of player. I clearly remember the match we played against Avb's Chelsea at the start of the season when we completely outplayed them. Avb's high line coupled with his new signing Mata and Sturridge on the wings who couldn't defend meant Nani(and others) had a field day. I remember when Mata tried stopping Nani but Nani just ran through him like he wasn't even there and went on to score a beauty.

After this game I thought to myself, the solid unpenetrable Chelsea is gone and I wasn't too happy about it, since it was always more interesting having someone put up a fight against us competing for the league. The reason I'm bringing this up is because Mata was part of that downfall for Chelsea(not a big part) but still replacing Malouda and Anelka who were strong experienced players for Mata and Sturridge was Avb setting his mark on how he wanted to play, which didn't really work out for him. Chelsea became soft and easy to score against. These were my first impressions of Mata, which I wanted to share. Although I had seen him for Valencia at times.

Having said all of this, lately I have started to appreciate him more, just like Mourinho has, I believe. He is an experienced player now and that is very valuable when most of our attackers are young, especially considering Zlatans absence. I think if surrounded by the right players and playing in the right system, he could be invaluable to the team. He rarely looses the ball(not because he's strong but he always realeses it at the right time, linking very well with others upfront, he can score, he can assist, he's creative and intelligent. He has also displayed more tenacity under Mourinho, you can see he works harder at chasing down more then I've ever seen before. I have actually seen him take the ball of players several times. He's also good at making runs in behind despite being slow, similar to Ibra and he knows exactly when to make these runs. He can't protect the FB though because of his physique which is a problem on the wing. If only he had some more strength and pace, he would be world class.

I still am not sure though if he's completely safe to stay here/play that much next season. He has been the best of a bad bunch and it could be that Mourinho only had to use him because of the lack of better options. When we get better players for those attacking positions, players of the Mourinho type, he could become dispensable. Especially if Rashford develops quickly and Miki starts producing, it will be even tougher for him. But we do have a lot of games in a season so I think he will still be useful to have.

 

[Rajeev]

Love him and he's consistent for us, but the drawback is he doesn't like to take responsibility with the ball and looks for the easy pass a lot of times.

 

[DanClancy]

Haven't heard much on his contract, it was reported when he signed his contract was until 2018 but its been very quiet on that front if thats true.

 

[MadMike]

Haven't heard much on his contract, it was reported when he signed his contract was until 2018 but its been very quiet on that front if thats true.

I personally hope he renews this summer. But I do worry that we might offload him and look for a player like Willian who matches Mou's expectations from wingers better.

 

[Raees]

I personally hope he renews this summer. But I do worry that we might offload him and look for a player like Willian who matches Mou's expectations from wingers better.

That wouldn't worry me. I'd prefer that.

 

[MadMike]

That wouldn't worry me. I'd prefer that.

Well I personally value his contribution a lot. But if we get a new guy and he does better, then no complains. There no such guarantee of course, that a new arrival will outperform Mata. Mkhi hasn't for example.

 

[Raees]

Well I personally value his contribution a lot. But if we get a new guy and he does better, then no complains. There no such guarantee of course, that a new arrival will outperform Mata. Mkhi hasn't for example.

Shouldn't be too easy to out perform him if you're a half decent winger or a genuine world class 10 .

Mata has been a very underwhelming signing and marked the beginning of the decline for this club .. signing bad fits for United at huge prices and persisting with them when they're clearly not right for club.

Lovely guy, who has a good footballing brain and shown flashes of decent stuff with a world class blog but doesn't and has never cut it for me I'm afraid.

In this current squad he's a key player and we need him to perform for the EL final but would he get into any of the top United sides of the past? No chance and therefore if we want to challenge for titles either try and recoup a decent fee for him and reinvest into some proper widemen or relegate him to the bench. I can see him being a good squad player in next few years but he's worth a lot of money.

Fans standards have dropped massively when being a nice guy means that's is enough to earn you a starting spot at Manchester United.

 

[Devil77]

I can't believe people are blaming our forward players in the last few league games when Mourinho has put up ridiculously under-powered teams against top opposition away from home.

What do you expect Mata to do when the midfield is Carrick, Tuanzebe, Rooney? Against Spurs away. Same with Martial. They get the ball and we expect them to beat players on their own and make something out of nothing, while the rest of the team never breaks out of a defensive formation. Fullbacks not attacking, CMs sitting deep, defenders just hoofing it...

Just what the feck is your realistic expectation of them? Mata has shown again and again that he's got great movement, a good eye for a pass, is very tidy in possession and a lethal finisher in the box. He's been showing that for years at United, Chelsea and Valencia. People have fecking lost their heads in this forum.

Excellent post and very true.

 

[AdNani]

Love him and he's consistent for us, but the drawback is he doesn't like to take responsibility with the ball and looks for the easy pass a lot of times.

I used to think he sji

Shouldn't be too easy to out perform him if you're a half decent winger or a genuine world class 10 .

Mata has been a very underwhelming signing and marked the beginning of the decline for this club .. signing bad fits for United at huge prices and persisting with them when they're clearly not right for club.

Lovely guy, who has a good footballing brain and shown flashes of decent stuff with a world class blog but doesn't and has never cut it for me I'm afraid.

In this current squad he's a key player and we need him to perform for the EL final but would he get into any of the top United sides of the past? No chance and therefore if we want to challenge for titles either try and recoup a decent fee for him and reinvest into some proper widemen or relegate him to the bench. I can see him being a good squad player in next few years but he's worth a lot of money.

Fans standards have dropped massively when being a nice guy means that's is enough to earn you a starting spot at Manchester United.

Completely disagree with almost everything you said.

the decline did start when we started signing sub standard players, but that can go as far back as Michael Owen and Ashley young - more recently Darmian, Memphis and Scheiderlin.

Mata has had a very good output of goals and assists since arriving and more often than not has produced in the biggest games. Might not be the best in the world but hes easily the best technically we have in the squad and a very useful person to have.

To say that people want him here starting purely because he is a nice guy is beyond ridiculous
.

 

[Raees]

I used to think he sji


Completely disagree with almost everything you said.

the decline did start when we started signing sub standard players, but that can go as far back as Michael Owen and Ashley young - more recently Darmian, Memphis and Scheiderlin.

Mata has had a very good output of goals and assists since arriving and more often than not has produced in the biggest games. Might not be the best in the world but hes easily the best technically we have in the squad and a very useful person to have.

To say that people want him here starting purely because he is a nice guy is beyond ridiculous
.

The best technically in this squad means diddly squat.

Useful player to have yes, but his transfer value and what we could get instead means he's probably worth more to us on the market than as a squad member. One thing for sure is he shouldn't be starting next season if we want to be successful and that is a damning indictment of a player who cost as much as Sanchez/Aguero did.

 

[Kostur]

The best technically in this squad means diddly squat.

Useful player to have yes, but his transfer value and what we could get instead means he's probably worth more to us on the market than as a squad member. One thing for sure is he shouldn't be starting next season if we want to be successful and that is a damning indictment of a player who cost as much as Sanchez/Aguero did.

It's about as damning as false.

 

[Raees]

It's about as damning as false.

How much did they all cost then...

Sanchez £35m
Aguero £31.5m (some report £38m)
Mata £37.1m

Now if anyone thinks Mata is anywhere near that money in terms of performances he's given us in relation to those guys they're an idiot or incredibly biased.

Those guys are icons for their clubs whilst we brought a nice little mouse who can't lift the club when it is struggling.

 

[Akshay]

How much did they all cost then...

Sanchez £35m
Aguero £31.5m (some report £38m)
Mata £37.1m

Now if anyone thinks Mata is anywhere near that money in terms of performances he's given us in relation to those guys they're an idiot or incredibly biased.

Those guys are icons for their clubs whilst we brought a nice little mouse who can't lift the club when it is struggling.

Yeah he's not been as good for us as Sanchez and Aguero have been for their clubs, but no shame in that considering they've been among the league's best players. He's been better than most, if not all, our other wingers this season though. If not being at Sanchez/Aguero level is a damning indictment for a £30m+ transfer then most transfers of that value are failures.

 

[MoskvaRed]

Shouldn't be too easy to out perform him if you're a half decent winger or a genuine world class 10 .

Mata has been a very underwhelming signing and marked the beginning of the decline for this club .. signing bad fits for United at huge prices and persisting with them when they're clearly not right for club.

Lovely guy, who has a good footballing brain and shown flashes of decent stuff with a world class blog but doesn't and has never cut it for me I'm afraid.

In this current squad he's a key player and we need him to perform for the EL final but would he get into any of the top United sides of the past? No chance and therefore if we want to challenge for titles either try and recoup a decent fee for him and reinvest into some proper widemen or relegate him to the bench. I can see him being a good squad player in next few years but he's worth a lot of money.

Fans standards have dropped massively when being a nice guy means that's is enough to earn you a starting spot at Manchester United.

That largely echoes my thoughts (although the poor recruitment predates Mata's arrival). After 3.5 seasons here, I don't see him as good enough to be a regular starter if we want to mount a genuine title challenge and we might as well recoup some money for investing in players with a higher ceiling rather than keep him as a squad player. That's not to say he is our biggest problem of course before his fans on here start comparing him to more obviously substandard members of the squad.

 

[Kostur]

How much did they all cost then...

Sanchez £35m
Aguero £31.5m (some report £38m)
Mata £37.1m

Now if anyone thinks Mata is anywhere near that money in terms of performances he's given us in relation to those guys they're an idiot or incredibly biased.

Those guys are icons for their clubs whilst we brought a nice little mouse who can't lift the club when it is struggling.

No, l focused more on the first part actually that cannot be a starter for us if we want to win something. It's an argument pulled out of ass to be fair.

 

[MoskvaRed]

No, l focused more on the first part actually that cannot be a starter for us if we want to win something. It's an argument pulled out of ass to be fair.

Well we have had a front seat watching title winning teams for 20 years so you do form an idea of who is made of the right stuff. Mata, who has spent his entire career with non-elite sides (Valencia, Chelsea during their rough patch following Ancelotti and, sadly, United over the past few years) does not have that one outstanding attribute that you can latch on to and think "here's a player that can really make a difference". When he leaves, he'll be remembered for the occasional bit of skill or scoring against Liverpool but, ultimately he will be judged a disappointment.

 

[Kostur]

Well we have had a front seat watching title winning teams for 20 years so you do form an idea of who is made of the right stuff. Mata, who has spent his entire career with non-elite sides (Valencia, Chelsea during their rough patch following Ancelotti and, sadly, United over the past few years) does not have that one outstanding attribute that you can latch on to and think "here's a player that can really make a difference". When he leaves, he'll be remembered for the occasional bit of skill or scoring against Liverpool but, ultimately he will be judged a disappointment.

You do know that Mata won both CL and EL with Chelsea and been nominated their player of the year both times for them, right? Hardly an average side. Plus no, we haven't always had players who distinguished themselves with a certain attribute, we've had plenty of average players (Mata is not one) who helped us tenfolds in winning trophies, but most importantly we've had SAF to win it all for us.

No idea how you can arrive at a conclusion that Mata will be remembered as a disappointment either. Is it because we've not won the league/CL in that time? Will all players post SAF till now be remembered as disappointments then?

 

[MoskvaRed]

You do know that Mata won both CL and EL with Chelsea and been nominated their player of the year both times for them, right? Hardly an average side. Plus no, we haven't always had players who distinguished themselves with a certain attribute, we've had plenty of average players (Mata is not one) who helped us tenfolds in winning trophies, but most imprlortantly we've had SAF to win it all for us.

No idea how you can arrive at a conclusion that Mata will be remembered as a disappointment either. Is it because we've not won the league/CL in that time? Will all players post SAF till now be remembered as disappointments then?

Average teams sometimes win the CL (2005?) if they can defend competently. That Chelsea side never came close to competing for the league. As for the EL, I know we are in the final next week but it is strictly B list.

Mata was the club's record signing, he's not John O'Shea. He was also in his peak years. Based on the last 3.5 years, I can't say it is money well spent. When has he really stepped up and made you think that United have someone special here, a gamechanger? A game against a crap Liverpool side?

I admire the fact that, as a Spaniard, he has embraced life in Manchester and he is definitely one of the more likeable members of the squad but, on the field, I will not remember much from his time here.

 

[Kostur]

Average teams sometimes win the CL (2005?) if they can defend competently. That Chelsea side never came close to competing for the league. As for the EL, I know we are in the final next week but it is strictly B list.

Mata was the club's record signing, he's not John O'Shea. He was also in his peak years. Based on the last 3.5 years, I can't say it is money well spent. When has he really stepped up and made you think that United have someone special here, a gamechanger? A game against a crap Liverpool side?

I admire the fact that, as a Spaniard, he has embraced life in Manchester and he is definitely one of the more likeable members of the squad but, on the field, I will not remember much from his time here.

So players can only be defined by particular matches that they win on their own?

He's been rather consistent player for us in terms of numbers, throughout the seasons playing for three different managers, first two of whom have been sacked on the basis on being not good enough. There have been matches in this time when Mata was the only player to score a goal and simply win us a match, it didn't need a brace like against Liverpool. Iirc in terms of goals he's even surpassed his Chelsea time with us.

Coming back to the 12/13 season I think he's had numbers that not many players could pride themselves with in the league. Think it was over 30 assists and about 20 goals that season, which is an amazing output for a #10.

 

[MoskvaRed]

So players can only be defined by particular matches that they win on their own?

He's been rather consistent player for us in terms of numbers, throughout the seasons playing for three different managers, first two of whom have been sacked on the basis on being not good enough. There have been matches in this time when Mata was the only player to score a goal and simply win us a match, it didn't need a brace like against Liverpool. Iirc in terms of goals he's even surpassed his Chelsea time with us.

Coming back to the 12/13 season I think he's had numbers that not many players could pride themselves with in the league. Think it was over 30 assists and about 20 goals that season, which is an amazing output for a #10.

Final comment - I agree he looked good at Chelsea and I am not claiming he has been a disaster at United. It's just for that money, I'd look for a bigger impact. Ultimately, he's not my type of player, he reminds me of the technically gifted but weak type of players Big Ron used to sign (Jesper Olsen).

 

[VP89]

Final comment - I agree he looked good at Chelsea and I am not claiming he has been a disaster at United. It's just for that money, I'd look for a bigger impact. Ultimately, he's not my type of player, he reminds me of the technically gifted but weak type of players Big Ron used to sign (Jesper Olsen).

There will always be premiums associated with buying influential players from the same leagues in the January transfer window. It's extremely harsh to criticise Mata's impact when he's played under Moyes and LVG in all seasons bar this one. When he's under a manager who gives him more creative freedom going forward and well, isn't David fecking Moyes, you arrive at a good season when looking at his performances.

 

[Raees]

No, l focused more on the first part actually that cannot be a starter for us if we want to win something. It's an argument pulled out of ass to be fair.

How is it when even under Jose you can't really say he's a proper starter and even Lingard sometimes gets preferred to him and this is for a side which is 6th in the table.

No chance he is still a starter past this year.

 

[Kostur]

How is it when even under Jose you can't really say he's a proper starter and even Lingard sometimes gets preferred to him and this is for a side which is 6th in the table.

No chance he is still a starter past this year.

That still doesn't imply that he cannot be a starter for us if we want to win things. Such argument implies lack of quality/ability. He's also played over 500 minutes more than Lingard this season.

 

[Sandikan]

How is it when even under Jose you can't really say he's a proper starter and even Lingard sometimes gets preferred to him and this is for a side which is 6th in the table.

No chance he is still a starter past this year.

Agree completely. Nice guy, nice skills etc, but we've barely been a cohesive attacking force with him this year. So it's unthinkable he can be a regular starter after another recruitment drive.

 

[MoskvaRed]

He wasn't exactly "influential" at the time - Mourinho had frozen him out. I'll concede that it has not been easy at United (Moyes was a joke and I have no idea what Van Gaal was trying to do) . But let's put it another way - if he leaves United, do you think a club with genuine ambitions to win the Champions League would buy him? Do you think any of the other 5 clubs in the top 6 of the PL would buy him? In my opinion, the answer is no because he isn't quite top drawer.

 

[sullydnl]

Shouldn't be too easy to out perform him if you're a half decent winger or a genuine world class 10 .

Mata has been a very underwhelming signing and marked the beginning of the decline for this club .. signing bad fits for United at huge prices and persisting with them when they're clearly not right for club.

Lovely guy, who has a good footballing brain and shown flashes of decent stuff with a world class blog but doesn't and has never cut it for me I'm afraid.

In this current squad he's a key player and we need him to perform for the EL final but would he get into any of the top United sides of the past? No chance and therefore if we want to challenge for titles either try and recoup a decent fee for him and reinvest into some proper widemen or relegate him to the bench. I can see him being a good squad player in next few years but he's worth a lot of money.

Fans standards have dropped massively when being a nice guy means that's is enough to earn you a starting spot at Manchester United.

You think Mata marked the beginning of the decline of this club? As opposed to, say, the Moyes + Fellaini combo the summer prior to that?

 

[We need an rvn]

what the heck has happened over the last few days for things to kick of about Mata???

 

[sullydnl]

what the heck has happened over the last few days for things to kick of about Mata???

He didn't have a good game. Even when he's coming back from injury and playing in a side so defensive that he appears to be an auxilliary wingback at times, that's still enough to get people moaning about him being a "luxury" player.

 

[Raees]

That still doesn't imply that he cannot be a starter for us if we want to win things. Such argument implies lack of quality/ability. He's also played over 500 minutes more than Lingard this season.

I'm not implying. I'm categorically stating I think he lacks the requisite quality to be a starter in a title challenging or CL winning side.

You can claim he was starter material for Chelseas CL run but that was then and I have seen him as you lot have close hand for 3 years and I don't think he's all that put simply and not of the right material we need in our starting XI for the years ahead.

 

[Kostur]

I'm not implying. I'm categorically stating I think he lacks the requisite quality to be a starter in a title challenging or CL winning side.

You can claim he was starter material for Chelseas CL run but that was then and I have seen him as you lot have close hand for 3 years and I don't think he's all that put simply and not of the right material we need in our starting XI for the years ahead.

Well we'll have to agree to disagree then because I think he indeed is all that and the required quality.