He may get it if England won Euro next summer, which is possible. England is definitely the top 2 team in Europe at the moment.
Jude Bellingham | Real Madrid player
- Thread starter Samid
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Anywhere eh? 3/4 one club man who didn't step up to the occasion for their country
Bellingham's technique is top notch really gifted but he is less flashy now after his summer move compared to his Dortmund days when the Zizou comparisons made more sense
Yeah stop comparing him with people. He’s an alien and football has never seen his kind before
Pretty much the discussion being had in here, but we had it first.
Even down to him only being compared to all-timers at the minute with Le Bouef likening him to Rijkaard and Gullit.
That's his current trajectory; people aren't talking about him as simply world class at the moment.
Never watch Di Stefano played, but I reckon Bellingham could potentially reach Di Stefano level of genius - all rounded midfielder/forward hybrid with no weakness, who is central figure leading his team attack play, and also score lots of goals.
They do owe us for the prime Ronaldo we sold them. Hopefully we turn things around and enjoy prime Jude taking us back to the summit in about 5 years time.
This boy will never be close to Di Stéfano ffs; the Argentinean was a 9,5 at every technical skill, while a tactical genius.
He can be great on his own terms though.
He can be great on his own terms though.
I think he can still be that prototype of player, even if he doesn't reach the heights of a Di Stéfano. He's a very hard player to find points of reference for and you end up having to amalgamate the traits and qualities of like 5 different players to try to describe what type of player he is.
I think Gullit is a good comparison; other all-rounder with great technique, physical power and aggressive mentality(in a good way, although Dutch could be that in other ways), but not a genius or a magician on the ball.
I think he is at the right trajectory to possibly reach that level in future. We will have to see, of course. But I have never seen a 20 year old midfielder who is as dominate as he is at the moment.
Yep, and in that instance, they sound like comic book characters because the drift is so vast and so seamless, which is why people have a tendency to attenuate in a bit to not sound fanciful, but then failing to acknowledge all that's going on with this one player.
I wouldn't have gone the Di Stefano route myself, personally. I mean, that's the absolute pinnacle the game has seen for all-in-one, but if Madridista's themselves are doing so they must be seeing something out of this world freakish with what Bellingham is currently doing.
I love it when players come along and break the game and give cause and energy to wonder. Don't know if he can keep this up, but if he can, it helps people to understand these kind of anomalies have existed before and played the game in ways that are quite mindboggling.
What's particularly interesting with Bellingham, for me, is that his hype and reputation has preceded him for a long, long time, but I think I'm in a camp with others who weren't particularly interested or sure about him, even up to Dortmund - like, he wasn't fall over yourself to get great, but he's suddenly entered the world consciousness as almost a wholly different player because of Ancelotti and it's unbelievable, which makes for an intrigue that is going to continue to grow as the season unfolds.
he certainly has the potential to be.
He will follow the trend and join Untied when he is 34.
He's never seen him play, but he knows.
When’s the last time a young midfielder took the football world by storm like Bellingham so far? Was it Beckenbauer in the 60’s?
Fabregas was (arguably) better. Differences admittedly. But comparable. Depends what he evolves into.
Musiala?
United become Untied when you've had a few drinks? Anyway, there were rumours of Ratcliffe being enamored with British talent this week, I hope it's true in this scenario.
Musiala is far behind Bellingham in regard to productivity and leadership. He's got the talent, but he is not yet showing it on a similar level to Bellingham, so no.
Musiala is good but his impact is not anything like Bellingham at Real so far.
He's a different level, eclipses any midfielder around his age including Wirtz / Musiala by a considerable distance due to his elite mentality. He's got to be the best attacking midfielder in the world current form. Only player who gets close to him by assessing impact is De Bryune.
Almost feels like Madrid being the pinnacle of club football is the only move that would have been suitable for him. I watched parts of that game against Napoli after 60 mins and he was the only one offering any threat and creating chances.
Almost feels like Madrid being the pinnacle of club football is the only move that would have been suitable for him. I watched parts of that game against Napoli after 60 mins and he was the only one offering any threat and creating chances.
Gotze was fantastic already at 18/19 years old.
Bellingham currently stands in the limelight more, but is he really?
He's certainly stronger in the scoring department and weaker in assisting but both things considered still a bit better:
| Per 90m | Bellingham | Wirtz | Musiala |
| Goals | 0.89 | 0.3 | 0.39 |
| Assists | 0.16 | 0.49 | 0.39 |
| Goals + assists | 1.05 | 0.79 | 0.78 |
Anyway, as midfielders, their playmaking is just as important and here Musiala and especially Wirtz tend to outperform Bellingham:
| Per 90m | Bellingham | Wirtz | Musiala |
| Touches | 69.3 | 76.4 | 49 |
| Shot creating actions | 3.97 | 5.64 | 5.7 |
| Key passes | 1.87 | 2.87 | 1.96 |
| Progressive passes | 7.72 | 7.82 | 5.52 |
| Progressive passing distance | 154 | 210 | 117 |
| Passes into penalty area | 2.11 | 3.56 | 1.96 |
| Passes into final third | 5.2 | 3.47 | 2.94 |
| Progressive passes received | 6.34 | 10.4 | 6.27 |
In regards to dribbling, it is a bit closer but overall a similar picture:
| Per 90m | Bellingham | Wirtz | Musiala |
| Successful dribblings | 1.95 | 3.37 | 3.92 |
| Dribbling success rate | 48% | 53.1% | 52.6% |
| Progressive carrying distance | 127 | 145 | 129 |
| Carries into final third | 2.85 | 4.26 | 3.53 |
| Carries into penalty area | 1.06 | 0.89 | 0.98 |
And finally defensive actions tends towards Bellingham before Musiala with Wirtz a distant third:
| Per 90m | Bellingham | Wirtz | Musiala |
| Tacklings | 1.63 | 0.59 | 1.76 |
| Possession wins through tacklings | 1.38 | 0.3 | 1.37 |
| Passes intercepted | 2.11 | 0.69 | 1.18 |
How can he assist himself? He’s the one setting off after a combination play and finishing the sequence, so the numbers will look different for him with the other two having strikers ahead of them.
bellinghams numbers set him quite far apart, surely? Yes the spain midfield was stacked, but fabregas wasn’t an integral part of the national set up, Bellingham is Englands best all round player.
Yes, yes he is.
This has been an issue with me for thinking about Bellingham. Even when he was playing in a less advanced role at Dortmund his assist and playmaking numbers were decent, but not particularly ahead of the pack of his peers. He has demonstrated that he is capable of doing many different things at a very high level, but no player, except an alien, can possibly do all of those things to the highest level all at once. He is certainly giving it a go.
Not sure if this makes sense, but I have to check myself and ask whether I am basing his assessment on what is actually happening, or on the composite in my mind of what he he is capable of. A crude example would be thinking of a composite of 06/07 Ronaldo and 16/17 Ronaldo as the assessment of "Ronaldo the player", rather than the reality of distinct exceptional iterations of the player but with different points of emphasis of his playing style optimized at different times. With Ronaldo, it happened in distinct phases of his career whereas with Jude, it can seemingly happen from season to season. Theoretically, he could have a large drop off in goal scoring form and still be an exceptional player by focusing and expending energies on other facets of the game, even if people might not generally perceive him as the same caliber of player because goals trump everything.
He is still incredibly young and his style is still developing and may change yet again if Real Madrid brings in a proper striker for him to play off of. What's been interesting about him is the boundary pushing regarding the template for greatness. The most common template has simply been best-in-class exceptionalism in a few traits. Depending on how he develops, Jude can go: (a.) the common route with best-in-class in a few traits (Xavi, Haaland) (b.) the less common route with very good in many traits, but not best-in-class in any (Gerrard) or (c.) the freak/genius route with best-in-class in many, many traits, which I suppose many would call the DiStefano level. I'm sure you could push back on the taxonomy, but it's just something I've used to help try to process the player.
No, makes perfect sense. Like the conflation some have of Scholes where his 3 distinct roles are amalgamated whilst the reality is it was effectively three different careers.
I kind of alluded to what you are saying with regard to him blurring the lines or becoming a new archetype because he can follow a team schematic and be studious to the role deployed in or break free of it with his own reading of the game and speed of thought and exploit opportunities others don’t even see emerging until he’s already gone and done it. His ghosting highlights this with the way he pops up completely unseen and unmarked for a clean, uncontested shot. It’s the hallmark of a very special player.
I think the adventure is in watching players like this organically develop; it’s extremely rare for one player to cover so much of the pitch and be effective wherever they go. There’s a handful this millennium and it is a freakish trait. In relation to your last paragraph, I think the managers he gets to work with are so important in terms of his growth. Ancelotti has been a blessing because he’s taken all the limiters off and is actively encouraging the kid to play and express himself. Referring to the team schematic; as long as Bellingham hits the rudimentary quotas, Ancelotti isn’t going to restrict him in any way. On the other hand a Southgate could be potentially ruinous at NT level. Great players are mostly backed by great managers who buy into their optimal state and do everything in their power to drag every ounce of the potential out; if Ancelotti goes and Real get a coach who curtails Jude’s current effervescence, you’ll probably see a lesser player. Using Scholes again, the contrast between club and country at any given time is an example of what I mean. Alongside Jude’s apparent all-time trajectory, he needs luck with coaches. Ideally, someone comes along after Ancelotti and builds even further on those foundations; challenges him; makes him expand his horizons and ambitions; gives him the “impossible” to strive for not only keeps him grounded, but makes him aware of the greats he should be aiming to stand alongside. That’s assuming he doesn’t already have the impossible in mind. Your a, b, c is probably going to be determined by coaches, too. That c route being the anime one that nobody believes is possible, but what a fun ride it will be if this is his level, he has no injuries *and* he is left in the hands of elite coaches who coax every sinew out of him. I am sure we all want to see what happens in that instance.
It’s also funny to me because Di Stefano has the Voldemort quality of he who should not be named because whoever it is being compared to him is being set up to fail, so at every turn that’ll be the player he’ll get the most pushback being compared to. Understandably so
Fabregas was super hyped when he was at Arsenal and was very pissed when Barcelona got him.
Fabregas is the best young teenage midfielder I’ve ever seen, in a far different way to Bellingham, how he could playmaker control a game through passing and not be overawed by the physical nature of the league despite being pint sized at the time was incredible.
That Spanish midfield was an all timer. This England central midfield is simply good. Bellingham (as with Fabregas) can play 6,8&10. Bellingham has zero comparable competition for England at 8 & 10. He’s a better 6 than Rice too (for me)
Not trying to run down Jude. But Cesc at 16-20 was as good, or better than him. Both very special players.
I agree. Fabregas was the best midfielder I've ever seen in the PL. Obviously a biased view but something about a young Cesc was amazing to watch. Ozil etc were not at his level despite what stats tell you. He was a jack of all trades.
People trying to compare Wirtz and Musiala are missing the point. Forget the stats, Bellingham went into the meat grinder of the Bernabéu at age 20 and is arguably their player of the season. That’s not normal and not something the aforementioned two could have accomplished.
https://www.skysports.com/football/...shoulder-problem-says-manager-carlo-ancelotti
Those damn injuries. I gotta say, it's my only worry about him, he has a ridiculous looking body for a footballer, should be playing rugby. I see hints of Wayne Rooney and a peak that comes a lot quicker than most.
Those damn injuries. I gotta say, it's my only worry about him, he has a ridiculous looking body for a footballer, should be playing rugby. I see hints of Wayne Rooney and a peak that comes a lot quicker than most.
Such a tease. I was at least expecting shirtless pics from the article.
Starter today vs Betis.
Another goal for Zinedine Bellingham... Great run, control and finish.
Another one. He's great at headers.
17 goals without penalties in December.