Jude Bellingham | Real Madrid player

[Ocelot]

Online fans really don't like players having quiet games do they

It's exhausting, especially when referencing Zidane who went missing for an entire season at Juventus at *checks notes* the age of 26. Zidane was class but people often remember the big moments and forget he could frequently go on streaks where he wouldn't influence the game much at all.

It's obvious Bellingham is gassed at the end of a long season. He also isn't going to be the finished article at 20 years of age.

 

[Kwabs]

Yeah pretty much a “typical” football phenomena. Guy goes on a hot streak, he’s the second coming. He blows cold and all of a sudden he’s not that great to begin with. Truth is somewhere in the middle there.

Anyway, I was thinking about it earlier and Ronaldo and Messi really ruined it (Balon d’Or) for all of us. We won’t see those type of players and numbers for a while. I wonder who’s the front runner for the award at this point…

Mbappe (if PSG can get to/win the final), Vini (if madrid wins the final), Kane (if they win it) & Jude are the 4 I can think of. Maybe the Euros will have a big say in the final ranking.

You're absolutely right, we have to choose a BDO winner from amongst the mere mortals now, and consequently, all the candidates seem a bit underwhelming. As you say, we will have to wait until the CL and Euros are done to get a better picture. The bookies have Mbappe, Bellingham, Kane and Foden as the top four (in that order) and the winner will probably come from that group (more the first 3 than Foden, I'd guess), depending on what happens over the next 2 and a half months or so.

 

[Ish]

You're absolutely right, we have to choose a BDO winner from amongst the mere mortals now, and consequently, all the candidates seem a bit underwhelming. As you say, we will have to wait until the CL and Euros are done to get a better picture. The bookies have Mbappe, Bellingham, Kane and Foden as the top four (in that order) and the winner will probably come from that group (more the first 3 than Foden, I'd guess), depending on what happens over the next 2 and a half months or so.

Interesting that 3/4 Englishmen are down as favorites. But yeah, Bellingham/Kane would seem ahead of Foden. Personally I can see Mbappe winning it

 

[adkb]

I haven't watched a single game where he has played, but after reading this thread I get a typical united player vibes where he is promising before joining United but goes dud the moment he pulls the shirt on.

 

[Taribo's Gap]

I haven't watched a single game where he has played, but after reading this thread I get a typical united player vibes where he is promising before joining United but goes dud the moment he pulls the shirt on.

He's clearly not a dud. I would say the opposite happened; the moment he put the shirt on he became a demon and way playing out of his mind. His form has dropped off, he's had injuries and his role in the team has been influx, so his second half of the season hasn't been quite as good.

I think it will be hard for a player like Jude to be a dud because he can do so many different things to at least a decently high level. I don't think he's been clearly better than Vini this season though, which some are suggesting.

 

[Zehner]

I know I'm a fan boy but Wirtz has been every bit as good as the Balon D'Or candidates discussed in this thread and could still win a treble, albeit the "small" one, has set up a new record of consecutively unbeaten matches and could finish with an unprecedented unbeaten season across three competitions. If the UCL is won by a German team that came in second (or even fifth ) domestically and Germany maybe even has a decent EC, I really hope he gets the recognition he deserves in the vote.

 

[Kwabs]

Interesting that 3/4 Englishmen are down as favorites. But yeah, Bellingham/Kane would seem ahead of Foden. Personally I can see Mbappe winning it

Mbappe would be my bet as well. I think PSG have a great chance in the CL and Enrique is a canny manager. Obviously France will be one of the strongest teams at the Euros and so Mbappe has the platform to perform there as well.

 

[SilentWitness]

I know I'm a fan boy but Wirtz has been every bit as good as the Balon D'Or candidates discussed in this thread and could still win a treble, albeit the "small" one, has set up a new record of consecutively unbeaten matches and could finish with an unprecedented unbeaten season across three competitions. If the UCL is won by a German team that came in second (or even fifth ) domestically and Germany maybe even has a decent EC, I really hope he gets the recognition he deserves in the vote.

Unfortunately doesn't play for a flashy enough club or on a superstar level ala Mbappe but if Germany have a strong Euros and he plays a big part then he has an excellent chance. I think it's going to rest on the Euros and CL ultimately. Bellingham, Mbappe, Kane and to a lesser extent Wirtz are all competing for a big trophy or achievement and are all at sides that can feasibly win the Euros.

 

[BayernFan87]

I know I'm a fan boy but Wirtz has been every bit as good as the Balon D'Or candidates discussed in this thread and could still win a treble, albeit the "small" one, has set up a new record of consecutively unbeaten matches and could finish with an unprecedented unbeaten season across three competitions. If the UCL is won by a German team that came in second (or even fifth ) domestically and Germany maybe even has a decent EC, I really hope he gets the recognition he deserves in the vote.

Seems like your first league title does not only go to your club bosses head

Wirtz is great and I love him but he will at best be in the top 10.
Look at Napoli last year or Ajax a few years ago. They were just as good in the national league, had a great CL run and a few absolutely outstanding players (Osimhen or Kvara for example), yet these players had no chance to win the Balon d'Or.

Wirtz needs to move to a big club before he has the chance to win it.

 

[Fallon d'Floor]

He did this against City that led to a goal only a few games ago:

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

There are levels.

 

[Mike Smalling]

Not really the type of player for these types of games, where Madrid are pushed back and don't have a lot of possession. Same thing happened in the games vs. Man City. He will hold up the ball at bit, but doesn't get involved nearly enough.

 

[pierrethesnack]

I haven't watched a single game where he has played, but after reading this thread I get a typical united player vibes where he is promising before joining United but goes dud the moment he pulls the shirt on.

I didn't seen him in action until a few weeks ago, a game here and there. Even when quiet/mediocre it's clear as day he is an absolutely fantastic player.
I suppose people who watched him for longer periods knew that ages ago, but yeah, they're definitely not wrong.

 

[Ish]

Mbappe would be my bet as well. I think PSG have a great chance in the CL and Enrique is a canny manager. Obviously France will be one of the strongest teams at the Euros and so Mbappe has the platform to perform there as well.

Yeah, agreed about Mbappe & France.

 

[Zehner]

Seems like your first league title does not only go to your club bosses head

Wirtz is great and I love him but he will at best be in the top 10.
Look at Napoli last year or Ajax a few years ago. They were just as good in the national league, had a great CL run and a few absolutely outstanding players (Osimhen or Kvara for example), yet these players had no chance to win the Balon d'Or.

Wirtz needs to move to a big club before he has the chance to win it.

Can you blame me?

It is definitely an obstacle that he doesn't play for a club with a huge lobby but I don't think it is impossible. Let's say Dortmund wins the CL, Germany wins the EC, Leverkusen wins the small treble and remains undefeated. I think there would be no way around him. Now the question is how much many achievements you can take away from this ideal scenario before it flips.

 

[Marvin look out]

I believe Bellingham is gassed as well. So are Camavinga and Valverde. Basically the three players who cover the most ground during games and play every minute of every game, including the 120 minutes marathon against City. All that running takes its toll at some point.

He hasn't shined in the knockout games so far, but Real have been very poor in all the games They have been outplayed in every game, even against Leipzig. He's spending a lot more time running around defending than with the ball at his feet, and when he does get the ball, he's very often in his own half with his back against the play and with limited passing options. It's hard to have a good game under these circumstances bar a moment of individual brilliance.

You can't really judge a player off a few CL games, especially when his team comes in with such minimalist and negative gameplans.

I've watched a lot of La Liga games this season. Bellingham has been Madrid's best player. Rudiger isn’t too far behind and Vinicius is coming on strong.

 

[BayernFan87]

Can you blame me?

It is definitely an obstacle that he doesn't play for a club with a huge lobby but I don't think it is impossible. Let's say Dortmund wins the CL, Germany wins the EC, Leverkusen wins the small treble and remains undefeated. I think there would be no way around him. Now the question is how much many achievements you can take away from this ideal scenario before it flips.

Even if that scenario happens it would probably also need France and England to go out very early in the EC.

 

[NoPace]

I believe Bellingham is gassed as well. So are Camavinga and Valverde. Basically the three players who cover the most ground during games and play every minute of every game, including the 120 minutes marathon against City. All that running takes its toll at some point.

You might have a point. Rare to see a big game where Valverde's running doesn't stand out and it definitely didn't against Bayern.

 

[Marvin look out]

You might have a point. Rare to see a big game where Valverde's running doesn't stand out and it definitely didn't against Bayern.

That's what I saw too. And Camavinga didn't even start even though he's a starter for Ancelotti.

 

[giorno]

That's what I saw too. And Camavinga didn't even start even though he's a starter for Ancelotti.

Not really. Kroos and Valverde are the starters, the last spot depends on form. Right now Tchouameni is in great form so he plays

 

[devaneios]

Is his season that different to Paulinho's 17-18 at Barcelona? Both scoring important goals, despite the lack of creativity, in the first half of the season and not delivering much more than hard work in the second half.

He is obviously much more talented, but it's funny to remember that some were calling him the new Di Stéfano because he was scoring goals.

 

[Fortitude]

Is his season that different to Paulinho's 17-18 at Barcelona? Both scoring important goals, despite the lack of creativity, at the first half of the season and not delivering much more than hard work at the second half.

He obviously is much more talented, but it's funny to remember that some were calling him the new Di Stéfano because he was scoring goals.

I don't think you're dense, so I am led to believe you're posting in bad faith because nobody is compared to Di Stefano for scoring goals over where they are positioned and what they are doing during plays.

If a player is capable of running through the spine of a side from extremely deep in midfield all the way through to finishing in the final third, there will automatically be few to compare them to, further, if the regularity with which this is happening is extremely high, fewer players still can be brought into the conversation. It's an extremely irregular occurrence, but... you already know that, which is why you're posting in bad faith.

 

[devaneios]

If a player is capable of running through the spine of a side from extremely deep in midfield all the way through to finishing in the final third, there will automatically be few to compare them to, further, if the regularity with which this is happening is extremely high, fewer players still can be brought into the conversation.

Paulinho is one of them, isn't he? He was just like that in his first half season for Barça. I think it's a closer comparison than the one with Di Stéfano, who had Messi's level of talent.

 

[Needham]

Getting a mite hubristic. Liked him calling the domestic abuser but definitely needs to show more respect to his national captain. If you're reading this (Jude), watch your fecking step....
That's all am sayin

 

[Alpha 1]

He was outstanding in two Clasicos against Barca for example, Sid Lowe who has been watching Bellingham all year said he had a "season that could hardly have gone better".

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...debut-la-liga-season-clasico-winner-barcelona

" it is genuinely hard to think of many men who have had a debut season at Madrid quite like this, a player who has dominated a campaign or had an impact like it. “Bellingham is the Player of the League,” AS wrote on Monday morning and, even with the recent mini-dip, it is not easy to argue."

I haven't seen many of his games but I trust Sid Lowe and AS better than my assessment of watching a few CL games. Sometimes it's best to just listen to the experts rather than judging yourself off 4-5 games.

He wasn't good in the recent classico at all. A Haaland like performance except as a midfielder. I'd definitely expect more from him.

He did this against City that led to a goal only a few games ago

Pretty much his only good moment in that game.

I think Bellingham is a quality player, but the Zidane comparisons were always weird. Very different players.

Musiala plays more like Zidane than Bellingham does. He was outdstanding last night. The quick feet and driving runs. Won the penalty.

Musiala doesn't play like Zidane. Very different players but he is better than Bellingham. All Musiala needs is to better his output, the potential is amazing.

Even if that scenario happens it would probably also need France and England to go out very early in the EC.

Only the player from the winning team gets the ballond'or . Even if England reach the semi or final without winning it, It is unlikely that Kane, Foden or Bellingham wins it without winning and playing a big role in the UCL. Ditto Mbappe for France.

Mbappe's cameo in the WC was his last truly good performance in a big game.

 

[adexkola]

You can't really judge a player off a few CL games

That is so true

*Looks at camera*

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

Is his season that different to Paulinho's 17-18 at Barcelona? Both scoring important goals, despite the lack of creativity, in the first half of the season and not delivering much more than hard work in the second half.

He is obviously much more talented, but it's funny to remember that some were calling him the new Di Stéfano because he was scoring goals.

What a stupid take, fecking hell. AS called him the best player in La Liga at 20 years old.

 

[Kwabs]

Paulinho is one of them, isn't he? He was just like that in his first half season for Barça. I think it's a closer comparison than the one with Di Stéfano, who had Messi's level of talent.

DiStefano did not have Messi's level of talent. I think the comparison is pretty apt, actually, just in terms of style of play.

Obviously JB has achieved nothing in comparison thus far and has to go a long long way to be considered anywhere near that bracket, but DiStefano was not a wizard with the ball in the same way that Messi, Maradona and Pele were.

He was a player with very good technique who was famed for his incredible stamina and his ability to play all over the pitch, in defence, midfield and attack, scoring prolifically. He was also known for his imperious demeanour (even arrogance) and leadership.

 

[devaneios]

DiStefano did not have Messi's level of talent. I think the comparison is pretty apt, actually, just in terms of style of play.

Obviously JB has achieved nothing in comparison thus far and has to go a long long way to be considered anywhere near that bracket, but DiStefano was not a wizard with the ball in the same way that Messi, Maradona and Pele were.

He was a player with very good technique who was famed for his incredible stamina and his ability to play all over the pitch, in defence, midfield and attack, scoring prolifically. He was also known for his imperious demeanour (even arrogance) and leadership.

Is being a wizard with the ball equal to having great ball carrying dribbling? Because that's the only thing he lacked compared to the others(in fact, his technique was very similar to Pelé's; even better, as his passing skills were superior). He didn't have the same agility and explosiveness of the other three, that's why he didn't produce as many solo runs, but his touch and ball manipulation in tight spaces were not worse. Also, his off ball movement, link up skills, creativity and general understanding of the game were arguably the best among the four. If he had had a more prominent carrer in International football(not his fault), he would be considered as good as Pelé or even better.

By the way, I wasn't being too serious in that post. I understand the intention, but it's very superlative, to say the least. He's closer to someone like Gullit.

 

[Kwabs]

Is being a wizard with the ball equal to having great ball carrying dribbling? Because that's the only thing he lacked compared to the others(in fact, his technique was very similar to Pelé's; even better, as his passing skills were superior). He didn't have the same agility and explosiveness of the other three, that's why he didn't produce as many solo runs, but his touch and ball manipulation in tight spaces were not worse. Also, his off ball movement, link up skills, creativity and general understanding of the game were arguably the best among the four. If he had had a more prominent carrer in International football(not his fault), he would be considered as good as Pelé or even better.

By the way, I wasn't being too serious in that post. I understand the intention, but it's very superlative, to say the least. He's closer to someone like Gullit.

His technique was not as good or better than Pele's. Not was he a better passer.

By 'wizardry' I do mean dribbling but also flair.

 

[carvajal]

You cannot compare the technique of a guy born in 1926 with modern footballers. He will always lose, football was different.
If they had looked for the most talented guy, with better dribbling and shooting, they wouldn't have brought Bellingham.
However, there must be something to make him an absolute priority after years without spending.
He has appeared in Madrid and at 20 years old he has 20 goals and 10 assists and has scored in both clásicos. He is tired because he has not stopped running since August and has a shoulder injury without surgery.
I don't even know where Zizou was at 20 years old. It's not Zidane, because Zidane was a dancer but he also had his dark side, disappearing completely and ending up deranged on the verge of red. 80% of the time ambition and character count as much as other factors. Vini, now a candidate for the Ballon d'Or, fell and tripped over the ball, he was the laughingstock of the press, but the bastard is a sponge, only thinking about improving and capable of overcoming all obstacles, and Bellingham evokes that. He may have played a disastrous game but he gives the assurance that he himself is not going to allow that situation to continue.

 

[giorno]

Vinicius the triathlete: dribbles, assists and scores

 

[SATA]

I know he’s only 20 but if he leads and wins the CL with Madrid and the Euros with England, he’s probably going to win the Balon dor next year? I wish we have him as a United player

 

[DannyCAFC]

Is his season that different to Paulinho's 17-18 at Barcelona? Both scoring important goals, despite the lack of creativity, in the first half of the season and not delivering much more than hard work in the second half.

He is obviously much more talented, but it's funny to remember that some were calling him the new Di Stéfano because he was scoring goals.

 

[NewGlory]

Jude just won his first major league title in La Liga, at 20 years old! And could still win UCL, even likely to.

... Harry Kane is still trophyless, in a much easier Bundesliga

 

[MassVolto]

Jude just won his first major league title in La Liga, at 20 years old! And could still win UCL, even likely to.

... Harry Kane is still trophyless, in a much easier Bundesliga

This season..
Bundes > La Liga
It's not even close.

 

[stefan92]

Jude just won his first major league title in La Liga, at 20 years old! And could still win UCL, even likely to.

... Harry Kane is still trophyless, in a much easier Bundesliga

He already won the DFB Pokal with Dortmund 2021. He is ahead of Kane in terms of trophies since he is 18.

 

[Bwuk]

Could see him winning Balon d’Or. Not many obvious stand outs.

I fancy Madrid to win the CL, and I wouldn’t be surprised if England won the euros.

 

[JogaBonitoRooney]

Harry Kane is still trophyless, in a much easier Bundesliga

Leverkusen are harder opponents this season than current Barca or Atletico.

 

[holdsteady]

I know he’s only 20 but if he leads and wins the CL with Madrid and the Euros with England, he’s probably going to win the Balon dor next year? I wish we have him as a United player

INEOS should splash the cash for him in the next few seasons. Genuinely he should be the top priority to pair with Mainoo.

 

[AfonsoAlves]

He wasn't good in the recent classico at all. A Haaland like performance except as a midfielder. I'd definitely expect more from him.

Pretty much his only good moment in that game.

Musiala doesn't play like Zidane. Very different players but he is better than Bellingham. All Musiala needs is to better his output, the potential is amazing.

Only the player from the winning team gets the ballond'or . Even if England reach the semi or final without winning it, It is unlikely that Kane, Foden or Bellingham wins it without winning and playing a big role in the UCL. Ditto Mbappe for France.

Mbappe's cameo in the WC was his last truly good performance in a big game.

Well, isn't this a hot take: Musiala better than Bellingham?

At what?

Goals? Bellingham has way more (Not to mention Musiala has 50% of his goals being penalties, Bellingham has 1 penalty goal)
Assists? Bellingham has more
Pass completion %? Bellingham 5% higher. Bellingham has 2x the passing distance yards completed, 15% higher long passes success rate and is statistically more successful at all 3 passing ranges (and quantity wise)
Aerial duels won? Bellingham 5x higher in percentage, 3x in volume.
Tackling stats are basically identical: Bellingham tackles more in his own half whereas Musiala wins the ball higher up the pitch. Bellingham has more interceptions, clearances, blocks, all three by a clear margin.
Bellingham has 60% more touches than Musiala, and leads in every department. More touches in his own box, in opposition box, in final third, in midfield third, in own third, etc etc.
Dribbling wise, Musiala has a 5.5% higher 1 on 1 dribbling success rate than Bellingham, at 50.5 and 56% respectively. Musiala attempts more 1 on 1 dribbles than Bellingham.
Ball carrying wise, Bellingham blows Musiala out the water, way more ball carries, way more distance carried, way more success in carrying ( far less miscontrols and possession losses both in absolute terms and % wise) and more progressive ball carries in distance.
Bellingham has covered 29% more ground than Musiala.

All the while Bellingham plays in a stronger league.

So, what exactly is Musiala better than Bellingham at? You could argue, slightly better at 1 on 1 dribbling and... his dribbling style with very sharp agility is more aesthetic I guess?

I'm really struggling to see how anyone can make the argument that Musiala is better at this point.